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-   -   Falsifying the history of WW II (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348052)

Saggy 21st November 2020 09:50 AM

Falsifying the history of WW II
 
Checking wiki we read ....
"Start of World War II
In private discussions in 1939, Hitler declared Britain the main enemy to be defeated and that Poland's obliteration was a necessary prelude for that goal."

In my kid's 11th grade history book we read ....
"Hitler was ready to conquer Europe."

In the 9th grade text ...
“Hitler had no interest in avoiding war.”
which, incidentally, I complained about to the publisher and it was changed to...
"Hitler, however, ignored these warnings. He had already made plans to invade Poland.”

For the good account of the beginning of the war see Buchanan's "Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War", for a quick intro see
https://www.bitchute.com/video/ALp2GkpcuzZi/

Also I just chanced on this quick intro to the subject ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCu7IT81gh8

For immediate proof that Hitler did everything he could to avoid war with the west see the photo and caption below showing a Brit reading a leaflet dropped by the Nazis over London promoting a negotiated settlement before a European war began ..

Lukraak_Sisser 21st November 2020 09:55 AM

Yes, neo-nazies do like falsifying the history of WW2 and trying to absolve one of the largest mass murderers and monsters of the history of mankind.

But I'm sorry, Hitler was a warmonger who willingly and for his own evil gains started WW2 .

Dave Rogers 21st November 2020 09:59 AM

Starting a war and then saying "We don't need to have a war if you just give me everything I want" is not trying to avoid a war.

Dave

Carrot Flower King 21st November 2020 10:36 AM

Someone reading a propaganda leaflet: I'm convinced...

What's that, Adolf? You claim you don't know that France and the UK have a treaty with Poland, guaranteeing that they will support Poland if it's invaded? The annexation of the Sudetenland was just a misunderstanding over a map? The Anschluss was an administrative oversight? And, oh, you already have some class of a non-aggression pact with the Soviets?

Blimey!

Darat 21st November 2020 11:06 AM

Being a tad unfair aren’t you? I mean who hasn’t accidentally invaded a country or two? You’re out for a stroll with a few of your mates and “oops done it again”.

Axxman300 21st November 2020 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13302082)
Being a tad unfair aren’t you? I mean who hasn’t accidentally invaded a country or two? You’re out for a stroll with a few of your mates and “oops done it again”.

[chuckles in American]:D

malbui 21st November 2020 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13302082)
Being a tad unfair aren’t you? I mean who hasn’t accidentally invaded a country or two? You’re out for a stroll with a few of your mates and “oops done it again”.

To be fair an old teacher of mine once did accidentally drive his tank over the border into a neighbouring country. It didn't really count as an invasion, though, as they only stopped long enough to buy cigarettes before turning around and sneaking back over the border.

Meadmaker 21st November 2020 12:06 PM

They did everything they could to avoid a war, except for avoiding a war.

Armitage72 21st November 2020 02:00 PM

Hitler just wanted peace. A piece of Poland, a piece of France, a piece of Portugal, a piece of Austria ...

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I AGREE

Hans 21st November 2020 05:53 PM

I always like how Hitlerbaby felt so threaten by Luxembourg he invaded and annexed it too. I think their army consisted of a single 500 man battalion.

Luxembourgers were like super Spartans and could have conquered all of Germany in a matter of days but fortunately the Nazis attacked first - just in time - to save their country and overwhelmed Luxembourg in a few hours. Lucky Hitler did that who knows what those blood thirsty Luxembourger would have done!!!

Axxman300 21st November 2020 07:57 PM

Why is it that Nazi apologists are the ones the Third Reich would have hung on hooks at Gestapo HQ for running their mouths?

Hans 21st November 2020 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxman300 (Post 13302416)
Why is it that Nazi apologists are the ones the Third Reich would have hung on hooks at Gestapo HQ for running their mouths?

Yes and for not being able to read and understanding chapter 14 of Mein Kampf.

Quote:

As opposed to this, we National Socialists must hold unflinchingly to our aim in foreign policy, namely, to secure for the German people the land and soil to which they are entitled on this earth.
Quote:

And so we National Socialists consciously draw a line beneath the foreign policy tendency of our prewar period. We take up where we broke off six hundred years ago. We stop the endless German movement to the south and west, and turn our gaze toward the land in the east.
Quote:

If we speak of soil in Europe today, we can primarily have in mind only Russia and her vassal border states.
Quote:

Neither western nor eastern orientation must be the future goal of our foreign policy, but an eastern policy in the sense of acquiring the necessary soil for our German people. Since for this we require strength, and since France, the mortal enemy of our nation, inexorably strangles us and robs us of our strength, we must take upon ourselves every sacrifice whose consequences are calculated to contribute to the annihilation of French efforts toward hegemony in Europe.
http://mondopolitico.com/library/meinkampf/v2c14.htm

Allen773 21st November 2020 11:22 PM

Oh, is it Nazi apologia time?

