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-   -   Continuation Trump’s Coup - Part 2 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348820)

carlosy 7th January 2021 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13351666)
Hell no. If he wants to flee the country, let him. Good riddence to Bad garbage.
Same attitude Lincoln had toward Jefferson Davis.

Iran and Irak already have a warrant for him.

dudalb 7th January 2021 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 13351672)
Because during that entire time Pence would be POTUS and Trump would have no authority whatsoever.

25th has been called the "Captain Queeg Amendment" becuase the POTUS is basically being relieved from duty for being incapable of doing his job, like Queeg in the "Caine Mutiny".

Skeptic Ginger 7th January 2021 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate (Post 13351615)
He is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He can get things done, especially if he has the support of Congress and he will have that support.

Not for long.

Upchurch 7th January 2021 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 13351628)
Is she still sulking about that yob's feet on her desk?

It's hard to keep up with all the threads, but in case it hasn't been mentioned, the last I heard that guy was in her office, but that wasn't her desk. I'd still be mad though.

acbytesla 7th January 2021 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadmaker (Post 13351664)
I just read the 25th amendment. It's not the right way to go. It still requires a 2/3 vote of not just the Senate, but also the House. Because of the timing, it might be that he could be removed temporarily, and then the clock runs out during the "temporary" portion, although I'm not sure how to interpret the amendment to be sure.

The bigger reason not to do it is that isn't what the amendment is for. It was for cases where the President isn't dead, but has a medical problem that prevents him from carrying out his duties. I think insanity might qualify and be applicable to this case, but that's a tough sell. If he emerges from the cocoon and appears sane, the 25th isn't going to fly.

If you are going to do the right thing, impeachment is it.

It doesn't say medical.

It says "that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President. shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

pgwenthold 7th January 2021 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadmaker (Post 13351664)
I just read the 25th amendment. It's not the right way to go. It still requires a 2/3 vote of not just the Senate, but also the House. Because of the timing, it might be that he could be removed temporarily, and then the clock runs out during the "temporary" portion, although I'm not sure how to interpret the amendment to be sure.

I have heard verification that he is still "suspended" (my word) after he objects for the 4 days that the VP has to respond. However, I don't know if that holds during the 3 weeks that Congress has to respond.

johnny karate 7th January 2021 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadmaker (Post 13351567)
I learned a very long time ago that forcing people to go on record is a very good strategy, if you expect to win. If not, people will line up against you. I never did it on a national stage, but just in small time politics at clubs and offices. If people don't want to go on record, they will resent being forced to go on record.

Well gosh, we certainly can’t risk resentment from Republicans! Why, I can’t even imagine what that would look like.

Perhaps instead, they should each be brought a hot cup of cocoa and given a foot massage.

pgwenthold 7th January 2021 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13351681)
25th has been called the "Captain Queeg Amendment" becuase the POTUS is basically being relieved from duty for being incapable of doing his job, like Queeg in the "Caine Mutiny".

And it says "incapable" of performing his duties, which does not require that he be unconscious.

In the West Wing (I know, fiction), Bartlett was removed from president by the 25th after his daughter was kidnapped, and they concluded that he could not do the job objectively. That was when John Goodman took over (there was no VP). Then again, Bartlett agreed to it.

But he wasn't unconscious. He was just incapable of doing the job.

JoeMorgue 7th January 2021 01:58 PM

Why is every time Trump and his supporters light another dumpster on fire and start throwing babies and the Constitution and America's reputation into we get told we can't react to it or "we'll just make it worse?"

Mader Levap 7th January 2021 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13351701)
Why is every time Trump and his supporters light another dumpster on fire and start throwing babies and the Constitution and America's reputation into we get told we can't react to it or "we'll just make it worse?"

Because letting them do whatever these degenerates please is what they want?

acbytesla 7th January 2021 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13351699)
And it says "incapable" of performing his duties, which does not require that he be unconscious.

In the West Wing (I know, fiction), Bartlett was removed from president by the 25th after his daughter was kidnapped, and they concluded that he could not do the job objectively. That was when John Goodman took over (there was no VP). Then again, Bartlett agreed to it.

But he wasn't unconscious. He was just incapable of doing the job.

Exactly, but in that situation, Bartlett himself declared he was unable to discharge his duties.

As for Trump, he has never been able to discharge his duties as President.

