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-   -   Continuation Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 3 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341507)

Bob001 17th September 2021 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13602198)
Except he doesn't, as the controversy over Woodward's claimed deathbed confession of William Casey shows.

That's one specific conversation from almost 35 years ago. Got anything else?

W.D.Clinger 17th September 2021 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13602200)
Quote:

Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger (Post 13602168)
Stachyhs is confused about the meanings of the words "principle" and "principal", but is not confused about the events—although it is entirely possible Ziggurat, channeling Kellyanne Conway, is saying "version of events" when he/she means "alternative events".
.

No, I am not. I used "principle" correctly and not "principal". That was Lurch.http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post13601891


Quote:

Originally Posted by carlitos (Post 13602203)
At your link, Lurch correctly called the people in the room "principals." "Principles" can't issue refutations, because they are abstract concepts, not people.


As carlitos noted, Lurch used the word "principal" correctly. You, Stacyhs, used the word "principle" incorrectly.

Stacyhs 17th September 2021 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13602198)
Except he doesn't, as the controversy over Woodward's claimed deathbed confession of William Casey shows.

You mean this incident?

Quote:


CIA Director William Casey’s deathbed scene


Woodward claimed in his book “Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA 1981-1987” that Casey admitted on his deathbed that he had known about the diversion of Iran arms sale money to the Contras.

But Casey’s daughter, Bernadette Casey Smith, claimed that Woodward “never got the deathbed confession,” according to the Houston Chronicle. In addition, Kevin Shipp, a member of Casey’s security detail, asserted in a self-published memoir that none of the agents standing guard over the Casey allowed Woodward into his hospital room at Georgetown University Hospital, and that in any case the former CIA director was not able to talk at the time Woodward cited.

In his defense, Woodward quotes William Donnelly, head of CIA administration, who said “Woodward probably found a way to sneak in,” and argues that the guards weren’t there 24/7 at the time.
So we have Bob Woodward, 2X Pulitzer Prize winner, vs. Casey's daughter, whose motive would be to protect her father's reputation and wasn't at his bedside 24/7, and a "self-published memoir" by a guy who claimed the guards, who weren't there 24/7, didn't let Woodward in and that Casey couldn't speak at the time. But that isn't true either:

Quote:

In addition, Kessler reported in his 2003 book "The CIA at War," any assertion that the CIA director “could not speak” at the time Woodward entered his room is mistaken.

“When I saw him in the hospital,” Robert Gates, Casey's deputy at the time, told Kessler, “his speech was even more slurred than usual, but if you knew him well, you could make out a few words, enough to get a sense of what he was saying. I briefed him on developments at the agency and the White House."

Gates related basically the same version in his own, 1996 memoir, “From the Shadows: The Ultimate Insider's Story of Five Presidents and How They Won the Cold War.”

But a number of CIA people, including Casey’s widow Sofia, still cannot bring themselves to believe Woodward’s account, if only because the CIA chief so fiercely advocated sending leakers to jail.
Quote:

But as both Woodward and Kessler point out, the CIA’s own internal records show that Casey talked with Woodward 43 times, either in person or on the phone, while the reporter was working on “Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA, 1981-87.”
Alex, I'll take "Who is more credible?" for a true double jeopardy.

Stacyhs 17th September 2021 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlitos (Post 13602203)
At your link, Lurch correctly called the people in the room "principals." "Principles" can't issue refutations, because they are abstract concepts, not people.

You are absolutely correct. Mea maxima culpa. Brain fart. It happens to us oldies but goodies. Color me :o


Quote:

Originally Posted by carlitos (Post 13602203)
As for allegations about Trump's mental health from those around him ... I was reminded of these tidbits recently - from his communications directors, Secretary of State, etc.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...50abcb4b02.jpg

Working with Trump is “like trying to figure out what a child wants”
—White House deputy chief of staff Katie Walsh

“The White House has become an adult day care center”
—Republican senator Bob Corker of Tennessee

“Morally unfit to be president,” “unethical” and “untethered to truth”
—former FBI director James Comey, who also compared the US president to a mafia boss.

“Less a person than a collection of terrible traits”
—Trump’s former chief economic adviser Gary Cohn.

“Someone who “sucks up and ***** down”
—former Fox News chief and confidant Roger Ailes.

Additionally:
Quote:

“A supreme sexist.”—Barbara Res, former executive vice-president of Trump Organization, who also said “he thinks he’s God.”

“Like an 11-year-old child”— Steve Bannon. The now estranged advisor also allegedly complained that he was “sick of being a wet nurse to a 71-year-old man.”

