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The Don 6th December 2021 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673456)
Does anyone remember when Conservative Governments supported the Rule of Law?

Maybe in public, but as far as I can remember they've always been flexible when it's come to the better sort of people

3point14 6th December 2021 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673456)
Does anyone remember when Conservative Governments supported the Rule of Law?

They pretty much have always supported the rule of laws. Where there's one for them and one for everyone else.

Mojo 6th December 2021 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673164)
Boris Johnson is planning to let ministers throw out legal rulings they disagree with, according to a report which has increased fears that the government is determined to weaken judicial scrutiny after a series of defeats in court.

An ally of the prime minister told the Times that the judicial review and courts bill going through parliament “doesn’t go far enough” for the prime minister, who is considering an option, drawn up by the lord chancellor, Dominic Raab, and the attorney general, Suella Braverman, which would enable it to strike out findings from judicial reviews with which the government does not agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-disagree-with


They’re going FOTL: “I do not consent!”

Mojo 6th December 2021 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673164)
Boris Johnson is planning to let ministers throw out legal rulings they disagree with, according to a report which has increased fears that the government is determined to weaken judicial scrutiny after a series of defeats in court.

An ally of the prime minister told the Times that the judicial review and courts bill going through parliament “doesn’t go far enough” for the prime minister, who is considering an option, drawn up by the lord chancellor, Dominic Raab, and the attorney general, Suella Braverman, which would enable it to strike out findings from judicial reviews with which the government does not agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-disagree-with

Then there will be no law.
On the threshold of full-blown dictatorship.


From The Times’ coverage of the same story (front page of today’s paper):
Quote:

Whitehall sources argue that the bills would reinforce the constitutional principle that parliament is sovereign over the unelected judiciary.

“Whitehall sources” that don’t know the difference between the legislature and the executive. Parliament is sovereign over the judges, and can overrule them by passing legislation. Our elected representatives, voting on legislation. But the cabinet is not above the law.

The Don 7th December 2021 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 13673562)
From The Times’ coverage of the same story (front page of today’s paper):


“Whitehall sources” that don’t know the difference between the legislature and the executive. Parliament is sovereign over the judges, and can overrule them by passing legislation. Our elected representatives, voting on legislation. But the cabinet is not above the law.

Don't know the difference, or know the difference but want to hoodwink the public into allowing the cabinet to overrule the courts ?

Ordinarily, I'd assume ignorance and incompetence from this government, but they've breached behavioural norms too many times to make this one not a deliberate action. They've repeatedly shown that they don't want to be constrained by parliament or the courts, this is the logical next step. :(

Captain_Swoop 7th December 2021 04:53 AM

Sally Nugent BBC Breakfast - "Would you support an official investigation into the party at No.10 that broke covid rules?"

Kit Malthouse ( Minister of State for Crime and Policing) - "I've been assured no rules were broken, I don't even know if an event took place, but if it did no rules were broken."

Captain_Swoop 7th December 2021 04:55 AM

My friend wasn’t driving the car, and I wasn’t in at at the time, but if he was he wasn’t drunk, and if I was, I didn’t know that he was driving or drunk.

'there was no party'
'there was no party but it followed guidelines'
'ok there was a party but it was in the past so it doesn't matter'
'vaccines, getting the job done, levelling up, war on drugs'

Captain_Swoop 7th December 2021 04:57 AM

Ros Atkins BBC News tweeted

@BBCRosAtkins
The government says “there was not a party” at No 10 last December and that no COVID rules were broken. A week into the story, this is a new 5-min video on the gap between the government’s assurances and available evidence. Produced by Michael Cox.

https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59532066

Captain_Swoop 7th December 2021 06:07 AM

Dominic Raab tweeted

@DominicRaab
United Kingdom government official
· 4h
Today I’m setting out my plan to build state of the art jails that incarcerate dangerous offenders and reform the regime in prison to get offenders off drugs and into work – to cut re-offending and keep the public safe.



Just as soon as the 40 new hospitals are finished.

