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-   -   White House Survivor (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321828)

acbytesla 7th January 2021 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadmaker (Post 13352147)
I wondered the same thing. I think the definitive answer would have to come from the Supreme Court. My guess is that they would rule that "acting" should be included. After all, they are the current head of that department, doing everything the regular Secretary would do. That includes voting on the 25th amendment, but it would be a court fight.

I read that Pence has signaled he won't support it, so the question is moot.

It's impeachment, or another two weeks of Trump.
Only confirmed members count. I think.

The 25th is a Constitutional prescription. Calling Joe Schmoe an official member of the cabinet seems very questionable. They are merely "acting" members until they are confirmed.

Resume 7th January 2021 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadmaker (Post 13352147)
I wondered the same thing. I think the definitive answer would have to come from the Supreme Court. My guess is that they would rule that "acting" should be included. After all, they are the current head of that department, doing everything the regular Secretary would do. That includes voting on the 25th amendment, but it would be a court fight.

I read that Pence has signaled he won't support it, so the question is moot.

It's impeachment, or another two weeks of Trump.
Two weeks is a long time for nuts like Trump. People were talking impeachment after his second perfect phone call, and folks wondered (maybe even you) what he was going to do to deflect attention. Well, we found out, didn't we? And it looks as if he'll get away with all of it, all of it; his sycophants are already emboldened and with few repercussions for the last insurrection event, you can bet more are planned. In fact, law enforcement is already running down scenarios for more unrest at the Capitol and at the inaugural.

dirtywick 7th January 2021 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadmaker (Post 13352145)
It's one of those cases where if you have the votes, then they have the votes, and indeed no explanation is needed, either for impeachment or for 25th amendment. However, if you don't have the votes, it's awfully hard to get them if you are working against the spirit of the law.

The amendment was meant for people who were physically or mentally disabled and could not execute the duties of the President. It won't be easy to convince people to make the declaration of "unable" in some different circumstance. It's not impossible, but it's a tough sell. Basically, unless they think he's dangerous, they won't do it.

And, you don't have to convince me that he's dangerous. You have to convince people like Ben Carson and Betsy DeVoss.
i'm certain they wouldn't even try unless they knew with absolute certainty they had the votes between congress and the cabinet.

i agree that he's dangerous and, if the cabinet resignations mean anything, perhaps they were closer to invoking the 25th than anyone realizes

Meadmaker 7th January 2021 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resume (Post 13352154)
Two weeks is a long time for nuts like Trump. People were talking impeachment after his second perfect phone call, and folks wondered (maybe even you) what he was going to do to deflect attention. Well, we found out, didn't we? And it looks as if he'll get away with all of it, all of it; his sycophants are already emboldened and with few repercussions for the last insurrection event, you can bet more are planned. In fact, law enforcement is already running down scenarios for more unrest at the Capitol and at the inaugural.
Yeah, that's the weird thing. The media is all in on Trump hating. We're all in on Trump hating. With this last stunt, even a huge chunk of Republican leadership is all, or at least mostly in on Trump hating. But his base? Nothing shakes them. Right now the "Antifa did it" isn't taken seriously except by a handful of crackpots. Repeat it enough times, though, and it will become true in their eyes. Already, "This is no worse than the BLM protests." is pretty much doctrine.

Mumbles 7th January 2021 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13352051)
Vos just quit.
One of the biggest rats left leaves the ship.
And the president of the American Federation of Teachers has released a statement on the matter:

Quote:
“Good Riddance.”

DevilsAdvocate 7th January 2021 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13352224)
Terse.

timhau 7th January 2021 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate (Post 13352233)
Terse.
And stylish. Needless words omitted.

dudalb 7th January 2021 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13352224)
Should have added the traditional "To Bad Garbage".

Jim_MDP 8th January 2021 04:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13352241)
Should have added the traditional "To Bad Garbage".
"rubbish"
It's important for the cadence. [emoji1]

The Great Zaganza 8th January 2021 04:16 AM
just in:

Trump resigned to avoid getting fired my Trump for making him look bad on how he handled the insurrection.
Trump hopes that this decisive move will cause FB and Twitter to reinstate his accounts and online shops.

