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-   -   General UK politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346868)

P.J. Denyer 6th March 2021 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aber (Post 13416708)
Almost all NHS staff will have a pay increase of 2-3% above inflation (and will do most years) and a final salary pension scheme.

Those in the private sector are much more likely to be furloughed or lose their jobs.

Even if we take this as fact without taking into account how much public sector pensions have been depreciated, why is the problem that they get them rather than that the rest of us, who might once have expected similar, don't?

GlennB 6th March 2021 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13417794)
Aber is working on the old, long gone, idea that all NHS staff have an automatic move up their pay band, the old annual increment. This has not been a given for all staff some time and the systems in place around this are routinely manipulated by management or made the subject of "local deals", which were never intended to be part of national NHS pay arrangements, but have been allowed to sneak in by the DoH, especially since 2010, and frequently are put in place without full discussion with staff (this certainly happened in 2 major acute trusts round here - source: one of the peoole who paid the staff of those trusts while working for one of them, who just happens to be through in the next room).

Thanks for that :thumbsup:

Aber 7th March 2021 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13418112)
Even if we take this as fact without taking into account how much public sector pensions have been depreciated, why is the problem that they get them rather than that the rest of us, who might once have expected similar, don't?

Because of how much they cost. I'm involved in a third sector organisation where pension contributions are now 20%+ of salaries for those who were TUPE'd across from the public sector.

Full disclosure - I'm a member of an LGPS pension scheme where IIRC I can take full pension if my job is restructured after the age of 55.

Darat 7th March 2021 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aber (Post 13418305)
Because of how much they cost. I'm involved in a third sector organisation where pension contributions are now 20%+ of salaries for those who were TUPE'd across from the public sector.

Full disclosure - I'm a member of an LGPS pension scheme where IIRC I can take full pension if my job is restructured after the age of 55.

The “solution” to that is to make all employers make adequate payments into pension schemes, that we’ve let the private sector get away with externalising their costs isn’t a reason for the public service to lose their pension schemes. (Albeit that has already happened, look at the prison service for an example of how a good pension has been removed.)

I’ve always held that whilst there is a deficit in a company’s pension scheme no profit can be taken out via dividends or by officers of the company. And if a company can’t afford the pension scheme then it is obviously an unprofitable company and shouldn’t be supported by the tax payers.

gypsyjackson 8th March 2021 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13417794)
Aber is working on the old, long gone, idea that all NHS staff have an automatic move up their pay band, the old annual increment. This has not been a given for all staff some time and the systems in place around this are routinely manipulated by management or made the subject of "local deals", which were never intended to be part of national NHS pay arrangements, but have been allowed to sneak in by the DoH, especially since 2010, and frequently are put in place without full discussion with staff (this certainly happened in 2 major acute trusts round here - source: one of the peoole who paid the staff of those trusts while working for one of them, who just happens to be through in the next room).

Yeah, if it’s anything like Defra, that went around 2009. We had zero pay rise for 2 years, then 1% in 2011, 2012, and 2013. So by that point, you’d have had a 3.03% pay increase over what you were getting in 2008. In 2014 they brought in a new system which meant you got 1% if you were a strong performer, 0.5 for adequate, and 0 if on performance management measures. No increment for a long, long time.

There was once a milestone system by which if you had been in the same grade for a certain number of years you got a pay rise bigger than the norm, but I never got close, and I think that went around the same time (2009). I was lucky in that I got a job where I had an allowance to compensate for not being paid overtime, then another where I was posted overseas (it still cost me money, even with some allowances, due to a stingy COLA rate, but that’s a different story).

Captain_Swoop 8th March 2021 05:50 PM

Asylum seekers were housed in cramped and filthy conditions at a military barracks, inspectors have said.

Some of the most vulnerable people were living in a "decrepit" block unfit for habitation at Kent's Napier Barracks.

The Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration and Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Prisons also visited Penally Camp in Pembrokeshire. They said both sites were "run-down".

The Home Office said it had instructed service providers to make improvements.

