International Skeptics Forum

International Skeptics Forum (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumindex.php)
-   Social Issues & Current Events (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=82)
-   -   Continuation Cancel culture IRL Part 2 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354396)

angrysoba 13th December 2021 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13678305)
Well, dude's got a union, the only real antidote to "cancel culture" real or imagined.

I'm willing to make a compromise with right wing reactionaries, I'll pretend "cancel culture" is a real menace if their response is to unionize their workplaces to prevent arbitrary firings.

Yeah, this is my point. We see a lot of right-wingers angrily stamping their feet about people being let go from their jobs, and yet few of them seem to care about making their jobs more secure through unions.

If John McWhorter writes that the antitode to Woke Racism is unions, then I would be pretty happy. If his answer is to just constantly rile up voters until they turn out for the GOP, I would be less so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13678325)
And for anyone over the age of 35 it is obviously a rehash of "political correctness gone mad", the previous right-wing fearmongering strawman.

Oh, indeed. This is pretty obvious.

Pick a year, open the Daily Mail and you will find the pages melting with warnings that the world is going to hell in a handbasket because of lefties...

SuburbanTurkey 13th December 2021 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angrysoba (Post 13678326)
Pick a year, open the Daily Mail and you will find the pages melting with warnings that the world is going to hell in a handbasket because of lefties...

Yeah, we gotta step it up. Really going to work hard to make 2022 the year we do a big Cultural Marxism on everyone. Do your part for a grimmer tomorrow!

SuburbanTurkey 16th December 2021 05:32 AM

Doing a state censorship to fight cancel culture:

Quote:

A Trump-adoring sheriff in Michigan is pursuing criminal charges against a Howell woman who called out anti-maskers on Twitter, drawing sharp criticism from legal experts.

Livingston County Sheriff Mike Murphy investigated the tweets and handed the case over to prosecutors in hopes of initiating charges against Kasey Helton.



Activists and legal experts were aghast at the sheriff's actions, saying he is attacking Helton’s free speech rights.

In the tweets, Helton took aim at anti-mask nurses who spread misinformation about COVID-19 and the effectiveness of face coverings at local board meetings.
https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits...d-anti-maskers

Michigan seems to have laws criminalizing non-threatening speech, which seems to be unconstitutional on its face. Apparently these comments can result in a felony charge:

Quote:

Kasey posted a video of the woman speaking at the meeting and wrote, “I’d like you to meet Nurse Rebecca Skoczylas … who spread misinformation” at a school board meeting.

“I’m calling her Nurse E.Coli b/c she’s full of ��,” Kasey tweeted.

In another tweet, she referred to one of the nurses as a “dangerous RN sponsored by Schoolcraft College” and a “pathetic purveyor of health misinformation.”

None of the tweets contained a threat.

d4m10n 16th December 2021 05:42 AM

Sure hope Nurse Skoczylas is union.

pgwenthold 16th December 2021 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13681055)
Doing a state censorship to fight cancel culture:



https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits...d-anti-maskers

Michigan seems to have laws criminalizing non-threatening speech, which seems to be unconstitutional on its face. Apparently these comments can result in a felony charge:

Just so we are clear:

Twitter banning users for what they say on Twitter that violate the TOS violates the 1st amendment.

But the sheriff arresting people for what they say on Twitter is just fine.

johnny karate 16th December 2021 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13681055)
Doing a state censorship to fight cancel culture:

https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits...d-anti-maskers

Michigan seems to have laws criminalizing non-threatening speech, which seems to be unconstitutional on its face. Apparently these comments can result in a felony charge:

This seems bad, but let's not overreact. We need to keep our focus on the real problem.

Sure, agents of the state are actively using their power and authority to suppress free speech, but a handful of college professors lost their jobs, and Dr. Seuss has been cancelled, and also that MMA lady doesn't get to play Star Wars anymore.

d4m10n 16th December 2021 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13681121)
Twitter banning users for what they say on Twitter that violate the TOS violates the 1st amendment.

I haven't seen anyone make this argument here on ISF. Have you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13681121)
But the sheriff arresting people for what they say on Twitter is just fine.

Same question.

TheGoldcountry 16th December 2021 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13681542)
I haven't seen anyone make this argument here on ISF. Have you?

Same question.

I think he's paraphrasing certain people who have a blind spot in regards to this obvious double standard, not people here.

People with orange hair, or those who worship them.

SuburbanTurkey 16th December 2021 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13681060)
Sure hope Nurse Skoczylas is union.

Me too, every worker should have a union.

d4m10n 16th December 2021 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry (Post 13681574)
I think he's paraphrasing certain people who have a blind spot in regards to this obvious double standard, not people here.

Bookmarked the link in case I come across them at some point.

johnny karate 16th December 2021 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13681596)
Bookmarked the link in case I come across them at some point.