Tero 8th January 2021 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13352414)
just in:

Trump resigned to avoid getting fired by Trump for making him look bad on how he handled the insurrection.
Trump hopes that this decisive move will cause FB and Twitter to reinstate his accounts and online shops.
we don't know what you are saying

The Great Zaganza 8th January 2021 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tero (Post 13352598)
we don't know what you are saying
I assume that Trump is trying to come up with a way to get himself out of this - and failing.

alfaniner 8th January 2021 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tero (Post 13352598)
we don't know what you are saying
I think it's supposed to be future speculation.

PhantomWolf 8th January 2021 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy (Post 13352012)
A delay is only likely to happen if they want him out of office without a vote. That basically would require McConnell to go rogue. Not impossible. It was his wife that resigned today.
Both parts of Congress have to hold a vote. Moscow Mitch doesn't control the House.

Segnosaur 8th January 2021 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf (Post 13353920)
Quote:
A delay is only likely to happen if they want him out of office without a vote. That basically would require McConnell to go rogue. Not impossible. It was his wife that resigned today.
Both parts of Congress have to hold a vote. Moscow Mitch doesn't control the House.
True, but I think the House would be willing to vote on Impeachment right away. Its only the republican-controlled senate that would be the potential delay.

RecoveringYuppy 8th January 2021 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf (Post 13353920)
Both parts of Congress have to hold a vote. Moscow Mitch doesn't control the House.
No, both parts do not have to hold a vote. And god ******* damn you must be stupid if you can't figure out why only one really matters.

PhantomWolf 8th January 2021 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy (Post 13353937)
No, both parts do not have to hold a vote.
Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

PhantomWolf 8th January 2021 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13353921)
True, but I think the House would be willing to vote on Impeachment right away. Its only the republican-controlled senate that would be the potential delay.
Weren't talking Impeachment, were talking 25th Amendment, which you should know cause it was your post that started this part of the thread.

RecoveringYuppy 8th January 2021 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf (Post 13353939)
Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
Read my post again to see my edit.

PhantomWolf 8th January 2021 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy (Post 13353937)
No, both parts do not have to hold a vote. And god ******* damn you must be stupid if you can't figure out why only one really matters.
just saving this ad hominem for posterity for when you start to feel like a fool.

PhantomWolf 8th January 2021 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy (Post 13353941)
Read my post again to see my edit.
You mean the part where you breached the TOS of this forum?

The Great Zaganza 9th January 2021 05:43 AM
The only reason why Cabinet Members are resigning is so that they won't have to vote on a possible 25th Amendment use.

d4m10n 9th January 2021 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13354200)
The only reason why Cabinet Members are resigning is so that they won't have to vote on a possible 25th Amendment use.
I think we can safely say this solution is off the table.

https://twitter.com/nationalpost/sta...95632375181317

The Great Zaganza 9th January 2021 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13354239)
I think we can safely say this solution is off the table.

https://twitter.com/nationalpost/sta...95632375181317
sure, but Chao couldn't be sure at the time.
And it's a bit too late to resign "in protest" when you are about to be called to vote on the President's unfitness.

Firestone 11th January 2021 02:53 PM
Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf is stepping down.

Trebuchet 11th January 2021 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestone (Post 13357277)
Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf is stepping down.
Another coward avoiding the 25th.

Segnosaur 11th January 2021 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 13357560)
Quote:
Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf is stepping down.
Another coward avoiding the 25th.
Not necessarily.

It hasn't been tested in the court of law, but there are some legal analysts who think that the 25th amendment can only be voted on/invoked by confirmed members of the cabinet. Since wolf was only the acting secretary, he might not have been allowed to vote to get rid of Trump anyways.

Still a douche bag, but for reasons other than avoiding the 25th.

d4m10n 11th January 2021 06:37 PM
No cabinet leaders are avoiding the 25th so long as Pence refuses to inititate the process in the first place.

acbytesla 11th January 2021 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13357568)
Not necessarily.

It hasn't been tested in the court of law, but there are some legal analysts who think that the 25th amendment can only be voted on/invoked by confirmed members of the cabinet. Since wolf was only the acting secretary, he might not have been allowed to vote to get rid of Trump anyways.

