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-   -   Continuation Trump’s Coup - Part 2 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348820)

Warp12 18th July 2021 10:42 AM

America elected Trump, in spite of Trump...and tried to do it twice...amazingly. Wake up, Democratic party.

Resume 18th July 2021 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541747)
America elected Trump, in spite of Trump...and tried to do it twice...amazingly. Wake up, Democratic party.

Actually, America voted against Trump twice, when you look at the popular vote. To be accurate, one might say that some Americans voted for Trump twice, but fewer than those that did not.*



*Unless you buy into the crazy rigged election nonsense.

Warp12 18th July 2021 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resume (Post 13541755)
Actually, America voted against Trump twice, when you look at the popular vote. To be accurate, one might say that some Americans voted for Trump twice, but fewer than those that did not.*



*Unless you buy into the crazy rigged election nonsense.

Uhh, I guess we need to talk about why the electoral college matters, and why so many voted for Trump? Nah.

Resume 18th July 2021 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541757)
Uhh, I guess we need to talk about why the electoral college matters, and why so many voted for Trump? Nah.

Uhh, you made an assertion that America voted for Trump; I countered that with facts. If you had typed Trump won the electoral college once, you'd have been more accurate, but as far as the U.S. voting public is concerned, he lost twice, by millions of votes. If you want to pretend you're version is correct, I won't stop you.

If you want to derail the thread with your version, I can't stop you.

Warp12 18th July 2021 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resume (Post 13541767)
Uhh, you made an assertion that America voted for Trump; I countered that with facts. If you had typed Trump won the electoral college once, you'd have been more accurate, but as far as the U.S. voting public is concerned, he lost twice, by millions of votes If you want to pretend you're version is correct, I won't stop you.

If you want to derail the thread with your version, I can't stop you.

Yawn. Avoid my point. That is what is to blame for a ridiculous Trump presidency, and 74 million votes in the second election, and what some laughingly call a "Coup".

It is like Democrats are determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Shalamar 18th July 2021 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541770)
Yawn. Avoid my point. That is what is to blame for a ridiculous Trump presidency, and 74 million votes in the second election, and what some laughingly call a "Coup".

You seem to be hoping that The Chosen One will be properly reinstated at President in August.

But the fact is, the majority of voters, in each election, voted for the other guy.

Resume 18th July 2021 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541770)
Yawn. Avoid my point.

Snicker. You didn't make one, you just imagined you did.
Quote:

That is what is to blame for a ridiculous Trump presidency, and 74 million votes in the second election
Which he lost by 74 electoral votes, and roughly 7 million popular votes. This is what happens in many elections. Have you noticed?
Quote:

and what some laughingly call a "Coup".
At least you're hovering somewhere near the topic.

Warp12 18th July 2021 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shalamar (Post 13541772)
You seem to be hoping that The Chosen One will be properly reinstated at President in August.

Garbage argument. Untrue.

Quote:

But the fact is, the majority of voters, in each election, voted for the other guy.
Did I say otherwise? No. But if you don't think 74M says there might be a problem with the Dem platform...wake up. We have an electoral college for a reason, I'm afraid. So, that is just an argument that holds no merit, popular vote, and is ready to embrace history repeating itself. Including a pretend "Coup".

Warp12 18th July 2021 11:32 AM

People are pointing at QAnon, and such things, and ignoring the obvious fact that the Democrats are failing with their policy. It isn't like this was a blowout win.

It is easier to point fingers than accept any accountability. If you want to avoid such peril in the future, including the "coup", look in the mirror. Don't blame the voters for the past two results, nor their outrage.

Skeptic Ginger 18th July 2021 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thermal (Post 13541744)
I don't think he needs a formal army per se. But credible force is an absolute necessity. He simply had none. His followers were too weak and uncommitted to do much of anything, in the big picture. A lot of shouting, but at throw down time, they simply didn't.

Jan 6 was the opportunity, like none we have ever seen before. Even the most tentative wannabe kinda-sorta fascist would have seized that moment. A bully would say " Oh **** I'm going to hide". Which did he do?

In each and every opportunity, he took the non-fascist and cowardly way out. He was talk and little else. My fear remains of an *actual* neo-fascist to step up, not the all bluster schoolyard bully who is too weak to throw down.

