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-   -   Covid-19 and Politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342577)

a_unique_person 26th March 2020 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13033222)
“The government should have given funding to existing ventilator manufacturers, and existing companies like us.”









Onn BBC 'Newsnight'



So the govt still acting like spivs, giving contracts to their donors who have never made any medical equipment and have no manufacturing in the UK rather than to existing manufacturers of ventilatorsl.

What?

The Atheist 26th March 2020 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13033877)
Cuba takes in British cruise ship MS Braemar:

Maybe thanks to their tobacco industry, Cuba has a very good record at treating respiratory illnesses and they're confident their interferon treatment works.

I'd certainly try it.

dudalb 26th March 2020 05:08 PM

Hey, poor people can't get the virus

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/ameri...ntl/index.html

This idiot is a left wing version of Borsalino in Brazil.

And he is taking his cue frorm the VIrus denying President of Mexico.

Segnosaur 26th March 2020 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13034120)
Hey, poor people can't get the virus

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/ameri...ntl/index.html

This idiot is a left wing version of Borsalino in Brazil.

And he is taking his cue frorm the VIrus denying President of Mexico.

Speaking of Brazil... apparently drug gangs in Brazil are actually stepping in and imposing a curfew on people to stop the spread of the virus, after the government failed to step in.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...gs-coronavirus

The Atheist 26th March 2020 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13034120)
This idiot is a left wing version of Borsalino in Brazil.

Well, you did say only a day or so ago that there were prize morons on both sides of the spectrum.

dann 26th March 2020 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13034018)
An authoritarian state, an island, and an excellent health care system, they're well poised to fight Covid-19.


Authoritarian, really? How authoritarianism help fight infections?
Island, you mean like the UK? Yes, that seems to work extremely well. And in this situation, Cuba doesn't behave like other island states:

Quote:

Earlier this month, the government also took the unusual step of offering help to a British cruise liner with at least five confirmed coronavirus cases aboard and dozens more people suffering from flu-like symptoms. Several other islands including the Bahamas and Barbados, had already turned down the cruise ship.
The MS Braemar docked in the Port of Mariel, site of the boatlift of refugees fleeing the island to the US in 1980, and Cuban health workers carried out the risky, daylong operation of transporting more than 600 cruise ship passengers from the port to the runaway at Havana's airport, where four charter planes to England were waiting.
"I am very grateful to the Cuban government for allowing this operation to move forward," said Antony Stokes, the UK's ambassador to Cuba, on the day the Braemar arrived.
Coronavirus-hit countries are asking Cuba for medical help. Why is the US opposed? (March 26, 2020)

An excellent health care system? Well, yes, it is excellent within the limitations imposed upon it - it doesn't have access to a lot of medicine and facilities due to the U.S. blockade and many things are too expensive for the Cuban economy to buy.
However, Cuba does have dedicated professional health care workers and the spirit of international solidarity, but the most important thing is that its primary concern is taking care of its people, not to make sure that the stock exchange is running smoothly.
No wonder Trump can't stand them:

Quote:

If Trump did offer Cuba any sanctions relief, it would fly in the face of his policy of dismantling the Obama administration's opening to Cuba. Trump has also made clear he believes a tough on Cuba posture wins votes with Florida's conservative Cuban American community.
Last week, Trump offered an olive branch to a communist adversary, saying he would be willing to send aid to help North Korea fight the coronavirus. Despite Cuba's growing contributions to the battle against the pandemic, Havana is unlikely to receive a similar offer.
Coronavirus-hit countries are asking Cuba for medical help. Why is the US opposed? (March 26, 2020)

dann 26th March 2020 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13034075)
Maybe thanks to their tobacco industry, Cuba has a very good record at treating respiratory illnesses and they're confident their interferon treatment works.

I'd certainly try it.


You didn't read the CNN article.

Quote:

The MS Braemar docked in the Port of Mariel, site of the boatlift of refugees fleeing the island to the US in 1980, and Cuban health workers carried out the risky, daylong operation of transporting more than 600 cruise ship passengers from the port to the runaway at Havana's airport, where four charter planes to England were waiting.

By the way, in spite of the tobacco industry in Cuba, Cuban doctors are adamant about telling the population to stop smoking. And they tell foreigners the same thing. However, if people insist on smoking, they may be inclined to recommend cigars instead of cigarettes ...

The Atheist 27th March 2020 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13034395)
You didn't read the CNN article.

Correct. My computer is set to delete its hard drive if it strays onto CNN or Fox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13034395)
By the way, in spite of the tobacco industry in Cuba, Cuban doctors are adamant about telling the population to stop smoking. And they tell foreigners the same thing. However, if people insist on smoking, they may be inclined to recommend cigars instead of cigarettes ...

