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-   -   Attacks on Africans expose India's racist inclinations (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318392)

Graham2001 5th April 2017 03:33 AM

Attacks on Africans expose India's racist inclinations
 
Not trolling, but this is not the first time I have encountered racism by non-Whites.

Quote:

The recent attacks on Africans have raised concerns about the safety of foreigners in India and an alarming trend of hate crimes and racism in the country. What does it mean for India's pluralistic ethos?

...

The racist attacks are not restricted to Africans; even the students from India's northeastern region complain that they are being discriminated against because of their "Chinese looks."


"We face racism because we look different. I can relate to my African colleagues. The parliament needs to pass an anti-racism law," Alana Golmei, an Indian student from the northeastern region, told DW.

http://www.dw.com/en/attacks-on-afri...ons/a-38207117

fagin 5th April 2017 04:01 AM

You obviously weren't brought up in South Africa.

All race groups had elements that didn't like the others, and we had a number of official designations - white, black, coloured and indian.
Coloureds and Indians were formally classified into various subgroups, including Cape Coloured, Malay, Griqua, Chinese, Indian, Other Asian and Other Coloured.
Japanese were considered honourary whites. Lucky devils.

Craig B 5th April 2017 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham2001 (Post 11786702)
Not trolling, but this is not the first time I have encountered racism by non-Whites.

Why should non whites be any different? In India, in addition, there has been in the past a caste system which closely resembles racism. And it is not yet extinct. So why the seeming surprise?

marplots 5th April 2017 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fagin (Post 11786745)
You obviously weren't brought up in South Africa.

All race groups had elements that didn't like the others, and we had a number of official designations - white, black, coloured and indian.
Coloureds and Indians were formally classified into various subgroups, including Cape Coloured, Malay, Griqua, Chinese, Indian, Other Asian and Other Coloured.
Japanese were considered honourary whites. Lucky devils.

We should do that with hair.

"What do you call it when a Ginger pushes a Baldy out of an airplane and then falls out after him?"

"Luck."

baron 5th April 2017 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham2001 (Post 11786702)
Not trolling, but this is not the first time I have encountered racism by non-Whites.

Ah, the perils of trusting leftist media.

Hlafordlaes 5th April 2017 05:03 AM

There are, in the final analysis, two main modes of behavior for homo sapiens sapiens, classified as "Jekyll" and "Hyde." This is valid species-wide.

Jim_MDP 5th April 2017 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marplots (Post 11786772)
We should do that with hair.

"What do you call it when a Ginger pushes a Baldy out of an airplane and then falls out after him?"

"Luck."


Ok... I laughed. Make it happen. :D

Armitage72 5th April 2017 05:33 AM

I remember an issue a few years ago with companies in India marketing skin lighteners for women, since darker skin is often considered less attractive and less desirable.

fagin 5th April 2017 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marplots (Post 11786772)
We should do that with hair.

"What do you call it when a Ginger pushes a Baldy out of an airplane and then falls out after him?"

"Luck."

Interestingly, one of the tests for classifying race, as there was much crossover, especially with 'coloureds' (the early boers did a lot of 'socialising' with the natives), was the pencil test. Stick it into someones hair and if it stayed there they weren't white. Colloquially the hair of black people was referred to as peperkorrels (pepper corns), because of the tight curls.

Jim_MDP 5th April 2017 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fagin (Post 11786916)
Interestingly, one of the tests for classifying race, as there was much crossover, especially with 'coloureds' (the early boers did a lot of 'socialising' with the natives), was the pencil test. Stick it into someones hair and if it stayed there they weren't white. Colloquially the hair of black people was referred to as peperkorrels (pepper corns), because of the tight curls.


Well... with my straight baby fine dark blond hair, that ain't happenin'.

Dammit... I fail again. Can I take the test over? :confused:



;)


#*********** racists

Edited by Agatha:  edited to properly mask swearing

ponderingturtle 5th April 2017 06:46 AM

How is this surprising? Gandhi was not exactly known for thinking blacks were the equal of indians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.549a16c69d4c

fuelair 5th April 2017 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP (Post 11786962)
Well... with my straight baby fine dark blond hair, that ain't happenin'.

Dammit... I fail again. Can I take the test over? :confused:



;)


# *********** racists

racist rectums works too!!!!!

Aepervius 5th April 2017 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham2001 (Post 11786702)
Not trolling, but this is not the first time I have encountered racism by non-Whites.




http://www.dw.com/en/attacks-on-afri...ons/a-38207117

Xenophobia is as human as many other emotion. I doubt anybody pretended there was not xenophobia in other countries. What is questionable is that it uses "races" and thus is racism, a subset of xenophobia based mostly on skin colors.