Ms Patel, who has repeatedly defended the use of Napier, last month said: "This site has previously accommodated our brave soldiers and army personnel. It is an insult to say that it is not good enough for these individuals"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-56325360

Some of the blocks had been empty and disused for years even before the army left.

gypsyjackson 8th March 2021 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13419917)

Ms Patel, who has repeatedly defended the use of Napier, last month said: "This site has previously accommodated our brave soldiers and army personnel. It is an insult to say that it is not good enough for these individuals"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-56325360

Some of the blocks had been empty and disused for years even before the army left.

Does she ever describe them as “people”?

Darat 9th March 2021 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsyjackson (Post 13420063)
Does she ever describe them as “people”?

Why would she?

The Don 9th March 2021 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsyjackson (Post 13420063)
Does she ever describe them as “people”?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13420140)
Why would she?

Exactly ! They can't vote, and if they eventually become able to do so, they're unlikely to vote Conservative ;)

Captain_Swoop 9th March 2021 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13420199)
Pah - only Britain counts, you’ll best remember your place now we are no longer held down by the EU, otherwise we might send an aircraft carrier* to remind you of your place!


*If you could hold on a decade so we can get some planes


They might not be getting them all now.

They are on about cancelling them and going for a new British plane that may be available from 2030.

Apparently it's going to be better and cheaper than the F35.

Wudang 9th March 2021 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13419917)
Ms Patel, who has repeatedly defended the use of Napier, last month said: "This site has previously accommodated our brave soldiers and army personnel. It is an insult to say that it is not good enough for these individuals"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-56325360

Some of the blocks had been empty and disused for years even before the army left.


I'm sure I remember press reports of the "scandal" of the state of much armed services accomodation. Maybe a few decades ago.

The Don 9th March 2021 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13420201)
They might not be getting them all now.

They are on about cancelling them and going for a new British plane that may be available from 2030.

Apparently it's going to be better and cheaper than the F35.

Are we going to be getting some old Harriers from the USMC ?

edited to add.....

Apparently not, it's a new plane called the Tempest.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-r...by-65-percent/

Quote:

An order for 90 more F-35 Lightning combat jets is to be cancelled in favour of the Tempest fighter, built in Lancashire,

Captain_Swoop 9th March 2021 03:14 AM

That the barracks had previously been used by 'brave soldiers and army personnel' in the past says nothing about their suitability or condition now.
It doesn't even say anything about their condition when they were used to house 'brave soldiers and army personnel'.
There is a reason they were abandoned, parts of the site hadn't been used for decades.

Captain_Swoop 9th March 2021 03:17 AM

Tempest fighterOff topic but they are on about replacing the Typhoon with the new Tempest' stealth fighter from 2035.
There is talk of not bothering with any more F35s other than enough to keep one carrier at sea and jumping to Tempest for the RAF. 2bn earmarked for initial development already.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Tempest

Darat 9th March 2021 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13420213)
That the barracks had previously been used by 'brave soldiers and army personnel' in the past says nothing about their suitability or condition now.
It doesn't even say anything about their condition when they were used to house 'brave soldiers and army personnel'.
There is a reason they were abandoned, parts of the site hadn't been used for decades.

Actually I think it is quite a good idea of the HS, it will help acclimatise them to the conditions they can expect in a post-Brexit UK!

The Don 9th March 2021 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13420216)
Tempest fighterOff topic but they are on about replacing the Typhoon with the new Tempest' stealth fighter from 2035.
There is talk of not bothering with any more F35s other than enough to keep one carrier at sea and jumping to Tempest for the RAF. 2bn earmarked for initial development already.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Tempest

Well if there's one thing that the MOD is brilliant at, it's delivering big programmes on budget and ahead of schedule.:rolleyes:

ChristianProgressive 9th March 2021 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13420201)
They might not be getting them all now.

They are on about cancelling them and going for a new British plane that may be available from 2030.

Apparently it's going to be better and cheaper than the F35.

