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-   -   The post-Trump fascist creep catch-all thread (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350859)

Crossbow 22nd June 2021 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13515950)
I don't think Trump enjoyed being president, but it's pretty obvious he really liked campaigning and doing his little mini-Nuremburg rallies. I imagine he'd be pretty content if he could just endlessly tour and bask in the glow of his CHUD followers while hoovering up some cash.

I think that Trump becoming the President was the single biggest failure of his life.

Which is really saying something considering that Trump has failed at everything in his life.

At least during his pre-President years, Trump could say and do all sorts of nonsense and various white-collar illegalities, and largely get away with it due in part to his obscurity.

However, once he actually became President Trump, then he essentially invited all types of public scrutiny into every aspect of his life. Including, of course, his numerous criminal activities.

Furthermore, considering how much Trump loves criminal types, the one basic fact that all successful criminals know is that fame does not pay. Because getting fame always invites scrutiny, and in order for a criminal to be successful, then a criminal must avoid scrutiny.

Stacyhs 22nd June 2021 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbow (Post 13515973)
I think that Trump becoming the President was the single biggest failure of his life.

Which is really saying something considering that Trump has failed at everything in his life.

At least during his pre-President years, Trump could say and do all sorts of nonsense and various white-collar illegalities, and largely get away with it due in part to his obscurity.

However, once he actually became President Trump, then he essentially invited all types of public scrutiny into every aspect of his life. Including, of course, his numerous criminal activities.

Furthermore, considering how much Trump loves criminal types, the one basic fact that all successful criminals know is that fame does not pay. Because getting fame always invites scrutiny, and in order for a criminal to be successful, then a criminal must avoid scrutiny.

I would call his winning the 2016 election the biggest mistake rather than failure in his life for the very reasons you've stated. I've said for a long time that becoming president is going to come back and bite him in the ass.

While his presidency was certainly a huge ****show and a failure for the country, it was not for the Republicans. They gained much, including 3 SC Justices, more tax breaks for the wealthy, etc.

SuburbanTurkey 23rd June 2021 01:42 PM

Quote:

The Proud Boys are continuing to organize, rally, and engage in violence, in plain sight and often in uniform, despite the intense scrutiny on the far-right street-fighting gang for its alleged role orchestrating the deadly Capitol riot.

VICE News counted 20 public appearances in 13 different cities by the far-right street-fighting gang, including events that they helped organize, since January 6, with Oregon, California, and Florida emerging as hotspots for Proud Boy activity.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkb3...ng-the-capitol

The arrests of J6 was more a personal problem for the specific members of the group involved than it is for the group as a whole. This fascist street gang continues to have armed street rallies, often enjoying extreme leniency from local police while assaulting members of the public.

There's nothing to suggest this particular group, nor fascist groups generally, have been meaningfully undermined by the J6 arrests.

dudalb 23rd June 2021 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13516093)
I would call his winning the 2016 election the biggest mistake rather than failure in his life for the very reasons you've stated. I've said for a long time that becoming president is going to come back and bite him in the ass.

While his presidency was certainly a huge ****show and a failure for the country, it was not for the Republicans. They gained much, including 3 SC Justices, more tax breaks for the wealthy, etc.

Trump as President badly hurt the Trump Brand, which was in trouble anyway.
I keep on reading Trump did not really want to be President, and never thought the could win in the General election. He though by getting the GOP nomination and then losing but making a decent showing would give him new prestige and refurbish the brand,and he was shocked when he actually won.

Belz... 23rd June 2021 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13517563)
Trump as President badly hurt the Trump Brand, which was in trouble anyway.
I keep on reading Trump did not really want to be President, and never thought the could win in the General election. He though by getting the GOP nomination and then losing but making a decent showing would give him new prestige and refurbish the brand,and he was shocked when he actually won.

I think that's quite clear. In fact, even the presidential "win" was a loss for him, in that he didn't want it, it hurt his brand, exposed him to very dangerous litigation, and might end up destroying his father's entire legacy.

Stacyhs 23rd June 2021 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I think that Trump becoming the President was the single biggest failure of his life.
He may not have expected to win, but I can't call becoming the most powerful man in the world a "failure" for him. I don't believe for one second that Trump didn't really want to win. That goes against everything we know about him: the love of power, of being feared, of being in control, of being the center of attention, and feeling omnipotent. By pretending he didn't want to win, he gave himself a face saving way out if he lost. His initial plan of running and probably losing but still gaining financially due to the attention and publicity was likely why he ran in the first place, but winning was certainly not a failure. But running and winning was a huge mistake on his part if he ends up convicted of a crime or crimes and being incarcerated due to bringing the attention of the SDNY, the woman he raped, Stormy Daniels, etc onto himself.

