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-   -   Trump's biggest failure (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359665)

Hercules56 15th June 2022 02:14 PM

Trump's biggest failure
 
I was thinking today about Trump, and what his biggest failure was.

I think it was his refusal to accept the Democrat's deal on his silly wall.

The Democrats offered to give Trump $30 billion, that's THIRTY BILLION DOLLARS to build his wall!!!! In exchange for making DACA the law of the land.

That wall, would have been a MASSIVE accomplishment for Trump and his ideology. A giant campaign flag, showing his achievement.

But in true Trumpian style, he blew it. He demanded Mars when he was offered the Moon, but the Moon was not enough.

What a dumbass.

shemp 15th June 2022 02:16 PM

His biggest failure was being born. His mother should have aborted him.

Crossbow 15th June 2022 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shemp (Post 13834177)
His biggest failure was being born. His mother should have aborted him.

Thanks much!

I was thinking about the same thing myself.

Skeptic Ginger 15th June 2022 02:39 PM

I'd say it's his failure to recognize how sick he is and get help.

dudalb 15th June 2022 03:30 PM

I would say he belief that being President was the same as being Dictator.

Trebuchet 15th June 2022 03:31 PM

His children (or at least the children of his wives) have got to be right up there.

Stellafane 15th June 2022 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13834231)
I would say he belief that being President was the same as being Dictator.

I would phrase this as a failure to understand that the U.S.A. is a nation of laws. I believe he perceived government as strictly an us-vs-them dynamic, that all he had to do was outmaneuver the Democrats to get what he wanted, by any means required. That explains why he seemed so mystified when Republican secretaries of state failed to overturn unfavorable election results -- didn't they know they were on the same team? For him it was as simple as that, and he was baffled that anyone would factor respect for the law into the equation. It also explains why he suggested stupid, horrific stuff like pardoning himself if he ever got convicted of anything. Finally, it explains why he sent his dogbodies over to the Capitol to try to frighten Congress into not certifying the election results. Who cares about law when you can beat them up to get your way.

Back in 2016 when Trump first got elected, I apologized to a visiting French colleague on behalf of the country. My colleague told me not to despair, because America is a country of laws and ultimately laws are always stronger than any single person. Trump put that idea to its most severe test yet, but in the end it appears my colleague was right. And although there will likely be repercussions and reverberations for years to come, it looks as though we're still operating under the rule of law, for all the damage Trump and his vermin did to this country and its institutions.

dudalb 15th June 2022 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stellafane (Post 13834252)
I would phrase this as a failure to understand that the U.S.A. is a nation of laws. I believe he perceived government as strictly an us-vs-them dynamic, that all he had to do was outmaneuver the Democrats to get what he wanted, by any means required. That explains why he seemed so mystified when Republican secretaries of state failed to overturn unfavorable election results -- didn't they know they were on the same team? For him it was as simple as that, and he was baffled that anyone would factor respect for the law into the equation. It also explains why he suggested stupid, horrific stuff like pardoning himself if he ever got convicted of anything. Finally, it explains why he sent his dogbodies over to the Capitol to try to frighten Congress into not certifying the election results. Who cares about law when you can beat them up to get your way.

Back in 2016 when Trump first got elected, I apologized to a visiting French colleague on behalf of the country. My colleague told me not to despair, because America is a country of laws and ultimately laws are always stronger than any single person. Trump put that idea to its most severe test yet, but in the end it appears my colleague was right. And although there will likely be repercussions and reverberations for years to come, it looks as though we're still operating under the rule of law, for all the damage Trump and his vermin did to this country and its institutions.

I hope so, but I am not sure. Law is dependent on those who enforce it, and the number of blind Trump loyalist who are winning primaries for postions that will cause put them in charge of elections is something to be scared about.
But it is nice to see some hope rather then the despair I am seeing in so many posters.
BTW, Trump has always held the law in contempt, as something to get around.

sackett 15th June 2022 04:58 PM

Re a well-written OT: Thump's wall would never have been built, but think how many cookies $30bn is. He could've bought friends, collaborators, stooges, judges, skull-crackers, and mail bombers.

Hell, he might even have bought laws.

