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-   -   Covid-19 and Politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342577)

P.J. Denyer 30th June 2020 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 13142455)
"About 4,000 people raved in Daisy Nook [June 13th, Manchester area] that night. Meanwhile, another 2,000 people attended a “quarantine rave” in Carrington, 15 miles away. Similar raves have popped up throughout June. Staffordshire: 1,000 people raved in Brookhay Woods, near Lichfield. Liverpool: hundreds of revellers danced to house music in a forest near Kirkby. Bristol: 1,000 people gathered in Stokes Croft. Leeds: police shut down a rave in an underpass of the M1 motorway as shocked motorists watched participants flood on to the road ..."

Not just insanity but willful insanity.

As Brit expats aiming to return to the UK soon we've been checking the situation in Wales, our destination. Today I visited a certain Welsh tourism website and its headline said "Visit Wales. Later". Damn right, and it suggested that hotel bookings etc might resume in mid-July. Given that flights to the UK won't be resuming until then, at best, it doesn't hamper our plans any more than they're already hampered (that's to say considerably, as our buyers are Belgian).

Right now I'm thinking that Greece would be nuts to allow the resumption of tourism by the English, especially given the shocking performance at Bournemouth beach a few days back and other examples of total disregard for the health of others such as the raves above. But, of course, a UK passport doesn't mention which home country you're from.


A lot of people believe Boris about how well the pandemic has been handled and brought under control (they listen to 'feeleys' not the numbers) and the fantastic new drug (which might save 10%). The problem when you keep telling people how wonderfully you're controlling a pandemic is that some people get the crazy idea the pandemic is under control.

Rolfe 30th June 2020 11:49 AM

The "fantastic new drug" is a bog-standard anti-inflammatory that has been around since before I was a student. "Nothing should die without benefit of steroids" was a common quip early in my career. It's arguably over-used so I guess it was sensible to do a trial to make sure it was really beneficial, but it should have been used a priori from the start. It's a bit like headlines saying great breakthrough we've discovered that giving oxygen to covid patients saves quite a few.

Pixel42 30th June 2020 12:00 PM

US buys up world stock of key Covid-19 drug

Quote:

The US has bought up virtually all the stocks for the next three months of one of the two drugs proven to work against Covid-19, leaving none for the UK, Europe or most of the rest of the world.

Experts and campaigners are alarmed both by the US unilateral action on remdesivir and the wider implications, for instance in the event of a vaccine becoming available. The Trump administration has already shown that it is prepared to outbid and outmanoeuvre all other countries to secure the medical supplies it needs for the US.

“They’ve got access to most of the drug supply [of remdesivir], so there’s nothing for Europe,” said Dr Andrew Hill, senior visiting research fellow at Liverpool University.

Trebuchet 30th June 2020 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pixel42 (Post 13142911)

And are going to charge $3120 for a course of treatment that remains unproven.

lomiller 30th June 2020 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pixel42 (Post 13142911)

Void the patent and have local companies sell it as a generic.

Blue Mountain 30th June 2020 03:13 PM

What's interesting is the 2019 Global Health Security Index rated 195 countries on their preparedness to handle a pandemic. At the top were the United States in the number one spot and the UK in number two.

What the rankings failed to take into account was the quality of political leadership in the various countries. As we've seen, despite being the best prepared neither country had the best response.

Garrison 30th June 2020 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pixel42 (Post 13142911)

Well be fair given how badly its going in the USA they are probably going to need it the most...

Rolfe 30th June 2020 04:17 PM

That's the stuff that shortens recovery time by a few days for seriously ill patients, but doesn't actually stop anyone from dying? I think this is more of a problem for people who might need the drug for other conditions it's actually helpful for.

Rolfe 30th June 2020 05:18 PM

The Guardian have excelled themselves. Looking for "spikes" they've published a map with regions coloured scary-purple if they've had an increase of over 100% last week compared to the week before. Scotland looks terrible. Stirling, Aberdeenshire and Dumfries and Galloway are all shown as having spiking cases.

