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-   -   Covid-19 and Politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342577)

The Atheist 24th March 2020 07:44 PM

Oh, and here's a positive for you - while Covid has killed 7000 Chinese, it might have saved ten times that number: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcm.../#6ae836ce34fe

Darat 24th March 2020 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susheel (Post 13031267)
Seems like the lockdown is going to serve as an opportunity for police excess and targeted harassment.


But is it one they are going to take up?

Susheel 24th March 2020 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13031658)
But is it one they are going to take up?

Already begun in Delhi and various areas that were hotspots for the anti CAA/NRC movement.

Davidlpf 24th March 2020 10:55 PM

Does Trump really think that he can schedule the end of the pandemic to Easter Sunday, it would be nice but it is not up to us.

The Atheist 24th March 2020 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidlpf (Post 13031781)
Does Trump really think that he can schedule the end of the pandemic to Easter Sunday, it would be nice but it is not up to us.

Plays really well to his evangelical base, though.

What could be more appropriate for god's chosen people to resurrect their nation on the day Jesus didn't rise from the dead?

gypsyjackson 25th March 2020 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13031203)
Indeed, I just had to fix the overflow on the kitchen sink, needed bits from B&Q otherwise no kitchen sink!

I took the opportunity here to fix a couple of leaking bidet hoses - toilet paper shortage not a problem any more.

The Don 25th March 2020 12:58 AM

It's not surprising, but it seems that the epicentre of our local outbreak of Coronavirus is the local hospital - The Royal Gwent.

The only fatality in our local town contracted Coronavirus in hospital and the only people we know personally who may have had Coronavirus (though due to a lack of testing there's no certainty) had recently visited that hospital.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...marita-edwards

Sherkeu 25th March 2020 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13031804)
Plays really well to his evangelical base, though.

What could be more appropriate for god's chosen people to resurrect their nation on the day Jesus didn't rise from the dead?

Perhaps it is my background in Purchasing but I think..."oh man, if Easter doesn't sell, no one will have money to place orders for July 4...Halloween may not have enough design time, and the Olympics are a total bust.". The summer stuff is generic so can be more last minute.

High dollar orders will be a sign that things will get back to normal soon. China generally has a lead time of 90-120 days from order to delivery.

steenkh 25th March 2020 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13030437)
This is another post that would better fit in the US politics thread, rather than the non-US one.


I think that in this sub-forum, the USA should be treated as part of the world, and be admissible. Only posts that are exclusively dealing with the USA should be moved. It does not make sense that it is inadmissible to compare politics of the USA and other countries.

William Parcher 25th March 2020 04:12 AM

BBC: Prince Charles tests positive.

ceptimus 25th March 2020 04:21 AM

Prince Charles has been tested for COVID-19 (he has mild symptoms and has tested positive). There still aren't any tests available for doctors and nurses nor for any normal person without very severe symptoms - but things are different when you're royal.

William Parcher 25th March 2020 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceptimus (Post 13031987)
but things are different when you're royal.

As it should be.

Britain is to have Royalty who are treated differently, or they are to have no Royalty at all.

Take your choice.

ceptimus 25th March 2020 04:40 AM

We're all in this together. Except that we aren't.

Squeegee Beckenheim 25th March 2020 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceptimus (Post 13031987)
Prince Charles has been tested for COVID-19 (he has mild symptoms and has tested positive). There still aren't any tests available for doctors and nurses nor for any normal person without very severe symptoms - but things are different when you're royal.

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/statu...66248410218498

Quote:

Although people are rightly angry there are not enough tests for NHS and other key workers, the notion the Prince of Wales should not have been tested is ludicrous. I detest the monarchy as a system of govít, but he is - rightly or wrongly - the successor for Head of State.

Darat 25th March 2020 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13032046)


And we have more than one spare, he is hardly unique.

Davidlpf 25th March 2020 07:10 AM

Well the Prime Minister of Canadas wife has Covid-19 as well and the PM has been social distancing as well. I don't think people who don't show signs of the virus should be tested that would just be wasteful.

Squeegee Beckenheim 25th March 2020 07:44 AM

This twitter thread about how the UK government is failing to protect frontline medical staff, and failing to follow WHO's advice is infuriating. Worth reading the whole thing (it's short), but the key points are: a British company making a rapid test is exporting them because it can't sell them to the NHS here; a company who makes PPE has also been turned down for selling them to the NHS, while NHS staff have inadequate PPE and are being told to share masks; WHO is urging countries to test as many people as possible, yet the UK is only testing people admitted to hospital, is not testing NHS staff, and even abandoned all together for a period of time.

