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-   -   The behaviour of US police officers (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323251)

SuburbanTurkey 25th September 2020 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesjnr (Post 13236408)
Small point - he was not an injured protestor but still no more deserving of such treatment. The "good cops" that would have reported or, at least, remonstrated with him must have been elsewhere.

Much repeated but never cited. You say he's not injured and is doing some sort of passive resistance stunt. I trust you have evidence for this claim.

Earlier video shows the man on the ground and cops barking at street medic types to get back. Hard to say if injured or not. https://twitter.com/WarlockBranis/st...707983872?s=19

johnny karate 25th September 2020 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispy (Post 13236338)
Well, its OK then. :rolleyes:

Apparently, assault is perfectly acceptable as long as the victim is wearing the appropriate safety gear.

bluesjnr 25th September 2020 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13236415)
Much repeated but never cited. You say he's not injured and is doing some sort of passive resistance stunt. I trust you have evidence for this claim.

Earlier video shows the man on the ground and cops barking at street medic types to get back. Hard to say if injured or not. https://twitter.com/WarlockBranis/st...707983872?s=19

I, categorically, said he wasn't injured, no more, no less and no hint of his motivation. The words " passive", "resistance" & "stunt" do not exist in my post.

I'm not sure what his motivation was but can guess that your version looks fairly accurate from the video. Play it through slowly and you can see him lowering himself to the ground in the final act of prostrating himself as he comes in to view.

Please be aware I'm not remotely interested in a long protracted back and forth with you over this "small point". If you think I'm some sort of cop fan.........

SuburbanTurkey 25th September 2020 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesjnr (Post 13236702)
I, categorically, said he wasn't injured, no more, no less and no hint of his motivation. The words " passive", "resistance" & "stunt" do not exist in my post.

I'm not sure what his motivation was but can guess that your version looks fairly accurate from the video. Play it through slowly and you can see him lowering himself to the ground in the final act of prostrating himself as he comes in to view.

Please be aware I'm not remotely interested in a long protracted back and forth with you over this "small point". If you think I'm some sort of cop fan.........

Ok, so you don't know, and neither do I, that this person wasn't injured.

You know as well as I that right wingers online are asserting that this guy wasn't injured without a lick of evidence. If isn't the case, post a link.

Not that it really matters as to whether it's acceptable for a cop to intentionally assault a face down protestor

chrispy 25th September 2020 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13236731)
Ok, so you don't know, and neither do I, that this person wasn't injured.

You know as well as I that right wingers online are asserting that this guy wasn't injured without a lick of evidence. If isn't the case, post a link.

Not that it really matters as to whether it's acceptable for a cop to intentionally assault a face down protestor

*Boom* ...mic drop

bruto 25th September 2020 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13236731)
Ok, so you don't know, and neither do I, that this person wasn't injured.

You know as well as I that right wingers online are asserting that this guy wasn't injured without a lick of evidence. If isn't the case, post a link.

Not that it really matters as to whether it's acceptable for a cop to intentionally assault a face down protestor

To be fair, I thought bluesjnr made it pretty clear he thought the issue of injury irrelevant to the assertion that the cop did wrong.

bluesjnr 25th September 2020 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispy (Post 13236915)
*Boom* ...mic drop

Really?

Would you care to explain how and in what way I was shut up?

bluesjnr 25th September 2020 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13236916)
To be fair, I thought bluesjnr made it pretty clear he thought the issue of injury irrelevant to the assertion that the cop did wrong.

Thank you.

Rolfe 25th September 2020 03:33 PM

Has this one been discussed? Blond, all-American teenager shot while reversing his car out of his parents' garage, after the police were called to check on his safety in relation to some online posts he had just made. He had ADHD and it seems that there were fears that he might be a suicide risk.

So the cops shot him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54290575

quadraginta 25th September 2020 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolfe (Post 13236994)
Has this one been discussed? Blond, all-American teenager shot while reversing his car out of his parents' garage, after the police were called to check on his safety in relation to some online posts he had just made. He had ADHD and it seems that there were fears that he might be a suicide risk.