Still a douche bag, but for reasons other than avoiding the 25th.
Courts already have said the Wolf doesn't have the authority as a full fledged secretary when he attempted to destroy DACA.

Sherkeu 11th January 2021 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13354200)
The only reason why Cabinet Members are resigning is so that they won't have to vote on a possible 25th Amendment use.
They are out of a job soon anyway, but as a matter of transition, can they now be hired as consultants by the Biden team? Might be best of both worlds at this time. They can give honest info without intrusions of "the boss" and still get paid (not that most of them need it!).

Segnosaur 11th January 2021 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherkeu (Post 13357612)
They are out of a job soon anyway, but as a matter of transition, can they now be hired as consultants by the Biden team? Might be best of both worlds at this time. They can give honest info without intrusions of "the boss" and still get paid (not that most of them need it!).
Why would Biden want to hire them?

Most of them were either incompetent, or totally unsuited to their job. Its doubtful they would have any information of value to pass on (at least nothing that wouldn't have bee passed on during regular transition activities.)

And why trust them? Most of them were quite happy being Trump bootlickers. I certainly wouldn't trust any of them to give honest answers, because then they would have to own up to their own submissiveness to Trump.

Mader Levap 12th January 2021 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherkeu (Post 13357612)
They are out of a job soon anyway, but as a matter of transition, can they now be hired as consultants by the Biden team? Might be best of both worlds at this time. They can give honest info without intrusions of "the boss" and still get paid (not that most of them need it!).
Why anyone would want trumpistas in Biden administration?

bruto 12th January 2021 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherkeu (Post 13357612)
They are out of a job soon anyway, but as a matter of transition, can they now be hired as consultants by the Biden team? Might be best of both worlds at this time. They can give honest info without intrusions of "the boss" and still get paid (not that most of them need it!).
I think that ship has sailed. There have been plenty of situations where such things might happen - hackers rehired for security, the authors of financial disasters hired to undo them, and so forth, but at this point I think they've stayed with Trump too long, they're too conspicuously associated with him to get away with any role in the world their leader has so openly tried to destroy. At this point I suspect they're just hoping they might still be employable somewhere.

ponderingturtle 12th January 2021 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestone (Post 13357277)
Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf is stepping down.
But he was ruled illegal by the courts, can you step down from a job you legally do not have?

Craig4 12th January 2021 08:35 PM
Are they are more that could be survivors? I mean, if you're still in the White House, you're the orchestra on the Titanic playing, "Nearer my God to Thee".

Firestone 13th January 2021 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13358470)
But he was ruled illegal by the courts, can you step down from a job you legally do not have?
:con2:

Jim_MDP 13th January 2021 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig4 (Post 13358954)
Are they are more that could be survivors? I mean, if you're still in the White House, you're the orchestra on the Titanic playing, "Nearer my God to Thee".
Ben Carson.
I hated T handing him a $2 billion chunk of HUD. But he kept his head down (that I noticed) and let the career staff show him the way.
I think... any major cock-ups from his area?

Eta: Sorry, I think the $2B was a NY slice T assigned to an ex-party planner donor. IIRC.

Segnosaur 13th January 2021 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_MDP (Post 13359128)
Quote:
Are they are more that could be survivors? I mean, if you're still in the White House, you're the orchestra on the Titanic playing, "Nearer my God to Thee".
Ben Carson.
I hated T handing him a $2 billion chunk of HUD. But he kept his head down (that I noticed) and let the career staff show him the way.
I think... any major cock-ups from his area?
Biggest screw-up may have been Carson overspending on his office redecoration.

There have been a few other Trump cabinet members who made it all the way through...

Mnuchin (Treasury) - known for misuse of government jets
Ross (Commerce) - Fell asleep during meetings
Purdue (Agriculture) - Under him, the department hired multiple Trump campaign workers who had no agriculture experience
Lighthizer (trade) - A 'trade representative' who favors tariffs

Beelzebuddy 13th January 2021 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13359137)
Ross (Commerce) - Fell asleep during meetings
Eh. So do I. No matter how interesting I might find a subject to be, there's always some blowhard willing to go on about it at length to hear the sound of their own voice, and it puts me down faster than a glass of warm milk. Anything you need to say that can't be said in fifteen minutes should be written down instead.