Cosmic Yak 22nd November 2020 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen773 (Post 13302512)
Oh, is it Nazi apologia time?

STOP! Himmler Time!
Doo, doo-doo doo, doo-doo doo.

Cosmic Yak 22nd November 2020 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak (Post 13302576)
STOP! Himmler Time!
Doo, doo-doo doo, doo-doo doo.

Can't Putsch This.




Sorry, I'll get me coat. :runaway

Hans 22nd November 2020 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans (Post 13302496)
Yes and for not being able to read and understanding chapter 14 of Mein Kampf.

http://mondopolitico.com/library/meinkampf/v2c14.htm

It would appear that Saggy like most fervent lovers of Hitler have never actually read Mein Kampf and just believe what they are told to believe about it by other believers - who haven't read it either.

LOL

Saggy 22nd November 2020 09:26 AM

Some quotes from MK ....

Before coming to Vienna Hitler's view of the Jews is benign,

Quote:

As I thought that they were persecuted on account of their Faith my aversion to hearing remarks against them grew almost into a feeling of abhorrence.

However as he engages in political discussions with the Jews his opinion changes:

Quote:

The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.

Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.

I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying.

Gradually I began to hate them.

In Vienna Hitler is employed as a common worker, and he encounters trade unions, Social Democrats, Jews, and Marxism:

Quote:

At midday some of my fellow workers used to adjourn to the nearest tavern, while the others remained on the building premises and there ate their midday meal, which in most cases was a very scanty one. These were married men. Their wives brought them the midday soup in dilapidated vessels. Towards the end of the week there was a gradual increase in the number of those who remained to eat their midday meal on the building premises. I understood the reason for this afterwards. They now talked politics.

I drank my bottle of milk and ate my morsel of bread somewhere on the outskirts, while I circumspectly studied my environment or else fell to meditating on my own harsh lot. Yet I heard more than enough. And I often thought that some of what they said was meant for my ears, in the hope of bringing me to a decision. But all that I heard had the effect of arousing the strongest antagonism in me. Everything was disparaged - the nation, because it was held to be an invention of the ‘capitalist’ class (how often I had to listen to that phrase!); the Fatherland, because it was held to be an instrument in the hands of the bourgeoisie for the exploitation of’ the working masses; the authority of the law, because that was a means of holding down the proletariat; religion, as a means of doping the people, so as to exploit them afterwards; morality, as a badge of stupid and sheepish docility. There was nothing that they did not drag in the mud.

……

Hitherto my acquaintance with the Social Democratic Party was only that of a mere spectator at some of their mass meetings. I had not the slightest idea of the social-democratic teaching or the mentality of its partisans. All of a sudden I was brought face to face with the products of their teaching and what they called their Weltanschhauung. In this way a few months sufficed for me to learn something which under other circumstances might have necessitated decades of study - namely, that under the cloak of social virtue and love of one’s neighbour a veritable pestilence was spreading abroad and that if this pestilence be not stamped out of the world without delay it may eventually succeed in exterminating the human race.

Hitler identified the Jews with Marxism and communism (Churchill shared this view see -Zionism versus Bolshevism). The above passages refer to a period before WW I, but were written after WW I and the Bolshevik revolution in Russia.

Regarding the Bolshevik revolution in Russia

Quote:

Now begins the great last revolution. In gaining political power the Jew casts off the few cloaks that he still wears. The democratic people's Jew becomes the blood-Jew and tyrant over peoples. In a few years he tries to exterminate the national intelligentsia and by robbing the peoples of their natural intellectual leadership makes them ripe for the slave's lot of permanent subjugation.

The most frightful example of this kind is offered by Russia, where he killed or starved about thirty million people with positively fanatical savagery, in part amid inhuman tortures, in order to give a gang of Jewish journalists and stock exchange bandits domination

Hitler also identified Jews with the international financiers, and wrote:

Quote:

As I listened to Gottfried Feder's first lecture about the 'breaking of interest slavery,' I knew at once that this was a theoretical truth which would inevitably be of immense importance for the future of the German people. The sharp separation of stock exchange capital from the national economy offered the possibility of opposing the internationalization of the German economy without at the same time menacing the foundations of an independent national self-maintenance by a struggle against all capital. The development of Germany was much too clear in my eyes for me not to know that the hardest battle would have to be fought, not against hostile nations, but against international capital. In Feder's lecture I sensed a powerful slogan for this coming struggle.

And here again later developments proved how correct our sentiment of those days was. Today the know-it-alls among our bourgeois politicians no longer laugh at us: today even they, in so far as they are not conscious liars, see that international stock exchange capital was not only the greatest agitator for the War, but that especially, now that the fight is over, it spares no effort to turn the peace into a hell.