And has the advantage of making them less dependant on the US, which has conclusively proven it cannot be trusted internationally.

Captain_Swoop 9th March 2021 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive (Post 13420224)
And has the advantage of making them less dependant on the US, which has conclusively proven it cannot be trusted internationally.

It will be a huge money pit that is unreliable, over complicated and under performs.

There is criticism of the F-35 for cost. That will be nothing compared to this.
Look at the typhoon and before that the Tornado.
Why do we expect this new aircraft with it's 'energy weapon, ai, pilotless drone capability and everything else they could think of rammed in to it will be any better?
We will be able to afford about five of them.

Captain_Swoop 9th March 2021 06:57 AM

Nimrod AEW is another good example.
Billions sunk init and it never worked.
It's taken us 35 years to sort out L85 Rifle and we had to get H&K to do that.
It started off in the late 40s as the EM-1 a good bullpup design that was liked by those that tested it.
This was abandoned and a bullpup conversion done to an AR-18 was made to save costs and development .
It was rushed in to service without proper development in a cost cutting form to boost the value of the Royal Small Arms Factory which the govt wanted to privatise.
It was a disaster from the start and in 2000 was given to H&K to fix. They virtually rebuilt it.
In the end it has cost far more money than throwing it away and buying M-16s or Steyrs or something from H&K.

catsmate 9th March 2021 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13419917)
Asylum seekers were housed in cramped and filthy conditions at a military barracks, inspectors have said.

Some of the most vulnerable people were living in a "decrepit" block unfit for habitation at Kent's Napier Barracks.

The Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration and Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Prisons also visited Penally Camp in Pembrokeshire. They said both sites were "run-down".

The Home Office said it had instructed service providers to make improvements.

Ms Patel, who has repeatedly defended the use of Napier, last month said: "This site has previously accommodated our brave soldiers and army personnel. It is an insult to say that it is not good enough for these individuals"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-56325360

Some of the blocks had been empty and disused for years even before the army left.

Has she ever visited, let alone lived, in a UK military facility? Even a well maintained one?

catsmate 9th March 2021 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13420209)
Are we going to be getting some old Harriers from the USMC ?

edited to add.....

Apparently not, it's a new plane called the Tempest.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-r...by-65-percent/

That'd be the Tempest that doesn't exist yet as other than a giant plastic model? The Tempest that is blessed with not only BAE and QinetiQ, but also direct MoD involvement in the development?
:eek::boggled::eye-poppi:jaw-dropp:covereyes

Captain_Swoop 9th March 2021 09:09 AM

Yes it's going to have stealth, optional manning, swarming drones, directed-energy weapons, hypersonic weapons, a completely virtual cockpit display in the pilots helmet visor and cost less than the Typhoon and F-35 and start coming in to service in 9 years time.

From the same people that abandoned upgrading the the Challenger because it was going to cost more than buying brand new tanks from Germany or the USA.
Same with the Warrior AFV. Not that they haven't spent about 40 million on 'studies'

Darat 9th March 2021 09:50 AM

Will it have antigravity?

The Don 9th March 2021 11:46 AM

Will it do test and trace?

Yet another reinvention of the wheel - which like so many of Boris Johnson's schemes will simply never happen.

P.J. Denyer 9th March 2021 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13420216)
Tempest fighterOff topic but they are on about replacing the Typhoon with the new Tempest' stealth fighter from 2035.
There is talk of not bothering with any more F35s other than enough to keep one carrier at sea and jumping to Tempest for the RAF. 2bn earmarked for initial development already.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Tempest



Are we getting that from an aircraft manufacturer or has a member of their cabinet fast tracked their ex-Pub Landlord into the contract?

P.J. Denyer 9th March 2021 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13420541)
Has she ever visited, let alone lived, in a UK military facility? Even a well maintained one?

I think she should. Preferably with the rest of the Cabinate & a few of their backers. A period of about ten years seems about an appropriate minimum.