Rising coronavirus infections in pockets of UK raise fears of further local lockdowns

Stirling had one case two weeks ago and three last week (after several weeks of none at all and none so far this week either).
Aberdeenshire went from four cases to five cases which is only a 25% increase so I don't know what they're on about.
Some idiot statistician dumped ten lost cases from April into D&G's stats for 19 June (after a week of no cases at all) so that goes purple too, although come to think of it the way they've split the weeks it really goes from 10 to 1, not from 1 to 10 so again what gives?

They're suggesting D&G might be about to be locked down on that basis! Also Lanarkshire. North Lanarkshire had seven cases last week, down from nine the week before. South Lanarkshire had 11 cases last week down from 17 the week before. So according to the Grauniad, local lockdowns are imminent.

Leicester had 944 cases in two weeks, about 450 of them last week. Someone at the Guardian needs a remedial course in statistical interpretation. (Of course they couldn't simply say in the headling that "Rising coronavirus infections in pockets of England raise fears of further local lockdowns", could they?)

Trebuchet 30th June 2020 05:26 PM

Lies, damned lies, and statistics!

Rolfe 30th June 2020 05:38 PM

It's pretty embarrassing. I mean you'd think someone would notice. We had a week with no cases at all, then one case the following week then three the next. OMG cases are spiking, they more than doubled in a week, we need a lockdown! I don't think so.

Modified 30th June 2020 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolfe (Post 13143223)
It's pretty embarrassing. I mean you'd think someone would notice. We had a week with no cases at all, then one case the following week...


I hope they used a really scary color for that infinite increase.

Delphic Oracle 30th June 2020 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolfe (Post 13143152)
That's the stuff that shortens recovery time by a few days for seriously ill patients, but doesn't actually stop anyone from dying? I think this is more of a problem for people who might need the drug for other conditions it's actually helpful for.

It is a thing people will cling to for hope and Trump will dangle as a treat to Governors who dance to his tune. It will get his followers to pressure those Governors. If some disparity in outcomes results, he'll say it was because of following his plan (and almost certainly red state/blue state implications for the election).

P.J. Denyer 1st July 2020 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolfe (Post 13142895)
The "fantastic new drug" is a bog-standard anti-inflammatory that has been around since before I was a student. "Nothing should die without benefit of steroids" was a common quip early in my career. It's arguably over-used so I guess it was sensible to do a trial to make sure it was really beneficial, but it should have been used a priori from the start. It's a bit like headlines saying great breakthrough we've discovered that giving oxygen to covid patients saves quite a few.

Thanks for this, I knew it was enormously overhyped but I didn't realise quite how much. It just struck me how much people were acting like 'oh well that's all over then'.

Mind you the woman I'm most thinking of I only knew because I found her dog in the middle of the road when I was working, no lead, no collar. So I got my dogs back in the car, grabbed a spare lead, dodged the cars to catch it and get it to a safe place, found there was no collar or tag so started stopping and asking any of the locals that went past if they recognised it, eventually someone did and said he'd knock on her door on his way past.

I had to get on with my work so my wife drove out to wait with the dog while I called the client I had planed to pick up from to explain and say I'd have to be with them later, and went on to my next job and my wife waited about another half hour until this woman arrived (bare in mind we didn't even know she was home and would be on the way).

Flash forward to last week and in between expressing how wonderful it is that Boris' Wonder Drug will save us all complains that my wife was going to take her uncollared, untagged dog to the pound and says "lucky my neighbour came and told me, I suppose he was the real hero"

So that's her grasp of reality anyway.

Sorry, OT, just wanted to vent!

The Don 1st July 2020 05:36 AM

If Sir Keir Starmer was accurate when he questioned Boris Johnson in PMQs today, it's not comfortable reading:

Quote:

"Now, three-quarters of people with Covid-19 are not being reached. How does the prime minister explain that?" asks Labour's Keir Starmer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-p...ost_type=share

Doesn't sound much like a "world beating" track and trace system to me :mad:

Rolfe 1st July 2020 05:43 AM

Where did this "track and trace" thing even come from. The system that is required is test, trace and isolate. (More comprehensively, find, test, contact-trace, isolate and support.) There's no "track" involved, which is a term more appropriately applied to the identification of chains of viral transmission by RNA sequencing.

It makes it sound like an Amazon parcel. It completely ignores the testing and isolation parts. It's almost as if someone wants to confuse the public.

zooterkin 1st July 2020 05:45 AM

Some of the ‘pillar 2’ (private testing) data is now available it seems, but it hasn’t been provided to local authorities in a timely manner to let them actually deal with the outbreaks.

