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-   -   Continuation Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 3 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341507)

Steve 6th August 2020 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13181866)
A digression: Where did Trump learn to speak as he does? This was somebody who grewRinkage up in great wealth and was educated at exclusive private schools, including a military academy. The people around him didn't speak like that. The people he sought to impress in elite Manhattan real estate circles certainly didn't speak like that. Did he adopt talking like a Jersey garbage truck driver as part of his act?

Brain shrinkage. He has room for a lot less coherent words now.

dann 6th August 2020 01:18 PM

The Sopranos?!
I can also imagine Roy Cohn speaking like that - but not when he was on TV:
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I AGREE

Stacyhs 7th August 2020 02:13 PM

In his heart and black soul he is a Jersey garbage truck driver.

Seriously, he didn't speak like he does now when he was younger. He used to express himself more intelligently and coherently, although I don't think he was ever very intelligent or cared much about learning anything that didn't directly benefit him financially. Now, he just wanders all over the place and seems to say whatever pops into his head using the same basic set of words. I do think he is in mental decline.

jimbob 8th August 2020 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13182989)
In his heart and black soul he is a Jersey garbage truck driver.

Seriously, he didn't speak like he does now when he was younger. He used to express himself more intelligently and coherently, although I don't think he was ever very intelligent or cared much about learning anything that didn't directly benefit him financially. Now, he just wanders all over the place and seems to say whatever pops into his head using the same basic set of words. I do think he is in mental decline.

Do look at Tom Joseph's tweets on this. He was calling Trump's decline in 2017.

Here's one from May
Quote:

Tom Joseph
@TomJChicago
Trump’s posture is the classic frontotemporal dementia stance. Forward leaning, arms down like balancing rods. He’s at risk to jerk & fall backwards. He can’t stand like the ppl next to- hands on hips or in the pockets. He would topple- a good word to describe what he has coming

https://twitter.com/TomJChicago/stat...436744192?s=20

xjx388 8th August 2020 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13183361)
Do look at Tom Joseph's tweets on this. He was calling Trump's decline in 2017.

Here's one from May

https://twitter.com/TomJChicago/stat...436744192?s=20


If he has FTD, he got it very late. It’s a disease that mostly happens much earlier.

So he probably doesn’t have FTD; he’s just getting old and not aging particularly well. Internet doctors tend to throw out a bunch of diagnoses. I believe that’s the diagnostic method taught by the Internet University’s Twitter and Facebook School of Medicine.

jimbob 9th August 2020 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13183676)
If he has FTD, he got it very late. It’s a disease that mostly happens much earlier.

So he probably doesn’t have FTD; he’s just getting old and not aging particularly well. Internet doctors tend to throw out a bunch of diagnoses. I believe that’s the diagnostic method taught by the Internet University’s Twitter and Facebook School of Medicine.


Well Tom Joseph has been calling the timeline pretty well for three years now.

Obviously, it would be good to have a credible medic examine Trump to determine whether he is safe to have The Football, but that doesn't seem likely given the lack of moral fibre in the GOP. You seen to think that it'd be fine for the POTUS to hold office with no medical checks, even if they developed an illness that made them too unfit to possess firearms.

Instead, we have Trump saying that he aced a cognitive test - even the questions that he said were difficult. (They weren't).

Trump has inadvertently pointed out that he struggles with simple cognitive tasks.

Even since then, his performance has got worse.


Do you really think that there's nothing to worry about, given how confused he is now?

Do you really think that he's not going to get worse by November?


ETA: The President is not a private citizen. Where their health impacts their suitability for office, it is a matter of public interest and personal privacy should be superseded.

Bob001 9th August 2020 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13184019)
.....
Do you really think that he's not going to get worse by November?

ETA: The President is a public citizen. Where their health impacts their suitability for office, it is a matter of public interest and personal privacy should be superseded.


Forget by November. Think about what he can do in fits of rage between losing on Nov. 3 and leaving Jan. 20. He will still be President with full powers of office for two and half months.

And a public citizen can be just about anybody. He is the highest public official, responsible to us all.

jimbob 9th August 2020 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13184023)
Forget by November. Think about what he can do in fits of rage between losing on Nov. 3 and leaving Jan. 20. He will still be President with full powers of office for two and half months.

And a public citizen can be just about anybody. He is the highest public official, responsible to us all.

