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-   -   Continuation Trumpís Coup - Part 2 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348820)

Darat 7th January 2021 08:32 AM

Trumpís Coup - Part 2
 
Mod InfoContinuation of thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=347882
Posted By:Darat


Quote:

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes (Post 13350579)
Congress was occupied, legal proceedings halted. No matter how long it lasted, that was an attempted coup, the actions those of terrorists, and the man responsible a White supremacist who repeatedly betrays his oaths of office. There's no sugar coating that, and the Paradise of Infinite Lollipops for White Boys is over. Laughably, pathetically over.

Uncle Sam has had yet another very public trouser drop thanks to White boys and their sadly deluded allies. Henceforth, zero grounds to claim adherence to Western values, or any sort of "leadership", let alone a moral voice or intellectual credibility. Trump and his base have ****-canned the USA for generations to come and greatly advanced the forces of totalitarianism around the planet.

In light of events, waving a Trump flag this point forward is an act of treason, an intentional declarative blessing of a violent coup against democracy. From now on, no quarter, no respite, no benefit of the doubt, only a hard press up against the wall.

Time to finally rewrite the DoI so that it does not take those lazy short-cuts in defining the first principles of democracy which, btw, do not start with "small government". Maybe then prairie dogs and swamp rats will get some learnin'.

Started already: https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...apitol-stormed

Quote:

...snip....
"The United States certainly cannot now impose electoral standards on other countries and claim to be the world's 'beacon of democracy'," the foreign affairs chief in the lower house, Leonid Slutsky, told Russian news agencies....snip...

JoeMorgue 7th January 2021 08:41 AM

This has been the Trump's apologist (including the ones who screech "Don't call me a Trump supporter! How dare you!" the loudest) game for a while.

"Trump's going to do this."
"Oh he's not going to do it. Stop being overdramatic and hyperbolic."
"Okay well... I mean he literally just did it."
"No he didn't really do it because (pointless semantic excuse) and me being super hyper-focused on your less than mathematically perfect language while ignoring what Trump is doing is both super important and has no ulterior motive."

jimbob 7th January 2021 08:59 AM

Meet Elizabeth:

https://twitter.com/holmescnn/status...273608194?s=20

(Video in Tweet)

jimbob 7th January 2021 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13350799)
Betting one of the first guys to be arrested for his role in the insurrection is that idiot who took the selfie of himself in Pelosi's office. He just saved teh FBI a lot of work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resume (Post 13350803)
I think Viking idiot is a frontrunner.

What about the guy who wore his work badge to it?
https://twitter.com/RebelArt5/status...56434799104001

JoeMorgue 7th January 2021 09:03 AM

These are not people who are afraid of reprisals.

AnonyMoose 7th January 2021 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13351205)
These are not people who are afraid of reprisals.

These are not people who know what the word "reprisal" means.

jimbob 7th January 2021 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13351205)
These are not people who are afraid of reprisals.

In Elizebeth's case, she seems affronted and utterly surprised that she was maced, so I think AnonyMoose is accurate.

Where bravado crosses with stupidity.

And with guns.

Darat 7th January 2021 09:25 AM

Well I think the coup is truly over, the big boys have stepped in and said ďenoughĒ...

Amazing all these brave people standing up to Trump, this really will hamper Trumpís last 13 days in office.

Horatius 7th January 2021 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myriad (Post 13351123)
I do appreciate the measured-ness of the single shot (or small number of shots, can't tell for sure) rather than the city cop style "everyone empties their magazines in the general direction." I don't think anyone trains to target the neck, though. In a chaotic scene with a difficult shooting angle past the door, the guard might have intended a warning shot, a center mass shot, or anything in between.



Well, she was climbing head-first through a relatively narrow window, and when she was shot, immediately fell back through the window, so her center of mass was clearly still behind the door, so her head/neck was probably the biggest target available. If she were to be shot anywhere, it would almost certainly have been in the head or neck, because there wasn't much else there.

Babbylonian 7th January 2021 09:29 AM

I love this handwringing over whether the mob could be effective. Is it really that hard to imagine what might have happened if some of the armed members of the mob had managed to get hold of people their God Emperor had told them were enemies? We know how lousy the security was on the perimeter of an entire branch of our government. It was obviously only luck that the internal security was good enough to get that branch of government to safety.