So the cops shot him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54290575


And the cop got $70,000 out of it.

Not bad for a few minutes work. No wonder it's so popular with the cop tribe.

And his friends, who called 911 for help to make sure he was okay ... I guess they won't make that mistake again.

Minoosh 25th September 2020 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolfe (Post 13236994)
Has this one been discussed? Blond, all-American teenager shot while reversing his car out of his parents' garage, after the police were called to check on his safety in relation to some online posts he had just made. He had ADHD and it seems that there were fears that he might be a suicide risk.

So the cops shot him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54290575

I wish there were broader coverage on other groups who might suffer from institutionalized violence, particularly the mentally ill. Fatal shootings involving black people seem to automatically gain traction as there is an organization that mobilizes to organize protests, often within hours. I'd like to see if there's a similar group that does this for the mentally ill. Not up for the research tonight but the National Alliance on Mental Illness would be a good place to start.

If you're black *and* mentally ill you're in real trouble.

Darat 26th September 2020 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 13237042)
And the cop got $70,000 out of it.



Not bad for a few minutes work. No wonder it's so popular with the cop tribe.



And his friends, who called 911 for help to make sure he was okay ... I guess they won't make that mistake again.

Should be enough for the police officer to get a new tattoo or his badge altered.

erlando 27th September 2020 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolfe (Post 13236994)
Has this one been discussed? Blond, all-American teenager shot while reversing his car out of his parents' garage, after the police were called to check on his safety in relation to some online posts he had just made. He had ADHD and it seems that there were fears that he might be a suicide risk.

So the cops shot him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54290575

I truly fail to understand why armed police are being sent to check on someone's mental health. It seems pretty obvious that sending someone armed with no specific training to handle mental health issues to "check" on a possibly outward reacting person having an incident is destined to end badly. Especially when that armed someone have been given the "I feared for my life"-pass to shoot anyone remotely threatening.

Damn....

Steve 28th September 2020 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlando (Post 13239070)
I truly fail to understand why armed police are being sent to check on someone's mental health. It seems pretty obvious that sending someone armed with no specific training to handle mental health issues to "check" on a possibly outward reacting person having an incident is destined to end badly. Especially when that armed someone have been given the "I feared for my life"-pass to shoot anyone remotely threatening.

Damn....

Increased opportunity to use their guns. Those things are damned expensive and need to be utilized as much as possible. As opposed to using their brains which are bargain basement priced and frequently non- functional above the primitive fear instinct that triggers the fight-or-flight reflex. Mentally compromised people are scary!

Darat 28th September 2020 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 13239352)
Increased opportunity to use their guns. Those things are damned expensive and need to be utilized as much as possible. As opposed to using their brains which are bargain basement priced and frequently non- functional above the primitive fear instinct that triggers the fight-or-flight reflex. Mentally compromised people are scary!

And it gives the new recruits a safer chance to gain their first kill so they can get a tattoo or their badge modified.

Steve 28th September 2020 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13239394)
And it gives the new recruits a safer chance to gain their first kill so they can get a tattoo or their badge modified.

Wonder if there is a special “shoot a looney” tat.

lobosrul5 28th September 2020 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlando (Post 13239070)
I truly fail to understand why armed police are being sent to check on someone's mental health. It seems pretty obvious that sending someone armed with no specific training to handle mental health issues to "check" on a possibly outward reacting person having an incident is destined to end badly. Especially when that armed someone have been given the "I feared for my life"-pass to shoot anyone remotely threatening.

Damn....

This is why cities like Austin are moving some funds around from police to other resources. The state and police unions respond with...

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/09...austin-police/

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/lo...3-b60da8c11498

quadraginta 28th September 2020 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 13239352)
Increased opportunity to use their guns. Those things are damned expensive and need to be utilized as much as possible. As opposed to using their brains which are bargain basement priced and frequently non- functional above the primitive fear instinct that triggers the fight-or-flight reflex. Mentally compromised people are scary!