Belz... 23rd June 2021 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13517670)
He may not have expected to win, but I can't call becoming the most powerful man in the world a "failure" for him. I don't believe for one second that Trump didn't really want to win. That goes against everything we know about him: the love of power, of being feared, of being in control, of being the center of attention, and feeling omnipotent. By pretending he didn't want to win, he gave himself a face saving way out if he lost.

Except that he hates having to actually do stuff, and his finances and dealings being under the microscope. Sure, afterwards he loved the attention, but otherwise I can believe he didn't want to actually win; the campaign was just another grift to make money.

Our report of this comes from private conversations.

Norman Alexander 23rd June 2021 05:43 PM

IMHO, T**** was manipulated into running by much smarter GOP operatives, because he is a massive ego attached to a crocodilian brain-stem.

They knew he had a certain cachet with a large group of Americans for whom a loud mouth and celebrity is equated with capability and skill. This was known from before: Reagan & Schwarzenegger both had some acting/TV cred. Disaster Don certainly had TV celebrity cred, even though it was totally scripted and he was promoted and edited to hell and back to make him look "good". Donny was a good sucker for them to play.

They knew if Donny lost the presidential race, he could be safely dropped again, allowing him to go back to his stupid TV career, and his tin-foil crappy business failures in NYC and whatever. There were plenty of other GOP candidates, so he was utterly expendable.

They also knew if he won that they could use him to achieve what they wanted: SC judges and many more besides, all sorts of stuff they had on their agenda that they wanted a cover for.

And sure enough, while Donny cheerfully crapped himself in the Oval Office to keep the cameras on him, it provided great cover for the GOP to push on with their agenda. Donny's legacy will be not only his insane antics but the radical right-wing push to secure permanent hegemony over US government.

Skeptic Ginger 23rd June 2021 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13517727)
IMHO, T**** was manipulated into running by much smarter GOP operatives, because he is a massive ego attached to a crocodilian brain-stem.....

I think these people fall into 2 groups. One group recognizes what a moron Dump is and they are mostly (though not always) successful manipulating him. And the other group kisses his ass because they fear his revenge and/or think by kissing Dump's ass they might be rewarded.

Maybe I should add a 3rd group. Those would be the morons like him who believe he's the 2nd coming and have joined the cult.

Stacyhs 23rd June 2021 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13517719)
Except that he hates having to actually do stuff, and his finances and dealings being under the microscope. Sure, afterwards he loved the attention, but otherwise I can believe he didn't want to actually win; the campaign was just another grift to make money.

Our report of this comes from private conversations.

Of course he had no intention to actually govern, but Trump doesn't think past actually 'winning' at whatever he attempts. It's the fight and then winning that motivates him because it reinforces his narcissism that he's the best at everything he ever does.

Michael Cohen wrote in his book that Trump had talked about running for the presidency for years as far back as 2011. Cohen testimony in front of the House Oversight and Reform Committee.

Quote:

"Mr. Trump would often say this campaign was going to be the greatest infomercial in political history," Cohen said in his opening remarks. "He never expected to win the primary. He never expected to win the general election. The campaign for him was always a marketing opportunity."
But that doesn't mean he didn't want to win. He just didn't think he would. Cohen also wrote:

Quote:

“Trump had cheated in the election, with Russian connivance, as you will discover in these pages, because doing anything — and I mean anything — to ‘win’ has always been his business model and way of life.”

Stacyhs 23rd June 2021 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13517745)
I think these people fall into 2 groups. One group recognizes what a moron Dump is and they are mostly (though not always) successful manipulating him. And the other group kisses his ass because they fear his revenge and/or think by kissing Dump's ass they might be rewarded.

Maybe I should add a 3rd group. Those would be the morons like him who believe he's the 2nd coming and have joined the cult.

:bigclap

It's always amazed me that anyone could be so blind as to have watched Trump for the last 6 years and not see him for what he is. I guess the saying is true: No one is so blind as he who will not see.

Norman Alexander 23rd June 2021 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13517727)
... a large group of Americans for whom a loud mouth and celebrity is equated with capability and skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13517745)
Maybe I should add a 3rd group. Those would be the morons like him who believe he's the 2nd coming and have joined the cult.

