Brilliantly done! :thumbsup:

Can we get a full quote of this insanity?

I honestly didn't think anyone would try. Well done for sticking to your guns. I mean, it's bollocks rationalisation, that's clear, but I'm impressed by your refusal to accept reality.

From a BBC article, here are the paragraphs in question.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52399464

Which is why I have repeatedly said that he didn't explicitly suggest injecting disinfectant.

Probably.

I don't know that it matters though, as is pointed out above, he doesn't actually mean what he says. Except when he does. Although he's a self proclaimed expert in everything.

Can you tell me which bit he means and which he doesn't?

From here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177



"So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous - whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light," the president said, turning to Dr Deborah Birx, the White House coronavirus response co-ordinator, "and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it.

"And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside of the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that too. Sounds interesting," the president continued.
Media captionDonald Trump criticised Georgia’s governor for reopening

"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?

"So it'd be interesting to check that."

I must remember to quote stuff.

If you mean follow his advice, they would, and I'm guessing Trump got the idea from someone else, and wanted to use it to display his genius.
QAnon-ers’ Magic Cure for Coronavirus: Just Drink Bleach!

Narcissism, in combination with enormous power, influence, and political enablement, can indeed be lethal.

No, I didn't mean that. Someone made a post that I responded to without quoting it, then they edited the post before time was up on changing it without a notification. It's probably best just to ignore that post of mine. Sorry.

And he actually managed to make it worse. In the video, he certainly seemed to think that he was trying to help. Which simply says he's unaware of his limitations.

He's now claimed that was sarcastic. Which is obviously untrue, and if it were, it would have been utterly inappropriate. But it does show how utterly fragile his ego is.


But further from this.

XJX388, is there any behaviour that a POTUS would display that would make you say that the 25th Amendment should be invoked? At the moment, I'm struggling to see what more he could do to demonstrate his complete unfitness for office on grounds of mental incapacity.

Evidence of his pathologic behavior: watch how many of his proclamations and crazy ideas correlate with his imaginary world where the virus magically disappears (because he wants that to be real), and/or a magic bullet is found (because he wants that to be real). and/or the virus simply goes away in the summer (because he wants that to be real), and 'his' greatest economy in the history of the world (because he believes that fantasy) will simply start running full speed again in a few months (because he wants that to be real), and anything or person that exposes these fantasies are a plot/plotter against him personally (because he believes that fantasy).

That is all part of his pathology. And as we have seen over the last 3+ years, he cannot help himself.

I'm no fan of trump, but to be fair he was asking the scientists if they could look into his stupid idea,
he wasn't advocating people do it themselves.

"The sentence "It'd be interesting to check that" is not directed at any scientists explicitly. Saying it is there is supplying your own interpretation. Resorting on followers who believe his every word, many who do not trust scientists, is dangerous. The "bleach" proponents who fed him the idea a few days earlier certainly don't trust scientists.

That seems to be so, but I think given Trump's history of espousing stupid theories, of believing he's smarter than everyone else, and the history of those who follow him and believe him, it was at the very least recklessly, cluelessly stupid.

If he actually wanted scientists to look into his wacky and dangerous theories, he could, of course, have asked them off camera. I mean, I don't think it would be too hard to ask one of the many medical experts who are, one hopes, on tap during this crisis: "Hey, what would happen if you injected yourself with bleach?" But no, he chose to do it on camera for a nationwide audience, with the implication that he'd thought of something ingenious that they had not.

If that is not crazily megalomaniacal, it's outrageously (some might well say unforgiveably) stupid. As usual, the only way it seems possible to justify Trump's crazy behavior is to characterize him as too stupid to pass for crazy. Quite a choice.

That statement was not ignorant, it was stupid. Big difference.

I agree Trump isn't insane, but he is mentally ill. The two are not synonymous.

You are questioning me about something irrelevant to what I’ve been saying. I wouldn’t object if the VP or the Cabinet initiated 25th amendment proceedings to have him removed just based on his utter cluelessness, demonstrated incompetence and public inanity.

That has nothing to do with my argument here. I’m objecting to medical professionals issuing public diagnoses/evaluations for which there is no basis according to the ethics and standards of their professions. I’m objecting to “professional opinions” that are not based on professional practice.

I’ve made my layperson opinion about Trump very clear. I have no objection to lay opinions or if medical professionals would speak out as citizens and not medical professionals.

So asking scientists to try injecting disinfectants?

Asking scientists to do anything, Trump is a Dufus. Does he believe his passing on some ignorant suggestion to doctors is a useful thing to do?

Trump is asking doctors and scientists to do X because in Trump's pathologic fantasy, these ideas of magical cures are real.

I wonder if you can elucidate what you see as the difference. “Dangerously mentally ill,” is a pretty good shorthand for “insane” in a clinical sense.

Trump is ignorant and he thinks he is smarter than he really is. No argument. He engaged in some ignorant speculation. He’s dumb and dumb is dangerous in a POTUS.

Pathology is not a necessary ingredient in the **** salad Trump is serving us.

Do you not see any contradiction in those words?

Should medical professionals observing the obvious not voice their professional predictions as to how Trump's pathology is guiding his actions?

It is when you observe he cannot behave any other way.

No, they shouldn’t. They should talk about his actual actions, statements and policies and maybe give us an educated opinion about what the likely outcome is in their experience. They should not diagnose him, say he’s mentally ill or otherwise wear their white coat when doing so. They should also preface their commentary with something like, “I have not personally examined Trump so this isn’t a professional opinion...”

IOW, their professional status should not be used to lend undue weight to their opinions.

How does “pathology” change the flavor of the salad, so to speak? There is still **** in the salad either way.