The Don 7th December 2021 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673898)
Dominic Raab tweeted

@DominicRaab
United Kingdom government official
· 4h
Today I’m setting out my plan to build state of the art jails that incarcerate dangerous offenders and reform the regime in prison to get offenders off drugs and into work – to cut re-offending and keep the public safe.


Just as soon as the 40 new hospitals are finished.

The government has lowered the bar as to what constitutes a new hospital so far that changing one of the vending machines from Coke to Pepsi now counts.:rolleyes:

Darat 7th December 2021 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673898)
Dominic Raab tweeted

@DominicRaab
United Kingdom government official
· 4h
Today I’m setting out my plan to build state of the art jails that incarcerate dangerous offenders and reform the regime in prison to get offenders off drugs and into work – to cut re-offending and keep the public safe.



Just as soon as the 40 new hospitals are finished.

They said they were doing that 10 years ago....

Perhaps reducing actual staffing by 30%, reassigning prison officer's roles to OSGs, closing down in house workshops and training, removing in house medical services and so on didn't work....

Worm 7th December 2021 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673898)
Dominic Raab tweeted

@DominicRaab
United Kingdom government official
· 4h
Today I’m setting out my plan to build state of the art jails that incarcerate dangerous offenders and reform the regime in prison to get offenders off drugs and into work – to cut re-offending and keep the public safe.

Ok - I'm intruiged - what was the previous plan?

sphenisc 7th December 2021 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worm (Post 13673949)
Ok - I'm intruiged - what was the previous plan?

More Christmas parties at Downing Street.

Darat 7th December 2021 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worm (Post 13673949)
Ok - I'm intruiged - what was the previous plan?

It was to downgrade the POs contracts, move many of their responsibilities to cheaper OSGs, and have their mates build private prisons which would be cheaper and better!

That has been as successful as you can imagine.
G4S stripped of contract to run Birmingham prison

Most violent prison in England and Wales returned to public control on permanent basis

Captain_Swoop 7th December 2021 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13673953)
It was to downgrade the POs contracts, move many of their responsibilities to cheaper OSGs, and have their mates build private prisons which would be cheaper and better!

That has been as successful as you can imagine.
G4S stripped of contract to run Birmingham prison

Most violent prison in England and Wales returned to public control on permanent basis

But the money was transferred from public to private which is what counts.

The Don 7th December 2021 10:06 AM

For some reason Northern PowerGrid send me updates about power outages - presumably my email is on record with respect to Daddy Don's now closed account.

There are a lot of unplanned outages due to Storm Barra:

https://www.northernpowergrid.com/power-cuts

Carrot Flower King 7th December 2021 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13673905)
They said they were doing that 10 years ago....

Perhaps reducing actual staffing by 30%, reassigning prison officer's roles to OSGs, closing down in house workshops and training, removing in house medical services and so on didn't work....

Nor did cutting NHS and other drug and alcohol services...Nor prison health services provided by the NHS...

Amazing how all this cutting of services hasn't made staff some much more wonderfully efficient and able to do twice as much work as their previous stupidly high caseloads...

Especially with all those incredibly intelligent managers who have brilliant answers to questions like the one I asked regularly, "OK, if you want to do all those extra things, what do you want me to stop doing, given my caseload already exceeds agreed guidelines?" The answers were so sodding brilliant that they must have burned out my memory, as I just cannot recall what I was told...

Captain_Swoop 7th December 2021 12:29 PM

Latest in 'PM not involved in evacuating animals from Afghanistan ahead of people'

Theo Usherwood Political Editor LBC tweeted
@theousherwood
At lunchtime Number 10 said a whistleblower’s claim the PM and his wife were involved in the evacuation of Nowzad staff was “untrue”.
Just been passed a letter from the PM’s PPS Trudy Harrison to Pen Farthing to confirm Nowzad staff could travel to the airport to be evacuated.

Captain_Swoop 7th December 2021 12:31 PM

the thing about the Downing St Christmas party is that it was after the Barnard Castle escapade, it's as if they'd learned nothing.