Modified 5th April 2017 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage72 (Post 11786893)
I remember an issue a few years ago with companies in India marketing skin lighteners for women, since darker skin is often considered less attractive and less desirable.

True in India and China. In China it is definitely rooted in "poor people work in outdoor jobs, so are darker/tan".

Vixen 6th April 2017 03:15 AM

I am surprised anybody is surprised. India has long had a rigid caste system.

Modified 7th April 2017 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 11788275)
I am surprised anybody is surprised. India has long had a rigid caste system.

But caste is only loosely associated with skin color, and most people may not know that. I didn't have a grasp of the Indian preference for light skin until grad school, hearing my Indian friends talk about someone's new "light" arranged bride. I was also unaware of the strong Chinese preference for light skin until I dated/married a Chinese woman. Even our idea of the Chinese skin tone is off. My wife and nephew get fairly brown with just a bit of sun. Most Chinese avoid the sun to such an extent that you don't see the range of skin tones that should be there.

FenerFan 7th April 2017 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage72 (Post 11786893)
I remember an issue a few years ago with companies in India marketing skin lighteners for women, since darker skin is often considered less attractive and less desirable.

In West Africa, skin lightening is a huge business. Women spend billlions to get lighter skin.

Klimax 10th April 2017 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modified (Post 11787042)
True in India and China. In China it is definitely rooted in "poor people work in outdoor jobs, so are darker/tan".

Not just in India/China. It was present in Europe too. To the point of aristocracy and other wealthy people trying to be white not just "white" - alabastr-like skin. It's just that in India and China it is now, instead of past.

I don't think it survived 20th century.

Modified 10th April 2017 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klimax (Post 11793425)
Not just in India/China. It was present in Europe too. To the point of aristocracy and other wealthy people trying to be white not just "white" - alabastr-like skin. It's just that in India and China it is now, instead of past.

I don't think it survived 20th century.

My understanding is that it reversed, at least for white people in GB, when the relation of wealth to skin tone became: "poor people work all day in factories and never leave the country, so are pale; rich people vacation frequently in warm climates, so are tan."

ponderingturtle 10th April 2017 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modified (Post 11793594)
My understanding is that it reversed, at least for white people in GB, when the relation of wealth to skin tone became: "poor people work all day in factories and never leave the country, so are pale; rich people vacation frequently in warm climates, so are tan."

I think that varied for men vs women as well. Active outdoor lifestyles of hunting and such were always acceptable for wealthy men. It wasn't until the 1920's that tan active women became more acceptable.

Klimax 10th April 2017 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modified (Post 11793594)
My understanding is that it reversed, at least for white people in GB, when the relation of wealth to skin tone became: "poor people work all day in factories and never leave the country, so are pale; rich people vacation frequently in warm climates, so are tan."

You're right. I wasn't just sure how prevalent in other countries it was. (In case of Czech Republic it was upgraded thanks to coming out of communism and lifted travel restrictions)

ETA: Don't know in this regard much about pre-WW2 First Republic.

blutoski 10th April 2017 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klimax (Post 11794113)
You're right. I wasn't just sure how prevalent in other countries it was. (In case of Czech Republic it was upgraded thanks to coming out of communism and lifted travel restrictions)

ETA: Don't know in this regard much about pre-WW2 First Republic.

I asked a relative about this. My biological family is still in Eastern Europe, and they all lived through the fall of the Berlin Wall &c. At least in northern republics (eg: Lithuania), having a tan was regarded as a healthy look prior to 1990.

And even prior to the lifting of travel restrictions, there were sunny vacation destinations.

I recall visiting a bar in Germany that was once in GDR territory, retaining its authentic 1980s vintage Caribbean decor. East Germans could save up and vacation in Cuba, so when they came back it was nice to relive that in a Cuban themed local eatery. Kinda like a Communist Trader Vic's.

And it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen.

Firstly, half the bric a brac in there is South Pacific Island / Hawaiian. The images and statuettes are all of long haired maidens, not Caribs or West Indian Africans. The music was steel guitar (instead of steel drum - did they just think it was close enough?)

To their credit, the new owners leveraged the decor so now it's a "80s Communist Retro" theme.

Roboramma 13th April 2017 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage72 (Post 11786893)
I remember an issue a few years ago with companies in India marketing skin lighteners for women, since darker skin is often considered less attractive and less desirable.

That's pretty common all over south east asia. People use whitening creams here in China, though I noticed the ads more when I lived in Hong Kong, that might just be because I went to cinemas more often there (which I where I'd see the ads).