Elagabalus 7th January 2021 02:01 PM

Quote:

I literally hope that if half the people on this board are ever bitten by a King Cobra they die a slow and agonizing death because they came into the emergency screaming about being bitten by a poisonous snake and the ER team lets them die while arguing about poisonous vs venomous.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9#post13351099

Of course, the King Cobra being an elapid means it has only neurotoxic* venom so they could just put you on a ventilator. :boxedin:



*I'm simplifying here for joke purposes.

JoeMorgue 7th January 2021 02:01 PM

I guess the troll matra of "Any reaction to me means I win" being the Trump Supporter/Apologist main strategy shouldn't surprise me.

TragicMonkey 7th January 2021 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13351699)
And it says "incapable" of performing his duties, which does not require that he be unconscious.

In Trump's defense, he's actually more capable as a president when he is unconscious.

pgwenthold 7th January 2021 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 13351711)
In Trump's defense, he's actually more capable as a president when he is unconscious.

I saw a picture the other day of him, Pence and Mitch shopped into "Weekend at Bernies"

Distracted1 7th January 2021 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13351701)
Why is every time Trump and his supporters light another dumpster on fire and start throwing babies and the Constitution and America's reputation into we get told we can't react to it or "we'll just make it worse?"

I think it is reasonable to appreciate that "react to it" is a pretty broad mandate, no?
And that some of those potential reactions actually will make things worse.

dudalb 7th January 2021 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13351683)
Not for long.

Yeah we will soon have the man who told off the Joker in "The Dark Knight" back as head of Judiciry.
Always liked having a Batman fan in that position.

Darat 7th January 2021 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13351701)
Why is every time Trump and his supporters light another dumpster on fire and start throwing babies and the Constitution and America's reputation into we get told we can't react to it or "we'll just make it worse?"

It’s the same as the calls saying Trump shouldn’t be “gone after” once he leaves office because it “won’t bring the country together” or “it’s will be seen as vindictive”.

No it is called showing the country that everyone has to follow the laws and when you don’t there are consequences.

jimbob 7th January 2021 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13351718)
It’s the same as the calls saying Trump shouldn’t be “gone after” once he leaves office because it “won’t bring the country together” or “it’s will be seen as vindictive”.

No it is called showing the country that everyone has to follow the laws and when you don’t there are consequences.

exactly

JoeMorgue 7th January 2021 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elagabalus (Post 13351708)
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9#post13351099

Of course, the King Cobra being an elapid means it has only neurotoxic* venom so they could just put you on a ventilator. :boxedin:



*I'm simplifying here for joke purposes.

//Total Hijack//

I follow a YouTube channel of a guy who "reviews" exotic reptiles and explains why they, in most cases, do NOT make good pets.

His review of the King Cobra is hilarious for when, after explaining all the other many, many, many valid reasons a King Cobra would not make a good pet, he gets down to the cost breakdown of what it would take to properly house and care for it, including the several thousands dollars worth of anti-venom you need to keep on hand at all times.

"Yeah I said anti-venom. You're going to need to keep your own supply of Anti-Venom. Why am I telling you to keep your own anti-venom? Well do an experiment. Go down to your local hospital holding your arm and tell them that you've been bit by a King Cobra and you need some anti-venom and just watch the look on their face. They will look at you like 'What? How? How did you get bit by a King Cobra? You weren't bitten by a King Cobra you moron. You were bitten by some local snake.' and when you tell them 'Yeah I have a pet Cobra' they are going to go 'Oh... okay... well *Stammers* Well... we have morphine. I can give you that. We'll make some calls. So just sit tight.'

A King Cobra bite can kill you in under an hour. So yea anti-venom. It's not cheap. It's not easy to get. It doesn't last long so you'll have to replace it often. And you're going to need a lot of it because it can take up 20-30 doses of antivenom to counteract the bite of a large King Cobra."

Norman Alexander 7th January 2021 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13351666)
Hell no. If he wants to flee the country, let him. Good riddence to Bad garbage.
Same attitude Lincoln had toward Jefferson Davis.

Unlike for Davis, Trump can still be effective from Outer Mongolia via the internet. If not moreso - US laws will no longer apply so there would be no limits to what he could say or incite. He needs to be kept under control right now, and that means keeping him inside the USA.

Tents, inside, outside, pissing, etc.

