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-   -   Therapist says if you're an atheist you should lie to your kids about God. (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341296)

DOC 1st January 2020 12:16 AM

Therapist says if you're an atheist you should lie to your kids about God.
 
The therapist in the below cited article believes that if you don't believe in God or heaven you should lie to your kids (about God) to promote better mental health.

From an article in the Christian Post by Leonardo Blair

"...I am often asked by parents, ‘How do I talk to my child about death if I don’t believe in God or Heaven?’ My answer is always the same: ‘Lie.’ The idea that you simply die and turn to dust may work for some adults, but it doesn’t help children. Belief in Heaven helps them grapple with this tremendous and incomprehensible loss. In an age of broken families, distracted parents, school violence and nightmarish global-warming predictions, imagination plays a big part in children’s ability to cope,” said Komisar, who is Jewish...

https://www.christianpost.com/news/p...pist-says.html

Mojo 1st January 2020 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12939805)
The therapist in the below cited article believes that if you don't believe in God or heaven you should lie to your kids (about God) to promote better mental health.

From an article in the Christian Post by Leonardo Blair

"...I am often asked by parents, ‘How do I talk to my child about death if I don’t believe in God or Heaven?’ My answer is always the same: ‘Lie.’ The idea that you simply die and turn to dust may work for some adults, but it doesn’t help children. Belief in Heaven helps them grapple with this tremendous and incomprehensible loss. In an age of broken families, distracted parents, school violence and nightmarish global-warming predictions, imagination plays a big part in children’s ability to cope,” said Komisar, who is Jewish...

https://www.christianpost.com/news/p...pist-says.html


If you were an atheist, would you lie to us about God for the same reason?

catsmate 1st January 2020 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12939805)
<snip>]

So what? God is still a myth.

Vixen 1st January 2020 07:01 AM

What a lot of nonsense.

Quote:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 KJV

The prerequisite to everlasting life is belief.

bluesjnr 1st January 2020 07:07 AM

I don't see the harm in it, just like there's no harm in promoting the existence of Santa or the Tooth Fairy . If you bring your kids up as best you can and encourage enquiring minds, then they'll form their own conclusions pretty quickly.

RoboTimbo 1st January 2020 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12939805)
The therapist in the below cited article believes that if you don't believe in God or heaven you should lie to your kids (about God) to promote better mental health.

Which gods should you tell your children to believe in?

Quote:

From an article in the Christian Post by Leonardo Blair
That explains it.

I would have said that if you're foolish enough to believe in gods, please don't lie to your children. Let them know you're a fool.

Christians prefer lies, atheists prefer truth.

8enotto 1st January 2020 07:50 AM

I found that faking like a believer at times and misleading therapist types nets greater results.

They really don't need to know how I believe as there is no reason to change.

Are there really weak atheists that go to a christian therapist for advice on raising thier kids?
Only from a site that exists to promote religious belief. I smell propaganda machines in the distance.

bruto 1st January 2020 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesjnr (Post 12939934)
I don't see the harm in it, just like there's no harm in promoting the existence of Santa or the Tooth Fairy . If you bring your kids up as best you can and encourage enquiring minds, then they'll form their own conclusions pretty quickly.

True up to a point, but I know some kids whose conclusions thus formed would include that their parents were liars and that their advice was unreliable.

Kids are subjected to all sorts of lies and myths and confusing cultural customs at school and elsewhere. I figured with my kids that it would be nice if, in all that mess there was someone they could trust. You don't have to ram anything home, or squash beliefs they pick up, but if they ask I think they deserve honest answers. Seemed to work for mine anyway. THey all grew up and seem to be doing all right.

bluesjnr 1st January 2020 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 12939969)
True up to a point, but I know some kids whose conclusions thus formed would include that their parents were liars and that their advice was unreliable.

Kids are subjected to all sorts of lies and myths and confusing cultural customs at school and elsewhere. I figured with my kids that it would be nice if, in all that mess there was someone they could trust. You don't have to ram anything home, or squash beliefs they pick up, but if they ask I think they deserve honest answers. Seemed to work for mine anyway. THey all grew up and seem to be doing all right.

Also true. With mine, he was given both sides of the coin, mixed in with whatever he picked up at school and from various friends (and his Catholic mother).

He's doing OK as is his satanic cult.

(JK)

sackett 1st January 2020 08:08 AM

The rapist says you should lie to your kids sex.

DOC 1st January 2020 09:33 AM

Quote:
...From an article in the Christian Post by Leonardo Blair...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo (Post 12939959)

...That explains it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8enotto (Post 12939963)
...Are there really weak atheists that go to a christian therapist for advice on raising thier kids?
Only from a site that exists to promote religious belief. I smell propaganda machines in the distance.

Actually it's irrelevant what type of magazine or website the article is in since the article is reporting on the beliefs of a Jewish licensed Psychoanalyst.