Which is why I am always concerned for my safety when cops are around.

(Oh. You were talking about the victims of the cops, weren't you. Sorry. :o)

Matthew Best 29th September 2020 05:48 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/us/californi...police-reports

Police say they didn’t know it was wrong to lie in police reports.

Darat 30th September 2020 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 13241435)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/californi...police-reports

Police say they didn’t know it was wrong to lie in police reports.

Fox has lifted most of their article from the Orange County newspaper, the OC paper has a lot more detail and is well worth a read.

https://www.ocregister.com/oc-sherif...it-was-illegal

Not only does it show how widespread the problem was it also shows how even now in the light of publicity the state is still trying to minimise any charges and the like for the police.

ETA

Quote:

Unaware of state law?
Atkinson and Simpson told grand jurors during Mora’s hearing that they had never been trained on a Penal Code section making it illegal to falsely write in their reports that they had booked evidence — typically guns, drugs, money and photos.

Special prosecutor Patrick K. O’Toole told grand jurors that he gave the plea deal to Atkinson and Simpson partially because they had not been informed of the Penal Code section for lying on a official report.

“So I let them plead to the less serious charge because I thought it was justified under the circumstances,” O’Toole told the jurors. “And I think you will recall also their testimony that, not that ignorance of the law is any excuse, but they had never heard of this government code section before, or I don’t think any of these people ever thought the Penal Code section applies to them in what they are doing.”

... snip...
So he agrees that ignorance of the law is not an excuse but then adds a huge BUT because the police officers claimed they didn't know about the law they weren't really being naughty, just a bit cheeky.

I would love to see a defending attorney when O'Toole was prosecuting someone for say a drug offence ask the accused have they been trained and told about the precise section of law that their alleged offence breaks...

Planigale 30th September 2020 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 13241435)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/californi...police-reports

Police say they didn’t know it was wrong to lie in police reports.

I may not have gone through training at a Police academy, or continued professional training as a LEO, but I know that you do not lie in official reports, and that chain of custody is essential to prevent contamination of evidence. You cannot help think there is something more than inefficiency if you have drugs and drug apparatus kicking around in the back of your police cruiser for a month.*

ETA
I wonder whether the US plea deal system is partly to blame. Most people on a 'minor' drug charge will accept a plea deal and so long as the evidence is said to be present in the police report it will never have to be presented as evidence in court. So the physical evidence can be recycled and only need to be booked in if it looks like the case will be contested.

SuburbanTurkey 30th September 2020 04:21 AM

The problem of known liar cops staying on the police force is so common in the US there are lists known as "Brady" or "Giglio" lists. DA's won't call officers on these lists because they know that their past history of lying in court will make their testimony worthless. The DA is required to disclose Brady status to defense attorneys, so it's easier to just never build a case that relies on the testimony of a Brady cop.

It seems to me that a cop that can't testify in court because the defense will easily smear them as known liars is someone who shouldn't be a cop anymore.

For example, there are at 23 Massachusetts state police listed on the Suffolk County (Boston metro) Brady/Giglio list.

https://www.wbur.org/news/2020/09/25...dibility-brady

Darat 30th September 2020 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planigale (Post 13241771)
I may not have gone through training at a Police academy, or continued professional training as a LEO, but I know that you do not lie in official reports, and that chain of custody is essential to prevent contamination of evidence. You cannot help think there is something more than inefficiency if you have drugs and drug apparatus kicking around in the back of your police cruiser for a month.*

ETA
I wonder whether the US plea deal system is partly to blame. Most people on a 'minor' drug charge will accept a plea deal and so long as the evidence is said to be present in the police report it will never have to be presented as evidence in court. So the physical evidence can be recycled and only need to be booked in if it looks like the case will be contested.

I suspect that is the case. The USA appears (as a generalisation) to have allowed plea bargaining to become the prosecuting SOP rather than reserve it for exceptional circumstances.