They have a toothpaste here called "Darlie" which used to be called "Darkie" and the Chinese name of the brand still translates literally as "black person toothpaste" with the idea, I guess, being that black people have especially white teeth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie
Quote:

Darky, or darkie, is a term used primarily in the United Kingdom and United States to refer to black people, and is now generally considered disrespectful. The packaging featured an image of a wide-eyed, smiling dark-skinned black male wearing a top hat, monocle and bow-tie, an image resembling minstrelsy.

In 1990, after Colgate-Palmolive acquired Hawley & Hazel, the English name of the toothpaste was changed to "Darlie", and the image on the packaging was altered to show a racially ambiguous face in a top hat to avoid racial misunderstanding.[2] However, the Chinese name of the brand, "黑人牙膏" (in English, "Black Person Toothpaste"), remains the same, and a Chinese-language advertising campaign reassured customers that "Black Person Toothpaste is still Black Person Toothpaste".[3]

After the Colgate acquisition the toothpaste continued to be sold in some Asian countries, including China, Malaysia and Thailand where its brand and logo are not considered offensive. Colgate announced the product would not be sold outside of Asia.[4] As of 1989, the toothpaste held a 75% market share in Taiwan, 50% in Singapore, 30% in Malaysia and Hong Kong and 20% in Thailand.[5]
http://www.theworldofchinese.com/wp-...ie_master1.jpg

Roboramma 13th April 2017 06:19 AM

I had a personal experience with something that wasn't exactly racism but is similar, while I was living in India. I was there when the Iraq war started and that day I was walking down the street when I a group of men jumped out of a rickshaw and very aggressively surrounded and started yelling at me in Kanada (the local language in Karnataka province).

Luckily an Indian woman I knew was walking by and told them off and they left me alone. This all took place over a very short period of time so there was no chance for any violence, but the smell was definitely in the air. Later when I asked her "what was that about?" she just said "they were Muslims".

Here's an anecdote about China, of which I could go on and on, but I found this one funny. I was having dinner with a Chinese friend of mine (this is 10 or 11 years ago) and we started talking about cutlery. He made the argument that you could tell a society's level of civilisation based on what it used as an eating utensil. The least advanced were those who ate with their hands, the most advanced, obviously, were the Chinese who use chopsticks, the knife and fork style being somewhere in between.

marplots 13th April 2017 06:49 AM

The whitening/lightening creams I've seen weren't sold so much as an overall lightening thing but as a way to lighten darker patches to give a more even tone and conceal blotches, especially on visible skin around the face and neckline.

ahhell 13th April 2017 07:04 AM

Xenophobia is nearly a human universal, we shouldn't be surprised by this.

Roboramma 13th April 2017 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marplots (Post 11798016)
The whitening/lightening creams I've seen weren't sold so much as an overall lightening thing but as a way to lighten darker patches to give a more even tone and conceal blotches, especially on visible skin around the face and neckline.

That doesn't seem to be how they are advertised. (ETA: In SE Asia, anyway, I'm not trying to contradict that the marketing you have seen exists)

See for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpayDMlNoh8


Also I can say that there are plenty of "whitening" products that are incorporated into other all purpose things like soaps and moisturisers. I don't think those are intended for blotches given that they are applied over the whole body.

See for instance: https://www.alibaba.com/countrysearc...ning-soap.html

(This stuff is even more popular in Thailand than china, but: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/chi...ning-soap.html)

I can also attest to many women in China wanting to have whiter skin, avoiding the sun in order to avoid getting a tan (to the point that they will use an umbrella when walking in the street on a sunny day).

Many years ago I was dating a girl from the Philippines and my boss wanted to give her a gift so she gave her a bunch of skin whitening products, assuming that she would like them. Her skin was perfect (definitely free of any blotches), but a little on the dark side, though she's actually sort of light skinned compared to other Filipinos.

On the other hand, I'm not convinced that this is down to racism. It may be a cultural thing to do with farmers working outdoors and tending to get tan whereas higher status, richer, people tend not to work outdoors.

marplots 13th April 2017 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roboramma (Post 11798080)
That doesn't seem to be how they are advertised. (ETA: In SE Asia, anyway, I'm not trying to contradict that the marketing you have seen exists)

Yeah, this was Detroit, targeted at African Americans. I looked one up and here is the typical advertising blurb:

"Caspah has taken the lightening cream market by storm by creating safe and effective skin lightening creams that helps with the many skin blemishes experienced by people of all races. These blemishes come from many things such as scars, hyperpigmentation, birthmarks, dark underarms, age spots, and even a darker intimate area skin tone than usual."