Crazy Chainsaw 15th June 2022 05:02 PM

He has no grasp of Basic Physics Logic or reason, he is like a Spoiled child that no one ever said No too.

sackett 15th June 2022 05:13 PM

And Stellafane: I hope your post is footnoted in histories for generations to come.

So it pains me to say that it's wrong. Our Modern Mussolini didn't fail to understand the reality of law. Rather he's incapable of forming the concept. We're dealing, in his case, with raw behavior, not immorality or even irrationality.

I almost said, raw behavioralism. Really, we've been unwilling participants in an experiment that no lab could conduct with human subjects. The law wouldn't allow such barbarism!

I've never been as pessimistic as many here regarding the Orange Object. He could only overreach himself, and clumsily. Smarter villains have done the same

Now I'm trying to imagine a dumber one. Can't do it.

TragicMonkey 15th June 2022 05:26 PM

He bought his own hype. Long before he ran for president.

Delvo 15th June 2022 07:16 PM

The law is bigger than Trump or any other individual. But when a single political party has all of the power, that party is bigger than the law, and then the law can only survive if that party allows it to. That's the problem with Trump; he can't ruin the country alone, but he's the figurehead of the party that's in the process of doing it right now with no real opposition, with or without his incompetence as an individual.

* * *

For anybody to fail at something, (s)he must have actually tried. That eliminates a lot of the possible suggestions for Trump's biggest failure, because he's mostly lived a life of no effort, including everything about his Presidency. That narrows it down to one or more of his various business failures. He really did want to be a successful businessman.

Jim_MDP 15th June 2022 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 13834318)
He bought his own hype. Long before he ran for president.

I still feel that maybe around his teen years, he fully bought into whatever name 'The Secret*' was going by back then. And has plowed ahead using those tenets ever since.
He is completely immune to outside reason or logic.


.

* That crap has been around for probably millienia. Wonder what the Greeks called it? :D

Jim_MDP 15th June 2022 09:38 PM

And yes, like Treb, my first thoughts ran to his three eldest sprogs... but I can't decide which will eventually turn out to be the worst

Norman Alexander 15th June 2022 09:46 PM

Trump's biggest mistake?

Having a psychopath for a father and Roy Cohn as a mentor.

Without them, he would have been just a failed grifter living comfortably in a trailer park wearing dirty underwear by now.

Stacyhs 15th June 2022 10:34 PM

Malignant narcissists/sociopaths can't be 'cured'. No amount of therapy would help Trump. He is what he is and always will be.

dann 16th June 2022 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13834197)
I'd say it's his failure to recognize how sick he is and get help.


For a looney, he is more than usually good at recruiting codependent people to help him confirm his delusions. In spite of the whole state apparatus getting involved, the Havana Syndrome delusion never spread to more than about 1,000 people. (I don't count the many Targeted Individuals who latched onto the idea. They only saw it as confirmation of the delusion they were already suffering.)

Quote:

Folie à deux ('folly of two', or 'madness [shared] by two'), also known as shared psychosis or shared delusional disorder (SDD), is a psychiatric syndrome in which symptoms of a delusional belief, and sometimes hallucinations, are transmitted from one individual to another. The same syndrome shared by more than two people may be called [b]folie à... trois[/i] ('three') or quatre ('four'); and further, folie en famille ('family madness') or even folie à plusieurs ('madness of several').
The disorder was first conceptualized in 19th-century French psychiatry by Charles Lasègue and Jules Falret and is also known as Lasègue–Falret syndrome.
Recent psychiatric classifications refer to the syndrome as shared psychotic disorder (DSM-4 – 297.3) and induced delusional disorder (ICD-10 – F24), although the research literature largely uses the original name.
Folie à deux (Wikipedia)

It is a very small thing in the big picture, but could any other politician before Trump have got away with the sharpie stunt?

dann 16th June 2022 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13834442)
Trump's biggest mistake?

Having a psychopath for a father and Roy Cohn as a mentor.

Without them, he would have been just a failed grifter living comfortably in a trailer park wearing dirty underwear by now.