Had Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats been killed by the mob, I wonder if we'd have as much hair-splitting over what we're allowed to call this event...

Spektator 7th January 2021 09:33 AM

Of course, odds are probably high that there will be a blanket pardon coming down for anyone and everyone in the mob....

Paul2 7th January 2021 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13351220)
Well, she was climbing head-first through a relatively narrow window, and when she was shot, immediately fell back through the window, so her center of mass was clearly still behind the door, so her head/neck was probably the biggest target available. If she were to be shot anywhere, it would almost certainly have been in the head or neck, because there wasn't much else there.

I prefer rioters who *don't* get shot.

Paul2 7th January 2021 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babbylonian (Post 13351221)
I love this handwringing over whether the mob could be effective. Is it really that hard to imagine what might have happened if some of the armed members of the mob had managed to get hold of people their God Emperor had told them were enemies? We know how lousy the security was on the perimeter of an entire branch of our government. It was obviously only luck that the internal security was good enough to get that branch of government to safety.

Had Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats been killed by the mob, I wonder if we'd have as much hair-splitting over what we're allowed to call this event...

IIRC, there was a report saying that they were searching for Mike Pence.

Dave Rogers 7th January 2021 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babbylonian (Post 13351221)
Had Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats been killed by the mob, I wonder if we'd have as much hair-splitting over what we're allowed to call this event...

As long as there were enough surviving Democrats to constitute a majority in the House, then it wouldn't have changed who was in power so that wouldn't count as an attempted coup.

Dave

Nessie 7th January 2021 09:42 AM

A tweet by the UK politician Jeremy Hunt;

https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/stat...17883490668546

"America is the world's biggest, most important democracy, a shining light on the hill for freedom. Pres Trump told a crowd to march on Capitol Hill & turned on his VP for upholding the law. He shames American democracy tonight & causes its friends anguish but he is not America"

1 - India is the world's biggest democracy, not the USA. That matters not as size is not an indicator of success.

2 - in no measure on any index is the USA the worlds greatest democracy. It ranks below many countries when it comes to democratic functioning and freedoms.

3 - Trumps actions have seriously damaged the US worlds standing and countries considered a threat to world democracy and freedoms, primarily Russia and China must be laughing their heads off.

4 - Trump is still a large part of America, we cannot kid ourselves he is not. What Trump has fired up is far from over and the internal splits in the USA may never heal. Instead of this being the end, it is more likely a continuation of his influence over many Americans.

Meadmaker 7th January 2021 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2 (Post 13351234)
I prefer rioters who *don't* get shot.

I feel compelled by decency to pretend I did not laugh out loud when I read that.

Babbylonian 7th January 2021 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2 (Post 13351236)
IIRC, there was a report saying that they were searching for Mike Pence.

Sure, but do you think these nutbars wouldn't settle for taking any enemy politician they happened to come across? And let's not forget that among these people were Q believers who might see their violence as justified since the entire Democratic Party is complicit in the murder of untold numbers of children (and I'm not referring to abortion).

The bottom line? I wonder how many members of this joint session would have had to die before the word "coup" stopped being objectionable.

Horatius 7th January 2021 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers (Post 13351247)
As long as there were enough surviving Democrats to constitute a majority in the House, then it wouldn't have changed who was in power so that wouldn't count as an attempted coup.

Dave



There's the flaw in your plan.

Jack by the hedge 7th January 2021 09:58 AM

It's hard to keep up with all the false flags.

So far, it seems that rioters were secretly Antifa infiltrators making the noble patriots look bad (by doing exactly what they've been saying for weeks they were going to do) unless they got shot, in which case they're heroic martyrs.