Check with Fox News or other outlets that share your concerns about "cancel culture". Or just talk to a Republican.

d4m10n 16th December 2021 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13681623)
Check with Fox News or other outlets that share your concerns about "cancel culture".

Will do. In the meanwhile, it seems a bit bizarre to condescendingly address people who aren't actually reading along. Weird flex, as it were. Sort of like stabbing a scarecrow and then gloating about how they won't fight back.

ETA: Do you happen to know what my concerns actually are re: cancel culture?

johnny karate 17th December 2021 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13681637)
Will do. In the meanwhile, it seems a bit bizarre to condescendingly address people who aren't actually reading along. Weird flex, as it were. Sort of like stabbing a scarecrow and then gloating about how they won't fight back.

I'm not sure it was addressed to certain people so much as it was to the topic itself. If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that the hypocrisy referred to isn't part of the anti-"cancel culture" culture, go right ahead. But it is.

Quote:

ETA: Do you happen to know what my concerns actually are re: cancel culture?
Feel free to provide a succinct and specific list of your concerns.

SuburbanTurkey 17th December 2021 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13682208)
I'm not sure it was addressed to certain people so much as it was to the topic itself. If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that the hypocrisy referred to isn't part of the anti-"cancel culture" culture, go right ahead. But it is.



Feel free to provide a succinct and specific list of your concerns.

Context is for dweebs. We should all pretend this "cancel culture" thing is actually a serious line of thought derived from Frist Principles, instead of what it clearly is revealing itself to be through how these ideas get expressed as run-of-the-mill right wing censorship and revisionism.

You see, we must treat these ideas with tremendous seriousness and curiosity, despite overwhelming evidence that literally nobody wielding the term as a cudgel gives a single bit about being honest.

johnny karate 17th December 2021 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13682221)
Context is for dweebs. We should all pretend this "cancel culture" thing is actually a serious line of thought derived from Frist Principles, instead of what it clearly is revealing itself to be through how these ideas get expressed as run-of-the-mill right wing censorship and revisionism.

You see, we must treat these ideas with tremendous seriousness and curiosity, despite overwhelming evidence that literally nobody wielding the term as a cudgel gives a single bit about being honest.

Yes, a sober lesson we all learned from Johnny Depp when he told us about the horrors of being "cancelled" while accepting a lifetime achievement award in front of an adoring audience.

Dr. Keith 17th December 2021 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13681637)
Will do. In the meanwhile, it seems a bit bizarre to condescendingly address people who aren't actually reading along. Weird flex, as it were. Sort of like stabbing a scarecrow and then gloating about how they won't fight back.

ETA: Do you happen to know what my concerns actually are re: cancel culture?

Iirc, people online are sometimes acting on information without due consideration.

I have to say, it doesnít real sound catchy enough for a cult or deep enough for a Dylan song. Maybe you can make it into some sort of meme?

d4m10n 17th December 2021 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13682208)
If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that the hypocrisy referred to isn't part of the anti-"cancel culture" culture, go right ahead.

I don't recall making a thread about anti-"cancel culture" culture, whatever that means.

Also, if you don't know what my concerns are, feel free not to reference them.

d4m10n 17th December 2021 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith (Post 13682339)
Iirc, people online are sometimes acting on information without due consideration.

If by "acting" you mean specifically trying to put people out work and take away their access to healthcare, yes.

d4m10n 17th December 2021 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13682221)
We should all pretend this "cancel culture" thing is actually a serious line of thought derived from Frist Principles, instead of what it clearly is revealing itself to be through how these ideas get expressed as run-of-the-mill right wing censorship and revisionism.

Which of my objections (to canceling folks like Kroger Andy and Gelato Andy) have been rooted in right-wing censorship?

autumn1971 17th December 2021 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13682413)
Which of my objections (to canceling folks like Kroger Andy and Gelato Andy) have been rooted in right-wing censorship?

Ironically, they are actually anti-free-market. Clients complain and it has consequences.
Employers make decisions based on client dollars.

Why do you hate capitalism?

d4m10n 17th December 2021 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autumn1971 (Post 13682451)
Why do you hate capitalism?

Because oftentimes it treats workers as disposable.

johnny karate 17th December 2021 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13682407)
I don't recall making a thread about anti-"cancel culture" culture, whatever that means.

Also, if you don't know what my concerns are, feel free not to reference them.

I'm not sure why I have be able to specifically enumerate what concerns you have about "cancel culture" to point out that have you concerns about "cancel culture".

SuburbanTurkey 17th December 2021 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13682413)
Which of my objections (to canceling folks like Kroger Andy and Gelato Andy) have been rooted in right-wing censorship?