Wolrab 1st January 2020 09:38 AM

He's licensed by Jews?

RoboTimbo 1st January 2020 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940042)
Quote:
...From an article in the Christian Post by Leonardo Blair...



Actually it's irrelevant what type of magazine or website the article is in since the article is reporting on the beliefs of a Jewish licensed Psychoanalyst.

Actually, it's very relevant. You didn't answer the question: Which gods should atheists lie about the existence of to their children?

Darat 1st January 2020 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo (Post 12940048)
Actually, it's very relevant. You didn't answer the question: Which gods should atheists lie about the existence of to their children?

If he is Jewish one would assume the big Y guy not the J guy.

DOC 1st January 2020 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo (Post 12940048)
Actually, it's very relevant. You didn't answer the question: Which gods should atheists lie about the existence of to their children?

One could argue if the parents spoke of a Christian God they wouldn't be lying since Bart Ehrman said Jesus certainly existed and Christians believe Christ is part of the Godhead (Trinity) or as some say God in the flesh.

Darat 1st January 2020 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940093)
One could argue if the parents spoke of a Christian God they wouldn't be lying since Bart Ehrman said Jesus certainly existed and Christians believe Christ is part of the Godhead (Trinity) or as some say God in the flesh.

That is a non sequitur, if a person called "Jesus" existed that kicked of the entire Christian religion it does not mean that he was or is a god.

bluesjnr 1st January 2020 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo (Post 12940048)
Actually, it's very relevant. You didn't answer the question: Which gods should atheists lie about the existence of to their children?

Does it matter, it's a white lie at worst.

DOC 1st January 2020 11:04 AM

Quote: ...Which gods should atheists lie about the existence of to their children?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940093)
One could argue if the parents spoke of a Christian God they wouldn't be lying since Bart Ehrman said Jesus certainly existed and Christians believe Christ is part of the Godhead (Trinity) or as some say God in the flesh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 12940096)
That is a non sequitur, if a person called "Jesus" existed that kicked of the entire Christian religion it does not mean that he was or is a god.

But at least there is some historical evidence that he was God, so even though the parents might believe they were lying, there is some evidence that what they said was truthful if they were talking about the Christian God. The parents and many others believe they don't have proof he is God but there is some evidence he is God. I've talked about that evidence in several threads.

Mojo 1st January 2020 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940144)
But at least there is some historical evidence that he was God...


Such as?

RecoveringYuppy 1st January 2020 11:19 AM

What other things do you recommend lying about DOC?

ynot 1st January 2020 11:54 AM

I question the quality of the mental health of anyone that claims lies promote better mental health.

The rapist says if you're not a rapist you should lie to your kids about consensual sex (to promote the interests of the rapist).

sackett 1st January 2020 12:10 PM

DOC ole boy, you were comprehensively refuted here years ago. There's just as much evidence for Odin's godhead as for Jesus's. Or for Krshna -- who brings a mighty train of poetry with him, something you can't say for your dazed chrrrristanism.

And you learned nothing from the long trouncing your arguments got. I suspect that you've even grown more stubbornly ignorant during the time you've been gone. How would you convince me otherwise?


Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove incivility

bruto 1st January 2020 12:32 PM

Of course people (including children) vary a lot, but I would contend that if parents intend to lie they are lying even if by some odd chance their lies turn out to come true.

I think if we aren't sure, we should say we're not sure. We don't need to volunteer embarrassing information, and don't need to get all hung up on categorical imperatives, but I think we should at least try to tell the truth.

ynot 1st January 2020 12:32 PM

The OP is essentially saying “Lying works so well for us theists we think atheists should lie as well”.

Why is it always “Grandma is in heaven” and it’s never “Odds are Grandma is in hell”?

Steve 1st January 2020 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesjnr (Post 12939934)
I don't see the harm in it, just like there's no harm in promoting the existence of Santa or the Tooth Fairy . If you bring your kids up as best you can and encourage enquiring minds, then they'll form their own conclusions pretty quickly.

No one has ever grown up to persecute and even kill people because those people do not believe in Santa Claus. The belief in gods has had entirely different results.

RoboTimbo 1st January 2020 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940093)
One could argue if the parents spoke of a Christian God they wouldn't be lying

What an inane thing to say. Atheists don't believe any gods exist so they would definitely be lying if they spoke of any of the Christian gods existing.

Quote:

since Bart Ehrman said Jesus certainly existed
Oh, you mean that you believe that a generic, non-divine Jesus existed. That certainly isn't any sort of god.

Quote:

and Christians believe Christ is part of the Godhead (Trinity) or as some say God in the flesh.
Why are we talking about which non-existent gods Christians believe in? Let's talk about all of the non-existent gods that you want atheists to lie about, not just yours.

RoboTimbo 1st January 2020 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940144)
Quote: ...Which gods should atheists lie about the existence of to their children?