Tom Barrack, Friend and supporter,: "not only crazy, […] stupid"

Gary Cohh, Economic advisor: "an idiot surrounded by clowns"

H R McMaster, National security advisor: “An idiot [with the intelligence of] a kindergartener”

Sam Nunberg, Advisor: "this idiot"

Steve Mnuchin, Treasury Secretary: "an idiot"

Reince Preibus, Chief of Staff: "an idiot"

Stacyhs 17th September 2021 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger (Post 13602235)

Yes, which I have acknowledged. :o

My ego is not such that I cannot admit when I'm wrong. Facts is facts. (Yes, I know it's "are".:p)

Craig4 17th September 2021 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13602204)
But he's unwilling to back it up either. Why not?

Because he's on the downhill slide of his four year term with no place to go but retirement. He doesn't have to pander to the petty complaints and false pearl clutching of the filthy Trumptrash who tried to steal our election and betrayed their nation. He said what he needed to and wanted to say to Woodward. He doesn't have to demean his office by humoring the traitors, people who aren't even Americans.

Stacyhs 17th September 2021 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13602204)
But he's unwilling to back it up either. Why not?

He has through his spokesman:

Quote:

In a written statement, Milley’s spokesman, Col. Dave Butler, said Milley acted within his authority as the most senior uniformed adviser to the president and to the secretary of defense.

“His calls with the Chinese and others in October and January were in keeping with these duties and responsibilities conveying reassurance in order to maintain strategic stability,” Butler said. “All calls from the chairman to his counterparts, including those reported, are staffed, coordinated and communicated with the Department of Defense and the interagency.”
Quote:

In the statement Wednesday, Milley’s spokesman said Milley had conferred with the senior officers about nuclear weapons protocols “to remind uniformed leaders in the Pentagon of the long-established and robust procedures in light of media reporting on the subject.” Butler, the spokesman, appeared to be referring to news reports of the Jan. 8 Milley-Pelosi phone call.

whoanellie 17th September 2021 04:55 PM

This just happened to come up on my Twitter feed:
https://slate.com/culture/2013/03/bo...r-scandal.html

It's a take on the accuracy of Woodward's Wired his book about Belushi. It's a very interesting read.

Bob001 17th September 2021 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoanellie (Post 13602297)
This just happened to come up on my Twitter feed:
https://slate.com/culture/2013/03/bo...r-scandal.html

It's a take on the accuracy of Woodward's Wired his book about Belushi. It's a very interesting read.


Not making excuses for Woodward, but the criticism there is that he gets the facts right, but interprets them in ways that others find misleading:
Quote:

Wired is an infuriating piece of work. There’s a reason Woodward’s critics consistently come off as hysterical ninnies: He doesn’t make Jonah Lehrer–level mistakes. There’s never a smoking gun like an outright falsehood or a brazen ethical breach. And yet, in the final product, a lot of what Woodward writes comes off as being not quite right—some of it to the point where it can feel quite wrong. There’s no question that he frequently ferrets out information that other reporters don’t. But getting the scoop is only part of the equation. Once you have the facts, you have to present those facts in context and in proportion to other facts in order to accurately reflect reality. It’s here that Woodward fails.
Belushi's friends saw him as a funny, smart, talented, lovable guy and they wanted to see him portrayed that way. Woodward focused on the life-long drug addictions that killed him. As a Yale-educated ex-naval officer and son of a state judge, Woodward likely brought his own prejudices and narrow life experience to his subject. Maybe Woodward short-changed Belushi and his friends. But what's most relevant here is that one of his most outspoken critics admits that Woodward gets the facts right.

Stacyhs 20th September 2021 02:08 PM

How detached from reality does a person have to be to send this letter when that person is literally under investigation for "attempts to influence the administration of the 2020 Georgia general election"?


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8f824d80bf.jpg

carlitos 20th September 2021 02:15 PM

Does he get to use the Presidential seal on stationary, or is that a lookalike seal?

Stacyhs 20th September 2021 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlitos (Post 13605041)
Does he get to use the Presidential seal on stationary, or is that a lookalike seal?

As a former POTUS, yes.

Bob001 20th September 2021 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13605049)
As a former POTUS, yes.


Only for official correspondence, not political or commercial purposes.
Quote:

A criminal complaint has been filed against Donald Trump’s Bedminster golf club, charging the facility with misusing the presidential seal.

Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a watchdog group and frequent critic of the former president, filed the complaint with the U.S. Justice Department after an Instagram photo showed the seal on a tee marker at the golf course.

Federal law prohibits the use of the seal to give “a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States,” CREW said in its complaint. Trump lost the Nov. 3 election to Joe Biden.
https://www.nj.com/politics/2021/08/...aint-says.html

It actually appears that Trump has designed his own seal.
https://copyrightlately.com/trump-office-great-seal/

Stacyhs 20th September 2021 10:47 PM

Thanks for more detail on the use of the seal, Bob001.