Sure - I bet it's better for health services not to have to deal with it, but anecdotally at least, they seem to have treatments available that aren't elsewhere. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...aw/1019093001/

Whether they really work, nobody knows, because the only evidence comes from Cuba and is probably suspect.

Mojo 27th March 2020 04:32 AM

Boris has tested positive: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791

Squeegee Beckenheim 27th March 2020 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 13034538)
Boris has tested positive: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791

Matt Hancock, too

dann 27th March 2020 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13034463)
Correct. My computer is set to delete its hard drive if it strays onto CNN or Fox.

Sure - I bet it's better for health services not to have to deal with it, but anecdotally at least, they seem to have treatments available that aren't elsewhere. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...aw/1019093001/

Whether they really work, nobody knows, because the only evidence comes from Cuba and is probably suspect.


Why do you think that it is "probably suspect"? When I visited a (Cuban!) hospital in Guantánamo in 2009, another Dane in my group asked the doctors about their use of alternative medicine. They refuted the idea and said that they only used science-based medicine. However, a few years later I visited a hospital in Cienfuegos and saw a homemade sign offering homeopathy, acupuncture and reflexology.

I know that at one point an Australian homeopath managed to persuade somebody in the Cuban ministry of health that homeopathic vaccinations were an actual thing, but at least one local organization of doctors protested against the idea, and I have never seen it mentioned since - except by Australian (and other) homeopaths. In recent years, I've seen no mention of it in Cuba.

Since health care in Cuba is free-of-charge, Cubans will not typically resort to alt.med. practitioners. Witchdoctors don't have a leg to stand on when people have access to science-based medicine, but I have heard of Cubans who went to a babalawo with certain problems. A Cuban friend of mine claimed that Santeria helped his sister get pregnant. I said I believed him, but asked if his new nephew looked like the father ...

I have heard about CimaVax, and I tried to find out more a few years ago. I'm not sure how efficient it is, but it doesn't seem to be any miracle cure. If I remember correctly the claim was that it could postpone death from a certain kind of lungcancer by a couple of months. CimaVax-EGF (Wikipedia)
In the case of coronavirus, Cuban doctors hope that the drug Interferón Alpha 2B will be effective. It has been used in Wuhan, and Johns Hopkins is testing it.
All about Cuba’s ‘wonder drug’ being pitched against coronavirus (The Week, March 24, 2020)
The history of interferon in Cuba, in use today to treat Covid-19 (Granma, March 23, 2020)
Interferon Alfa 3B (gob.cu)

Captain_Swoop 27th March 2020 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 13034538)
Boris has tested positive: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791

I can't stop laughing at that footage of Cummings fleeing no 10 like a vampire trying to find a coffin before dawn.

wobs 27th March 2020 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13031829)
It's not surprising, but it seems that the epicentre of our local outbreak of Coronavirus is the local hospital - The Royal Gwent.

The only fatality in our local town contracted Coronavirus in hospital and the only people we know personally who may have had Coronavirus (though due to a lack of testing there's no certainty) had recently visited that hospital.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...marita-edwards

Might the source be due to the rugby earlier this year? Didn't Italy play in Wales in the 6 Nations?

sphenisc 27th March 2020 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 13034538)
Boris has tested positive: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791

17.5 million others decide to follow his lead.

Captain_Swoop 27th March 2020 07:27 AM

The Brexit negotiator, David Frost, is already off work with suspected symptoms of the virus.

Neither the PM's senior adviser Dominic Cummings nor the Chancellor with whom Mr Johnson has recently appeared have been tested, have been tested.

The Don 27th March 2020 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wobs (Post 13034609)
Might the source be due to the rugby earlier this year? Didn't Italy play in Wales in the 6 Nations?

Could be but IMO the timing doesn't quite match up. The game was on 01 February, the first cases were recorded in early March.

This BBC story seems to indicate that all the early cases could be traced to individuals who had recently returned from Italy. Then again given the lack of testing in the UK, who really knows.

We know of several people who have exhibited symptoms of Coronavirus, none of whom have been tested.

Captain_Swoop 27th March 2020 08:24 AM

Brave Sir Dominic ran away
He bravely ran away away
When Boris reared his virulent head
He bravely turned his tail and fled

*******, so much for 'herd immunity'

P.J. Denyer 27th March 2020 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Parcher (Post 13033769)
You might not get help because you haven't gone out of business - you are still walking dogs for pay.

I'm still walking dogs at least in part because up until now it's been that or have no money at all coming in, I haven't been through the details yet but now I might have the option to isolate, as non essential workers have been urged to do (I then have to consider the fact that some of the people I'm still working for need me because they can't get out themselves, or in the case of the doctors I walk for, they can be doing more valuable things with their time at the moment than taking their dogs out). But my other job which is selling fine wines at food festivals made up a large percentage of my income has been shut down, and I doubt I'll be getting any event photography gigs this year either. Add to that that when the people who's dogs I walk are not working or are working from home, they are less likely to need a dog walker, I'm down from four group walks a day to one. it's not like it's business as usual I have some money coming in, not enough to keep me afloat indefinately.