Armitage72 7th January 2021 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13351721)
//Total Hijack//


I remember a news story many, many years ago about a man who was on the bus carrying a sack. As he got off the bus, he threw the sack over his shoulder, and then turned around, got back on the bus, and asked the driver to take him to the hospital because he had a cobra in the sack and it bit him when he slung it over his shoulder.

Tero 7th January 2021 02:32 PM

Way to go Putin! First he gets Trump elected, and Putin forgets to take over Ukraine in the 4 years Trump would do nothing. Then at the last minute Trump launches a missile or two.

This moment, if any, is the time for Putin to release Pee Pee Tapes. Trump would resign.

johnny karate 7th January 2021 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage72 (Post 13351749)
I remember a news story many, many years ago about a man who was on the bus carrying a sack. As he got off the bus, he threw the sack over his shoulder, and then turned around, got back on the bus, and asked the driver to take him to the hospital because he had a cobra in the sack and it bit him when he slung it over his shoulder.

This is why you don’t skimp on cobra sacks. It’s really worth the extra money to get a high quality one.

Norman Alexander 7th January 2021 02:37 PM

Re 25th versus impeachment: They are not mutually exclusive. Trump can be immediately deactivated using the 25th, while impeachment proceedings are launched and progressed.

And as has been discussed extensively for years in another thread, there is ample evidence that Trump has demonstrated he is not capable of discharging the powers and duties of his office. His prime loyally-sworn duty has been to protect the constitution of the USA, not violate it as he did yesterday. That alone is sufficient reason to cut him off at the knees immediately.

There is a third option: Trump resigns immediately, like Nixon. Won't happen - Trump is too insane to admit he needs to do this.

And a fourth option: Whisky and a Walther, and time alone.

Elagabalus 7th January 2021 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13351721)
//Total Hijack//

I follow a YouTube channel of a guy who "reviews" exotic reptiles and explains why they, in most cases, do NOT make good pets.

His review of the King Cobra is hilarious for when, after explaining all the other many, many, many valid reasons a King Cobra would not make a good pet, he gets down to the cost breakdown of what it would take to properly house and care for it, including the several thousands dollars worth of anti-venom you need to keep on hand at all times.

"Yeah I said anti-venom. You're going to need to keep your own supply of Anti-Venom. Why am I telling you to keep your own anti-venom? Well do an experiment. Go down to your local hospital holding your arm and tell them that you've been bit by a King Cobra and you need some anti-venom and just watch the look on their face. They will look at you like 'What? How? How did you get bit by a King Cobra? You weren't bitten by a King Cobra you moron. You were bitten by some local snake.' and when you tell them 'Yeah I have a pet Cobra' they are going to go 'Oh... okay... well *Stammers* Well... we have morphine. I can give you that. We'll make some calls. So just sit tight.'

A King Cobra bite can kill you in under an hour. So yea anti-venom. It's not cheap. It's not easy to get. It doesn't last long so you'll have to replace it often. And you're going to need a lot of it because it can take up 20-30 doses of antivenom to counteract the bite of a large King Cobra."

Heh! //More Total Hijack//

I remember watching a show back in the day about a South African park ranger getting bit on the upper thigh by a black mamba (another elapid!). He quickly tied a tourniquet around his leg and tried to walk back to his land rover. Fortunately, some tourists were driving by and he manage to flag them down and together they went to the local hospital which took about 30 min(?).

When he arrived at the hospital he told the Doctors what had happened and they asked (wait for it) "Are you sure you were bit by a black mamba?" To which he replied "yes, of course I'm sure! I'm the bloody park ranger!" Well, you should be dead by now!"

Anyway, they decided that it was better just to put him on a ventilator instead of giving him anti-venom (I can't remember why). So that meant that for about 24 hours he was basically paralyzed, had no feeling at all, and could only hear things going on around him (I'm not sure if he could even blink his eyes). A pretty horrific 24 hours when you think about it. Not to mention all the jokester Hospital staff coming in to your room, "Hey, Bill, check this out. I'm going to make him slap his own face! Why are you hitting yourself?"

Delphic Oracle 7th January 2021 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtywick (Post 13351516)
That the pentagon’s acting commander was talking with congress and not the commander in chief should tell us all we need to know about where they stand on Trump. He lost everyone yesterday imo

DEFSEC and Congressional leaders communicate all the time without impropriety.

Do you have evidence of any?

I also seriously doubt DEFSEC and POTUS never communicated at all.

