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-   -   The 'Gay Gene' Is a Total Myth, Massive Study Concludes (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338539)

That19Guy 29th August 2019 04:22 PM

The 'Gay Gene' Is a Total Myth, Massive Study Concludes
 
Sorry bout it but you weren't "Born This Way"


Quote:

No individual gene alone makes a person gay, lesbian or bisexual; instead, thousands of genes likely influence sexual orientation, a massive new study of the genomes of nearly half a million people suggests.

Across human societies and in both sexes, between 2% and 10% of people report engaging in sex with a member of the same sex, either exclusively or in addition to sex with a member of the opposite sex, the researchers said. The biological factors that contribute to sexual orientation are largely unknown, but many scientists suspect that genetics plays a role, given that same-sex sexual behavior appears to run in families and is seen more often in identical twins than in fraternal twins.

But a precise genetic basis for sexual orientation has been elusive, largely because scientists previously had relatively small groups of volunteers to investigate.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 4.

https://www.livescience.com/no-singl...meone-gay.html

Not at all surprised. The end result of homosexuality produces a repeatable outcome.

Disease.

On a grand scale. And yet we have people arguing for the growth of that and the promulgation of it.

Max_mang 29th August 2019 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That19Guy (Post 12802988)
https://www.livescience.com/no-singl...meone-gay.html

Not at all surprised. The end result of homosexuality produces a repeatable outcome.

Disease.

On a grand scale. And yet we have people arguing for the growth of that and the promulgation of it.

Whoa, who's on the who what now?

RecoveringYuppy 29th August 2019 04:57 PM

Please note that the first sentence of the "quote" cited by That19Guy is not a quote. Also note that that sentence is contradicted by the actual quote (even by the first sentence of the real quote FFS). And That91Guy's conclusions are not at all supported by the study.

fromdownunder 29th August 2019 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy (Post 12803013)
Please note that the first sentence of the "quote" cited by That91Guy is not a quote.


Yes, he made that bit up out of whole cloth.
Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12



Norm

angrysoba 29th August 2019 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That19Guy (Post 12802988)
https://www.livescience.com/no-singl...meone-gay.html

Not at all surprised. The end result of homosexuality produces a repeatable outcome.

Disease.

On a grand scale. And yet we have people arguing for the growth of that and the promulgation of it.

No, homosexuality makes the baby Jesus cry. Get it right.

Dumbest OP in a while. Poster inserts his own bit of editorializing trying to pass it off as part of the quoted article when all the article says is there is not one specific gene but a number of genes that play a role in someone’s sexuality.

Robin 29th August 2019 05:25 PM

Quote:

No individual gene alone makes a person gay, lesbian or bisexual; instead, thousands of genes likely influence sexual orientation, a massive new study of the genomes of nearly half a million people suggests.
is there anyone, anywhere, ever who suggested it was just one gene????

And how do you get from that to "you weren't born this way "?

That19Guy 29th August 2019 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angrysoba (Post 12803021)
No, homosexuality makes the baby Jesus cry. Get it right.

Dumbest OP in a while. Poster inserts his own bit of editorializing trying to pass it off as part of the quoted article when all the article says is there is not one specific gene but a number of genes that play a role in someone’s sexuality.

Au contraire

DNA evolves as you age... I'll spare you all the details since y'all should know this by now but if you dont know here's a very basic intro article to it called:

" YOUR DNA CHANGES AS YOU AGE"
https://gizmodo.com/your-dna-changes-as-you-age-5917672


Connect the dots...but what exactly changes your DNA? What helps it evolve and change?

hmmmmmm


environment?


Yeah that was easy.

Here's some Science supporting that too. This one's called:

ENVIRONMENTAL INFLUENCES ON GENE EXPRESSION

https://www.nature.com/scitable/topi...xpression-536/


So like many people have known for years, folk become who they become because of the world around them, not the world within them.

I know it's not what you wanted it to be but it is what it is

Robin 29th August 2019 05:41 PM

If gays weren't born this way, it kind of implies that heterosexuals weren't born that way either.

I am always intrigued to hear the details of people who didn't have any natural sexual attraction to either sex, but rather sat down one day to decide which they wanted to be.