I've spoken from a personal perspective but it's all self employed people who've been affected and many of them haven't had the option even to carry own in a limited capacity as I have, for example a domestic cleaner I spoke to (at a safe distance) yesterday who's every client has turned round and said 'come back when it's over'.

Businesses are getting help to try and stop them going out of business, surely that should be the case for the self employed as well?

GlennB 27th March 2020 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13034764)
Brave Sir Dominic ran away
He bravely ran away away
When Boris reared his virulent head
He bravely turned his tail and fled

*******, so much for 'herd immunity'

Link, man, link!!! :)

Manger Douse 27th March 2020 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13033790)
Self employed will get paid based on average of income over a number of months based on previous tax returns.
If you haven't been self employed for a year and sent in a tax return you get nothing at all.
Advice is tough **** sign up for Universal credit, it's 'too complicated' to do anything about it.

I work in the event industry - the last few months are the quietest time of year for a lot of us [emoji106]

catsmate 27th March 2020 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13034393)
Authoritarian, really?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13034393)
How authoritarianism help fight infections?

By imposing movement restrictions, enforcing physical isolation and quarantine.
Perhaps you may have noted such measures being used successfully in China>

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13034393)
Island, you mean like the UK? Yes, that seems to work extremely well. And in this situation, Cuba doesn't behave like other island states:

Technically several islands. And it's far easier to impose a working ban on entry/exit when you're surrounded by water and less is imported.
Given the idiocy of the UK response to Covid-18 they're not a reasonable comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13034393)
An excellent health care system? Well, yes, it is excellent within the limitations imposed upon it - it doesn't have access to a lot of medicine and facilities due to the U.S. blockade and many things are too expensive for the Cuban economy to buy.

Cuba rates 33 on DALE, not far below the "developed" world.It's HCS performance rating is 36th, far better than the USA. It's life expectancy and infant mortality rates are better than those of the USA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13034393)
However, Cuba does have dedicated professional health care workers and the spirit of international solidarity, but the most important thing is that its primary concern is taking care of its people, not to make sure that the stock exchange is running smoothly.
No wonder Trump can't stand them:

Yes....

catsmate 27th March 2020 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 13034538)
Boris has tested positive: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791

Oh dear. How unfortunate. Never mind.

catsmate 27th March 2020 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13034673)
The Brexit negotiator, David Frost, is already off work with suspected symptoms of the virus.

Neither the PM's senior adviser Dominic Cummings nor the Chancellor with whom Mr Johnson has recently appeared have been tested, have been tested.

Maybe the time has come for euthanasia?

Squeegee Beckenheim 27th March 2020 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 13034840)
Link, man, link!!! :)

It's not very exciting, it's just Cummings running down the road away from #10. It's being painted as him running away from Johnson now he's tested positive, but it's likely more than he's got some urgent business to attend to.

Besides, he's been interacting with Johnson for ages. If anything, running away after coming in to contact, rather than self-isolating feeds in to the herd immunity strategy, as he's likely to be spreading it to others.

Squeegee Beckenheim 27th March 2020 09:33 AM

Chief Medical Officer Chris Whittey is experiencing symptoms and is self-isolating

That's the third person in Johnson's orbit.

P.J. Denyer 27th March 2020 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13034578)

Crosses fingers

Jeremy Hunt
Jeremy Hunt
Jeremy Hunt

Captain_Swoop 27th March 2020 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 13034840)
Link, man, link!!! :)

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/stat...20576007872513

vid capture from BBC News

Captain_Swoop 27th March 2020 02:28 PM

As someone tweeted

"Nothing screams “remain calm” quite like pegging it out of Number 10 like you’re Indiana Jones fleeing a boulder"

P.J. Denyer 27th March 2020 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13035112)

Run little Mekon, run! Don't look back and don't ever, ever stop!

Matthew Best 27th March 2020 05:43 PM

So, assuming that Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock are capable of following simple instructions - like keeping 2 meters from other people and washing their hands thoroughly - then how did they contract coronavirus?

I mean, I'm trying to keep my wife's spirits up by telling her that we are doing everything we can to limit our exposure and I can see no reason why we shouldn't get through this without being one of the people who gets infected. But if the Prime Minister and the Health Minister can't manage it, what hope do we have?

Of course, if it turns out they both did something stupid like having meetings with people in enclosed areas, then I'll feel a lot better. But they wouldn't do that, would they? I mean, they wouldn't just completely ignore the advice they're giving to other people, surely?

angrysoba 27th March 2020 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 13035564)
So, assuming that Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock are capable of following simple instructions - like keeping 2 meters from other people and washing their hands thoroughly - then how did they contract coronavirus?

