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-   -   General UK politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346868)

GlennB 11th May 2021 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13477016)
Today a lady wearing a diamond hat announced bills that introduce

Voter suppression
Reduction in judicial review of government actions
Oppressive policing

Not to mention opening up the countryside to aggressive property development. The CPRE are raging about it.

Roll on Welsh independence! (as long as they let the furriners stay)

Archie Gemmill Goal 11th May 2021 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13476970)
I cannot in anyway disagree and have felt for a very long time that this is the case.

When you lot get independence I really do hope the berks in That There London **** up the geography and use Hadrian's Wall, despite my previous semi-cynical comment aboput being ignored from Holyrood (reflected a couple of conversations I had in Sutherland and Wester Ross as well as English experience).

Nothing to stop 'The North' becoming an independent country either. Just need to foster that movement for a while. It's a pity that a lot of the people in that region seem to be drinking the posh boy KoolAid though.

Archie Gemmill Goal 11th May 2021 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13477018)
The last people to be fined for committing election fraud were Vote Leave.

And the Government lied to the Queen to illegally prorogue Parliament to pass a law that they couldn't get passed.

Carrot Flower King 11th May 2021 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13477014)

Hadn't seen that, but it's worth mentioning more than once.

Carrot Flower King 11th May 2021 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal (Post 13477068)
Nothing to stop 'The North' becoming an independent country either. Just need to foster that movement for a while. It's a pity that a lot of the people in that region seem to be drinking the posh boy KoolAid though.

Tell me about it: it's scary listening to folk grovel before some RP twat.

I feel it is highly unlikely we'll even get another bite at the devolution cherry after Blair and Prescott screwed us over on the previous devo vote. Still haven't forgiven the pair for that.

Archie Gemmill Goal 11th May 2021 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13477077)
Tell me about it: it's scary listening to folk grovel before some RP twat.

I feel it is highly unlikely we'll even get another bite at the devolution cherry after Blair and Prescott screwed us over on the previous devo vote. Still haven't forgiven the pair for that.

Its difficult for me to comprehend but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any unifying identity for 'The North' to rally around. The man in Northumberland sees himself as every bit as much English as British as the woman in Surrey.

I don't get my head around it. I don't consider myself as of the same stock as Jacob Rees-Mogg. But apparently the Cumbrians, Scousers and Mancs do.

That being the case you may all well be tied into that British narrative of knowing your place and doffing your flat cap to your betters in a bowler.

It's not something I can get my head around. Never felt in the least bit British ... the 'Britishness' that I see celebrated seems entirely foreign to me. Not even in a neutral way but in a 'stands for everything I hate' way.

Britain is an awful country. One of the worst I have ever been in. Short of leaving or violent revolution I don't think that will change in my lifetime.

Garrison 11th May 2021 01:34 PM

And lest we forget the plan to outlaw conversion therapy is to be put out for 'consultation':

Conversion therapy ban: Campaigners dismayed over delay

Quote:

It will consider religious freedoms and how to protect accredited professionals in a move welcomed by some groups.
Quote:

It also said it wants "legitimate forms of pastoral support" to be allowed to continue, including prayer to help someone explore their sexual orientation or gender identity.
So basically you are going to wind up with a piece of legislation with religious exemptions that will render it all but meaningless.

Captain_Swoop 12th May 2021 02:23 AM

"If I am ever asked to produce an ID Card... I will take that card out of my wallet and physically eat it" - Boris Johnson, 2014.

P.J. Denyer 12th May 2021 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13476887)
And this is benign?



I can easily believe that the highlighted is true. It does imply that he lies with strategic intent though. Which isn't better than lying on an adhoc basis.

"He's a liar, but it's okay because he's a self serving liar" is an unusual defense to be sure.

Captain_Swoop 12th May 2021 02:36 AM

I notice the new animal welfare bill exempts wild animals from the bit about recognising 'animal sentience'. Can't interfere with the toffs shooting the wildlife.
Food from animals reared abroad will not have to have been produced to high animal-welfare standards.

Last year, ministers controversially voted against a House of Lords amendment which would have blocked imports that didn't meet welfare and food safety standards in the UK. I

Carrot Flower King 12th May 2021 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrison (Post 13477207)
And lest we forget the plan to outlaw conversion therapy is to be put out for 'consultation':

Conversion therapy ban: Campaigners dismayed over delay





So basically you are going to wind up with a piece of legislation with religious exemptions that will render it all but meaningless.

And yet religionistas insist that it is the religion-free who are nasty and rude to them...

Why are we even having this discussion? Just ban "conversion" therapy and have done with it.

Archie Gemmill Goal 12th May 2021 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13477575)
"If I am ever asked to produce an ID Card... I will take that card out of my wallet and physically eat it" - Boris Johnson, 2014.

Is that before or after he dies in a ditch?

Carrot Flower King 12th May 2021 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal (Post 13477585)
Is that before or after he dies in a ditch?

Or lying (tee, hee) down in front of bulldozers at Heathrow?

