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-   -   Continuation The Trump Presidency: Part 25 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346437)

tyr_13 16th October 2020 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13259748)
For those of you who complained about my highlighted shouting, it got the conversation started where my foot stamping did not. At least people are thinking about the issue instead of only ranting unsupported assertions in an echo chamber.

No it did not. People are largely repeating what they had already said in new and different ways for you to simply reject.

Beelzebuddy 16th October 2020 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyr_13 (Post 13259735)
The mechanism here is violating the law in a way that gets those votes thrown out, which they can then cite as evidence that the election was rigged against them and the law is applied 'unevenly', or the votes get allowed in spite of the election law violation, which they can cite as evidence the election was insecure.

Either way, they can claim the election was invalid. It really isn't different than any government function that the GOP claims can't work, when the major reason it isn't working is they're sabotaging it.

They can also use it as a Both Sides Are Bad argument if someone in a swing state invalidates a large number of Democratic ballots. The story would be "voter suppression allegations by both sides" and only below the fold will we see it described that the CA GOP was ordered to stop and warned repeatedly while the other guy just decided "screw this blue zip code in particular."

It's an unfortunate situation that what would be a ridiculous CT in other circumstances is worth considering here, because the only thing we know for sure about the intent of these illegal boxes is they're lying about whatever they say it is.

TragicMonkey 16th October 2020 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13259748)
For those of you who complained about my highlighted shouting, it got the conversation started where my foot stamping did not. At least people are thinking about the issue instead of only ranting unsupported assertions in an echo chamber.

Oh, good. So we can expect more of the same whenever you aren't getting the attention you demand?

bonzombiekitty 16th October 2020 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13259734)
The voter is supposed to know the person they are giving the ballot to. I don't believe any identifiers are required beyond that.

I went and looked it up. According to the California's Secretary of State's website:

Quote:

[...]authorizing someone to return the ballot on your behalf.
Anyone may return your ballot for you, as long as they do not get paid on a per ballot basis. In order for your ballot to be counted, you must fill out the authorization section found on the outside of your ballot envelope.
https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/vot...tion/vote-mail

That section includes the name of the person, their relationship to you, and their signature. So if they drop it off in these collection boxes, how can they fill out the authorization section if they don't know who is going to be turning them in?

Granted, there's nothing physically preventing whoever is turning them in from filling out that section. But that'd be straight up fraud.

Skeptic Ginger 16th October 2020 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyr_13 (Post 13259750)
In the exact way that has already been listed. By California law harvested ballots have to have the name of the person harvesting the ballot written on the ballot by the voter and certified by a witness. Those things can't happen with these boxes.

And the why is answered in the post you're quoting.

Where is that in the law? Joe M posted the law and I didn't see that in there. I could have missed it. Help me out.

Skeptic Ginger 16th October 2020 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty (Post 13259780)
I went and looked it up. According to the California's Secretary of State's website:

https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/vot...tion/vote-mail

That section includes the name of the person, their relationship to you, and their signature. So if they drop it off in these collection boxes, how can they fill out the authorization section if they don't know who is going to be turning them in?

Granted, there's nothing physically preventing whoever is turning them in from filling out that section. But that'd be straight up fraud.

The GOP or pastor or gun store owner could fill that out. Does it say the voter has to verify the person designated was designated by the voter?

From your link:
Quote:

authorizing someone to return the ballot on your behalf.
Anyone may return your ballot for you, as long as they do not get paid on a per ballot basis. In order for your ballot to be counted, you must fill out the authorization section found on the outside of your ballot envelope.

When your vote-by-mail ballot is received by your county elections official, your signature on the return envelope will be compared to the signature on your voter registration card to ensure they match. To preserve the secrecy of your ballot, the ballot will then be separated from the envelope, and then it will be tallied.
I need to see one of the envelopes. We have to sign the outside envelope of our ballots too.

Let me look for an image. OK I looked at the envelope, (not easy to link to the pdf file). It says: Name of person designated to return the ballot
Their signature
Their relationship to you (the voter).

Since the law says a group or organization may be designated, all the GOP needs to do is properly label the drop boxes. From there a group rep can sign the envelope.

Minoosh 16th October 2020 11:23 AM

Good thing this thread will probably get a new continuation because the past couple of pages are a little off-topic. There’s probably a better place for nuts & bolts of what state parties are doing.

So to return to a more specifically Trumpism topic: He has sowed such confusion about mail-in voting that I don’t quite trust putting my ballot in the post. I want Biden to have a good showing on Election Day itself. Middle ground is to drop it off at an official county collection center. Trump has primed me to believe there will be problems so he has kind of “won” already.

Per California, those private boxes COULD be “tossed” then “found” to suggest Trump votes are being tossed. Since the GOP doesn’t need Trump votes there. Down ticket races, I don’t have enough info to evaluate the possibility. But the point IMO is to foster a widespread notion that any offsite voting is tainted.

Skeptic Ginger 16th October 2020 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 13259770)
Oh, good. So we can expect more of the same whenever you aren't getting the attention you demand?

:rolleyes:

When skeptics in a skeptics forum repeatedly repeat false facts, then yeah, I might shout again.

Skeptic Ginger 16th October 2020 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyr_13 (Post 13259751)
No it did not. People are largely repeating what they had already said in new and different ways for you to simply reject.

No, people are discussing the issues around the ballot drop boxes instead of repeating their outrage that the GOP in CA is nefariously trying to dump Democratic ballots or set up a scenario to falsely declare voter fraud.

Skeptic Ginger 16th October 2020 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 13259815)
Good thing this thread will probably get a new continuation because the past couple of pages are a little off-topic. There’s probably a better place for nuts & bolts of what state parties are doing.

So to return to a more specifically Trumpism topic: He has sowed such confusion about mail-in voting that I don’t quite trust putting my ballot in the post. I want Biden to have a good showing on Election Day itself. Middle ground is to drop it off at an official county collection center. Trump has primed me to believe there will be problems so he has kind of “won” already.

Per California, those private boxes COULD be “tossed” then “found” to suggest Trump votes are being tossed. Since the GOP doesn’t need Trump votes there. Down ticket races, I don’t have enough info to evaluate the possibility. But the point IMO is to foster a widespread notion that any offsite voting is tainted.

Yeah, it should go in the 2020 election thread. Sorry, I was just following the flow.


Mod InfoThread continues here.
Posted By:zooterkin


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