Did they get a sheet of paper with a line drawn down the middle and list the pros and cons of each "choice"?

And after they decided to go with the lifestyle choice of heterosexuality, how did they go about going from having no sexual attraction at all to anyone to becoming sexually attracted to the opposite sex?

Curiously the people who make the "lifestyle choice" claim are always a little shy about discussing how they made the lifestyle choice of heterosexuality.

Robin 29th August 2019 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That19Guy (Post 12803030)
Au contraire

Maybe you can enlighten me.

I assume you are heterosexual. How did you go about making that choice? At what age did you make the choice?

Let's say you are 13 years old and not sexually attracted to anyone at all and you decided "Hey, I know, I will become one of those heterosexuals", how did you go about it?

How did you make yourself sexually attracted to the opposite sex?

RecoveringYuppy 29th August 2019 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That19Guy (Post 12803030)
Au contraire


Are you massively illiterate? Nothing in the new links you've cited supports "au contraire".

Trebuchet 29th August 2019 05:51 PM

Yet another bigot on the List That Shall Not Be Named. Thanks for outing yourself.

Venom 29th August 2019 05:52 PM

Even if you weren't born that way your sexuality probably is still largely if not completely out of your control.

Skeptic Ginger 29th August 2019 05:54 PM

Seems to me a lot of anti-gay guys are fighting internal demons about their sexuality.

Robin 29th August 2019 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin (Post 12803041)
Maybe you can enlighten me.

I assume you are heterosexual. How did you go about making that choice? At what age did you make the choice.

Let's say you are 13 years old and not sexually attracted to anyone at all and you decided "Hey, I know, I will become one of those heterosexuals", how did you go about it?

How did you make yourself sexually attracted to the opposite sex?

@That19guy Or are you claiming that it was some environmental factor that made you heterosexual?

In that case what environmental factor was it that made you attracted to the opposite sex?

That19Guy 29th August 2019 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom (Post 12803051)
Even if you weren't born that way your sexuality probably is still largely if not completely out of your control.

It's not about caring about who they become, it's about clarifying why the became that way.

I don't want the kids today growing up indoctrinated into a world where people equate homosexuality to something you have no control over.

You have control over it because you have control over your DNA

I know that's too much for them to fathom because they're drones but it's the reality of things

So again.

Wanna smush dudes? Don't care. Wanna swing both ways? Go for it..

Just know that nothing in your chemical composition led you to that life, but rather the interest in that life led to the changes in your chemical composition.

RecoveringYuppy 29th August 2019 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That19Guy (Post 12803060)
Just know that nothing in your chemical composition led you to that life, but rather the interest in that life led to the changes in your chemical composition.


That19Guy just proved you wrong.

That19Guy 29th August 2019 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin (Post 12803058)
@That19guy Or are you claiming that it was some environmental factor that made you heterosexual?

In that case what environmental factor was it that made you attracted to the opposite sex?

If you control the environment to a degree where there's as much homosexuality as heterosexuality then you're going to see a rise in homosexuality.

So yeah you can turn someone gay by increasing the likelihood that they turn gay that's very simple logic.

If you go to a batting cage everyday for a month you will become better at hitting a baseball.

If you are subjected to homosexual programming repeatedly and you see more of it than heterosexual influence, you have a likelier chance of growing to be homosexual.

There's nothing outlandish about that logic.

And to be clear: I don't even have a problem with it.

All I care about is acknowledging that that's what has happened in the last 20-30 years in this country and it's only increased in effect

Arisia 29th August 2019 06:15 PM

Whether it's nature or nurture*, it's still not a choice.


*-Nature all the way, of course.


If I wish hard enough, can I change my natural hair color or eye color? You'd think those would be less complicated and more achievable than changing sexual orientation.

Thermal 29th August 2019 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin (Post 12803041)
Maybe you can enlighten me.

I assume you are heterosexual. How did you go about making that choice? At what age did you make the choice?

Let's say you are 13 years old and not sexually attracted to anyone at all and you decided "Hey, I know, I will become one of those heterosexuals", how did you go about it?

How did you make yourself sexually attracted to the opposite sex?

Taking bets?

Venom 29th August 2019 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That19Guy (Post 12803060)
It's not about caring about who they become, it's about clarifying why the became that way.