As regarding the question from Carlitos, Trump is entitled to use it as long as Trump’s “'Office of the Former President'continues to recognize that he’s the former president and doesn’t falsely suggest that he’s the current president, its use of the seal shouldn’t run afoul of the law” as your link states.

varwoche 21st September 2021 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13602026)
... If Haspel actually thought that [risk of coup], then she's an idiot.

Musings from an alternate universe. A universe where a coup attempt didn't subsequently occur.

Stacyhs 27th September 2021 02:20 AM

I ran across the video by an attorney who teaches people how to deal with narcissists. Sound familiar?

Ten Things Narcissists Do to Make Themselves Appear Smarter

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Darat 27th September 2021 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13611290)
I ran across the video by an attorney who teaches people how to deal with narcissists. Sound familiar?

Ten Things Narcissists Do to Make Themselves Appear Smarter

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Number 11 - make annoying Youtube videos about how they are smarter than narcissists....

Ladewig 27th September 2021 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13605030)
How detached from reality does a person have to be to send this letter when that person is literally under investigation for "attempts to influence the administration of the 2020 Georgia general election"?


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8f824d80bf.jpg

I don’t think this should be a rhetorical question that can be passed over.
While I cannot claim that his letter a sign of mental illness, I am comfortable saying it is a sign that he should talk to mental health professionals for an evaluation.

Delvo 27th September 2021 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13605358)
Trump is entitled to use it as long as Trump’s “'Office of the Former President'continues to recognize that he’s the former president and doesn’t falsely suggest that he’s the current president, its use of the seal shouldn’t run afoul of the law” as your link states.

The giant box at the top of the letter calls him the President.

JoeMorgue 27th September 2021 11:40 AM

Let's be honest though.

If Donald Trump is legit mentally ill doesn't it mean that ~40% of the voting population is as well? Where does that put us?

Stacyhs 27th September 2021 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13611324)
Number 11 - make annoying Youtube videos about how they are smarter than narcissists....

I don't get your point. Do you think the lawyer who made the video is a narcissist?

Stacyhs 27th September 2021 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delvo (Post 13611742)
The giant box at the top of the letter calls him the President.

This is where it gets tricky because he is using the title and, through his claim that he really won the election, it could be argued that he is presenting himself as THE president and not as a former president. This would get into the legalities that a court would have to decide.

Stacyhs 27th September 2021 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13611743)
Let's be honest though.

If Donald Trump is legit mentally ill doesn't it mean that ~40% of the voting population is as well? Where does that put us?

As Dr. Bandy Lee said:
Quote:

What attracts people to Trump? What is their animus or driving force?

The reasons are multiple and varied, but in my recent public-service book, Profile of a Nation, I have outlined two major emotional drives: narcissistic symbiosis and shared psychosis. Narcissistic symbiosis refers to the developmental wounds that make the leader-follower relationship magnetically attractive. The leader, hungry for adulation to compensate for an inner lack of self-worth, projects grandiose omnipotence—while the followers, rendered needy by societal stress or developmental injury, yearn for a parental figure. When such wounded individuals are given positions of power, they arouse similar pathology in the population that creates a “lock and key” relationship.

“Shared psychosis”—which is also called “folie à millions” [“madness for millions”] when occurring at the national level or “induced delusions”—refers to the infectiousness of severe symptoms that goes beyond ordinary group psychology. When a highly symptomatic individual is placed in an influential position, the person’s symptoms can spread through the population through emotional bonds, heightening existing pathologies and inducing delusions, paranoia and propensity for violence—even in previously healthy individuals. The treatment is removal of exposure.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...his-loyalists/

The rest of the interview is very interesting, too.

Darat 27th September 2021 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13611754)
I don't get your point. Do you think the lawyer who made the video is a narcissist?

Well she portrays many of the behaviours she claims narcissists exhibit.

Stacyhs 27th September 2021 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13611814)
Well she portrays many of the behaviours she claims narcissists exhibit.

How so? I also don't think she is just "claiming" these behaviors are narcissistic as they are also included in the DSM IV-V check list for narcissism.

Stacyhs 1st October 2021 07:36 PM

The more of Peril I read, the more it demonstrates that Trump is an emotional five year old in a septuagenarian's body. He really never progressed beyond that emotional age. In the WH, he was basically concerned with two thing:

1) how did it affect his poll numbers and
2) did something make him look weak or strong.

It was all, me, me, me, me.

LondonJohn 4th October 2021 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delvo (Post 13611742)
The giant box at the top of the letter calls him the President.


Not to send things off on a tangent.... but custom and practice (at least within the past 60 years or so) has it that any former US president a) should be referred to as "President XYZ" and b) is entitled to term himself* "President XYZ". Even Nixon.