ETA.

I take that back, they learned that there are no consequences.

Nessie 7th December 2021 01:02 PM

https://www.itv.com/news

"ITV News has obtained a leaked video showing Downing Street staff laughing about a party which was allegedly held in Number 10 last Christmas."

At the moment, it appears the claim is a cheese and wine amongst people who were working together. The law stated 3 or more people could not gather indoors to socialise, but they can to work. So, they may try to argue they could work and do a bit of cheese and wine, and maybe some cocaine, and not break the rules.

Captain_Swoop 7th December 2021 01:08 PM

Oz Katerji tweeted

@OzKaterji
· 49m
Here is how Britain’s head of state marked the funeral of the man she had been married to for 73 years. It might not seem immediately obvious in the reaction to news that the Prime Minister was throwing parties at Number 10 during that period, but I have a feeling this matters.

https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status...98704197140485

picture in link

Carrot Flower King 7th December 2021 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13674197)
Latest in 'PM not involved in evacuating animals from Afghanistan ahead of people'

Theo Usherwood Political Editor LBC tweeted
@theousherwood
At lunchtime Number 10 said a whistleblower’s claim the PM and his wife were involved in the evacuation of Nowzad staff was “untrue”.
Just been passed a letter from the PM’s PPS Trudy Harrison to Pen Farthing to confirm Nowzad staff could travel to the airport to be evacuated.

What I heard BlowJob say on R4 was along the lines of he hadn't directly ordered this to happen...

I can think of soooooooo many ways ("Will no-one rid me of this troublesome priest?", much of The Sopranos) of making clear what needs to be done without directly stating it.

Twisting, devious bastard.

Captain_Swoop 7th December 2021 03:01 PM

Tory Gavin Williamson hosted party as millions of Brits faced Christmas Covid ban misery
The Mirror can reveal another top Tory broke Covid party rules at Christmas as then Education Secretary Gavin Willamson hosted a 'reckless' bash during the ban on socialising

London was in Tier 2 – which banned any social mixing between households – on December 10 last year when up to two dozen of Mr Williamson’s staff gathered in the Department for Education cafe for “drinks and canapes”.
The former Cabinet minister delivered a short speech at the evening event before officials and ministers knocked back glasses of wine.

Tonight the DfE did not deny Covid rules had been broken and admitted “it would have been better” not to have held the event while the rest of the country was banned from doing so.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...party-25641812

I'm not buying this one.
The idea that anyone would go to a party hosted by Gavin Williamson.
I mean, come on.

Captain_Swoop 7th December 2021 04:04 PM

Bloody Hell!

I didn’t think the revolution would be led by Ant and Dec!!

Calling Boris out on live primetime TV.

https://twitter.com/imacelebrity/sta...29208749465606

Video in link!

dudalb 7th December 2021 04:24 PM

Any reaction from Bojo on the growing Ukraine crisis?

commandlinegamer 7th December 2021 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 13674224)
https://www.itv.com/news
At the moment, it appears the claim is a cheese and wine amongst people who were working together. The law stated 3 or more people could not gather indoors to socialise, but they can to work. So, they may try to argue they could work and do a bit of cheese and wine, and maybe some cocaine, and not break the rules.

A bit of back-and-forth between lawyerly types on Twitter suggesting it technically may not have been a breach of regulations.

Regardless, the optics are poor.

junkshop 7th December 2021 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer (Post 13674367)
A bit of back-and-forth between lawyerly types on Twitter suggesting it technically may not have been a breach of regulations.

Regardless, the optics are poor.

Not 'technically' a breach if their [current] version of what occurred is true. Given their track record, I don't think I'm unreasonable in being dubious of the...accuracy of their recollection of events.

The Don 7th December 2021 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13674199)
the thing about the Downing St Christmas party is that it was after the Barnard Castle escapade, it's as if they'd learned nothing.

ETA.

I take that back, they learned that there are no consequences.