Comment from the news, sorry lost track of who said it, paraphrasing: Trump could not carry out a coup because he's not smart enough but mostly because he can't think ahead which a coup would require.

Shalamar 18th July 2021 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541779)
Garbage argument. Untrue.



Did I say otherwise? No. But if you don't think 74M says there might be a problem with the Dem platform...wake up. We have an electoral college for a reason, I'm afraid. So, that is just an argument that holds no merit, popular vote, and is ready to embrace history repeating itself. Including a pretend "Coup".

There's no real problems with the 'Dem Platform'. It just seems that Republicans have been fed lies about the Democratic party ("They're gonna take yer guns away!") and conservatives want an authoritarian one party conservative state.

Stacyhs 18th July 2021 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541784)
People are pointing at QAnon, and such things, and ignoring the obvious fact that the Democrats are failing with their policy. It isn't like this was a blowout win.

It is easier to point fingers than accept any accountability. If you want to avoid such peril in the future, including the "coup", look in the mirror. Don't blame the voters for the past two results, nor their outrage.

"It is easier to point fingers than accept any accountability," : which is exactly what you are doing. You're blaming Democrats for the idiocy of the people who voted for Trump. It can't be because these people are just right-wing and attracted to Trump's message of anti-immigration, anti-abortion, dog whistle racism and bigotry, or religious nuts who think Trump is God's Chosen One. Oh, no...it's because the Democrats are failing to embrace these people into their policy platform to become just as anti-whatever as they are.

And you were also wrong with you said "America elected Trump" for the reasons already stated. But you are right about one thing: we need to talk about the electoral college which enables someone to be elected against the votes of the majority of Americans. Americans didn't elect Trump. An anachronistic and unfair electoral college system did and it needs to go. No other democratic country in the world uses such a stupid system and no other official in the US is elected by anything other than popular vote.

CapelDodger 18th July 2021 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541779)
... [i]f you don't think 74M says there might be a problem with the Dem platform...wake up.

Given that the Republican Party ran without any platform at all, are you actually promoting "no platform" as a policy?

Warp12 18th July 2021 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapelDodger (Post 13541844)
Given that the Republican Party ran without any platform at all, are you actually promoting "no platform" as a policy?

Why would the Republicans need a platform? The Dems made one for them.

Literally, the Dem platform was so bad that Trump was nearly elected twice, and there was a supposed "Coup". But nope, must be the fault of those 74M voters.

Amazing.

eerok 18th July 2021 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13541804)
Comment from the news, sorry lost track of who said it, paraphrasing: Trump could not carry out a coup because he's not smart enough but mostly because he can't think ahead which a coup would require.

That was Bolton.

Watch: John Bolton says Trump is too dumb to pull off a coup [boingboing.net]

CapelDodger 18th July 2021 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541779)
We have an electoral college for a reason, I'm afraid.

Reasons which no longer pertain, in a world that no longer exists. You just can't get away with "one black person is worth 2/3 of a white person" in this PC-dominated society.

CapelDodger 18th July 2021 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541849)
Why would the Republicans need a platform? The Dems made one for them.

Republicans never made reference to the Democratic Party platform.

Belz... 18th July 2021 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapelDodger (Post 13541851)
Reasons which no longer pertain, in a world that no longer exists. You just can't get away with "one black person is worth 2/3 of a white person" in this PC-dominated society.

Correction: 3/5ths. And to add to the funny, it was the slave owners who wanted to count them as full people, but only when it benefited them politically.

Stacyhs 18th July 2021 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapelDodger (Post 13541854)
Republicans never made reference to the Democratic Party platform.

Well, there you're wrong. Dems are really just a bunch of socialistcommies in sheep's clothing coming to take yer guns, religion, and freedoms away, don't ya know!

CapelDodger 18th July 2021 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13541858)
Correction: 3/5ths. And to add to the funny, it was the slave owners who wanted to count them as full people, but only when it benefited them politically.

My bad.


The bald truth is that the economic proportion of the plantation states in the proposed union was not reflected in their white populations. Hence Northerners would run (and win) on a platform of "Free Beer" and Southerners would have to pay for it. Not unreasonable, really. Just consider how today's South makes out on Northern taxes.

dudalb 18th July 2021 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541849)
Why would the Republicans need a platform? The Dems made one for them.