More hotspots in the North of England, mainly in areas with high numbers of BAME people.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y-and-rochdale

Rolfe 1st July 2020 05:48 AM

I think Starmer is right. The reports of what's going on in Leicester suggest that any contact tracing is more of a token gesture. I'm not massively confident that Scotland has it right either, but the situation in England is a serious cause for concern.

When you consider that countries that suppressed this virus into oblivion by contact tracing, then re-opened slowly and carefully, still experienced sudden spreading clusters of infection they struggled to contain, what hope is there that a second wave in England can be avoided? Now I fully appreciate that these countries I mentioned have contained these clusters. My point is that they struggled, despite having platinum-plated contact tracing systems that many people criticise as over-intrusive. Opening up like it was Mardi Gras with barely a token gesture to contact tracing is a recipe for disaster.

The Don 1st July 2020 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolfe (Post 13143607)
I think Starmer is right. The reports of what's going on in Leicester suggest that any contact tracing is more of a token gesture. I'm not massively confident that Scotland has it right either, but the situation in England is a serious cause for concern.

When you consider that countries that suppressed this virus into oblivion by contact tracing, then re-opened slowly and carefully, still experienced sudden spreading clusters of infection they struggled to contain, what hope is there that a second wave in England can be avoided? Now I fully appreciate that these countries I mentioned have contained these clusters. My point is that they struggled, despite having platinum-plated contact tracing systems that many people criticise as over-intrusive. Opening up like it was Mardi Gras with barely a token gesture to contact tracing is a recipe for disaster.

The basic problem is that Boris Johnson is fantastically lazy and so will do the absolute minimum to appear to be doing something.

That kind of attitude permeates and so that's the kind of solution that gets put in place, something superficially impressive which would only deliver anything of value accidentally. The government's contract tracing is exactly that and as an added bonus, lines the pockets of Boris Johnson's chums.

The Don 1st July 2020 06:13 AM

An article from the British Medical Journal from a UK doctor which is very critical of the NHS Test and Trace system.

Quote:

Official figures just released suggest Test and Trace was unable to trace one third of those who tested positive (and thus their contacts, too) between 28 May and 3 June. However, Independent Sage labelled Hancock’s claim that 85% of contacts had been traced as “deeply misleading” since Test and Trace entirely missed 75% of all new symptomatic cases during this time.
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2471

Captain_Swoop 1st July 2020 06:21 AM

Marston's boss says their pubs won't be collecting contact details, stopping people 'propping up the bar' or making his staff wear masks when the pubs re-open.

The Don 1st July 2020 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13143619)
Marston's boss says their pubs won't be collecting contact details, stopping people 'propping up the bar' or making his staff wear masks when the pubs re-open.

I hope that their customers bear this in mind when the decide which, if any, pubs they decide to frequent.

Contrast that with the approach adopted by a Bristol pub I know:

Quote:

Please be aware of some new rules that we’ll all be following, and follow instructions from staff as well as paying attention to informational signage throughout the venue.

Firstly, we must ask that you do not come to the pub if you are feeling unwell.

Please take note of the pub’s opening times, which may change in this initial reopening period.

When you arrive at the pub, you’ll be greeted by a member of staff and shown to a table. To maintain social distancing, we’ve had to reduce our capacity and so we strongly advise booking in advance, but of course there’s no problem in popping along and seeing if we can fit you in! Please contact the pub directly for more information on booking.

For inside seating, we can accept a maximum of 2 households per table, and for outside booking we can accept 2 households or mixed groups of up to six people. Please make use of the hand sanitizer available; our staff will be keeping all surfaces clean and disinfected regularly.

All orders will be taken at the table and we ask that you do not approach the bar.
.....and so it goes on

https://www.facebook.com/AlmaTavernAndTheatre/

Rolfe 1st July 2020 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13143604)
Some of the ‘pillar 2’ (private testing) data is now available it seems, but it hasn’t been provided to local authorities in a timely manner to let them actually deal with the outbreaks.