Darat 30th September 2020 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13241919)
The problem of known liar cops staying on the police force is so common in the US there are lists known as "Brady" or "Giglio" lists. DA's won't call officers on these lists because they know that their past history of lying in court will make their testimony worthless. The DA is required to disclose Brady status to defense attorneys, so it's easier to just never build a case that relies on the testimony of a Brady cop.

It seems to me that a cop that can't testify in court because the defense will easily smear them as known liars is someone who shouldn't be a cop anymore.

For example, there are at 23 Massachusetts state police listed on the Suffolk County (Boston metro) Brady/Giglio list.

https://www.wbur.org/news/2020/09/25...dibility-brady

Wow - that is very damning. As you say how can you have a police officer that can't be believed (beyond a reasonable doubt) in a trial?

I really can see why the cry is "defund" the police, when departments and the entire service is full of - to be frank criminals I think it is apparent that the service can't police itself, never mind provide police for the public.

Suddenly 30th September 2020 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13241954)
Wow - that is very damning. As you say how can you have a police officer that can't be believed (beyond a reasonable doubt) in a trial?

.

It isn't so much that as there are prosecutors who take their ethical duties seriously enough to not put cops on the stand that have been known to lie.

Most prosecutors take a more willfully ignorant stance on the issue.

SuburbanTurkey 30th September 2020 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suddenly (Post 13241988)
It isn't so much that as there are prosecutors who take their ethical duties seriously enough to not put cops on the stand that have been known to lie.

Most prosecutors take a more willfully ignorant stance on the issue.

Unfortunately, no. Prosecutors have to disclose these cops because of SCOTUS ruling in Brady v Maryland, in which a conviction was overturned because prosecutors did not turn over exculpatory evidence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_v._Maryland

Ethics has very little to do with it, prosecutors just don't want to give these defendants an easy appeal route. Usually these lists are not freely given to the public. This list for Boston was disclosed against the prosecutors will under the state's record law.

Suddenly 30th September 2020 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13241995)
Unfortunately, no. Prosecutors have to disclose these cops because of SCOTUS ruling in Brady v Maryland, in which a conviction was overturned because prosecutors did not turn over exculpatory evidence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_v._Maryland

Ethics has very little to do with it, prosecutors just don't want to give these defendants an easy appeal route.

Legal theory is nice, but unless prosecutors are going to take the ethical duty seriously, so what. In the real world there are a ton of runarounds and gray areas that can be exploited to not do this and the ramifications for non-compliance are rare as usually such evidence will not come to light and if it does a reviewing court will tend to not be enthusiastic about reversing a conviction.,

That is if the case has long enough of a sentence for anyone to care. It can take years to develop this sort of case, and much of the time by then the person has discharged the sentence. There is also no constitutional right to counsel as to this, although many jurisdictions will appoint counsel for post conviction matters beyond basic appeals.

It is good that some states are trying to require lists and some more progressive prosecutors are taking initiative. They are being..... ethical.

chrispy 1st October 2020 09:25 AM

I don't remember seeing this story posted in this thread. Happened a few weeks back. The story is that a hotel manager called the police because a man pulled a gun on them. The responding officer made contact and was given the description of a white male. He then proceeded to hold a black employee at gunpoint while telling him that he matched the description. And, no, the employee wasn't even mixed race like me. He was Black. Investigation underway, and I haven't been able to locate a follow up story.

Also, theis cops attitude is everything about why people hate the cops.

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-so...-white-suspect

Full video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlO_5C4Zzik

erlando 1st October 2020 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispy (Post 13243438)
I don't remember seeing this story posted in this thread. Happened a few weeks back. The story is that a hotel manager called the police because a man pulled a gun on them. The responding officer made contact and was given the description of a white male. He then proceeded to hold a black employee at gunpoint while telling him that he matched the description. And, no, the employee wasn't even mixed race like me. He was Black. Investigation underway, and I haven't been able to locate a follow up story.