The fight against international finance and loan capital became the most important point in the program of the German nation's struggle for its economic independence and freedom.

Hitler believed that the Jews and leftist elements in Germany sabotaged the war effort. Probably the most well known quote from MK is on the big lie:

Quote:

But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to Justice.

All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

catsmate 22nd November 2020 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13302082)
Being a tad unfair aren’t you? I mean who hasn’t accidentally invaded a country or two? You’re out for a stroll with a few of your mates and “oops done it again”.

Ehhhhh, it actually happened to a friend of mine. Though in his defense he has a poor sense of direction, it was the seventies and in a rather snowy part of Europe. WW3 did not ensue.

RolandRat 22nd November 2020 09:42 AM

For a defender of the white race Hitler sure got a lot of them killed.

Jack by the hedge 22nd November 2020 10:35 AM

So Hitler loathed the Jews because he thought they were Marxists and he detested the Jews because he thought they were capitalists and he hated the Jews because he thought they undermined the German war effort in WWI.

I wonder what a guy with beliefs like that might do if he got control of a large and resentful nation, militarised it and raised entire divisions of fanatical followers.

abaddon 22nd November 2020 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saggy (Post 13302821)
Some quotes from MK ....

Before coming to Vienna Hitler's view of the Jews is benign,




However as he engages in political discussions with the Jews his opinion changes:




In Vienna Hitler is employed as a common worker, and he encounters trade unions, Social Democrats, Jews, and Marxism:




Hitler identified the Jews with Marxism and communism (Churchill shared this view see -Zionism versus Bolshevism). The above passages refer to a period before WW I, but were written after WW I and the Bolshevik revolution in Russia.

Regarding the Bolshevik revolution in Russia




Hitler also identified Jews with the international financiers, and wrote:




Hitler believed that the Jews and leftist elements in Germany sabotaged the war effort. Probably the most well known quote from MK is on the big lie:

So the Jews are Marxist, communist, capitalist, financiers.

And somehow you cannot spot a problem in that.

That's bizarre.

Garrison 22nd November 2020 12:10 PM

Look there were fine people on both sides...

shemp 22nd November 2020 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan (Post 13302815)
Hey! Saggy is back with more Neo-Nazi apologetics!

Wonder if people will point out the many times he ran away in the past?

Ah, but like brave Sir Robin, he bravely ran away!

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I AGREE

Matthew Ellard 22nd November 2020 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saggy (Post 13302821)
Hitler believed that the Jews and leftist elements in Germany sabotaged the war effort.

:crazy:


Yes Saggy. Those evil Jews made Hitler waste all that money setting up gas chambers to kill themselves.

Susheel 22nd November 2020 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaddon (Post 13302965)
So the Jews are Marxist, communist, capitalist, financiers.

And somehow you cannot spot a problem in that.

That's bizarre.

It's like how liberals like me in India are accused of being Islamo-fascist, communist, Vatican controlled rice-bag converts.

threadworm 23rd November 2020 04:45 AM

Providing a photo dated Sepember 1940 as some sort of proof that Hitler didn't want a war in Europe is a bit embarrassing for you. Hitler had invaded France by then and was already attacking the UK by air. Days after this leaflet was dropped he started the blitz. That kind of campaign doesn't happen without planning.

What he wanted was Britain not to get involved so he could go about the business of raping the European mainland with impunity. He'd have got round to us eventually.

Pity he shot himself before they set him on fire.

Carrot Flower King 23rd November 2020 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge (Post 13302883)
So Hitler loathed the Jews because he thought they were Marxists and he detested the Jews because he thought they were capitalists and he hated the Jews because he thought they undermined the German war effort in WWI.

I wonder what a guy with beliefs like that might do if he got control of a large and resentful nation, militarised it and raised entire divisions of fanatical followers.

It's almost like he (amongst others) has some class of a problem with a particular group of people...If only there was a handy term to decribe that...

Norman Alexander 23rd November 2020 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saggy (Post 13302030)
For immediate proof that Hitler did everything he could to avoid war with the west see the photo and caption below showing a Brit reading a leaflet dropped by the Nazis over London promoting a negotiated settlement before a European war began ..

The man is laughing because this is a script from ITMA.

Susheel 23rd November 2020 05:14 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13303584)
It's almost like he (amongst others) has some class of a problem with a particular group of people...If only there was a handy term to decribe that...

Noooo...he was just misunderstood. Besides

Attachment 43661

THEY HAD IT COMING!!

Saggy 23rd November 2020 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge (Post 13302883)
So Hitler loathed the Jews because he thought they were Marxists and he detested the Jews because he thought they were <vulture> capitalists and he hated the Jews because he thought they undermined the German war effort in WWI.