Edited now, thanks

Bob001 9th August 2020 09:41 AM

Trump wants to add his face to Mount Rushmore:
Quote:

Last year, a White House aide asked the office of South Dakota's governor, Kristi Noem, how to add more presidents to Mount Rushmore, The New York Times reported Saturday, citing an anonymous source familiar with the conversation.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...id=mailsignout

No comment required.

dann 9th August 2020 10:48 AM

They can let the Trump Baby balloon hover above Mount Rushmore for as long as it lasts.
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I AGREE

dann 9th August 2020 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13183676)
If he has FTD, he got it very late. It’s a disease that mostly happens much earlier.

So he probably doesn’t have FTD; he’s just getting old and not aging particularly well. Internet doctors tend to throw out a bunch of diagnoses. I believe that’s the diagnostic method taught by the Internet University’s Twitter and Facebook School of Medicine.


Mostly, but not at all unheard of:

Quote:

Although age of onset ranges from 21 to 80, the majority of FTD cases occur between 45 and 64. Therefore, FTD has a substantially greater impact on work, family, and the economic burden faced by families than Alzheimer’s.
How does FTD differ from Alzheimer’s disease? (The Association for Frontotemporal Degeneration)

ETA:
Quote:

On average, it currently takes 3.6 years to get an accurate diagnosis.
So by the end of his next term ...

Bob001 9th August 2020 04:54 PM

A psychiatrist argues that the primary dividing line between people is whether or not they have a conscience:
Quote:

Andrew Lobaczewski was a Polish psychiatrist who observed the brutalisation of Polish society at first hand when Hitler’s Nazis, and then Stalin’s Bolsheviks, forced their violent ideologies on his homeland. What Lobaczewski recognised was that the real division in values and behaviour was not simply between Germans and Russians and Poles, but between people of all nationalities who abhorred the cruelty and violence around them, and those who embraced it. He realised that the fundamental ‘clash of civilisations’ was based on psychology, between a majority of ordinary people and a small but highly influential pathological minority.

“… each society on earth contains a certain percentage of individuals, a relatively small but active minority, who cannot be considered normal,” Lobaczewski wrote. Although statistically small in number, he continued, the quality of difference of such individuals is such that “it can affect hundreds, thousands, even millions of other human beings in negative ways.”

This small but active minority are those who suffer from dangerous personality disorders, namely psychopaths, and those with narcissistic personality disorder and paranoid personality disorder. These disorders render those affected essentially devoid of conscience. And as the psychologist Martha Stout spells out, the presence or absence of conscience is perhaps the deepest human division, arguably more significant than intelligence, race or gender.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/tra...civilisations/

Stacyhs 9th August 2020 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13184663)
A psychiatrist argues that the primary dividing line between people is whether or not they have a conscience:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/tra...civilisations/

Absolutely. Trump belongs to that category as do Putin, the Kims, Bolsonaro, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, virtually all dictators, serial killers, etc. They obtain power and keep it because they are willing to do anything to gain it and to maintain it because they lack a conscience. They only lose power if those around them no longer aid and abet them. We saw that with the GOP Senate in the impeachment when they had the chance to remove Trump and they failed to do so.

Bob001 13th August 2020 01:09 PM

Another interview with Mary Trump:
https://www.salon.com/2020/08/12/mar...e-oval-office/

And another shrink weighs in:
Quote:

I think Trump wants to be a dictator. He would like to be in an autocracy, not a democracy. And that's a direct reflection of his narcissistic and anti-social personality disorder. And that's part of what I'm concerned about. If he were to be re-elected, he would be empowered and emboldened to do what he wants to do. And he would literally push this [country] towards an autocracy and a dictatorial position for himself.
https://www.salon.com/2020/08/13/why...ogies_partner/
https://www.dcreport.org/2020/07/05/...tal-condition/

WilliamSeger 17th August 2020 02:58 PM

Dr. Bandy X. Lee in Conversation with Dr. Mary L. Trump
 
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I AGREE

Stacyhs 17th August 2020 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamSeger (Post 13192625)
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I AGREE

Interesting exchange. I agree completely with them both that a personal interview with Trump is totally unnecessary since there is more than sufficient data available to determine his mental capacity.

Skeptic Ginger 17th August 2020 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamSeger (Post 13192625)
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I AGREE

It's weird to hear "Dr Trump". :p

Stacyhs 17th August 2020 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13192677)
It's weird to hear "Dr Trump". :p

Yeah....it's like a weird oxymoron. 'Doctor' and 'Trump' just don't seem like two words that should go together. Rather like 'Trump' and 'Presidency'.

jeremyp 18th August 2020 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13192970)
Yeah....it's like a weird oxymoron. 'Doctor' and 'Trump' just don't seem like two words that should go together. Rather like 'Trump' and 'Presidency'.

"The doctors came for Trump at midday on January 20th."