Captain_Swoop 9th March 2021 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13420849)
I think she should. Preferably with the rest of the Cabinate & a few of their backers. A period of about ten years seems about an appropriate minimum.

One that has been left standing empty for a few years and is now being run by a private contracting company that put in the lowest bid.

Airfix 9th March 2021 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13420845)
Are we getting that from an aircraft manufacturer or has a member of their cabinet fast tracked their ex-Pub Landlord into the contract?

BAE Systems have put together a Panavia style consortium to develop and build the aircraft.
Getting a technology demonstrator to fly would be the easy bit, developing the avionics and weapons and AI stuff, that'll be the hard bit.

In 1986 a technology demonstrator called EAP was flying, but the Eurofighter Typhoon didn't enter service until 2003.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

catsmate 10th March 2021 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13420845)
Are we getting that from an aircraft manufacturer or has a member of their cabinet fast tracked their ex-Pub Landlord into the contract?

It's QuinteQ and BAE so basically the latter.

catsmate 10th March 2021 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airfix (Post 13420994)
BAE Systems have put together a Panavia style consortium to develop and build the aircraft.
Getting a technology demonstrator to fly would be the easy bit, developing the avionics and weapons and AI stuff, that'll be the hard bit.

In 1986 a technology demonstrator called EAP was flying, but the Eurofighter Typhoon didn't enter service until 2003.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

It took seven years to get from mock-up and specs (the stage "Tempest" is at now) to EAP; eight more years to get to prototype; and nine further years to get to initial batch production. Oh and three more to IOC in squadron service.
And they're talking about "Tempest", incorporating far more, and more complex technologies, to be in service in nine years?

There are not enough :rolleyes: to express my opinion of that.

Airfix 10th March 2021 09:22 AM

They're building on some work form the "Replica" project which underwent 5 years of development work in the 1990's, and the test bed model of Replica was spotted in 2014 at Warton, but still, it's an extremely ambitious timeline.

The Don 10th March 2021 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13421580)
It took seven years to get from mock-up and specs (the stage "Tempest" is at now) to EAP; eight more years to get to prototype; and nine further years to get to initial batch production. Oh and three more to IOC in squadron service.
And they're talking about "Tempest", incorporating far more, and more complex technologies, to be in service in nine years?

There are not enough :rolleyes: to express my opinion of that.

It's the same magical thinking that had the government spending hundreds of millions on a bankrupt satellite company with entirely the wrong type of satellite. :mad:

Airfix 10th March 2021 09:27 AM

It would be interesting to know the financial links between current cabinet MPs and BAE Systems.

catsmate 10th March 2021 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13421606)
It's the same magical thinking that had the government spending hundreds of millions on a bankrupt satellite company with entirely the wrong type of satellite. :mad:

Exactly. And QuinteQ is involved, so it'll be an expensive disaster.
Plus you can kiss goodbye to substantial EU or US assistance; Britain has demonstrated a distinct lack of trustworthiness.

Captain_Swoop 10th March 2021 12:10 PM

Grant Shapps says that a bridge is still being considered to link NI and Scotland.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ireland-tunnel

Vixen 10th March 2021 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13421805)
Grant Shapps says that a bridge is still being considered to link NI and Scotland.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ireland-tunnel

That could be a minefield...

catsmate 12th March 2021 01:45 AM

I see Gove's failure to deliver on his promise to ban electric-shock collars for animals is back in the news.

zooterkin 12th March 2021 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13423438)
I see Gove's failure to deliver on his promise to ban electric-shock collars for animals is back in the news.

You do? Maybe a link to where you saw it?

catsmate 12th March 2021 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13423444)
You do? Maybe a link to where you saw it?

Here for example. The furor over the YouTube videos seems to have reminded people of Gove's promise to ban the devices in the UK (excluding Wales) back in '18.

P.J. Denyer 12th March 2021 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13423438)
I see Gove's failure to deliver on his promise to ban electric-shock collars for animals is back in the news.

I think they should still be available for specific purposes. Like SortedFood "Shock The Chef" episodes!


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