The general idea of a "cancel culture" is a nakedly unsupported assumption which asserts that the ordinary ebb and flow of public criticism and discourse is some novel and corrosive element.

Two people getting unjustly (to your eye) "cancelled" does not a "cancel culture" make.

johnny karate 17th December 2021 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13682413)
Which of my objections (to canceling folks like Kroger Andy and Gelato Andy) have been rooted in right-wing censorship?

Not sure who Gelato Andy is, but Kroger Andy wasn't actually "cancelled" and ended up $28K richer for the failed attempt. Feel free to try to "cancel" me if it nets me enough money to buy a new car.

It would probably be better to look at your concerns over Gina Carano being "cancelled" to see where they align with purveyors of right wing censorship.

Dr. Keith 17th December 2021 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13682412)
If by "acting" you mean specifically trying to put people out work and take away their access to healthcare, yes.

They take away their ACA eligibility? Wow, the internet is powerful.

Dr. Keith 17th December 2021 04:40 PM

Having read further, this all just a pro-union and pro national healthcare thread. I’m on board.

SuburbanTurkey 17th December 2021 05:43 PM

It's pretty funny that right wingers have a culture war issue that hinges entirely on the fact that so many Americans have precarious employment.

d4m10n 17th December 2021 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13682537)
It's pretty funny that right wingers have a culture war issue that hinges entirely on the fact that so many Americans have precarious employment.

It's hilarious that you keep talking about right-wingers even when they aren't here to argue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith (Post 13682494)
Having read further, this all just a pro-union and pro national healthcare thread.

Both good ideas; both would also make public shaming efforts directed at ordinary employees vastly less ethically fraught.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13682488)
Not sure who Gelato Andy...

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/com..._mio_andy_are/

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13682488)
It would probably be better to look at your concerns over Gina Carano being "cancelled" to see where they align with purveyors of right wing censorship.

Gina will land on her feet, but the gleeful cancelers did manage to kill the spinoff. Don't call it censorship, though, it's just television that won't happen.

johnny karate 17th December 2021 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13682558)

Is there a way for me to know how what happened to Gelato Andy represents an existential threat to society that doesnít require me to read a Reddit thread?

d4m10n 17th December 2021 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13682564)
Is there a way for me to know how what happened to Gelato Andy represents an existential threat to society that doesnít require me to read a Reddit thread?

Nope, that the only well-written unbiased account.

(Not sure why you're invoking existential theeats.)

johnny karate 17th December 2021 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13682558)
Gina will land on her feet, but the gleeful cancelers did manage to kill the spinoff. Don't call it censorship, though, it's just television that won't happen.

My reason for not calling it censorship would probably be because it would be ludicrous to do so and Iíd be embarrassed to even suggest it.

I would, however, love to know how I can force a giant media conglomerate to cancel a show I donít like. I had no idea this amazing power was available to me.

johnny karate 17th December 2021 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13682565)
Nope, that the only well-written unbiased account.

Guess Iíll take your word for it, then.

Quote:

(Not sure why you're invoking existential theeats.)
For a reason to care, I suppose.

d4m10n 17th December 2021 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13682566)
I had no idea this amazing power was available to me.

No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13682567)
For a reason to care, I suppose.

Must be relaxing to never fret about anything less than existential threats.

What, me worry?

johnny karate 17th December 2021 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13682568)
Must be relaxing to never worry about anything less than existential threats.

What, me worry?

Weíre in a thread about ďcancel cultureĒ, not random Reddit anecdotes about an unpleasant thing that might have happened to someone.

If itís not a serious and pervasive problem, I donít see how itís worthy of discussion.

d4m10n 17th December 2021 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13682576)
Weíre in a thread about ďcancel cultureĒ, not random Reddit anecdotes about an unpleasant thing that might have happened to someone.

An unpleasant attempt by self-identified skeptics to drive a gelatiere out of business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13682576)
If itís not a serious and pervasive problem, I donít see how itís worthy of discussion.

Feel free not to discuss.

SuburbanTurkey 18th December 2021 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13682558)
It's hilarious that you keep talking about right-wingers even when they aren't here to argue.

Both good ideas; both would also make public shaming efforts directed at ordinary employees vastly less ethically fraught.



https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/com..._mio_andy_are/

Gina will land on her feet, but the gleeful cancelers did manage to kill the spinoff. Don't call it censorship, though, it's just television that won't happen.

I don't think you're going to have much luck finding anyone to discuss the version of cancel culture that only exists in your head.

d4m10n 18th December 2021 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13682900)
I don't think you're going to have much luck finding anyone to discuss the version of cancel culture that only exists in your head.

Such as the OP?

SuburbanTurkey 18th December 2021 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13683007)
Such as the OP?