I don't want the kids today growing up indoctrinated into a world where people equate homosexuality to something you have no control over.

You have control over it because you have control over your DNA

I know that's too much for them to fathom because they're drones but it's the reality of things

So again.

Wanna smush dudes? Don't care. Wanna swing both ways? Go for it..

Just know that nothing in your chemical composition led you to that life, but rather the interest in that life led to the changes in your chemical composition.

I had some very strange, some would say deviant thoughts as a small child, I'm talking around 6 years of age.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who's explored their sexuality far before puberty and how can you even blame a child for that? Seems like something we discover rather than something we consciously try to produce.

Puppycow 29th August 2019 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That19Guy (Post 12803030)
Au contraire

DNA evolves as you age... I'll spare you all the details since y'all should know this by now but if you dont know here's a very basic intro article to it called:

" YOUR DNA CHANGES AS YOU AGE"
https://gizmodo.com/your-dna-changes-as-you-age-5917672


Connect the dots...but what exactly changes your DNA? What helps it evolve and change?

hmmmmmm


environment?


Yeah that was easy.

Wrong again. Did you even read your own article, or just the headline?
Quote:

While our bodies age, scientists believe that our DNA at least remains constant. New research, however, reveals that, even though its sequence remains constant, subtle chemical changes occur to our DNA as we age—and it could explain why the risk of developing disease increases as we get older.
The difference is in a thing called methylation, which the study found varied according to age, but there was no suggestion that different environments would result in different patterns of methylation.

Bottom line is the basic gene sequence, the code, does not change or "evolve" as we age.

Robin 29th August 2019 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That19Guy (Post 12803062)
If you control the environment to a degree where there's as much homosexuality as heterosexuality then you're going to see a rise in homosexuality.

So yeah you can turn someone gay by increasing the likelihood that they turn gay that's very simple logic.

If you go to a batting cage everyday for a month you will become better at hitting a baseball.

If you are subjected to homosexual programming repeatedly and you see more of it than heterosexual influence, you have a likelier chance of growing to be homosexual.

There's nothing outlandish about that logic.

And to be clear: I don't even have a problem with it.

All I care about is acknowledging that that's what has happened in the last 20-30 years in this country and it's only increased in effect

You didn't answer the question.

Did environmental factors turn you into a heterosexual? If so, what environmental factor caused that to happen?

Or did you decide one day to make yourself attracted people of the opposite sex?

To be clear I don't have a problem with heterosexuality either, I think it is fine and natural and that heterosexuals can go on to be productive members of society.

(PS, if you don't want to talk about some tragic event that turned you into a heterosexual then that's OK)

Norman Alexander 29th August 2019 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12803094)
Bottom line is the basic gene sequence, the code, does not change or "evolve" as we age.

If cells do change their DNA, they become mutated and grow very differently. That's what we usually call "cancer", not "homosexuality".

Seems our OP also has a severe case of mistaking the symptom for the cause.

Norman Alexander 29th August 2019 07:06 PM

Our OP should have clicked on a related link to that story on the same website: 5 Myths About Gay People

One of these myths is:
Quote:

BEING GAY IS A CHOICE

While some claim that being gay is a choice, or that homosexuality can be cured, evidence is mounting that same-sex attraction is at least partly genetic and biologically based.

To test whether genes play a role, researchers have compared identical twins (in which all genes are shared) to fraternal twins (in which about 50 percent of genes are shared). A 2001 review of such twin studies reported that almost all found identical twins were significantly more likely to share a sexual orientation – that is, to be either both gay, or both straight – than fraternal twins, who are less genetically close. Such findings indicate that genes do factor into a person's orientation.

Other studies have found that biological effects, such as hormone exposure in the womb, can also play a role in shaping sexual orientation. And findings of physiological differences, such as different inner ear shapes between homosexual and heterosexual women, contribute to this idea.

"The results support the theory that differences in the central nervous system exist between homosexual and heterosexual individuals and that the differences are possibly related to early factors in brain development," said Sandra Witelson of McMaster University in Ontario, an author on the 1998 inner ear finding published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

deadrose 29th August 2019 07:09 PM

They didn't find a *single* gay gene, they found several genes that correlated to being gay to a more than random level. From what they've found it looks as if it's a combination of genetic propensity, birth order, and several other possible factors, but it's not something you choose.