More hotspots in the North of England, mainly in areas with high numbers of BAME people.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y-and-rochdale


That's rather better researched than the mince in that earlier article I linked to last night in which Stirling was highlighted as being a red zone because its infection rate had tripled - I checked the data and a week with one case was followed by a week with three cases. In the entire region. They named Dumfries and Galloway as heading for a lockdown, probably based on the fact that after a week of no cases at all the region recorded ten cases the following week - due to old data from April being added to the system on the Friday of that week. (D&G may be having a small cluster at the moment, one case then suddenly five cases, but still penny numbers. You do not lock down because six cases appeared in a very rural area.)

Maybe they found someone on the staff who isn't entirely innumerate.

jimbob 1st July 2020 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolfe (Post 13143600)
Where did this "track and trace" thing even come from. The system that is required is test, trace and isolate. (More comprehensively, find, test, contact-trace, isolate and support.) There's no "track" involved, which is a term more appropriately applied to the identification of chains of viral transmission by RNA sequencing.

It makes it sound like an Amazon parcel. It completely ignores the testing and isolation parts. It's almost as if someone wants to confuse the public.

And there was and indeed still is the infrastructure that has been used successfully in other outbreaks for contact tracing. Namely environmental health officers. But they have generally been ignored.

The Don 1st July 2020 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13143754)
And there was and indeed still is the infrastructure that has been used successfully in other outbreaks for contact tracing. Namely environmental health officers. But they have generally been ignored.

Doing something quietly using existing public sector resources would be something someone who wanted to address an issue quickly and cost effectively would do.

If you wanted instead to make a grand statement and then line the pockets of your friends then you'd build something complicated from scratch and contract out the whole thing. :mad:

Rolfe 1st July 2020 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13143754)
And there was and indeed still is the infrastructure that has been used successfully in other outbreaks for contact tracing. Namely environmental health officers. But they have generally been ignored.


This is an interesting article about the divergence between Scotland and England and notes that Scotland has always used the local authority infrastructure and it still is. The numbers of contacts traced per case are quite low so I'm still a bit dubious about this (but having said that we've only just started to come out of lockdown) but they do seem to be having some success.

Scotland could eliminate the coronavirus – if it weren't for England

The cluster that has emerged in the south-west of Scotland is apparently a cross-border issue centred in Annan and Gretna. Only nine cases so far, all in isolation and contacts being traced. This sort of thing is inevitable and it doesn't need to involve England at all - there's still virus present in Scotland. However bandying around words like despicable, astonishing, shameful and racist when a political leader merely doesn't rule out some border controls if the situation worsens is absolutely sickening.

Every country larger than a tennis court is operating some internal border controls to combat this virus, but apparently Scotland, the supposedly valued equal partner in this cherished union (remember "lead us, dont leave us"?) has to allow English tourists to re-seed virus all over the country.

Captain_Swoop 1st July 2020 04:05 PM

A number of councils including Tory run ones now complaining to UK health ministry they do not have access to credible local Coronavirus stats in order to make decisions regarding mitigating action even tho they know these stats exist within central govt.

Rolfe 1st July 2020 05:08 PM

I'm just surprised it took them so long to notice. This problem has been evident for weeks if not months.

It's pretty frightening. If you go back to The Hammer and the Dance, the point of the Hammer is not that this alone will solve your coronavirus problem, it's to give a country that was unprepared and hence overwhelmed a second chance. The hammer both brings viral prevalence back down to a level where it can realistically be contained and gives time for the country to prepare, and most specifically to prepare what is needed for the Dance.

What is needed for the Dance is a robust, rapid and reliable find, test, contact-trace, isolate and support operation. Which England quite clearly does not have.

For weeks during lockdown Johnson did nothing at all, leading to many people assuming that he had only locked down to give the NHS a bit of a breather before embarking on the second wave in the futile pursuit of the mis-named "herd immunity". Although the WHO criteria for lifting lockdown included having sufficient TTI capability, England's did not. Instead all that was required was that there was room in the hospitals for more sick and dying people. "Off you go to the pub then, there's room for you now in intensive care" was the quip. But as this time wore on it became more and more obvious from events abroad that a TTI system was really essential. So Johnson did his usual thing of announcing that England was going to have the best one in the world, ignored the LA public health experts who are the nucleus of building such a system, contracted it out to his mates, and opened up anyway before it was even ready never mind tested to see if it could cope.