Then again I'm not the head of a major government agency.

Segnosaur 13th January 2021 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy (Post 13359803)
Quote:
Ross (Commerce) - Fell asleep during meetings
Eh. So do I. No matter how interesting I might find a subject to be, there's always some blowhard willing to go on about it at length to hear the sound of their own voice, and it puts me down faster than a glass of warm milk. Anything you need to say that can't be said in fifteen minutes should be written down instead.

Then again I'm not the head of a major government agency.
Yeah but he also may have been involved with insider trading, stealing from his business partners, etc.

And in office, he also questioned why people would visit food banks instead of taking out personal loans.

Armitage72 13th January 2021 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13359815)
And in office, he also questioned why people would visit food banks instead of taking out personal loans.

Continuing the tradition of Mitt Romney, who told college students that they can start a business by borrowing money from their parents.

Firestone 13th January 2021 02:48 PM
Hope Hicks's last day at the White House was yesterday.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/polit...iot/index.html

TurkeysGhost 14th January 2021 05:40 AM
Zero credit for these people quitting at the 11th hour. I hope this follows them for the rest of their lives.

The Don 14th January 2021 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13360516)
Zero credit for these people quitting at the 11th hour. I hope this follows them for the rest of their lives.
You could make an argument that it's worse than not quitting at all. At least the people still in the bunker with President Trump have the courage of their (misplaced) convictions.

TurkeysGhost 14th January 2021 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13360519)
You could make an argument that it's worse than not quitting at all. At least the people still in the bunker with President Trump have the courage of their (misplaced) convictions.
The smart move is to stay.

I really doubt they're going to get any credibility back by quitting now. The CHUDs are only going to see you as a traitor for abandoning the God-King during his time of need. Sticking to Trump now at least leaves them with love from the fringe wing of MAGA dead-enders.

Bailing on Trump now just leaves these people with no friends anywhere. Or perhaps I'm naïve. Centrist libs really do love rehabilitating reprehensible right wingers.

d4m10n 14th January 2021 06:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13360527)
Bailing on Trump now just leaves these people with no friends anywhere. Or perhaps I'm naïve. Centrist libs really do love rehabilitating reprehensible right wingers.
We do love a good redemption story.

Crossbow 14th January 2021 06:38 AM
In true Trump fashion, Trump has now turned on his biggest defender, Rudy Giuliani, by refusing to pay him.

Once again, it has been clearly demonstrated that Trump is a petty, lying, worthless POS who will turn on anyone, and everyone, who does not fully support him.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...032513094.html

Report: 'Isolated And Angry' Trump Refuses To Pay Rudy Giuliani For Legal Work

President Donald Trump is reportedly taking out his frustrations on his personal attorney and longtime friend, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

And he’s doing it in the classic Trump fashion: by refusing to pay him.

...

Citing two unnamed officials, the newspaper said Trump has not only refused to pay Giuliani’s legal fees but has told aides that all reimbursement requests for travel and other expenses need to go through him.

...

dudalb 14th January 2021 06:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbow (Post 13360560)
In true Trump fashion, Trump has now turned on his biggest defender, Rudy Giuliani, by refusing to pay him.

Once again, it has been clearly demonstrated that Trump is a petty, lying, worthless POS who will turn on anyone, and everyone, who does not fully support him.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...032513094.html

Report: 'Isolated And Angry' Trump Refuses To Pay Rudy Giuliani For Legal Work

President Donald Trump is reportedly taking out his frustrations on his personal attorney and longtime friend, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

And he’s doing it in the classic Trump fashion: by refusing to pay him.

...

Citing two unnamed officials, the newspaper said Trump has not only refused to pay Giuliani’s legal fees but has told aides that all reimbursement requests for travel and other expenses need to go through him.

...
I fully expected this. Trump has a long history of stiffing his lawyers. That is why he can't hire first class lawyers.

Puppycow 14th January 2021 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbow (Post 13360560)
In true Trump fashion, Trump has now turned on his biggest defender, Rudy Giuliani, by refusing to pay him.
A smart lawyer would get paid in advance.

d4m10n 14th January 2021 06:53 AM
To be fair, Rudy didn't come through on the whole Bidengate thing. [emoji14]


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