I don't think wearing dirty underwear requires living in a trailer park.
His father's wealth is important, I think. Without it, he couldn't have paid so many people to confirm his ideas. He might have attempted to become a standard cult leader with a following of people believing that windmills cause cancer. Except that he wouldn't have had that idea without his golf investments.

dann 16th June 2022 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sackett (Post 13834313)
Really, we've been unwilling participants in an experiment that no lab could conduct with human subjects.


Some of us have been unwilling. The others seen him as their Messias.

dann 16th June 2022 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sackett (Post 13834298)
Re a well-written OT: Thump's wall would never have been built, but think how many cookies $30bn is. He could've bought friends, collaborators, stooges, judges, skull-crackers, and mail bombers.

Hell, he might even have bought laws.


Could've? He did!

dann 16th June 2022 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stellafane (Post 13834252)
I would phrase this as a failure to understand that the U.S.A. is a nation of laws.


Laws are something that applies to other people. And laws haven't managed to apply to him yet.

arayder 16th June 2022 04:51 AM

It was not was not strictly an on the job thing, but Trump's 2020 campaign was a wreck, IMHO.

He railed against mail in ballots instead of competing for them by encouraging Republicans to mail in votes and held those stupid rallies instead of making the effort to portray himself as hard working, caring president.

OK, the last one would have been a lie. But they easily could have run ads depicting Trump working with his shelves rolled up to get the vaccine completed and distributed.

-------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 367 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

Crazy Chainsaw 16th June 2022 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13834493)
Laws are something that applies to other people. And laws haven't managed to apply to him yet.

That's why his biggest Failure will be Trump VS USA. BLM was tipped off that if they didn't show on the 6th, Trump couldn't declare the Insurrection act, with only his supporters being Violent. He had to have the Antifa, BLM conflict for his plans to work. Without Antifa, BLM, Stewart Rhodes's Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys, were Cluster Fed.
Now we have the January 6th committee hope it wakes people up.
The Person that saved America from Trump will probably never be known and that's as it should be.

shemp 16th June 2022 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP (Post 13834435)
I still feel that maybe around his teen years, he fully bought into whatever name 'The Secret*' was going by back then. And has plowed ahead using those tenets ever since.
He is completely immune to outside reason or logic.


.

* That crap has been around for probably millienia. Wonder what the Greeks called it? :D

"Το μυστικό"?*

*Google translation.

dudalb 16th June 2022 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 13834318)
He bought his own hype. Long before he ran for president.

Trump's whole career is built on hype. People keep forgetting that.
The charecter of the grown up Biff in Back To The Future 2 was based on Trump.

Warp12 16th June 2022 11:51 AM

Probably his biggest failure was not conceding his election defeat, and more specifically the associated actions. He could have still lightly floated the idea moving forward, and probably with great result, but he took it too far.

Without that, I think he would have been hard to stop in 2024.

The Great Zaganza 16th June 2022 12:32 PM

I doubt that Trump has enough agency over his actions to do anything "right" or "wrong" - he is working completely on instinct, without the ability of self reflection.

Stacyhs 17th June 2022 12:47 AM

Trump's biggest failure


Don, Jr.?

Horatius 17th June 2022 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arayder (Post 13834546)
It was not was not strictly an on the job thing, but Trump's 2020 campaign was a wreck, IMHO.

He railed against mail in ballots instead of competing for them by encouraging Republicans to mail in votes and held those stupid rallies instead of making the effort to portray himself as hard working, caring president.

OK, the last one would have been a lie. But they easily could have run ads depicting Trump working with his shelves rolled up to get the vaccine completed and distributed.


Really, his whole handling of the pandemic, particularly in light of the election, is his greatest failure. Even with all the **** he screwed up, and the tanking economy, he still almost won the election in the Electoral College. If he'd just listened to the actual doctors and encouraged a proper response to COVID, I'm 99% sure he'd have legitimately won the election.

But for whatever reason, he couldn't bring himself to do that. Instead he kept doubling down on his irrational ********, and that cost him everything.

Darat 17th June 2022 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shemp (Post 13834177)
His biggest failure was being born. His mother should have aborted him.

I'd say that was his only success!

Crazy Chainsaw 17th June 2022 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13835443)
I'd say that was his only success!