But at least there is some historical evidence that he was God, so even though the parents might believe they were lying, there is some evidence that what they said was truthful if they were talking about the Christian God.

There is historical evidence for every invented god. I don't want to limit the discussion to just your non-existent one. So your opinion is that atheists and theists should lie about the existence of gods?

Quote:

The parents and many others believe they don't have proof he is God but there is some evidence he is God. I've talked about that evidence in several threads.
All of your claims of evidence have proven to be hollow. Hundreds of people have discussed that in several threads.

Roger Ramjets 1st January 2020 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 12939896)
If you were an atheist, would you lie to us about God for the same reason?

I can't speak for DOC, but I lie about God all the time.

You see, I know God well - and He's nothing like people think. He's actually a bit of a prick - and a moron. He also lies constantly, and didn't do half of what he says. Oh sure He created the Universe, but that was just an accident. Since then he hasn't done squat. He doesn't have any supernatural powers either. Isn't omniscient, can't answer prayers, can't even make a good burrito, let alone one that's too hot to eat. As for giving believers everlasting life - well what do you think? That's right, just another lie.

But I can't tell people that. Imagine what it would do to their mental health!

DOC 1st January 2020 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC
...but as least there is some historical evidence that he was God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 12940162)
Such as?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...65#post9829265

Gord_in_Toronto 1st January 2020 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940418)

Not convincing then. Not convincing now.

RoboTimbo 1st January 2020 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940418)

Oh my! Your arguments in that thread were absolutely shredded!

So which gods should we lie about the existence of? You've only mentioned one of the Christian gods, is that the only one whose existence you think needs to be lied about?

DOC 1st January 2020 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940418)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo (Post 12940450)
Oh my! Your arguments in that thread were absolutely shredded!...

Argument by Assertion. Let the posts stand for themselves without offering up a wide sweeping opinion.

RoboTimbo 1st January 2020 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940473)
Argument by Assertion. Let the posts stand for themselves without offering up a wide sweeping opinion.

Actually, I'll do as I please. However, I note that you gave a sweeping opinion about your posts providing evidence when they don't. Beware the beam in your eye.

Which gods' existence are we supposed to lie to our children about? Do you think the Christian gods are the only ones that need to be lied about?

DOC 1st January 2020 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo (Post 12940485)
...Which gods' existence are we supposed to lie to our children about? Do you think the Christian gods are the only ones that need to be lied about?

Well if you are an atheist and you think you'd be lying to your child if you chose any God it seems it would be better to at least choose the God (like the Christian God) that has some historical and other evidence to apply to it. Then as the child got older, they would at least have some historical and other evidence to back up their belief if they did indeed choose to disagree with you and believe in God.

Of course if you don't want your child to believe in God as an adult it would be better to promote a God that doesn't have much evidence to support the belief in it.

8enotto 1st January 2020 11:49 PM

Mythology a million times rewritten to new ideals isn't history or evidence.

It is only mythology. Much of it based in historical events like maybe a flood or earthquake but the explanation is all wrong.

You cannot stop religious membership dwindling with lies and mythology repeated many times.

Steve 1st January 2020 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940539)
Well if you are an atheist and you think you'd be lying to your child if you chose any God it seems it would be better to at least choose the God (like the Christian God) that has some historical and other evidence to apply to it. Then as the child got older, they would at least have some historical and other evidence to back up their belief if they did indeed choose to disagree with you and believe in God.

Of course if you don't want your child to believe in God as an adult it would be better to promote a God that doesn't have much evidence to support the belief in it.

Evidence for existence of any god you could name is exactly the same - zero. Christian god included.

bluesjnr 1st January 2020 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 12940228)
No one has ever grown up to persecute and even kill people because those people do not believe in Santa Claus. The belief in gods has had entirely different results.

A fact not disputed by anything I wrote.

Dave Rogers 2nd January 2020 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 12939969)
True up to a point, but I know some kids whose conclusions thus formed would include that their parents were liars and that their advice was unreliable.

Not, in itself, necessarily bad advice. I've always told my kids, "Never believe anything your mother says," and she's always told them never to listen to their father. Possibly as a result, now they're grown up they show every sign of thinking for themselves.

Dave

Mojo 2nd January 2020 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940418)


:dl:

Porpoise of Life 2nd January 2020 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC (Post 12940539)
Well if you are an atheist and you think you'd be lying to your child if you chose any God it seems it would be better to at least choose the God (like the Christian God) that has some historical and other evidence to apply to it. Then as the child got older, they would at least have some historical and other evidence to back up their belief if they did indeed choose to disagree with you and believe in God.

Of course if you don't want your child to believe in God as an adult it would be better to promote a God that doesn't have much evidence to support the belief in it.

That line of 'argumentation' only makes sense if you already believe in the Christian God and want to promote the Christian faith. So it does not apply to atheist.

Could you stick to the topic of your own thread and explain why it's better for children's mental health (rather than for their immortal souls) to be lied to by their parents?


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