That trips off the tongue in a pleasant way.

Bob001 2nd September 2020 01:24 PM

Doc Lee assesses the Repub convention:
Quote:

When lies are of a pathological degree, they may arise from delusions, which means they are resistant to facts and reality—all you will likely do is arouse defensive "doubling down." This is what you see with the growing detachment from reality and embracing of conspiracy theories like QAnon. As evidence of the president's incapacity and criminal-mindedness mounts, increasingly outlandish explanations are necessary to hold onto cherished fixed beliefs: such as that the person one supports is a savior figure who can do no wrong. Donald Trump is masterful at cultivating and stoking this need, since his presidential—or more importantly his psychic—survival depends on it. This level of denial can be dangerous, as challenging it could provoke a lot of violence.
https://www.salon.com/2020/08/29/yal...t-of-violence/

zorro99 11th September 2020 09:33 PM

Clip From ‘Unfit’ Documentary Explores Trump’s ‘Cognitive Decline’ Over Time

“We have someone who is really not functioning cognitively who has the capacity to launch the nuclear codes,” psychologist John Gartner warned.

Josephine Harvey

In a new film unpacking the psychology of Donald Trump, author and psychologist John Gartner says the president demonstrates numerous signs of cognitive deterioration and ties that to grave concerns about Trump’s fitness for the Oval Office.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/unfit...ushpmg00000003

Stacyhs 11th September 2020 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorro99 (Post 13221006)
Clip From ‘Unfit’ Documentary Explores Trump’s ‘Cognitive Decline’ Over Time

“We have someone who is really not functioning cognitively who has the capacity to launch the nuclear codes,” psychologist John Gartner warned.

Josephine Harvey

In a new film unpacking the psychology of Donald Trump, author and psychologist John Gartner says the president demonstrates numerous signs of cognitive deterioration and ties that to grave concerns about Trump’s fitness for the Oval Office.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/unfit...ushpmg00000003

I think this is another reason why he repeats himself so much. He has certain topics and he'll repeat phrases regarding those topics two, three, four times before moving on to the next memorized topic and phrases. He's like a damn tape on a loop.

Ladewig 12th September 2020 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13184019)
Well Tom Joseph has been calling the timeline pretty well for three years now.

Obviously, it would be good to have a credible medic examine Trump to determine whether he is safe to have The Football, but that doesn't seem likely given the lack of moral fibre in the GOP. You seen to think that it'd be fine for the POTUS to hold office with no medical checks, even if they developed an illness that made them too unfit to possess firearms.

Instead, we have Trump saying that he aced a cognitive test - even the questions that he said were difficult. (They weren't).

Trump has inadvertently pointed out that he struggles with simple cognitive tasks.
.

But even if they had the moral fiber, what could they do? It appears that medical confidentiality laws mean that the president can issue a medical press release saying anything he wants and the medical staff cannot contradict him. Even if his physician called in a team of non-partisan psychiatrists, they couldn’t legally approach the cabinet and say that it is time to draft a 25th Amendment letter.

Bob001 12th September 2020 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladewig (Post 13221060)
But even if they had the moral fiber, what could they do? It appears that medical confidentiality laws mean that the president can issue a medical press release saying anything he wants and the medical staff cannot contradict him. Even if his physician called in a team of non-partisan psychiatrists, they couldn’t legally approach the cabinet and say that it is time to draft a 25th Amendment letter.


For one thing, his doctors are federal employees, so they have a loyalty to the Constitution that may (or at least should) override their obligations to their patient. That goes back to "a duty to warn." For another, the president could waive confidentiality in the public interest. When Reagan was shot, and later when he had colon surgery, there were practically minute-by-minute medical reports, including x-rays and diagrams. Nobody said "Oh, that's private."
https://www.nytimes.com/1987/01/05/u...n-s-colon.html

And medical confidentiality laws and practices don't always apply. The AMA says

Quote:

Physicians may disclose personal health information without the specific consent of the patient (or authorized surrogate when the patient lacks decision-making capacity):

(c) To other health care personnel for purposes of providing care or for health care operations; or

(d) To appropriate authorities when disclosure is required by law.

(e) To other third parties situated to mitigate the threat when in the physician’s judgment there is a reasonable probability that:

The patient will seriously harm him/herself.

The patient will inflict serious physical harm on an identifiable individual or individuals.


The real sticking point is that Trump would never submit to a psychiatric examination. But his doctors could still make judgments and recommendations based on his observed speech and behavior.

Mojo 12th September 2020 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13184019)
Well Tom Joseph has been calling the timeline pretty well for three years now.