I wish people would learn about genetics beyond Mendel and Punnett squares, I really do.

deadrose 29th August 2019 07:10 PM

Also the business with the birth order among boys means that the Quiverfull type Christians, by having as many babies as they possibly can, are producing more than the average of gay kids :D

Robin 29th August 2019 07:19 PM

I have always marvelled that the human race survived given that heterosexuality is such an ephemeral condition that evaporates, for example, in the presence of a Telly Tubby with a handbag

acbytesla 29th August 2019 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That19Guy (Post 12803030)
Au contraire

DNA evolves as you age... I'll spare you all the details since y'all should know this by now but if you dont know here's a very basic intro article to it called:

" YOUR DNA CHANGES AS YOU AGE"
https://gizmodo.com/your-dna-changes-as-you-age-5917672


Connect the dots...but what exactly changes your DNA? What helps it evolve and change?

hmmmmmm


environment?


Yeah that was easy.

Here's some Science supporting that too. This one's called:

ENVIRONMENTAL INFLUENCES ON GENE EXPRESSION

https://www.nature.com/scitable/topi...xpression-536/


So like many people have known for years, folk become who they become because of the world around them, not the world within them.

I know it's not what you wanted it to be but it is what it is

Frankly, it makes no difference to me whether it's biological or environmental.

What I don't believe is that it is a choice. People like what they like and don't like what they don't. I do know that people's tastes change. I can think of at least a dozen foods I could not stand when I was younger that I love now. I can also think of foods I still hate.

Maybe it's that way with penis. Some people love it right from the start and others develop a taste for it. Either way, It's each individual's life. You should be free to live it.

Roboramma 29th August 2019 07:22 PM

The OP's conclusions are contradicted in almost every sentence in the quoted text. I was going to highlight some of those contradictions but I'd literally need to quote the whole thing. Instead I suggest the OP go back and read the text he quoted.

Biology is complicated and almost all traits are associated with complexes of genes rather than some single gene that turns some trait on or off. The analogy with height mentioned in the quote is a good one.

I suppose it's possible that, like height, the environmental influences on sexual orientation might become more well understood and parents wanting children of one sexual orientation or the other could try to increase the probability by making changes to their environment. But, given that those influences currently aren't well understood, I'll take the OP's speculations about what they are as just that, speculation.

isissxn 29th August 2019 07:22 PM

This is good news, OP! According to your interpretation of these findings, I must be able to turn myself into a lesbian, after all. I'm going to get right on that. I knew I just wasn't trying hard enough.

I can't wait. No more "Mars vs. Venus" complications for me.

Ladies?

uke2se 29th August 2019 07:22 PM

Could we please discuss the article and not the OP's bigoted and ridiculous interpretation of it? We certainly shouldn't engage with any of his posts.

Roboramma 29th August 2019 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 12803128)
Frankly, it makes no difference to me whether it's biological or environmental. What I don't believe is that it is a choice. People like what they like and don't like what they don't. I do know that people's tastes change. I can think of at least a dozen foods I could not stand when I was younger that I love now. I can also think of foods I still hate.

Maybe it's that way with penis. Some people love it right from the start and others develop a taste for it. Either way, It's each individual's life. You should be free to live it.

Yep.

As mentioned in the quoted text, height is similarly affected by many genes, and also has an environmental component. But I certainly didn't choose to be 5'7", and if one day I decide that I'd rather be 6', I doubt I'll be successful.

Roboramma 29th August 2019 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke2se (Post 12803132)
Could we please discuss the article and not the OP's bigoted and ridiculous interpretation of it? We certainly shouldn't engage with any of his posts.

The article is interesting in that they put together a much larger database linking people to their genomes than has been done before in looking at this question. The results are in line with everything I had previously understood on the topic. Good science but nothing ground breaking.

Unsurprisingly, particularly for a behavioural trait, sexual orientation is a complex interplay of many factors.

Robin 29th August 2019 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke2se (Post 12803132)
Could we please discuss the article and not the OP's bigoted and ridiculous interpretation of it? We certainly shouldn't engage with any of his posts.