Reading accounts of how TTI works in countries that are actually beating the virus, we see a number of essential components. One is getting people with clinical signs tested within hours, and another is interviewing them about their contacts as soon as possible and identifying and isolating these contacts within about 24 hours. And above all, getting everyone. There's no point in doing a stellar job of contact tracing on ten new cases if there are actually several hundred new cases you don't know about.

This is what has been going on. I said the other day that there must have been a superspreader event in Leicester to have caused these numbers of cases, but apparently this is thought not to have been the case. There was simply so much virus already in circulation when restrictions were eased that it more or less picked up right where it had left off. It's been known for four weeks that virus was freely circulating there, but nothing has been done. The people doing the contact tracing have not even been told who has tested positive so they can start to do their job.

Leicester is by far the worst, but there are numerous other large towns in England in a similar situation. The way this is going these places are simply a bit earlier on the same curve as Leicester. There doesn't seem to be a hope in hell of contact-tracing in these places, so cases are bound to increase. The R number is probably well above 1 already.

We've also seen from experience abroad that even countries that have well and truly crushed the virus with military-grade testing and tracing systems that pay scant regard to civil liberties have experienced spreading new clusters of disease that they're struggled to contain even with these super-efficient systems.

The point about the Dance is that if infection starts to spread again you have to re-impose some restrictions to get R back down below 1. I can't see Johnson doing that. First he opens the country when infection is widespread meaning that it's going to be far harder to contain spread to R~1 than if it was more contained, then he does it without a functioning TTI operation, then he pretty much paints himself into a corner on not reintroducing restrictions. That isn't dancing, that's Texas. Meanwhile Scotland seems to be successfully dancing for now, and with a much lower viral prevalence and contact tracing teams under local authority control, has a significantly better chance of making it work.

This is going to get very ugly indeed in a few weeks time, and I don't think it's either deplorable, or shameful, or astonishing, or racist, to want to keep options open as regards border controls with a country that's heading where England is heading.

P.J. Denyer 1st July 2020 06:10 PM

I'm so glad I'm not in the pub game anymore. Reopening on a Saturday is insane. The forecast is for showers, which, while it may mean less demand could also mean that all the people who agree to sit in pub gardens will make a rush for the bar when the rain starts. I wouldn't want to be the bar staff tasked with stopping them, especially if it holds off long enough for a few pints first...

zooterkin 2nd July 2020 12:37 AM

Some analysis of the cases in Leicester - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ays-phe-report

Quote:

A rapid investigation into the Covid-19 outbreak in Leicester by Public Health England has revealed it has been driven by increased infections in the under-19s and people of working age, while the average age of those infected is around 40.

The proportion of infections among under-19s had fallen to around 5% in mid-May after the initial epidemic peak, the report published on Wednesday revealed. But it has since risen to 15% and the proportion of positive tests in working age people has also risen to the same amount.

The finding has prompted calls from the epidemiologists who carried out the study for further research to explore whether the return of children to school is connected to the growth in infections, although there is as yet no analytical link. The trends have not been observed in other parts of the east Midlands or related travel areas.

The Don 2nd July 2020 01:10 AM

Schools in England are going to reopen full time in September.

Apparently the combination of relaxing social distancing, treating individual years as bubbles in school (but clearly that's impossible at home as soon as siblings return from school), different start times and so on will magically stop the spread of Coronavirus.

The Government needs positive headlines and they don't care whose lives (apart from their own) they have to risk to get them. :mad:

The Don 2nd July 2020 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13144457)
Some analysis of the cases in Leicester - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ays-phe-report

Quelle surprise :rolleyes:

Kids going back to school and people returning to work resulted in a spike in infections among those two populations.

The government hasn't given sufficiently good guidance on how to make schools and workplaces safe. The idea that just staying 2 metres apart will somehow protect people if they're sharing the same indoor workspace is, IMO, laughable.

Captain_Swoop 2nd July 2020 02:34 AM

Dozens of countries will be exempt from a travel quarantine from Monday, UK government sources have indicated.

Now government sources have indicated that a very long list of countries is likely to be published by the end of this week.