Not really. There is no medical definition for 'insane'; it's only a legal definition:

However, in past medical usage 'insanity' referred to severe mental disorders such as bi-polar, schizophrenia and other psychoses where the person was not rational or living in reality.
On the other hand, mental illness runs from mild to severe. OCD is a mental illness but can be mild or severe depending on how negatively it impacts a person's life.

Trump isn't insane, but he does have NPD which is a mental disorder.

SEW you could watch the vid to find the answer yourself.

It's his attempt to look smart for the audience.

You gotta be more skeptical, Trumps main concern is looking smart, I doubt he's got so far as having an opinion one way or the other, he'll just follow his nose.

You would support the VP and the Cabinet were they to make the determination to remove the POTUS, even though they are not mental health professionals. (Or at least you say so, safely knowing full well such will never occur.)

But you steadfastly rail against the warnings of professionals who see, with decades to draw upon, *not so very much less* than the people in Trump's orbit.

Your argument seems almost to be predicated on the notion that Trump just 'yesterday', figuratively speaking, sprung up out of the ground. We all have available to us a remarkably detailed history of this man, what with his need for attention.

Why so wedded to the notion that a professional should never exercise a duty to warn? With a cabal of enablers, opportunists and lackeys who will not take Trump to task, and indeed who actively work to keep him installed in power, then even the last resort of an election may fail.

And knowing Trump would never submit to examination, that only demands a 'remote' assessment, for lack of the preferred mode.

I would support that. Removal is a political process. There is no existing mechanism to remove a President because he is “obviously mentally ill.” Mental illness is not a criteria for either disqualifying a candidate OR removing an elected official.

I rail against the misapplication of medical science and the flouting of medical ethics. No more, mo less.

Not my position at all. We are all familiar with Trump. The voters had all the information they needed to either vote for him or not. They will again in November. The Yale Group didn’t speak out before the election and their subsequent warnings have largely been ignored. Trump may very well win again, despite actually seeing him in action as POTUS. I am not sure what value there is in warnings from medical professionals who aren’t following professional standards or professional ethics.

They should: When they have specific information about a specific, identifiable threat to specific, identifiable individuals. The Yale Group has not provided that. They speak in generalities. This is a political problem, not a medical problem.

There is no situation in medicine in which you substitute an unproven method for a proven method.

Do you also rail against the president's misapplication of what he seems to believe is medical science?

He cannot stop, he cannot help himself. When you understand that you can see all his actions are because he's mentally ill.

In all the Trump threads people in this forum are still saying things like he's doing X for his base.

Sometimes that is true like his pandering to the Evangelicals and hugging the flag. His wall and some of his racism is pandering. I say some because some of it is his own racism.

But the majority of the time Trump is only about Trump. There is no more behind his actions than that.

It's absurd to 'not talk about it as a professional'. It would be disengenious.


You need to reassess your heel digging in here.

Dr Lee is very passionate about her obligation to speak out about Trump. Co-authored with Thomas Singer, MD
Mental Health Experts Urge Revision of the Goldwater Rule - Psychiatrists formally propose revising a highly divisive rule.
BTW, this is not about profiting from the book: There's more but it will have to wait, I can't keep my eyes open.

At this point, all the people who are so insane that they still think Trump isn't should be busy drinking or injecting bleach, trying to come up with ways to expose their lungs to UV light, and maybe topping it off with a bit of hydroxychloroquine for dessert.
However, that appears to be the point where a bit of sanity returns.

Trump says he never got out of first grade:

Now its been a while since I had a child development or abnormal psych class, but this should tell you something.

Quote is from an interview with a biographer in 2015.

Stable genius. :rolleyes:

Actually this fits with his imaginary self: he has always been perfect, fantastic, [fill in more superlatives ad nauseum].

That Trump has a mental illness/disorder is not questionable by anyone who is not deluding himself or just plain stupid. He meets so many of the criteria for NPD that he could be the poster boy for it. We see it on a daily basis. I don't care if he's been formally diagnosed or not because the fact is he would never agree to being evaluated. A doctor doesn't need to SEE a compound fracture in person to diagnose it. All this Goldwater Rule bickering is irrelevant. The man is mentally ill. Period.

I thought Mr. Ed was the stable genius. Trump is back there with the fork.

Doc Gartner weighs in again:
https://www.salon.com/2020/04/25/psy...g-in-sabotage/

Wow.

Practically every recession over the past fifty years has occurred during
Republican administrations hints that they do not care about the economy
despite what the article states.

Take this one with a grain of salt.

Look, the nitwit can't even stand in front of the cameras with a sheepish grin on his face and say, "Injecting disinfectant, did I say that out loud? Ooops, don't do that."

Instead, he blames everyone else, lies about what he said, then goes off and pouts like a six-year-old in the middle of a health crisis when the country needs an actual leader.

He's nuts.

He's also the kind of leader that 40%-45% of the US population seem to like and want - even if only a little over half of those can be bothered to vote for him (then again only a little over half bothered to turn out at all).

President Donald Trump didn't appear from nowhere, he's not the cause, he's merely a symptom of what ails the US (and IMO what also ails the UK, Brazil and other countries).

"This guy is a complete buffoon, but he hates black people like me, so imma vote for him and damn the consequences."

Sure . . . but he's not a doctor. I don't hold him to their standards. I hold him to the standards of an elected official. I find his behavior is dangerous and unethical because he fails to listen to his medical advisors and incorporate their expertise in his thinking. He thinks he's smarter than them and his word is gold. Even so, there is no real ethical code or standard of practice for elected officials. My analysis is just based on what I think our elected officials should do, whereas my analysis of the doctors is based on the standards and ethics of their profession.