Yes.

johnny karate 21st December 2021 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13682579)
An unpleasant attempt by self-identified skeptics to drive a gelatiere out of business.

Obviously one of the most serious crises to occur in recent memory.

Quote:

Feel free not to discuss.
I'm not given much option when you refuse to clarify or expound upon your position.

d4m10n 21st December 2021 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13685207)
Obviously one of the most serious crises to occur in recent memory.

I wouldn't think so.

I mean, it was probably awful for him (for a time) to be getting piled-on by so many strangers, but ultimately his Yelp! ratings rebounded despite the semi-coordinated efforts of a fairly vengeful online mob.

johnny karate 22nd December 2021 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13685655)
I wouldn't think so.

I mean, it was probably awful for him (for a time) to be getting piled-on by so many strangers, but ultimately his Yelp! ratings rebounded despite the semi-coordinated efforts of a fairly vengeful online mob.

Thanks for keeping us updated on this very important situation. Looking forward to more truly gripping accounts of the experiences of random people on Yelp.

d4m10n 22nd December 2021 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13686093)
Looking forward to more truly gripping accounts of the experiences of random people on Yelp.

Are you also looking forward to making a point here?

JoeMorgue 22nd December 2021 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13686124)
Are you also looking forward to making a point here?

His point is that you don't have one, and haven't for months across two separate threads.

d4m10n 22nd December 2021 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13686127)
His point is that you don't have one, and haven't for months across two separate threads.

Seems an odd thing to bang on about, given so many other threads to choose from. I wrote the OP to ask whether it makes (moral) sense to try to summon an online mob to get some random Kroger employee sacked. If you don't care to discuss such things, move along.

JoeMorgue 22nd December 2021 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13686136)
Seems an odd thing to bang on about, given so many other threads to choose from. I wrote the OP to ask whether it makes (moral) sense to try to summon an online mob to get some random Kroger employee sacked. If you don't care to discuss such things, move along.

Because you're using cherry picked non-examples to try and demonize "Minorities, disenfranchised groups, and just general other people are simply not sitting back and passively taking crap anymore."

Your vague, mushmouth mumblings about "Oh lordy why is it such a big deal, why not just ignore it" is part of the problem.

johnny karate 22nd December 2021 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13686124)
Are you also looking forward to making a point here?

You first.

johnny karate 22nd December 2021 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13686136)
Seems an odd thing to bang on about, given so many other threads to choose from. I wrote the OP to ask whether it makes (moral) sense to try to summon an online mob to get some random Kroger employee sacked. If you don't care to discuss such things, move along.

I'm not sure anyone is making the argument that it makes moral sense for an online mob to get some random Kroger employee sacked, so your point continues to elude.

JoeMorgue 22nd December 2021 12:50 PM

It's the same mentality that means if one trashcan gets knocked over in a protest, then the fact that the black guy was murdered by police doesn't count anymore.

tyr_13 22nd December 2021 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13686143)
Because you're using cherry picked non-examples to try and demonize "Minorities, disenfranchised groups, and just general other people are simply not sitting back and passively taking crap anymore."

Your vague, mushmouth mumblings about "Oh lordy why is it such a big deal, why not just ignore it" is part of the problem.

The entire objection is that they now are being asked to accept some amount of risk, having some skin in the game, for things progressing. It is thus vital they amplify any flaws in implementation to pretend the overall concept shouldn't apply to them.

This is how you can get some liberals, some progressives, and some members of marginalized groups, jumping in with regressives, racists, fascists and the like. One might want the benefits of their identity group having protection or support from the general populace able to vocally disagree, but they might fear more the risk it might also hold them to some kind of account. It is the same as people who 'support gay rights' but then chafe at that support meaning asking any inconvenient action be allowed by them.

Asking risk is for other groups to do for things to get better, never my special group. It doesn't really change if that group is white people, conservatives, religion, homosexual, South American, women, or progressive. If the process isn't perfect (as defined by asking nothing more of them), then the process itself is a harm to be addressed.

JoeMorgue 22nd December 2021 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyr_13 (Post 13686171)
The entire objection is that they now are being asked to accept some amount of risk, having some skin in the game, for things progressing.

Well yeah that's why every single version of this discussion is the same:

Minority: Hey could we be treated with, ya know like basic level humans rights up to and maybe even including the right to literally continue to exist?
Majority: Wait, what? Errr sure we can totally do that... right after we create a perfect solution in which I not only see any downside to, not only am never merely inconvenienced by, but in fact pretty much an totally unaffected by and unaware of.

Again it how so many racists, apologist, and just our bog standard trolling contrarians can say stuff like "Well I WAS going to say that the police murdering minorities without fear of reprisal was bad... but then I saw a window get broken during the protests so now I don't know what to think" with a straight face.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:36 AM.

Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2015-22, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.