But with Proud Boys saying they were going to turn up cosplaying as Antifa and Antifa saying they were going to do the same in reverse, I wonder how far this role-swapping goes. Maybe it's worse than you think. Is it possible that absolutely everyone else is a secret false flag agent for the opposite side? Did in fact Trump genuinely obtain a crushing landslide victory at the election except that his role-playing voters all went a bit too method and voted for Biden, and vice versa?

johnny karate 7th January 2021 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13351197)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13351202)
What about the guy who wore his work badge to it?
https://twitter.com/RebelArt5/status...56434799104001

Another right wing terrorist safe in his stupidity and privilege confessing to felonies on live television and who probably slept in his own bed last night:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ugarles/s...85940829556736

The Atheist 7th January 2021 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 13351251)
1 - India is the world's biggest democracy, not the USA. That matters not as size is not an indicator of success.

I'm not sure what your point is here, because India's leadership is as bad as America's. So is Brazil's, and Pakistan, Nigeria and Indonesia aren't exactly great role models.

The only inference I can take from that is that very large democracy doesn't serve the people.

China will be delighted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 13351251)
2 - in no measure on any index is the USA the worlds greatest democracy. It ranks below many countries when it comes to democratic functioning and freedoms.

Yeah, but they've got that whole "sole superpower" thing going for them.

I can see the logic in referring to it as the greatest, simply on its position as former leader of the free world. Will be again next month.

[quote=Nessie;13351251]3 - Trumps actions have seriously damaged the US worlds standing and countries considered a threat to world democracy and freedoms, primarily Russia and China must be laughing their heads off.]/QUOTE]

I hear you could hear Vlad's laughter from Ukraine - he'll be lapping it up.

As to the world standing, you've got the luxury of a very low base and now you have the wildly-popular Obama presidency Veep in charge, if you take a poll next month you'll find the damage has been completely reversed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 13351251)
4 - Trump is still a large part of America, we cannot kid ourselves he is not. What Trump has fired up is far from over and the internal splits in the USA may never heal. Instead of this being the end, it is more likely a continuation of his influence over many Americans.

Nah - you've already seen all the rats desert that ship.

What he's done is narrowed his support down to the small minority of people of human garbage. No sane Republican will support him now, and it's all gone to prove just how absurdly stupid Trump is.

Did he really think a bunch of rednecks could seize the government?

Why, yes he did, and in the process has destroyed any chance of re-election.

It's the best possible end to his presidency - alone, threatened with removal for being unfit for office, utterly broken.

gnome 7th January 2021 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13351169)
"No he didn't really do it because (pointless semantic excuse) and me being super hyper-focused on your less than mathematically perfect language while ignoring what Trump is doing is both super important and has no ulterior motive."

I must say, this is one place where being hyper-focused on less than mathematically perfect semantics likely has no ulterior motive.

It doesn't make it super important though.

Fast Eddie B 7th January 2021 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13351197)

If anyone is from Knoxville and knows Elizabeth...

1) Thereís a reward waiting for you, and,

2) That tweet will likely be Exhibit A in her prosecution.

Paul2 7th January 2021 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadmaker (Post 13351255)
I feel compelled by decency to pretend I did not laugh out loud when I read that.

I debated a bit before posting that, as it is not part of my normal style. So I went wild and crazy for one post - sue me! :D

Matthew Best 7th January 2021 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B (Post 13351311)
If anyone is from Knoxville and knows Elizabeth...

... tell her she's hilarious!

timhau 7th January 2021 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B (Post 13351311)
If anyone is from Knoxville and knows Elizabeth...

1) Thereís a reward waiting for you, and,

2) That tweet will likely be Exhibit A in her prosecution.

Wait a second. She's white, and a woman. Surely being maced while participating in a violent insurrection is punishment enough.

Myriad 7th January 2021 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13351280)
Another right wing terrorist safe in his stupidity and privilege confessing to felonies on live television and who probably slept in his own bed last night:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ugarles/s...85940829556736


"It was a joke to them until we got inside and then all of the sudden guns came out."

Funny how that works.

It's all good fun until you're guilty of felony murder.

jimbob 7th January 2021 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B (Post 13351311)
If anyone is from Knoxville and knows Elizabeth...

1) Thereís a reward waiting for you, and,

2) That tweet will likely be Exhibit A in her prosecution.

I think this might be even easier for a prosecution:


Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13351280)
Another right wing terrorist safe in his stupidity and privilege confessing to felonies on live television and who probably slept in his own bed last night:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ugarles/s...85940829556736


Jack by the hedge 7th January 2021 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13351212)
In Elizebeth's case, she seems affronted and utterly surprised that she was maced, so I think AnonyMoose is accurate.