Yes, exactly! :mad:

As the BBC points out, there are a lot of MPs who feel that they owe their seat to Boris Johnson's popularity and so he's safe as houses. Some of the advisors will have to go but he'll be fine.

Many anti-mask Tories are happy because this means that even if Plan B is activated, any restrictions will be in effect optional.

wobs 8th December 2021 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13674514)
Yes, exactly! :mad:

As the BBC points out, there are a lot of MPs who feel that they owe their seat to Boris Johnson's popularity and so he's safe as houses. Some of the advisors will have to go but he'll be fine.

Many anti-mask Tories are happy because this means that even if Plan B is activated, any restrictions will be in effect optional.

I read one anti-mask MP describing such measures would be "advisory". A more ironic choice of word I could not imagine.

Lothian 8th December 2021 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer (Post 13674367)
A bit of back-and-forth between lawyerly types on Twitter suggesting it technically may not have been a breach of regulations.

Regardless, the optics are poor.

I think there have alternated between denials that the rules were broken and denials of any party.
Without seeing the technical arguments I don't know if they are right (probably wouldn't know if I did see them!)
But where a load of people are having cheese and wine, playing party games and wearing Xmas jumpers that to me technically sounds like a party.

The Don 8th December 2021 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothian (Post 13674539)
I think there have alternated between denials that the rules were broken and denials of any party.
Without seeing the technical arguments I don't know if they are right (probably wouldn't know if I did see them!)
But where a load of people are having cheese and wine, playing party games and wearing Xmas jumpers that to me technically sounds like a party.

AIUI, the rules stated that people should work from home unless there was no alternative. People working at 10 Downing Street likely fit into that category.

I suppose the defence is that they were working close to Christmas, that refreshments were supplied for the hard working people, but that any activities that sound like a party (music, games and so on) were spontaneous and took into account social distancing. Utter rubbish I know, but it may just convince enough people to keep Boris Johnson in his job. :rolleyes:

Darat 8th December 2021 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothian (Post 13674539)
I think there have alternated between denials that the rules were broken and denials of any party.
Without seeing the technical arguments I don't know if they are right (probably wouldn't know if I did see them!)
But where a load of people are having cheese and wine, playing party games and wearing Xmas jumpers that to me technically sounds like a party.

Or also known as Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday in the PM's office.

(Obviously, no one works the weekend, and Friday you are being driven or flown down to one of your country homes and Monday you need to get over your hangover.)

Captain_Swoop 8th December 2021 04:17 AM

A video obtained by ITV shows senior No 10 staff joking about holding a Christmas party - days after one was held there during lockdown.
The PM's then-press secretary Allegra Stratton is asked by colleagues about reports of a party, as they rehearse a news conference in December last year.
In jokey exchanges, she says: "This fictional party was a business meeting and it was not socially distanced."

In the clip, obtained by ITV, Ms Stratton responds in a playful tone to questions from colleagues pretending to be journalists.
Special adviser to the prime minister, Ed Oldfield, asks her about reports of a party in Downing Street "on Friday night".
In reply, Ms Stratton says: "I went home" and then pauses.
After Mr Oldfield follows up to question if the prime minister would "condone" a Christmas party, Ms Stratton asks: "What's the answer?"
When another aide jokes that "it wasn't a party, it was cheese and wine", she laughs and asks "is cheese and wine all right?", adding: "This fictional party was a business meeting and it was not socially distanced."

In response to the clip, No 10 said: "There was no Christmas party. Covid rules have been followed at all times."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59572149

The Don 8th December 2021 04:21 AM

This made me laugh....

Quote:

Backbench Tory MP Roger Gale says he felt "incredulity" when the video of No 10 aides joking about a Christmas party at Downing Street emerged yesterday.

He says there was "hollow mirth and complete bewilderment" in the parliamentary tea room when the news broke and he hopes that by Prime Minister's Questions at midday Boris Johnson will be able to clear up what happened.