Obviously, it would be good to have a credible medic examine Trump to determine whether he is safe to have The Football...


I’m not actually prepared to believe that he has The Football. If I did, I’d be spending all my money on whisky.

Stacyhs 12th September 2020 11:56 AM

If Trump wins in Nov., I'm seriously considering a personal ban on watching national news in order to save my own sanity.

Ladewig 13th September 2020 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13221328)
For one thing, his doctors are federal employees, so they have a loyalty to the Constitution that may (or at least should) override their obligations to their patient. That goes back to "a duty to warn." For another, the president could waive confidentiality in the public interest. When Reagan was shot, and later when he had colon surgery, there were practically minute-by-minute medical reports, including x-rays and diagrams. Nobody said "Oh, that's private."
https://www.nytimes.com/1987/01/05/u...n-s-colon.html

And medical confidentiality laws and practices don't always apply. The AMA says


The real sticking point is that Trump would never submit to a psychiatric examination. But his doctors could still make judgments and recommendations based on his observed speech and behavior.

But Trump wouldn’t voluntarily sign anything about releasing information to his cabinet (as Reagan did).

And the catching point would be “identifiable individuals.” Trump would certainly bring a lawsuit against the doctor(s) and the associated claim that there were identified individuals under the threat of serious harm.

But even if the president did sign a HIPAA waiver, the hurdle that we would never clear is that a 25A letter requires the vice president’s signature. Mike Pence would sooner follow Mark chapter 9 (it is better to cut off your hand than to allow your hand to commit sin) than sign that letter.

Ladewig 13th September 2020 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13221349)
If Trump wins in Nov., I'm seriously considering a personal ban on watching national news in order to save my own sanity.

Well, that approach does have one advantage. If the Emergency Alert System went off and I saw missiles reigning down on the country I wouldn’t have to live in a post-apocalyptic dystopia because I’d die from curiosity wondering whether they were Russian H-bombs or US H-bombs.

dann 13th September 2020 08:38 AM

Don't dis Jong-un! :)

alfaniner 13th September 2020 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13221349)
If Trump wins in Nov., I'm seriously considering a personal ban on watching national news in order to save my own sanity.

I don't know how I could cope with another four years of that without having a serious breakdown myself.

xjx388 16th September 2020 10:23 AM

Just for balance:

There are 3 local Family Medicine physicians, who I know quite well who are speaking out in much the same terms as the Yale Group used, warning people that Biden has dementia and thus is unfit for office. While it's hard for me, being a known figure in the medical community here (manage a clinic, married to a Family Medicine physician), to argue as vehemently as I do here, I have publicly responded to their social media posts. I have said that they can't possibly make such a diagnosis because they've never met Joe Biden. They respond with the same, "there's plenty of video evidence so I can diagnose him just fine," nonsense I find here.

Is this what we want?

Stacyhs 16th September 2020 11:42 AM

Are they Trump supporters? Are they watching doctored videos that Trump retweets?

ETA: I'd like a link to their social media.

xjx388 16th September 2020 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13225357)
Are they Trump supporters? Are they watching doctored videos that Trump retweets?

ETA: I'd like a link to their social media.


They haven’t been vocal about their Trump support so I don’t know. I assume so because they are basically diagnosing Biden and calling his fitness into question, yet stayed very quiet about Trump.

I’m not going to link to them because 1)I don’t want to give any more clues to my identity than I already have and 2) I don’t want to be the cause of their pages being inundated. Not that I think any current poster here would make trouble for me IRL or initiate a campaign against them or anything, but early on in my career here, I had an issue with one particular poster (since banned) who made a bit of an issue for my wife and I. Plus the general public can access these posts.

Bob001 16th September 2020 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13225189)
Just for balance:

There are 3 local Family Medicine physicians, who I know quite well who are speaking out in much the same terms as the Yale Group used, warning people that Biden has dementia and thus is unfit for office. While it's hard for me, being a known figure in the medical community here (manage a clinic, married to a Family Medicine physician), to argue as vehemently as I do here, I have publicly responded to their social media posts. I have said that they can't possibly make such a diagnosis because they've never met Joe Biden. They respond with the same, "there's plenty of video evidence so I can diagnose him just fine," nonsense I find here.
.....

They can claim anything they want, but they would be hard put to actually point to any such video evidence, unlike for Trump.

Stacyhs 16th September 2020 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13225430)
They haven’t been vocal about their Trump support so I don’t know. I assume so because they are basically diagnosing Biden and calling his fitness into question, yet stayed very quiet about Trump.