I mean, I'm trying to keep my wife's spirits up by telling her that we are doing everything we can to limit our exposure and I can see no reason why we shouldn't get through this without being one of the people who gets infected. But if the Prime Minister and the Health Minister can't manage it, what hope do we have?

Of course, if it turns out they both did something stupid like having meetings with people in enclosed areas, then I'll feel a lot better. But they wouldn't do that, would they? I mean, they wouldn't just completely ignore the advice they're giving to other people, surely?

I think the phrase is “do as I say, not as I do!”.

The Atheist 27th March 2020 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 13035564)
But they wouldn't do that, would they? I mean, they wouldn't just completely ignore the advice they're giving to other people, surely?

No, definitely not Boris. He's been proven time and time again to be honest, so it's hardly likely he'd start now.

Must be an aerosol virus.

Squeegee Beckenheim 28th March 2020 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 13035564)
So, assuming that Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock are capable of following simple instructions - like keeping 2 meters from other people and washing their hands thoroughly - then how did they contract coronavirus?

I mean, I'm trying to keep my wife's spirits up by telling her that we are doing everything we can to limit our exposure and I can see no reason why we shouldn't get through this without being one of the people who gets infected. But if the Prime Minister and the Health Minister can't manage it, what hope do we have?

Of course, if it turns out they both did something stupid like having meetings with people in enclosed areas, then I'll feel a lot better. But they wouldn't do that, would they? I mean, they wouldn't just completely ignore the advice they're giving to other people, surely?

Johnson was bragging just a couple of weeks ago about shaking coronavirus patients' hands in a hospital because it was no big deal.

Mind you, the hospital on that particular visit didn't actually have an coronavirus patients, so that was a lie. #10 have now said that it was doctors' hands he shook, but who knows?

Squeegee Beckenheim 28th March 2020 01:44 AM

https://twitter.com/Ben_e_lux/status...37900895076356

Quote:

Brussels rubbishes UK ventilator claims

Here's the press conference link where the question was asked
Article and video embedded in tweets. Basically, we all knew the UK's claims of not having joined in the EU bulk-buy of ventilators because the dog ate their homework they didn't get the email was a lie, but now here's proof of that lie.

Squeegee Beckenheim 28th March 2020 02:20 AM

Some people in Wuhan who had previously recovered from the virus are now testing positive again

Captain_Swoop 28th March 2020 03:07 AM

Nigel Farage tweets

We have become East Germany c.1985 overnight. Next thing children will be encouraged to report on their parents.

Squeegee Beckenheim 28th March 2020 04:07 AM

Well, I suppose he had to find some way to try to become relevant again.

Darat 28th March 2020 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 13035564)
So, assuming that Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock are capable of following simple instructions - like keeping 2 meters from other people and washing their hands thoroughly - then how did they contract coronavirus?

I mean, I'm trying to keep my wife's spirits up by telling her that we are doing everything we can to limit our exposure and I can see no reason why we shouldn't get through this without being one of the people who gets infected. But if the Prime Minister and the Health Minister can't manage it, what hope do we have?

Of course, if it turns out they both did something stupid like having meetings with people in enclosed areas, then I'll feel a lot better. But they wouldn't do that, would they? I mean, they wouldn't just completely ignore the advice they're giving to other people, surely?


Mentioned it in another post but (and this will sound like a light hearted comment but there is more than a kernel of truth to it) Johnson belongs to a social class that does not consider rules whether legal or social apply to them, rules are for the great unwashed.

Mojo 28th March 2020 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13035849)
https://twitter.com/Ben_e_lux/status...37900895076356



Article and video embedded in tweets. Basically, we all knew the UK's claims of not having joined in the EU bulk-buy of ventilators because the dog ate their homework they didn't get the email was a lie, but now here's proof of that lie.


Apparently they’ve also ordered ventilators from companies that have never made them, while ignoring experienced suppliers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ventilator-row

Quote:

The head of Direct Access, Steven Mifsud, told the Nantwich News he had sourced 5,000 ventilators and millions of face masks and personal protective equipment through partners in the United Arab Emirates. He said he registered the supply on the “ventilator challenge” page of the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy website, but after five days he had heard nothing and the supplies went elsewhere.

I hope the companies they hire to ship the ventilators they’ve ordered have, er, ships.

Mader Levap 28th March 2020 06:26 AM

I expect this kind of corruption pop up everywhere.

In my boonies we had scandal with gov blocking masks from China and then consulting company (that never dealt with masks in any way) got on to it as middleman (what, you thought they would actually produce masks? lol no). That company just happens to be owned by politician of our ruling party.


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