I do know that overall tone lightening is done by some blacks, but it's controversial (in my opinion) because of implications of racism. Silly, I know.

Graham2001 14th April 2017 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 11798045)
Xenophobia is nearly a human universal, we shouldn't be surprised by this.

Indeed, two of the most surprising moments of racism I have encountered have involved 'Black-on-Black' racism (Australian Aboriginal screaming at East Africans to "...go back where you came from...".) and Black-on-Asian (In that case the perpetrator told me that her gran had been raped by a white man and that was she was doing was "Just the white blood talking.".)

Caper 14th April 2017 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham2001 (Post 11786702)
Not trolling, but this is not the first time I have encountered racism by non-Whites.
[/url]

Not the first time? Western whites are now probably the least racist.

Skeptic Tank 14th April 2017 07:23 AM

Is anyone here aware of any historical examples of non-black societies/groups who haven't ended up having approximately the same set of "prejudices" against blacks?

I'm unaware of any examples. It would be interesting if Eskimos randomly had a stereotype about blacks that they are exceptionally quiet, studious, and emotionally closed off. Slow to excite, etc.

If there were an example like that it might indicate that stereotypes are baseless but instead it seems like all non-blacks have arrived at pretty much the same impression and that this has been very consistent throughout history, too.

ahhell 14th April 2017 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank (Post 11799651)
Is anyone here aware of any historical examples of non-black societies/groups who haven't ended up having approximately the same set of "prejudices" against blacks?

I'm unaware of any examples. It would be interesting if Eskimos randomly had a stereotype about blacks that they are exceptionally quiet, studious, and emotionally closed off. Slow to excite, etc.

If there were an example like that it might indicate that stereotypes are baseless but instead it seems like all non-blacks have arrived at pretty much the same impression and that this has been very consistent throughout history, too.

Romans and Greeks typically thought that Africans were effete intellectuals and northern Europeans as hyper masculine, violent, and impulsive barbarians. They naturally thought that they were the best mix of both.

ahhell 14th April 2017 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham2001 (Post 11786702)
Not trolling, but this is not the first time I have encountered racism by non-Whites.




http://www.dw.com/en/attacks-on-afri...ons/a-38207117

Have you ever talked to an east Asian that wasn't raised in the West?

Anecdote: I had a chinese land lady/house mate that wouldn't rent to a black guy that was about the nerdiest dude I've ever met because he was black.

Skeptic Tank 14th April 2017 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 11799659)
Romans and Greeks typically thought that Africans were effete intellectuals and northern Europeans as hyper masculine, violent, and impulsive barbarians. They naturally thought that they were the best mix of both.

"Africans" meaning non-black Egyptians, Carthaginians, etc.

Not sub-Saharan black people. Don't be dishonest.

ahhell 14th April 2017 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank (Post 11800052)
"Africans" meaning non-black Egyptians, Carthaginians, etc.

Not sub-Saharan black people. Don't be dishonest.

Its not being dishonest, they basically had the reverse of modern stereotypes. The lighter your skin the more violent and impulsive you were, the darker your skin the more intellectual and effete you were. There exposure to Africans was largely limited to North Africans with the occasional Nubian.

Caper 14th April 2017 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 11799659)
Romans and Greeks typically thought that Africans were effete intellectuals and northern Europeans as hyper masculine, violent, and impulsive barbarians. They naturally thought that they were the best mix of both.

I'd love to know the lefty institution that cooked up this little nugget.

Caper 14th April 2017 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 11800066)
Its not being dishonest, they basically had the reverse of modern stereotypes. The lighter your skin the more violent and impulsive you were, the darker your skin the more intellectual and effete you were. There exposure to Africans was largely limited to North Africans with the occasional Nubian.

You are making stuff up. Stop it.

Klimax 15th April 2017 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caper (Post 11800483)
I'd love to know the lefty institution that cooked up this little nugget.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caper (Post 11800485)
You are making stuff up. Stop it.

You may want to read up on subject. Currently you are quite ignorant on that stuff.

Hint: Ancient Egypt and others from Northern Africa and Middle East versus "barbaric" tribes from Europe.

EHocking 15th April 2017 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 11799664)
...Anecdote: I had a chinese land lady/house mate that wouldn't rent to a black guy that was about the nerdiest dude I've ever met because he was black.

I didn't realise being black caused nerdism.

Giz 16th April 2017 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EHocking (Post 11801487)
I didn't realise being black caused nerdism.

Meh, given that the Roman definition of African covered semite folks such as the carthaginians it's more of a "Jews are nerds" stereotype that the Romans were rocking.


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