Also, theis cops attitude is everything about why people hate the cops.

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-so...-white-suspect

Full video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlO_5C4Zzik

Holy **** that cop is itching to shoot someone. Also he *really* wants to go home to his family. Nevermind the innocent people he points his gun at and yells at.

He will soon get his first kill.

Babbylonian 1st October 2020 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlando (Post 13243564)
Holy **** that cop is itching to shoot someone. Also he *really* wants to go home to his family. Nevermind the innocent people he points his gun at and yells at.

He will soon get his first kill.

Encounters two black people while hunting a white suspect, treats both like garbage. Checks out

Also, **** this **** where cops get control of their bodycams. There remains no good excuse for any on-duty cop to shut off their camera unless they are literally sitting on a toilet.

chrispy 1st October 2020 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlando (Post 13243564)
Holy **** that cop is itching to shoot someone. Also he *really* wants to go home to his family. Nevermind the innocent people he points his gun at and yells at.

He will soon get his first kill.

Yeah, he is a terrifying individual. How the hell did this guy pass his Psych Evals?

chrispy 1st October 2020 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babbylonian (Post 13243583)
Also, **** this **** where cops get control of their bodycams. There remains no good excuse for any on-duty cop to shut off their camera unless they are literally sitting on a toilet.

^^^ This x 100

ponderingturtle 1st October 2020 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispy (Post 13243652)
Yeah, he is a terrifying individual. How the hell did this guy pass his Psych Evals?

Why is that even a question? He is just what they look for. This is someone who aces a killology class.

chrispy 1st October 2020 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13243659)
Why is that even a question? He is just what they look for. This is someone who aces a killology class.

True enough. But man did he seem itchy and unhinged.

catsmate 1st October 2020 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolfe (Post 13236994)
Has this one been discussed? Blond, all-American teenager shot while reversing his car out of his parents' garage, after the police were called to check on his safety in relation to some online posts he had just made. He had ADHD and it seems that there were fears that he might be a suicide risk.

So the cops shot him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54290575

Yeah, I saw that. Some utter ******* murderous scum in US police uniforms.

Trebuchet 1st October 2020 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispy (Post 13243438)
I don't remember seeing this story posted in this thread. Happened a few weeks back. The story is that a hotel manager called the police because a man pulled a gun on them. The responding officer made contact and was given the description of a white male. He then proceeded to hold a black employee at gunpoint while telling him that he matched the description. And, no, the employee wasn't even mixed race like me. He was Black. Investigation underway, and I haven't been able to locate a follow up story.

Also, theis cops attitude is everything about why people hate the cops.

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-so...-white-suspect

Full video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlO_5C4Zzik

Description: White male in a black shirt.
Guy held at gunpoint: Black male in a white shirt. It's SO easy to get confused.

Matthew Best 1st October 2020 05:23 PM

Louisiana State Trooper caught on tape admitting he "beat the ever-living f--- out of” a man killed in what police called "a car crash".

https://apnews.com/article/us-news-a...c9e980ab7228c5

chrispy 2nd October 2020 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispy (Post 13243438)
Investigation underway, and I haven't been able to locate a follow up story.

I did find a follow up from last week. $2.5 million lawsuit by man held at gunpoint.

ETA: Forgot link

https://www.azfamily.com/news/black-...1186618e2.html

The Atheist 2nd October 2020 07:26 PM

Pregnant woman?

Kneel on the bitch!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americ...n-by-us-police

bluesjnr 3rd October 2020 01:36 AM

Here is an interesting one from youtuber Donut Operator. He is an ex LEO who features videos showing things from a police perspective. Lots of interesting stuff here, so much so that I, who is avowedly anti-cop, feel sorry for the officers concerned.

I'd be a liar if I didn't say that I think the cops acted with a level of constraint way beyond that expected (and that I would be capable of).

Lastly, I've noticed the tactic of going to "I can't breathe", is something I'm seeing more often.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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