Exactly so. They are the ones I have already identified above. Cult of personality.

Armitage72 24th June 2021 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13517727)
They knew he had a certain cachet with a large group of Americans for whom a loud mouth and celebrity is equated with capability and skill. This was known from before: Reagan & Schwarzenegger both had some acting/TV cred.


Also Jesse Ventura. The first time his opponents invited him to participate in a debate, they expected him to make a fool of himself, forgetting that he had decades of experience working behind a microphone and in front of a camera and performing for the public.

ponderingturtle 24th June 2021 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13517563)
Trump as President badly hurt the Trump Brand, which was in trouble anyway.
I keep on reading Trump did not really want to be President, and never thought the could win in the General election. He though by getting the GOP nomination and then losing but making a decent showing would give him new prestige and refurbish the brand,and he was shocked when he actually won.

The problem is that this plan is not the plan of a malignant narcissist like trump. This simply goes against everything we know about Trump's fundamental character.

Stacyhs 24th June 2021 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13518168)
The problem is that this plan is not the plan of a malignant narcissist like trump. This simply goes against everything we know about Trump's fundamental character.

Exactly!

SuburbanTurkey 24th June 2021 09:55 AM

OAN calling for tens of thousands of people to be put to death for committing voter fraud.

https://twitter.com/willsommer/statu...25243000365057

Stacyhs 24th June 2021 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13518219)
OAN calling for tens of thousands of people to be put to death for committing voter fraud.

https://twitter.com/willsommer/statu...25243000365057

Do you have to fail a mental competency test to work at OAN?

turingtest 24th June 2021 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage72 (Post 13518060)
Also Jesse Ventura. The first time his opponents invited him to participate in a debate, they expected him to make a fool of himself, forgetting that he had decades of experience working behind a microphone and in front of a camera and performing for the public.

That's the thing that helped get us Trump, and may be, in the long run, a bigger problem than any one fool- the idea that you don't really have to know anything about policy to be a politician, you don't even really ever have to know what you're talking about- you just have to perform as if you do, and you can count on people mistaking you for someone who actually can. Image over substance has always been a concern, but in these days of social media (and, god save us, social media "influencers"), it's never been as pervasive as today.

Lurch 24th June 2021 06:26 PM

America has long lead the way in image-over-substance-as-qualification.

Tero 26th June 2021 04:12 AM

Critical Race Theory (did not find a thread with that title) in Iowa:
Quote:

The Iowa legislature has just passed a new law on teaching about racism in the Iowa schools. It is long, vague, and contradictory. It is a confusing, poorly drafted piece of legislation. It is clear, though, that it drastically restricts speech on the part of students and teachers. It is now law, but unlikely to have much legal impact as it is almost certainly unconstitutional and does not include tough enforcement measures.

Yet it still matters. We are losing many of our best college graduates to places like Chicago, Minneapolis, and Texas. Our civic leaders try to win new businesses in the state yet employers are unlikely to invest in a state that looks like Mississippi, only with cold weather.
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/180574

SuburbanTurkey 29th June 2021 10:35 AM

US Rep. Paul Gosar is more openly allying himself with fascist elements among the right wing. He has been seen openly associating with white nationalist Nick Fuentes and helping raise money for the fascist America First PAC.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...st/7792323002/

Trebuchet 29th June 2021 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tero (Post 13519666)
Critical Race Theory (did not find a thread with that title) in Iowa:


https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/180574

Here you go. I've avoided reading it.

dudalb 30th June 2021 02:19 PM

A lot the people screaming about Crictical Race Theory have no idea what it is, frankly.
It's a badly flawed theory of History which I would not like to see taught as fact, but the ones screaming about it want an discussion of racism in American history banned from the classroom.

Norman Alexander 30th June 2021 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13523818)
A lot the people screaming about Crictical Race Theory have no idea what it is, frankly.
It's a badly flawed theory of History which I would not like to see taught as fact, but the ones screaming about it want an discussion of racism in American history banned from the classroom.

It's better than the fairy tales that underlie Mormonism. And Mormonism totally dominates politics in a number of western US states. So worrying about CRT while completely ignoring the much bigger and clearly extant nonsense that is Mormonism is, frankly, hypocritical.