Ivor the Engineer 25th March 2020 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13032217)
This twitter thread about how the UK government is failing to protect frontline medical staff, and failing to follow WHO's advice is infuriating. Worth reading the whole thing (it's short), but the key points are: a British company making a rapid test is exporting them because it can't sell them to the NHS here; a company who makes PPE has also been turned down for selling them to the NHS, while NHS staff have inadequate PPE and are being told to share masks; WHO is urging countries to test as many people as possible, yet the UK is only testing people admitted to hospital, is not testing NHS staff, and even abandoned all together for a period of time.

While there are undoubtedly stupid things happening and pen-pushers are slowing things down by complaining about the correct forms not being filled in, I imagine the problems are more complicated than the media are leading us to believe.

The government has no interest in dragging this out or otherwise cocking it up.

Everybody's an expert bar the poor bugger who has to do the job...

Squeegee Beckenheim 25th March 2020 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer (Post 13032242)
While there are undoubtedly stupid things happening and pen-pushers are slowing things down by complaining about the correct forms not being filled in, I imagine the problems are more complicated than the media are leading us to believe.

The government has no interest in dragging this out or otherwise cocking it up.

Everybody's an expert bar the poor bugger who has to do the job...

Boris Johnson has had months to prepare. Xi Jinping phoned him personally in the middle of January and explained to him what to expect and what needed to be done to prepare for and mitigate the crisis. He ignored it.

It seems to me that getting a supply of equipment from a supplier who is offering it to recipients who need it is something that should take a few days at most to sort out.

That said, this report suggests that millions of home testing kits will be available in the UK within the week, if they are validated as being effective.

P.J. Denyer 25th March 2020 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceptimus (Post 13031987)
Prince Charles has been tested for COVID-19 (he has mild symptoms and has tested positive). There still aren't any tests available for doctors and nurses nor for any normal person without very severe symptoms - but things are different when you're royal.


Presumably he will treat it with homeopathy and alternate medicine? [/sarcasm]

ceptimus 25th March 2020 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13032280)
Presumably he will treat it with homeopathy and alternate medicine? [/sarcasm]

I'm certain he will receive the best, and most expensive, treatment that taxpayers' money can buy.

This virus is obviously so trendy that only rich and famous people can catch it and need to be tested. Us plebs just get the flu.

Darat 25th March 2020 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13032217)
This twitter thread about how the UK government is failing to protect frontline medical staff, and failing to follow WHO's advice is infuriating. Worth reading the whole thing (it's short), but the key points are: a British company making a rapid test is exporting them because it can't sell them to the NHS here; a company who makes PPE has also been turned down for selling them to the NHS, while NHS staff have inadequate PPE and are being told to share masks; WHO is urging countries to test as many people as possible, yet the UK is only testing people admitted to hospital, is not testing NHS staff, and even abandoned all together for a period of time.

You mean only testing people admitted to hospital and Prince Charles.

The Don 25th March 2020 09:24 AM

In the UK off-licences have been added to the list of essential shops:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52033260 (link currently borked)

crescent 25th March 2020 11:36 AM

Not sure if this has been shared yet:

Q: What do you call a libertarian in a pandemic?

A:
A vector.

Captain_Swoop 25th March 2020 12:27 PM

G7 leaders can't agree on coronavirus statement because Pompeo pushing to call it "Wuhan virus"

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...atement-report

Planigale 25th March 2020 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13032217)
This twitter thread about how the UK government is failing to protect frontline medical staff, and failing to follow WHO's advice is infuriating. Worth reading the whole thing (it's short), but the key points are: a British company making a rapid test is exporting them because it can't sell them to the NHS here; a company who makes PPE has also been turned down for selling them to the NHS, while NHS staff have inadequate PPE and are being told to share masks; WHO is urging countries to test as many people as possible, yet the UK is only testing people admitted to hospital, is not testing NHS staff, and even abandoned all together for a period of time.

This is untrue. The NHS has bought the test dependant on it being validated. The test is currently being assessed for its reliability, but the NHS does have a contract. First priority is for testing NHS staff. Our hospital is expecting thousands of these tests next week. Developing a new test for a new disease and validating then mass producing it does not happen instantly.

There needs to be some pragmatism here. The first cases of what was to be called Covid 19 were identified in December 2019. By the end of January the Chinese had sequenced and released the RNA of the novel corona virus. This was the first date when testing kits could start being developed. We are less than 8 weeks on. In that time they have to have been developed validated and mass produced to a high standard. The machines that do the test have a limited number of tests they can do at a time. They take several hours to do the test. The number of machines has been increasing around the country. But there are still limits on the test, do you just test well but worried NHS staff or do you test patients? You cannot do both. I do have an issue with our local system the scientists doing the tests aren't doing runs overnight, I think they could do so and double our local capacity but this seems to fall foul of some long standing union / employer issue. We are getting a new machine next week that should quadruple our capacity, but the companies making the analysers are having to cope with a surge of demands globally.