Literally, the Dem platform was so bad that Trump was nearly elected twice, and there was a supposed "Coup". But nope, must be the fault of those 74M voters.

Amazing.


Not surprised you turn out to be a faithful follower of Dear Leader.

Warp12 18th July 2021 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13541891)
Not surprised you turn out to be a faithful follower of Dear Leader.

Where did you get that from? Trump is an idiot. And the weak Democratic platform got him elected...almost.twice.

Warp12 18th July 2021 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapelDodger (Post 13541854)
Republicans never made reference to the Democratic Party platform.

Why would they need to?

Skeptic Ginger 18th July 2021 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerok (Post 13541850)

Thanks, that's it. :)

mgidm86 18th July 2021 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shalamar (Post 13541828)
There's no real problems with the 'Dem Platform'. It just seems that Republicans have been fed lies about the Democratic party ("They're gonna take yer guns away!") and conservatives want an authoritarian one party conservative state.


This ^

Republicans don't want to hear the real message because they would find themselves in the same position I was in a few years ago....wondering why the hell I ever believed the Republicans.

It isn't about the platform or facts, it's about fear. That is all they have.

PhantomWolf 18th July 2021 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541784)
People are pointing at QAnon, and such things, and ignoring the obvious fact that the Democrats are failing with their policy. It isn't like this was a blowout win.

Except that they aren't failing with their policies. Even a majority of Republicans like the policies that the Democrats are trying to pass. The issue is not policy, but rather that the Republican party and its media branches have sent the last 50 years demonizing the Democrats to the point where 74 million Americans would rather vote for a man they know is terrible and likely to do nothing for them, over a party that wants to help them and does so. You want to see how well the Republican machine has their voters brainwashed, look up how much Republican voters loved the idea of the ACA, but hated Obamacare!

Heck, look at the current situation with Vaccines. Trump wants to take credit for them, but at the same time Republicans are being told by their media to not take them, and so they aren't. They are willing to risk death or a lifetime of illness rather than to give a Democratic President a win. That's crazy.

When you see them wearing T-Shirts with things like "Better Russian than Democrat" you know there is no hope of persuading them of anything else.

CORed 18th July 2021 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13541858)
Correction: 3/5ths. And to add to the funny, it was the slave owners who wanted to count them as full people, but only when it benefited them politically.

They wanted them counted as full people for the purpose of determinging the number of Represenattives per state. They had no intention of actually allowing them to vote.

Stacyhs 18th July 2021 05:53 PM

deleted.

gregthehammer 18th July 2021 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541903)
Where did you get that from? Trump is an idiot. And the weak Democratic platform got him elected...almost.twice.

What the hell is this "almost twice" crap? Trump was given the heave ho by the voters his second time out

Stacyhs 18th July 2021 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Where did you get that from? Trump is an idiot. And the weak Democratic platform got him elected...almost.twice.
Quote:

Originally Posted by gregthehammer (Post 13542106)
The **** is this almost twice ****** Trump was given the heave ho by the voters his second time out

He was outvoted by an even greater popular vote margin the second time. Enough to overcome the stupid electoral system that unfairly gives low-population, red states an advantage.

Quote:

Democrats are not fond of the Electoral College these days, for obvious reasons. Two Republicans, George W. Bush and Donald Trump, have won the presidency in the past 20 years, and both of them galumphed into the Oval Office after losing the popular vote. In this era of tight national races, the system has clearly given Republicans a built-in advantage that allows them to govern with a minority of the public’s support.

And now, a new working paper by researchers at the University of Texas at Austin has quantified just how big that edge might have been in recent decades.

In their baseline results, the authors find that during the past 30 years, a hypothetical Republican who earned 49 percent of the two-party popular vote—that is, the vote total won by Democrats and Republicans, excluding third parties—could expect to win the Electoral College about 27 percent of the time. A Democrat with that share of the vote would have just an 11 percent chance of winning. At 49.5 percent of the popular vote, a Republican would have enjoyed a 46 percent probability of walking away with the presidency, versus a 21 percent chance for a Democrat. In a photo finish where the two parties split the vote about 50-50, a Republican would have had a 65 percent chance of spending the next four years in office.
https://slate.com/business/2019/09/e...ics-paper.html

Ladewig 18th July 2021 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 (Post 13542043)
This ^

Republicans don't want to hear the real message because they would find themselves in the same position I was in a few years ago....wondering why the hell I ever believed the Republicans.