But the article is pretty much the conventional view. The "There is a gene for that" attitude is a popular simplification. Pretty much everything is not the result of a single gene but the effect of a number of genes interacting and also the environment.


So there is nothing new or controversial about the article.

Thermal 29th August 2019 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 12803128)
Frankly, it makes no difference to me whether it's biological or environmental. What I don't believe is that it is a choice. People like what they like and don't like what they don't. I do know that people's tastes change. I can think of at least a dozen foods I could not stand when I was younger that I love now. I can also think of foods I still hate.

Maybe it's that way with penis. Some people love it right from the start and others develop a taste for it. Either way, It's each individual's life. You should be free to live it.

There we go.

If you are consenting and of age, live it up. I care if you are a nice person, not how you get your rocks off. That's your biz.

uke2se 29th August 2019 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin (Post 12803142)
But the article is pretty much the conventional view. The "There is a gene for that" attitude is a popular simplification. Pretty much everything is not the result of a single gene but the effect of a number of genes interacting and also the environment.


So there is nothing new or controversial about the article.

In that case, I propose we allow the thread to die. Either that, or we can discuss the particular kind of bigotry displayed by the OP. My main point is that we should not engage the OP in any way.

Baylor 29th August 2019 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12803107)
If cells do change their DNA, they become mutated and grow very differently. That's what we usually call "cancer", not "homosexuality".

Seems our OP also has a severe case of mistaking the symptom for the cause.

Oh god no. Jesus Christ the cringe on here is so bad. Epigenetic changes don't just occur in tumor suppressor genes. This place is so scientifically illiterate, and proud of it.

Baylor 29th August 2019 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke2se (Post 12803146)
In that case, I propose we allow the thread to die. Either that, or we can discuss the particular kind of bigotry displayed by the OP. My main point is that we should not engage the OP in any way.

Luckily, we don't all live in the homoegeneous white nationalist country of Sweden. We value diversity here at ISF and diverse opinions are welcome. And no one thinks your idiotic maneuvers to control the discussion have any legitimacy.

For those interested in the topic, there is a Wikipedia page on the Epigenetic theories of homosexuality. I suggest giving it a read. I said I will not supply any more links due to the inability of this forum to understand them but i will make an exception here since some people think all epigenetic changes lead to cancer. (wow)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigen..._homosexuality

angrysoba 29th August 2019 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That19Guy (Post 12803030)
Au contraire

DNA evolves as you age... I'll spare you all the details since y'all should know this by now but if you dont know here's a very basic intro article to it called:

" YOUR DNA CHANGES AS YOU AGE"
https://gizmodo.com/your-dna-changes-as-you-age-5917672


Connect the dots...but what exactly changes your DNA? What helps it evolve and change?

hmmmmmm


environment?


Yeah that was easy.

Here's some Science supporting that too. This one's called:

ENVIRONMENTAL INFLUENCES ON GENE EXPRESSION

https://www.nature.com/scitable/topi...xpression-536/


So like many people have known for years, folk become who they become because of the world around them, not the world within them.

All of that probably means something. What it means, nobody (including you) knows.

Quote:

I know it's not what you wanted it to be but it is what it is
Actually, I have no interest in the question of whether homosexuality is nature or nurture. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is a bit of both.

What bothers me is when people such as yourself, with an obvious axe to grind, misrepresent science news to drive an agenda.

Shalamar 29th August 2019 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baylor (Post 12803157)
Luckily, we don't all live in the homoegeneous white nationalist country of Sweden. We value diversity here at ISF and diverse opinions are welcome. And no one thinks your idiotic maneuvers to control the discussion have any legitimacy.

For those interested in the topic, there is a Wikipedia page on the Epigenetic theories of homosexuality. I suggest giving it a read. I said I will not supply any more links due to the inability of this forum to understand them but i will make an exception here since some people think all epigenetic changes lead to cancer. (wow)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigen..._homosexuality

Since you obviously hate it here, and can only respond via ad-hom, and personal attacks, why stay here? The OP has already been shown to be hilariously wrong, and people have the ability to respond, or not. What is being stated is that since the OP is so wrong, and it has been pointed out as such, there is no point in engaging.


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