"I think the prime minister has to come to the despatch box today and either stand by the Downing Street line and say that there was no party - and if he says on the record that there was no party I will believe him because of course to mislead the House of Commons would be a very serious offence indeed
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/5957...ost_type=share

Hahahahahahahaha !!!!

Has he not heard Boris Johnson at all in the last few years ? The man lies as easily as he breathes and has repeatedly and demonstrably mislead the House in the past.

The Don 8th December 2021 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13674558)
A video obtained by ITV shows senior No 10 staff joking about holding a Christmas party - days after one was held there during lockdown.
The PM's then-press secretary Allegra Stratton is asked by colleagues about reports of a party, as they rehearse a news conference in December last year.
In jokey exchanges, she says: "This fictional party was a business meeting and it was not socially distanced."

In the clip, obtained by ITV, Ms Stratton responds in a playful tone to questions from colleagues pretending to be journalists.
Special adviser to the prime minister, Ed Oldfield, asks her about reports of a party in Downing Street "on Friday night".
In reply, Ms Stratton says: "I went home" and then pauses.
After Mr Oldfield follows up to question if the prime minister would "condone" a Christmas party, Ms Stratton asks: "What's the answer?"
When another aide jokes that "it wasn't a party, it was cheese and wine", she laughs and asks "is cheese and wine all right?", adding: "This fictional party was a business meeting and it was not socially distanced."

In response to the clip, No 10 said: "There was no Christmas party. Covid rules have been followed at all times."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59572149

Is the defence going to be that Ms Stratton's comments should be ignored because she was only joking prior to an interview ?

The police must a record of the comings and goings that evening and the officers on duty doubtless have opinions about the state of the alleged party-goers as they left the building.

IMO Boris Johnson will manage to wriggle off the hook yet again. Ms Stratton will apologise (and perhaps have to resign) because of that ill-judged "joke" but otherwise the claim will be that there was no party, only hard-working people who had to be in 10 Downing Street who may, or may not, have had some refreshments. :mad:

Darat 8th December 2021 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13674566)
Is the defence going to be that Ms Stratton's comments should be ignored because she was only joking prior to an interview ?

The police must a record of the comings and goings that evening and the officers on duty doubtless have opinions about the state of the alleged party-goers as they left the building.

IMO Boris Johnson will manage to wriggle off the hook yet again. Ms Stratton will apologise (and perhaps have to resign) because of that ill-judged "joke" but otherwise the claim will be that there was no party, only hard-working people who had to be in 10 Downing Street who may, or may not, have had some refreshments. :mad:

But they don't investigate crimes that happened in the past.

The Don 8th December 2021 04:29 AM

It also looks like the government is adopting a "Brave Sir Robin" approach until they manage to concoct a narrative which is consistent with the known facts and which keeps them in the clear.

Quote:

Several ministers cancelled scheduled appearances on radio and TV this morning with the BBC and other broadcasters, leaving the media unable to ask them about the Downing Street video.

BBC Radio 4's Today programme had been due to feature Health Secretary Sajid Javid on the day that booster jabs are being brought forward for over-40s and on the anniversary of the first Covid vaccine being administered.

But presenter Nick Robinson said they were told just minutes after the emergence of the video that no minister would be available.

A minister was also due to appear on BBC Breakfast, but cancelled with no replacement offered.

Mr Javid also cancelled appearances on Times Radio and Sky News.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/5957...ost_type=share

Darat 8th December 2021 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13674569)
It also looks like the government is adopting a "Brave Sir Robin" approach until they manage to concoct a narrative which is consistent with the known facts and which keeps them in the clear.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/5957...ost_type=share

One would hope that they needed to spend more time with their family....

Lothian 8th December 2021 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13674570)
One would hope that they needed to spend more time with their family....

Or mistress, gigolo or someone else's family, as the case may be.

The Don 8th December 2021 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothian (Post 13674572)
Or mistress, gigolo or someone else's family, as the case may be.

Maybe the next stage will be to insist that this "Christmas Party Witch-hunt" is illegal because it compromises the alleged attendees' privacy and civil rights under the ECHR..... :rolleyes:


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