With my <addition> that about sums it up. And he was right on all counts.

Jews as Marxists - two sources ...
Churchill - http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/WSCwrote1920.html

Quote:

In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.

Even better is this summary of Mein Kampf by Rabbi Josef ben Porat
https://www.bitchute.com/video/uKbrffKEyE3m/
http://www.antisemitism101.com/Pics2/rabbibenporat.jpg

Jews were vulture capitalists - see ...
THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX: HOW A BANKRUPT GERMANY SOLVED ITS INFRASTRUCTURE PROBLEMS
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/bankrupt-germany.php

Jews undermined the German war effort in WWI.
There is no doubt about this, and the 'left' tried (and did?) overthrow the govt. at the end of the war. I don't have a reference, but .. immediately following the war the Jews launched a communist revolution in Germany, to match the Soviets, but it was crushed, see ...
https://www.bitchute.com/video/jQwjlmYghTZl/
https://static-3.bitchute.com/live/c...Zl_640x360.jpg

Carrot Flower King 23rd November 2020 09:27 AM

The revolutionary activity in Germany in 1918-19 is far more complicated than "the Jews launched a communist revolution", as many different groups were involved in different stages of that, starting with disguntled sailors in the Navy and including a number of distinctly non-communist left groups.

But no, those all powerful "Jews" were behind it.

And IME of a chunk of leftist political groups in the UK in the '80s, they are/were as anti-semitic as you are...

kookbreaker 23rd November 2020 11:18 AM

Golly, the “left” making noises about ending the war when people are going hungry, the latest offensives came up way short than promised, the Navy ordered to suicide itself for the glory of the admirals, and now the US was involved to erase the gains from knocking Russia out of the war. Can’t imagine why anyone, left or right might this think that way.

BStrong 23rd November 2020 11:46 AM

I guess the cross was too wet to burn so the op took to the 'net.

Hans 23rd November 2020 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 13303982)
Golly, the “left” making noises about ending the war when people are going hungry, the latest offensives came up way short than promised, the Navy ordered to suicide itself for the glory of the admirals, and now the US was involved to erase the gains from knocking Russia out of the war. Can’t imagine why anyone, left or right might this think that way.

One of the major reasons the Central Powers lost was that the removal of manpower from farming caused a food shortage:

Quote:

The German government had made no economic plans for a long war. In 1914 Germany depended on imports for about a third of her foodstuffs, fodder and fertiliser, and these were affected by, among other things, the blockade put in place by the British navy from November 1914. Germany became, to a large extent, dependent on what her own farmers could produce. German agriculture was a mix of large estates in Northern Germany and some four million small farms elsewhere. As men and horses were called up, farmers’ wives took over the running of the farm, but lack of equipment, fertiliser and manpower, even though some 900,000 prisoners of war worked on the land, saw substantial falls in crop yields, which almost halved by the war’s end. A lack of fodder led to livestock losing weight, impacting on the supply of meat and milk. In July 1918 meat rations amounted to 12% of pre-war consumption.
----------------------------------------------------

Unless the German pre-war government and military were run by Jews those folks made the mistake of planning for a short war or one where there would be no naval blockade - this idea had worked in 1848, 1864, 1866, and 1870 but not this one because they went up against two major naval powers.

----------------------------------------------------

Oh, Saggy I see you refuse to comment on my earlier comments to you?

I take your running away to be a concession that Germany was an aggressor against Luxembourg and that in the MK Hitler clearly stated he planned to attack and take land from those countries in the East. He planned war decades before he did it. So, no innocent dictator.

Thanks for the concessions and I have to ask now that you have agreed you are wrong are you going to stop staying goofy stuff? What no? Oh, of course you have to keep spewing historically inaccurate stuff....lol

Border Reiver 23rd November 2020 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saggy (Post 13303697)
Jews undermined the German war effort in WWI.

Sure they did, that why they enlisted in proportionately greater numbers than any other ethnic group in Imperial Germany.

Myriad 23rd November 2020 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Border Reiver (Post 13304138)
Sure they did, that why they enlisted in proportionately greater numbers than any other ethnic group in Imperial Germany.


Not those Jews, silly! It was all the French and English and American Jews who enlisted on the enemy side!

dudalb 23rd November 2020 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen773 (Post 13302512)
Oh, is it Nazi apologia time?

Yeah, that has been Saggy's shtick for a number of years, now.

Hans 23rd November 2020 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13304191)
Yeah, that has been Saggy's shtick for a number of years, now.

He uses the same inept phrases and debates tactics each time. Yet is baffled each time why it doesn't work......

Captain_Swoop 23rd November 2020 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13303588)
The man is laughing because this is a script from ITMA.

Can I do you now sir?

theprestige 23rd November 2020 03:15 PM

NVM.


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