There is not enough high level PPE kit for everyone for everything. I don't think that some of the people sounding off on twitter know what they are talking about. You do not need to dress up in a space suit to take blood from a covid positive patient who is not coughing or sneezing. Yes some health care staff have caught covid, but it is just as likely they caught it from social interaction like most people, as at work when they are being cautious.

Yes it is good to test as many people as possible but if you look at the numbers tested they are not orders different across countries. The testing is being ramped up but for highly sophisticated and entirely novel tests that takes time. Just think what a disaster it would be if a widely unreliable test was rushed in to please the media.

Planigale 25th March 2020 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13032590)
G7 leaders can't agree on coronavirus statement because Pompeo pushing to call it "Wuhan virus"

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...atement-report

If true, pathetic; there is an agreed official name SARS-CoV-2.

Planigale 25th March 2020 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13032301)
You mean only testing people admitted to hospital and Prince Charles.

The problem is that people admitted to hospital need multiple tests. More than one negative test is needed to exclude the infection, and allow people out of isolation. (Important to allow access to other tests for other conditions.) Also they need at least two negative tests to confirm they are no longer infectious if they are going home to a household with a high risk member e.g. over 70 which many are since many admitted are elderly and they can't go home to their elderly partner if still infectious even if well enough to leave hospital.

The Don 25th March 2020 01:06 PM

Reportedly, the Coronavirus test being used by the NHS is only 75%-80% accurate. Even after 2 or 3 tests, there's still a reasonable chance that someone positive could still test negative.

dudalb 25th March 2020 01:08 PM

And more idiocy from the President of Mexico:''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-life-as-usual

He's the left wing answer to right wing Moron in Brazil.
And more proof that Populist are bad news, no matter left or right.

Planigale 25th March 2020 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13032627)
Reportedly, the Coronavirus test being used by the NHS is only 75%-80% accurate. Even after 2 or 3 tests, there's still a reasonable chance that someone positive could still test negative.

Unfortunately true. So we are doing multiple tests (at least two per person) which of course limits the number of people we can test.

The Atheist 25th March 2020 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13032631)
And more proof that Populist are bad news, no matter left or right.

Hey, we finally agree 100% on something!

Captain_Swoop 25th March 2020 02:15 PM

Trump Tweets

The LameStream Media is the dominant force in trying to get me to keep our Country closed as long as possible in the hope that it will be detrimental to my election success. The real people want to get back to work ASAP. We will be stronger than ever before!

Ivor the Engineer 25th March 2020 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13032735)
Trump Tweets

The LameStream Media is the dominant force in trying to get me to keep our Country closed as long as possible in the hope that it will be detrimental to my election success. The real people want to get back to work ASAP. We will be stronger than ever before!

...because all the weak Americans will be dead.

ChristianProgressive 25th March 2020 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13031652)
Don't be!

Come and have a good rant in the Covid rant thread.

There are so many things that make me furious about the entire cock-up that I'm a frequent visitor.

Governments are showing how completely worthless they are when faced with an unexpected crisis.

Broad brush fallacy

Darat 25th March 2020 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13032335)
In the UK off-licences have been added to the list of essential shops:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52033260 (link currently borked)


What a surprise, addicts will risk anything.

The Atheist 25th March 2020 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive (Post 13032775)
Broad brush fallacy

No, just factual when looking at government responses to Covid-19.

So far, South Korea, China (belatedly) and probably Germany, have acted sensibly and fast, then take a look at the calibre of their leadership compared to the countries doing appallingly: Italy, USA, NZ, Australia, Spain, UK, Brazil and a whole long list of others.

Planigale 25th March 2020 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planigale (Post 13020778)
Famously Ian Donald the inventor of ultrasound and an obstetrician needed a ventilator for a sick baby, went home and built one in his garden shed over the weekend. Ventilators are not complex they are basically servo controlled fans. I bet Dyson could make excellent ventilators.
https://history.rcplondon.ac.uk/insp...ans/ian-donald

And some people mocked me!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52043767
Quote:

Government orders 10,000 ventilators from Dyson

Captain_Swoop 25th March 2020 03:33 PM

Ordering and producing are different things. What is the lead time on this?

Mader Levap 25th March 2020 04:54 PM

Also Dyson sounds better (closer) than car factory. Less different.

In fact, I think Dyson already does ventilators, just not medical ones. Even less different. Not that it is easy, mind you, but it is nowhere close to "cars to medical ventilators" nonsense peddled by some.


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