* Obv "herself" would/will be applicable in the event of a female POTUS

Stacyhs 4th October 2021 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LondonJohn (Post 13619671)
Not to send things off on a tangent.... but custom and practice (at least within the past 60 years or so) has it that any former US president a) should be referred to as "President XYZ" and b) is entitled to term himself* "President XYZ". Even Nixon.


* Obv "herself" would/will be applicable in the event of a female POTUS

Yep...as long as they don't present themselves as the 'current' president and use the Great Seal "a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, they can.

Bob001 10th October 2021 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LondonJohn (Post 13619671)
Not to send things off on a tangent.... but custom and practice (at least within the past 60 years or so) has it that any former US president a) should be referred to as "President XYZ" and b) is entitled to term himself* "President XYZ". Even Nixon.
....

It's pretty standard across the board to refer to people by the last government title they held. The TV military commentators are introduced as "Gen. So-and-So." An ambassador is always an ambassador. Hillary Clinton is Madame Secretary. We have President Carter, President Bush and President Obama. But they're courtesy titles. They don't carry any weight or authority.

Bob001 10th October 2021 01:37 PM

The writer argues that "the Trump effect" has made America crazy.
Quote:

Trumpism is both a political cult and a manifestation of collective narcissism. Tens of millions of his followers now live in an alternate reality sustained by the Big Lie, an upside-down world in which Donald Trump is still the "real" president of the United States. Many of Trump's followers believe that he should be returned to power by any means available, including terrorism and political violence.

The Trump regime and Republican policies more generally have literally caused trauma — physical, emotional, psychological and spiritual — for millions of Americans, including of course the deaths of at least 700,000 people in the coronavirus pandemic.
https://www.salon.com/2021/10/10/wha...-nothing-good/

Norman Alexander 10th October 2021 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13619716)
Yep...as long as they don't present themselves as the 'current' president and use the Great Seal "a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, they can.

The same way retired admirals can still be addressed as "Admiral", but they don't have command of a Navy fleet.

Stacyhs 11th October 2021 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13625248)
The writer argues that "the Trump effect" has made America crazy.

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/10/wha...-nothing-good/

I totally agree. It's just as Dr. Bandy Lee said: a shared psychosis.

dudalb 12th October 2021 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13625248)
The writer argues that "the Trump effect" has made America crazy.

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/10/wha...-nothing-good/

I would say political upheavel and violence worse then anything we have seen since the Civil War would not be good for mental health.
Which I am convinced is what would happen in a second Trump adminsitration. if anything the author of this piece is softballing what would happen.

jimbob 19th October 2021 12:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Perfectly normal

Attachment 45553

Norman Alexander 19th October 2021 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13633474)
Perfectly normal

Attachment 45553

Did none of his "staff" check this before it went out???

Crossbow 19th October 2021 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13633606)
Did none of his "staff" check this before it went out???

Oh! I am sure that they did look it over.

And after they reviewed it, all of them said something like "Sir! This is best condolence message in the entire history of the universe and you were the one who wrote it and only a very stable genius like you could have written such a wonderful statement!".

carlitos 19th October 2021 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13633606)
Did none of his "staff" check this before it went out???

This horrible Liz Harrington person puts these things out on Twitter with her name attached. I hope that she's financially set for life, because there ain't no PR or communications job for her in the private sector. Tobacco company flak, maybe.

Norman Alexander 19th October 2021 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlitos (Post 13633692)
This horrible Liz Harrington person puts these things out on Twitter with her name attached. I hope that she's financially set for life, because there ain't no PR or communications job for her in the private sector. Tobacco company flak, maybe.

Isn't she violating Twitter rules or something posting a banned user's stuff on their behalf?

Quote:

You can’t circumvent a Twitter suspension by operating, or having someone else operate on your behalf, an account which represents your identity, persona, brand or business persona for a different purpose.
https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-an...es/ban-evasion

Stacyhs 19th October 2021 06:29 PM

Even in Powell's death, Trump can't help but make it all about himself.

As for his question as to whether he'll be treated thusly by the media, let's just hope we have an answer to that soon. Real soon.

kevbo 19th October 2021 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13633851)
Even in Powell's death, Trump can't help but make it all about himself.



As for his question as to whether he'll be treated thusly by the media, let's just hope we have an answer to that soon. Real soon.

I posted this in another thread, but it fits here also.

I never wanted Trump to die while in office, because I didn't want him to be martyred. Now, I could care less if the big city bus of life ran him down. Just sayin'.

I do like the suggestion above/or in another tread of maybe drafting hypothetical obituaries for him, and leaking them to social media. Anything that still brings him pain, brings me joy. I am probably not a nice person anymore.


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