Also, whenever I see the acronym "CRT", I'm old enough to think first of "cathode ray tube". ;)

BobTheCoward 30th June 2021 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turingtest (Post 13518255)
That's the thing that helped get us Trump, and may be, in the long run, a bigger problem than any one fool- the idea that you don't really have to know anything about policy to be a politician, you don't even really ever have to know what you're talking about- you just have to perform as if you do, and you can count on people mistaking you for someone who actually can. Image over substance has always been a concern, but in these days of social media (and, god save us, social media "influencers"), it's never been as pervasive as today.

Except trump had a bad image and bad performances. I have never been able to see the appeal.

Belz... 1st July 2021 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13524023)
Also, whenever I see the acronym "CRT", I'm old enough to think first of "cathode ray tube". ;)

Glad I'm not the only one with that affliction!

BobTheCoward 1st July 2021 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13522616)
US Rep. Paul Gosar is more openly allying himself with fascist elements among the right wing. He has been seen openly associating with white nationalist Nick Fuentes and helping raise money for the fascist America First PAC.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...st/7792323002/

I'm having trouble finding evidence they are fascist.

Crossbow 1st July 2021 09:45 AM

This posting is about Don Jr as opposed to Don Sr, but it shows that the apple does not fall too far from the tree.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/donal...071522699.html

Donald Trump Jr. Did It Again With A Ridiculous Take On 'Brittany' Spears’ Conservatorship

Quote:

How many Americans rightly concerned about Brittany Spears’ conservatorship had no problems with America’s conservatorship under blue state governors for the past year???
I’m guessing close to 100%
First, he misspelled Spears first name. Which is not surprising since Trump Sr has misspelled his own name, the name of his third wife, and numerous other words as well.

Second, he tried to make some sort of weird equivalence between the trouble that Spears has been having with her father, and Democrat governors. Which is the sort of weird thing that Trump Sr is famous for frequently doing.

Third, Trump Jr issued this public tirade in order to appeal to Trump Sr, but instead he just made a public fool of himself. And making a public fool of himself is something that his father is quite good.

Norman Alexander 1st July 2021 03:55 PM

Wouldn't mind betting that most of the recent public T**** tirades against his various perceived enemies were penned by Don Jr instead. They have the same flavour and un-nuanced lunacy combined with an ability to string a basic sentence together which we know the tiny-handed one does not have.

ahhell 2nd July 2021 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13524023)
It's better than the fairy tales that underlie Mormonism. And Mormonism totally dominates politics in a number of western US states. So worrying about CRT while completely ignoring the much bigger and clearly extant nonsense that is Mormonism is, frankly, hypocritical.

Also, whenever I see the acronym "CRT", I'm old enough to think first of "cathode ray tube". ;)

The dominate politics in one western state, its actually one of the better run states actually. They are also the one group of Reps that have been consistently anti-Trump.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13523818)
A lot the people screaming about Crictical Race Theory have no idea what it is, frankly.
It's a badly flawed theory of History which I would not like to see taught as fact, but the ones screaming about it want an discussion of racism in American history banned from the classroom.

Its not really a theory of history. There is a philosophical theory and a legal theory. I forget who came up with the line but there's nothing wrong with CRT that can't be fixed by dividing by 10. Which is to say, there is truth in it, it just not nearly as explanatory as many of its proponents think.

ahhell 2nd July 2021 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 13524240)
I'm having trouble finding evidence they are fascist.

I am amused, from wiki:
Quote:

Fuentes is Catholic, and of Hispanic and Italian descent.
Pretty typical white nationalist.

I'm also amused, remember when the conservative were all panicked about O'bama's association with Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers?

Edit to add, I'm having trouble figuring out what profanity begins with "T".

The Don 2nd July 2021 10:28 AM

The most recent ex-president is often referred to as a T followed by 4 asterisks.

There is a four letter profanity beginning with T, it's the opposite of Pan-Am coffee ;)

carlitos 2nd July 2021 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 13525240)
I am amused, from wiki:
Quote:

Fuentes is Catholic, and of Hispanic and Italian descent.
Pretty typical white nationalist.

Hispanic and Italian, like Franco and Mussolini?

What Fuentes does is form a gateway into white nationalism by laundering it through his "America First" brand, which might not seem overtly nazi to the uninformed.

link

Quote:

America First and Religious Entryism

AFers characterized themselves as Christian nationalists, meaning that they believe that the US is fundamentally a Christian nation, but elements of their movement reveal even deeper commitments to reactionary ideology. Fuentes has also made statements indicating Holocaust denial and promotes racist ideas (eg, “human biodiversity” and “race realism”) prominent among white nationalists. He also has a particular view of universal Catholic doctrine common among fascists. However, efforts to engage politically with different congregations outside of Catholicism characterize AF’s larger effort to move Trump supporters and the rest of the Republican Party toward white nationalist positions.