Where bravado crosses with stupidity.

And with guns.

"It's a revolution" she says. In a wounded tone which implies the authorities who maced her fail to grasp this. I mean, you're not supposed to oppose a revolution, are you? The revolution* is the goodies.

*Oh but not, like, communist revolutionaries, or anything icky like that, obvs. They are the baddies. No, just nice revolutionaries. Regular, commonsense people who only want to drag the vice president out of the building and string him up from a lamp post.

Darat 7th January 2021 10:29 AM

Grandkid: Grandma I’ve got to do a report on the civil war of the 2020s, I know you helped defeat the first coup attempt, what did you do.

Grandma: Well I turned to your Grandpa and said enough was enough, I logged in and set Trump’s Facebook account to :”Banned”.

Darat 7th January 2021 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timhau (Post 13351315)
Wait a second. She's white, and a woman. Surely being maced while participating in a violent insurrection is punishment enough.

I am sure she has learned a lesson....

slyjoe 7th January 2021 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13351212)
In Elizebeth's case, she seems affronted and utterly surprised that she was maced, so I think AnonyMoose is accurate.

Where bravado crosses with stupidity.

And with guns.

And with cell phones.

Step 1: Get warrants for position data from major carriers.
Step 2: Identify cell phones in the capitol between time x and time y.
Step 3: Identify owners of cell phones from step 2.
Step 4: Arrest!

Garrison 7th January 2021 11:00 AM

So the officer who shot the insurrectionist dead has been suspended pending investigation, no word of course on his colleagues who practically gave the others a guided tour and posed for photographs. This is probably the one police shooting where being in fear of his life should be a totally acceptable defence and I look forward to this being dropped without charges in the same way other officers across the USA have been, unless of course it has to be an unarmed black person for the police officer to get a pass?

JoeMorgue 7th January 2021 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrison (Post 13351378)
So the officer who shot the insurrectionist dead has been suspended pending investigation, no word of course on his colleagues who practically gave the others a guided tour and posed for photographs. This is probably the one police shooting where being in fear of his life should be a totally acceptable defence and I look forward to this being dropped without charges in the same way other officers across the USA have been, unless of course it has to be an unarmed black person for the police officer to get a pass?

You have to understand that "Police" are not a singular entity in the US.

There's 18,000 different law enforcement agencies in the US, with varying levels of autonomy.

Speedskater 7th January 2021 11:04 AM

About how many people attended the rally?

dudalb 7th January 2021 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13351202)
What about the guy who wore his work badge to it?
https://twitter.com/RebelArt5/status...56434799104001

FBI is glad so many morons are making their job easy.

dudalb 7th January 2021 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13351381)
You have to understand that "Police" are not a singular entity in the US.

There's 18,000 different law enforcement agencies in the US, with varying levels of autonomy.

This what a great many people not US Citizens fail to understnad.
The American tradition has been that most law enforcement should be at the level of government closest to the people:Local Governments.

jimbob 7th January 2021 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyjoe (Post 13351336)
And with cell phones.

Step 1: Get warrants for position data from major carriers.
Step 2: Identify cell phones in the capitol between time x and time y.
Step 3: Identify owners of cell phones from step 2.
Step 4: Arrest!

Also check what was being livestreamed on facebook and by whom at that time

I am thinking about this nice character, who knows enough to hide his face, but does have a mobile presumably to film his antics

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErI1ne4X...jpg&name=small

crescent 7th January 2021 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedskater (Post 13351382)
About how many people attended the rally?

I have not seen any estimates more precise than "stadium-sized crowd". There were initially three different events scheduled at different places, so they were spread out a bit.

That about fit with what I saw on the various live feeds I was watching yesterday - dense crowds mulling around at barricades, but not more than 15-20 people thick from front to back, lots of open space behind all that. I would not be surprised to find out that less than 5000 were actually at the Capitol itself.

All of the law enforcement agencies in D.C. have many times handled much larger groups of belligerent people, they have the experience, the equipment, training, budget and manpower to handle this sort of thing.