It isn't about the platform or facts, it's about fear. That is all they have.

It’s way worse than just fear.
The right wing has convinced half of America that an argument presented with volume is more valid than an argument presented with facts. In fact in many cases right-wingers now laugh at people who present facts and citations.


And the GOP created what can only be described as a cult - every US intelligence agency and law enforcement agent that studied the 2016 election concluded that Russia interfered. And every intelligence agency of our allies concluded the same thing. But President Chucklehead says there was no interference and all the Trumlikans nod in agreement. FFS, Trump even got caught saying, “ What you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening”!

varwoche 19th July 2021 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thermal (Post 13541721)
He didn't.


Not credibly. Talk is cheap.

He obviously tried. I wouldn't have to write that except you're not expressing yourself clearly.

It was credible enough that Chairman of the Joint Chiefs urgently planned how to circumvent.

Quote:

He doesn't have an army to unleash. Except maybe the US Army? In which case, he didn't.
While I realize that Jan 6 overshadowed June 1.... how soon they forget..

Quote:

Talk remains cheap. Fascists actually do it.
(1) There was a lot more than talk. You're foisting rank bs.
(2) Do you grant other isms a pass based on ineptitude?

Belz... 19th July 2021 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541903)
Where did you get that from? Trump is an idiot. And the weak Democratic platform got him elected...almost.twice.

Yeah it can't possibly be rigged election schemes.

Ladewig 19th July 2021 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13541849)
Why would the Republicans need a platform? The Dems made one for them.

Literally, the Dem platform was so bad that Trump was nearly elected twice, and there was a supposed "Coup". But nope, must be the fault of those 74M voters.

Amazing.

Really?

You think the Democratic platform in 2016 was a major reason that Trump was elected? Because I don’t see their platform being anything close to the burning hatred of HRC.
Also, didn’t DJT garner votes for a variety of reasons:

billionaires don’t need to raise funds for re-election campaigns,
an outsider is needed to shake things up,
a successful businessman can run the country without wasteful spending,
he really cares about the little guy,
he is way more Christian than HRC,
we need to send a ***** you message to DC,
he is really good at whistling,
unlike the Dems, DJT isn’t interested in sleeping with minors,
he hates the same people I hate.

Besides, how many moderates who lean right think the 2016 Democratic Platform consisted of
rounding up all the guns,
making people have abortions,
implementing the gay agenda,
installing death panels to pull medical funding of sick old people,
making sure that death taxes can be used to seize small farms that have been in the family for generations

varwoche 19th July 2021 07:03 AM

I forgot to mention ... the attempt to overthrow democracy is still in play.

JoeMorgue 19th July 2021 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varwoche (Post 13542551)
I forgot to mention ... the attempt to overthrow democracy is still in play.

Of course it is. Until actual reasonable punishment and consequences happen it will be.

A failed coup without consequences is just a training exercise.

ponderingturtle 19th July 2021 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13541188)
Which reinforces why I support Term limits for the US Congress. If you knew you would only be there for a limited number of years, and could not make a lifetime career of being in Congress. you might not put reelection above everything else.

No you put getting a cushy lobbying job ahead of everything else. That way we just give more power to lobbyists.

angrysoba 19th July 2021 07:20 AM

Has Glenn Greenwald gone so far left he ended up on the right?

Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but here he is expressing disbelief that some guy who merely "entered the Capitol wearing a Trump t-shirt, held a Trump flag, took a selfie with Q Shaman" could get a year and a half in jail.

Link

Hey numbskull! He was engaged in trespass and, oh...and an insurrection designed to prevent the peaceful transfer of democratically elected power. Do you think that maybe that has something to do with it, Glenn?

The Great Zaganza 19th July 2021 07:24 AM

Glenn has always been on Glenn's side.

PhantomWolf 19th July 2021 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13542561)
No you put getting a cushy lobbying job ahead of everything else. That way we just give more power to lobbyists.

Make lobbying transparent so that everyone can see exactly who is lobbying who, and how much they are doing it.


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