Fuentes openly debates other movement members from different congregations, like Pentecostalists and Seventh Day Adventists, about the nuances of revealed doctrine. To people who have expressed support for America First, Fuentes advises remaining discreet about their sympathies, while dropping hints about their beliefs and observing how their cohorts respond. In this way, America First works through entryism not just in college groups, and Turning Point USA most specifically, but also in churches and other right-wing organizations.

Trebuchet 2nd July 2021 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbow (Post 13524385)
This posting is about Don Jr as opposed to Don Sr, but it shows that the apple does not fall too far from the tree.



https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/donal...071522699.html



Donald Trump Jr. Did It Again With A Ridiculous Take On 'Brittany' Spears’ Conservatorship







First, he misspelled Spears first name. Which is not surprising since Trump Sr has misspelled his own name, the name of his third wife, and numerous other words as well.



Second, he tried to make some sort of weird equivalence between the trouble that Spears has been having with her father, and Democrat governors. Which is the sort of weird thing that Trump Sr is famous for frequently doing.



Third, Trump Jr issued this public tirade in order to appeal to Trump Sr, but instead he just made a public fool of himself. And making a public fool of himself is something that his father is quite good.

Surprising as it may seem, I long ago realized that Junior and Eric are simply not as bright as their old man.

Stacyhs 2nd July 2021 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 13525420)
Surprising as it may seem, I long ago realized that Junior and Eric are simply not as bright as their old man.

Ivana was sniffing glue, drinking moonshine, and binge reading books with Fabio on the cover during her pregnancies. It's the only explanation.
She was also injecting bleach when she was pregnant with Eric:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1410740695770353668

Warp12 3rd July 2021 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13525646)
Ivana was sniffing glue, drinking moonshine, and binge reading books with Fabio on the cover during her pregnancies. It's the only explanation.
She was also injecting bleach when she was pregnant with Eric:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1410740695770353668

Keep it classy, peeps. Especially when critiquing the character of others. ;)

Stacyhs 3rd July 2021 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13526168)
Keep it classy, peeps. Especially when critiquing the character of others. ;)

When the Trump boys and their father stop undermining the very foundation of our Democratic Republic...our elections...with their "Stop the Steal" lies and encouraging an insurrection that resulted in the attack on the Capitol, then I'll worry about how I critique their 'characters'.

Belz... 6th July 2021 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13526195)
When the Trump boys and their father stop undermining the very foundation of our Democratic Republic...our elections...with their "Stop the Steal" lies and encouraging an insurrection that resulted in the attack on the Capitol, then I'll worry about how I critique their 'characters'.

Ah, but you see, "being dramatic" is a sin at least as bad as anything that someone on the right can do.

SuburbanTurkey 6th July 2021 05:55 AM

Fascists and transphobes (but I repeat myself) join up for a violent anti-trans street rally. Wi Spa, a Korean spa, has become a flashpoint after a woman made a viral video berating the staff for their trans-inclusive policies.

2 people were stabbed, which includes one transphobe that seems to have been stabbed in a case of friendly fire while trying to assist the Proud Boy stabber during a scuffle with antifascist counter-protestors.

https://twitter.com/VPS_Reports/stat...22724193865729

Another fascist snuck up behind a marked member of the press and struck them over the head with a metal pipe. Fortunately the victim was wearing a helmet.


https://twitter.com/VPS_Reports/stat...94265933877261

As these groups become disillusioned with Trump, they will not go away, they will simply gin up new things to be outraged about as pretexts for violent street rallies. In California, "anti-pedophilia" seems to be a common pretext for these fascists to hold violent rallies and label their enemies as unredeemable perverts. Such accusations appeal to those with violent tendencies and is a common whitewashing used by Qanon adherents to soft-sell their extremist beliefs.

The man who committed a broad daylight double stabbing was not arrested by police on scene. Police have not changed their practice of enabling right wing street violence in the aftermath of the Jan6 attack.

kookbreaker 6th July 2021 07:05 AM

On July 3rd a group of 150 Nazis not from the are decided to march through Philadelphia. Their March was cut short by counter protesters and the Nazis threw smoke bombs to try and cover attacks on counter protesters. Once they were outnumbered they tried to escape but were stopped by police because they were cramming members into rental trucks. This was a safety violation and a violation of the rental truck agreement.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ladelphia.html


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