The leadership failed to apply any of that.

Darat 7th January 2021 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13351410)
FBI is glad so many morons are making their job easy.

Itís bad enough Twitter and Facebook has made journalists lazy, now the FBI only has to look on its timeline in FB!

Resume 7th January 2021 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13351202)
What about the guy who wore his work badge to it?
https://twitter.com/RebelArt5/status...56434799104001

I laughed and laughed . . . right up to the point when I realized that most of these yucks are going to come out of this unscathed, including the big orange yuck who literally instigated it an hour or so earlier.

Vixen 7th January 2021 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13351197)

Elizabeth is the new Karen, right?

Mojo 7th January 2021 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge (Post 13351276)
It's hard to keep up with all the false flags.

So far, it seems that rioters were secretly Antifa infiltrators making the noble patriots look bad (by doing exactly what they've been saying for weeks they were going to do) unless they got shot, in which case they're heroic martyrs.

But with Proud Boys saying they were going to turn up cosplaying as Antifa and Antifa saying they were going to do the same in reverse, I wonder how far this role-swapping goes. Maybe it's worse than you think. Is it possible that absolutely everyone else is a secret false flag agent for the opposite side? Did in fact Trump genuinely obtain a crushing landslide victory at the election except that his role-playing voters all went a bit too method and voted for Biden, and vice versa?


Occamís razor version: Trump is an Antifa infiltrator intent on making him look bad.

CapelDodger 7th January 2021 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13351169)
This has been the Trump's apologist (including the ones who screech "Don't call me a Trump supporter! How dare you!" the loudest) game for a while.

"Trump's going to do this."
"Oh he's not going to do it. Stop being overdramatic and hyperbolic."
"Okay well... I mean he literally just did it."
"No he didn't really do it because (pointless semantic excuse) and me being super hyper-focused on your less than mathematically perfect language while ignoring what Trump is doing is both super important and has no ulterior motive."

"Trump Derangement Syndrome", remember that?

Vixen 7th January 2021 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge (Post 13351322)
"It's a revolution" she says. In a wounded tone which implies the authorities who maced her fail to grasp this. I mean, you're not supposed to oppose a revolution, are you? The revolution* is the goodies.

*Oh but not, like, communist revolutionaries, or anything icky like that, obvs. They are the baddies. No, just nice revolutionaries. Regular, commonsense people who only want to drag the vice president out of the building and string him up from a lamp post.

The revolution will not be televised - Gil Scot Heron

'there will be no highlights at eleven o'clock'

'The revolution will be live.'

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Mojo 7th January 2021 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapelDodger (Post 13351451)
"Trump Derangement Syndrome", remember that?


Heís still got it, and heís infected his supporters.

DevilsAdvocate 7th January 2021 11:59 AM

Pelosi demands the President be immediately removed under the 25th Amendment or else the House will impeach.

SuburbanTurkey 7th January 2021 12:02 PM

Important thing to keep in mind.

Successful coups often follow failed coups.

yesterday's invasion of the capitol was nothing short of a major symbolic victory for the fascists in our country. While many are assuming there will be meaningful consequences for individuals involved, and the politicians that inspired them, that is a huge assumption. Don't assume that arrests will be coming unless there is a massive public push to do so. Congress has left for recess, so that clearly shows they have no plan to address the event promptly.

Like all the preceding events of fascist violence, the capitol invaders have demonstrated that police will not stop right wingers from engaging in extra-legal violence. They came very close to seizing actual elected members of our government.

This victory is a huge recruitment event for the fascists. More will come to the next riot.

Resume 7th January 2021 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate (Post 13351467)
Pelosi demands the President be immediately removed under the 25th Amendment or else the House will impeach.

Goddamned ************* right.

crescent 7th January 2021 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13351469)
.... While many are assuming there will be meaningful consequences for individuals involved, and the politicians that inspired them, that is a huge assumption.


My impression, based upon DOJ's attempts to prosecute participants in the Bunkerville and Malheur standoffs, is that the people who stormed the capitol are right to be confident that they'll get away with this.

The Department of Justice has repeatedly, sadly, demonstrated that it is incompetent at prosecuting these sorts of things.


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