I’m not going to link to them because 1)I don’t want to give any more clues to my identity than I already have and 2) I don’t want to be the cause of their pages being inundated. Not that I think any current poster here would make trouble for me IRL or initiate a campaign against them or anything, but early on in my career here, I had an issue with one particular poster (since banned) who made a bit of an issue for my wife and I. Plus the general public can access these posts.

Fair points. And I'd bet they are Trump supporters if they're vocal about Biden but say nothing about Trump.

xjx388 16th September 2020 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13225491)
They can claim anything they want, but they would be hard put to actually point to any such video evidence, unlike for Trump.

They post plenty of video evidence of his many verbal stumbles.

Stacyhs 16th September 2020 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13225579)
They post plenty of video evidence of his many verbal stumbles.

And how many of those can be attributed to his stuttering? Or to normal verbal stumbles that we all do? How about copying some of those here?

ETA: Repeating oneself is more a sign of dementia than verbal stumbles. Know anyone who repeats himself all the time?

xjx388 16th September 2020 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13225585)
And how many of those can be attributed to his stuttering? Or to normal verbal stumbles that we all do? How about copying some of those here?

ETA: Repeating oneself is more a sign of dementia than verbal stumbles. Know anyone who repeats himself all the time?

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c49039...eak-pittsburgh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VimRBSj6kjA
Aside from the Harris-Biden mix-up, they point out his speech patterns and the fact that he forgot which side his coat pocket was on.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c48903...uestions-obama
They say he loses his train of thought and needed a list of predetermined questions to help him get questions he had been prepped on.

There's a few more but most stuff has been on this forum in one form or another. But the point isn't whether or not they are right in their assessment of Biden or whether or not Biden is actually in mental decline for whatever reason, but whether or not they should be donning their white coats to make their assessments as professionals. Do you think they should?

Bob001 16th September 2020 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13225634)
.....
There's a few more but most stuff has been on this forum in one form or another. But the point isn't whether or not they are right in their assessment of Biden or whether or not Biden is actually in mental decline for whatever reason, but whether or not they should be donning their white coats to make their assessments as professionals. Do you think they should?

Yes. Psychiatric disorders are largely diagnosed by speech, thoughts and behavior. There's no blood test for narcissism or dementia. I don't think there's much evidence against Biden's mental fitness, certainly not the mountain that there is against Trump. There's zero evidence that Biden rejects basic science or lacks understanding of the core principles of good government or tells massive lies that defy common sense even after he has been corrected. I don't know what specialties your pals are in, but no psychiatrist or psychologist has publicly concluded that Biden has a problem, unlike the countless experts who have come out against Trump.

It's another case of false equivalence; "Trump's no worse than the other guy." That's just not true.

Stacyhs 16th September 2020 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13225634)


Ah...but you're only seeing the part he wants you because it makes Biden looks like he's lost it which he actually hasn't. Here's the rest of what Biden says in bold:

Quote:

Do you really feel safer under Donald Trump? COVID has taken this year, just since the outbreak, has taken more than 100… Look, the lives, when you think about it, more lives this year than any other year for the past 100 years. More than 180,000 lives in just six months, an average of 1,000 people dying every day in the month of August. Do you really feel safe under Donald Trump?
You can tell where his stutter starts to kick in and he has to stop and rethink how he's going say it. I've highlighted it in blue.

Quote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VimRBSj6kjA
Aside from the Harris-Biden mix-up, they point out his speech patterns and the fact that he forgot which side his coat pocket was on.
OMG! He said "Harris/Biden" instead of "Biden/Harris"! Holy Crap. They'd better put me in a home because I call my dog Lilly "Maggie" and Maggie "Lilly" all the time. Hell, I even call them Lucy and Molly sometimes....and those two have been dead for years. And forgot which side his pocket was on? MOTHER OF GOD! All I can say is if those three doctors think these are signs of dementia, the medical board should take a look at THEM because I don't want them making any decisions about MY care.

Quote:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c48903...uestions-obama
They say he loses his train of thought and needed a list of predetermined questions to help him get questions he had been prepped on.
They say? LOL Who are "they"? The same "they" Trump says begin sentences with "Sir"?

Quote:

There's a few more but most stuff has been on this forum in one form or another. But the point isn't whether or not they are right in their assessment of Biden or whether or not Biden is actually in mental decline for whatever reason, but whether or not they should be donning their white coats to make their assessments as professionals. Do you think they should?
I think they should say whatever they want. If they want to make fools of themselves as family practitioners and put that kind of crap up as evidence of of Biden's 'dementia' I have no problem with it. It would just give me the heads up to avoid them as doctors if I lived in that area.


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