This is right-wing hysteria.

Mayor of D.C. properly requested guard activation. DEFSEC has discretion to activate. The President could issue a directive to rescind that order, but he doesn't have to personally order the DEFSEC to do it.

Reformed Offlian 7th January 2021 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13351425)
It’s bad enough Twitter and Facebook has made journalists lazy, now the FBI only has to look on its timeline in FB!

FB is two thirds of the FBI.

johnny karate 7th January 2021 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13351197)

Ladies and gentlemen, I humbly submit the following for your viewing pleasure:

https://mobile.twitter.com/KevOnStag...32996848324608

Jack by the hedge 7th January 2021 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13351805)
Ladies and gentlemen, I humbly submit the following for your viewing pleasure:

https://mobile.twitter.com/KevOnStag...32996848324608

What glee that brings. Thanks.

jimbob 7th January 2021 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13351805)
Ladies and gentlemen, I humbly submit the following for your viewing pleasure:

https://mobile.twitter.com/KevOnStag...32996848324608

What Jack by the Hedge said

jimbob 7th January 2021 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge (Post 13351808)
What glee that brings. Thanks.

So not content with providing evidence for her own possible prosecution, Elizabeth has become a meme.

Paul2 7th January 2021 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13351718)
It’s the same as the calls saying Trump shouldn’t be “gone after” once he leaves office because it “won’t bring the country together” or “it’s will be seen as vindictive”.

No it is called showing the country that everyone has to follow the laws and when you don’t there are consequences.

I think "bringing the country together" is pretty much gone as an excuse that works.

ChristianProgressive 7th January 2021 03:32 PM

For what it's worth, foreign governments suspect it was a coup attempt with tacit support from several Federal agencies.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...2fLH_WEdmKuzgc

There was a video up on Occupy Democrats of Trump and his family watching the start of the riot/coup from a private "command center" they had set up in the WH, but it got pulled suddenly.

Meadmaker 7th January 2021 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13351694)
Well gosh, we certainly can’t risk resentment from Republicans! Why, I can’t even imagine what that would look like.

Perhaps instead, they should each be brought a hot cup of cocoa and given a foot massage.

The important thing is that they resent being forced to go on record, and they express themselves by voting against you, and you lose.

Basically, never force a vote on something unless you are confident you are going to win it. The people who are on the fence will vote against you if you push too soon.

Meadmaker 7th January 2021 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 13351689)
It doesn't say medical.

No, but what else would make someone incapable after they are elected?

I'm including mental health under "medical". I like the "Captain Queeg" analogy, but I would include Queeg's condition as a mental health issue.

I think Trump could be considered to have mental health issues even beyond the malignant narcissism that he has had since birth. I think since the election he has lapsed into a combination of delusion and depression that makes him unfit for office. Now, if someone can just sell that idea to his cabinet.

Meadmaker 7th January 2021 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13351692)
I have heard verification that he is still "suspended" (my word) after he objects for the 4 days that the VP has to respond. However, I don't know if that holds during the 3 weeks that Congress has to respond.

You would think that by the 1960s, when that amendment was ratified, they would have figured out how to write unambiguous laws.

xjx388 7th January 2021 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive (Post 13351841)
For what it's worth, foreign governments suspect it was a coup attempt with tacit support from several Federal agencies.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...2fLH_WEdmKuzgc

There was a video up on Occupy Democrats of Trump and his family watching the start of the riot/coup from a private "command center" they had set up in the WH, but it got pulled suddenly.

If it was an actual planned coup attempt it was not very well planned or coupy enough.

ChristianProgressive 7th January 2021 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13351864)
If it was an actual planned coup attempt it was not very well planned or coupy enough.

In other words, that uniquely Trumpian brand of Treason mixed with incompetence?

acbytesla 7th January 2021 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadmaker (Post 13351859)
No, but what else would make someone incapable after they are elected?

I'm including mental health under "medical". I like the "Captain Queeg" analogy, but I would include Queeg's condition as a mental health issue.

I think Trump could be considered to have mental health issues even beyond the malignant narcissism that he has had since birth. I think since the election he has lapsed into a combination of delusion and depression that makes him unfit for office. Now, if someone can just sell that idea to his cabinet.

I don't think it's going to happen. I mean it would require Republicans to have principles and courage. There might be a few out there, but there are very few.


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