It is possible that up to 75 countries deemed low or very low risk will be exempt from the UK's quarantine from Monday, 6 July.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53261752

Rolfe 2nd July 2020 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13144457)
Some analysis of the cases in Leicester - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ays-phe-report


That's interesting. And worrying. It's clear the virus has been circulating pretty freely in Leicester for weeks, and who knows about other towns. This is not the place to be when you're opening up. The place to be is that you're poised to jump on every new case and contact-trace it into oblivion. To contain any clusters that pop up so that the virus doesn't get a hold in the wider community. Opening up when the virus already has a hold in the wider community is suicidal.

Contrast the cluster in Annan and Gretna. Nine cases. (Only seven in the reported stats so two must only have been identified yesterday.) The first of these cases was reported on Monday of this week. Three days ago. They're on it. Everyone is at home isolating and the contacts are being tracked down. I imagine the people involved in the English side of the cluster (Longtown?) are being treated the same way. That's how you try to do it. I don't think they have a hope in hell in Leicester unless they lock down a lot harder, and how are they going to do that unless they put a police cordon round the area 24/7?

And by the way let's not blame English visitors for the Annan/Gretna cluster. I'd bet very heavily on this being caused by Scots travelling south to visit the flesh-pots of Carlisle, given that Carlisle is open and Annan and Dumfries are still closed - or were until Monday. Yes we need some sort of control on the border, but it's as much to keep Scots living in virus-free areas from going to the pub in an infected area as it is to control virus introduction by tourists coming north.

Pixel42 2nd July 2020 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13144512)
Dozens of countries will be exempt from a travel quarantine from Monday, UK government sources have indicated.

Now government sources have indicated that a very long list of countries is likely to be published by the end of this week.

It is possible that up to 75 countries deemed low or very low risk will be exempt from the UK's quarantine from Monday, 6 July.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53261752

But will they exempt the UK from their quarantine list?

Not needing to quarantine when I get back doesn't help me to go on holiday if I have to quarantine for the entire 14 days I'm away.

catsmate 2nd July 2020 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13144468)
Schools in England are going to reopen full time in September.

Apparently the combination of relaxing social distancing, treating individual years as bubbles in school (but clearly that's impossible at home as soon as siblings return from school), different start times and so on will magically stop the spread of Coronavirus.

The Government needs positive headlines and they don't care whose lives (apart from their own) they have to risk to get them. :mad:

How is this supposed to be possible? Children will move around, interact with each other, share teachers, use common spaces like libraries, gymnasiums, canteens, corridors....

Darat 2nd July 2020 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13144592)
How is this supposed to be possible? Children will move around, interact with each other, share teachers, use common spaces like libraries, gymnasiums, canteens, corridors....

If Eton can do it....

The Don 2nd July 2020 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13144592)
How is this supposed to be possible? Children will move around, interact with each other, share teachers, use common spaces like libraries, gymnasiums, canteens, corridors....

As I understand it, the intention is that they use shared spaces at the same time and in the cases of libraries, gyms and canteens perhaps not at all. The school will be turned on its head and instead of students going to different rooms, they will stay in the same room - potentially with the same teacher.

Of course that doesn't help for some subjects which require specialist equipment and doesn't acknowledge teaching specialities but I expect that most of the people making these proposals and the decisions read Classics, PPE or some other subject where you didn't need a lab. :rolleyes:

catsmate 2nd July 2020 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13144512)
Dozens of countries will be exempt from a travel quarantine from Monday, UK government sources have indicated.

Now government sources have indicated that a very long list of countries is likely to be published by the end of this week.

It is possible that up to 75 countries deemed low or very low risk will be exempt from the UK's quarantine from Monday, 6 July.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53261752

But will they reciprocate?

The Don 2nd July 2020 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13144616)
But will they reciprocate?

From that linked BBC story:

Quote:

Some of the countries on this new list do still have restrictions on people travelling in the other direction, from the UK.
I guess the answer is "not necessarily".

If I was a country, like New Zealand, with a low to zero incidence of Coronavirus, I wouldn't want Brits wandering round unless they had been through quarantine - not least because they'd have just spent the best part of 24 hours sharing air with a few hundred fellow disease vectors travellers.

OTOH, I'd be fine with some kiwis entering the UK without quarantine though with the pubs not needing too many staff and Premiership Rugby reducing the salary cap, I'm not sure why they'd want to come here :p


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