No his biggest success was getting Oprah to put him on her show, that Increased his popularity and it's Oprah fans that still love him today, my Aunt was one of them before she passed of Covid 19.

slyjoe 17th June 2022 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP (Post 13834435)
I still feel that maybe around his teen years, he fully bought into whatever name 'The Secret*' was going by back then. And has plowed ahead using those tenets ever since.
He is completely immune to outside reason or logic.


.

* That crap has been around for probably millienia. Wonder what the Greeks called it? :D

At the time, probably "The Power of Positive Thinking".

Upchurch 17th June 2022 06:29 AM

I mean, in the latter part of his life, I'd say winning the Presidency in 2016 was his biggest failure. He meant to lose and use the faux outrage to launch his Trump TV network. He can't even lose correctly.

Now, he's in even a worse legal position than he had been in.

arayder 17th June 2022 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arayder (Post 13834546)
It was not was not strictly an on the job thing, but Trump's 2020 campaign was a wreck, IMHO.

He railed against mail in ballots instead of competing for them by encouraging Republicans to mail in votes and held those stupid rallies instead of making the effort to portray himself as hard working, caring president.

OK, the last one would have been a lie. But they easily could have run ads depicting Trump working with his shelves rolled up to get the vaccine completed and distributed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13835441)
Really, his whole handling of the pandemic, particularly in light of the election, is his greatest failure. Even with all the **** he screwed up, and the tanking economy, he still almost won the election in the Electoral College. If he'd just listened to the actual doctors and encouraged a proper response to COVID, I'm 99% sure he'd have legitimately won the election.

But for whatever reason, he couldn't bring himself to do that. Instead he kept doubling down on his irrational ********, and that cost him everything.

It's almost like he's compelled to say and do crazy things. I was surprised how little he relied on the traditional supports a President usually draws on . . .like cabinet members, his chief of staff, trusted congressmen and women and the rest.

He watched a lot of TV and surfed the net for ideas that his advisors had to spent hours talking him out of.

He couldn't even figure out how to use the power of his incumbency to make himself look competent.

-------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 368 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

Masque 17th June 2022 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upchurch (Post 13835466)
I mean, in the latter part of his life, I'd say winning the Presidency in 2016 was his biggest failure. He meant to lose and use the faux outrage to launch his Trump TV network. He can't even lose correctly.

I remember thinking, while seeing him on TV immediately after he was announced the winner in 2016, that I had never seen such a "deer in the headlights" look on the face of a politician. I think that, for a moment, the thought, "Holy ****** I can't do this!", might have gotten through to him. I was impressed by his resilience when, in the next couple of days, he appeared to either convince himself that he could handle the Presidency, or convinced himself that he could BS his way through it using his usual tools. Once his mental "defenses" had reasserted themselves, the history of his next four years was already written.

Masque 17th June 2022 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arayder (Post 13835504)
It's almost like he's compelled to say and do crazy things. I was surprised how little he relied on the traditional supports a President usually draws on . . .like cabinet members, his chief of staff, trusted congressmen and women and the rest.

To do that, he would need to be able to trust people enough to put them in positions where they might damage his image. He can't do that.

Upchurch 17th June 2022 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masque (Post 13835633)
I remember thinking, while seeing him on TV immediately after he was announced the winner in 2016, that I had never seen such a "deer in the headlights" look on the face of a politician. I think that, for a moment, the thought, "Holy ****** I can't do this!", might have gotten through to him.

This is not the face of a happy man
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Donal 17th June 2022 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upchurch (Post 13835466)
I mean, in the latter part of his life, I'd say winning the Presidency in 2016 was his biggest failure. He meant to lose and use the faux outrage to launch his Trump TV network. He can't even lose correctly.

Now, he's in even a worse legal position than he had been in.

He was screaming about voter fraud and a rigged election even before he was the nominee. He never had any intention of winning. He was just to position himself as a kingmaker within the party.

Stacyhs 17th June 2022 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donal (Post 13835665)
He was screaming about voter fraud and a rigged election even before he was the nominee. He never had any intention of winning. He was just to position himself as a kingmaker within the party.

I don't think that was his main objective. That was to get attention and to make money which are the two constants in his life.


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