In that Kuenssberg piece I linked to she wrote: "But outright lying, in my experience, is relatively rare. It is too easily found out."

And yet we can find instance after instance of Johnson outright lying, pretty much every sodding day. But she can't, or more likely won't because of her pro-Tory bias, see that. FFS, when that well-known commie pinko liberal Peter Oborne says Johnson is lying how the **** does Kuenssberg get off with claiming otherwise?

P.J. Denyer 12th May 2021 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal (Post 13477160)
Its difficult for me to comprehend but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any unifying identity for 'The North' to rally around. The man in Northumberland sees himself as every bit as much English as British as the woman in Surrey.

I don't get my head around it. I don't consider myself as of the same stock as Jacob Rees-Mogg. But apparently the Cumbrians, Scousers and Mancs do.

That being the case you may all well be tied into that British narrative of knowing your place and doffing your flat cap to your betters in a bowler.

It's not something I can get my head around. Never felt in the least bit British ... the 'Britishness' that I see celebrated seems entirely foreign to me. Not even in a neutral way but in a 'stands for everything I hate' way.

Britain is an awful country. One of the worst I have ever been in. Short of leaving or violent revolution I don't think that will change in my lifetime.


I think of myself as British, I'm from 'down South' & I consider myself as British (no more or less) than a Cumbrian, Scouser (I'm married to one) or Manc and that really doesn't have a damned thing to do with Jacob Rees-Mogg. I have a damn sight more in common with the majority of Cumbrians, Scousers or Mancs (or a Scots or Welsh) than I do with that silver spoon sucking over priviledged twat & he doesn't define what is British for everyone.

P.J. Denyer 12th May 2021 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13477575)
"If I am ever asked to produce an ID Card... I will take that card out of my wallet and physically eat it" - Boris Johnson, 2014.

Presumably it will provide him sustainance while he's busily shovelling all the Northern Ireland customs forms he said to send straight to him into the recycling bin.

Archie Gemmill Goal 12th May 2021 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13477587)
Or lying (tee, hee) down in front of bulldozers at Heathrow?

In that Kuenssberg piece I linked to she wrote: "But outright lying, in my experience, is relatively rare. It is too easily found out."

And yet we can find instance after instance of Johnson outright lying, pretty much every sodding day. But she can't, or more likely won't because of her pro-Tory bias, see that. FFS, when that well-known commie pinko liberal Peter Oborne says Johnson is lying how the **** does Kuenssberg get off with claiming otherwise?

I think BJ has found that Trumpian line where his lies are so blatant that 'smart' people think 'it's just his schtick nobody actually thinks he actually thinks that' while a lot of people listening to him actually do think he thinks that. And agree with him. Or just enjoy that he is 'telling it like it is'

So he gets to 'say what we are all thinking' while simultaneously getting a free pass on having any responsibility for saying it.

It's quite clever in some ways and quite nasty in others.

Archie Gemmill Goal 12th May 2021 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13477588)
I think of myself as British, I'm from 'down South' & I consider myself as British (no more or less) than a Cumbrian, Scouser (I'm married to one) or Manc and that really doesn't have a damned thing to do with Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Of course it has SOMETHING to do with JRM. I mean it might not be the be all and end all but he (and his ilk) are on your team.

Quote:

I have a damn sight more in common with the majority of Cumbrians, Scousers or Mancs (or a Scots or Welsh) than I do with that silver spoon sucking over priviledged twat & he doesn't define what is British for everyone.
You can say that, and I might even agree with you mostly but sadly people like that privileged twat kind of do define what i British for everyone since he and his ilk are the ones calling the shots and it's people largely like yourself in many ways that conspire to give these people that power.

Darat 12th May 2021 04:04 AM

Oh dear, will we see bailiffs knocking on Number 10’s door?

Boris Johnson issued with court judgement over unpaid debt: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...35-unpaid-debt

Carrot Flower King 12th May 2021 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13477625)
Oh dear, will we see bailiffs knocking on Number 10’s door?

Boris Johnson issued with court judgement over unpaid debt: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...35-unpaid-debt

I'm just surprised he hasn't had someone, preferably a large-scale Tory donor, pay that off for him in some class of totally above board, not at all hooky, not leaving him beholden and definitely not because of anything he could do for said donor, manner.

That is how it works, isn't it?

As opposed to just managing your personal finances properly and paying your sodding debts when due.

Francesca R 12th May 2021 04:22 AM

The Grauniad isn't known for championing this government:

Quote:

GDP lifted by 2.1% [in March] and dropped by only 1.5% in first quarter of 2021

https://www.theguardian.com/business...accine-rollout

The Don 12th May 2021 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal (Post 13477160)
Its difficult for me to comprehend but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any unifying identity for 'The North' to rally around. The man in Northumberland sees himself as every bit as much English as British as the woman in Surrey.

I disagree. I'm a proud Northerner from Coonty Durrum, in my experience, Northumbrians are proudly Northumbrian and don't get me started on Yorkshiremen...

We may not have a shared common identity, but we're definitely not Soft Southern bastages.

Darat 12th May 2021 05:06 AM

And what do they say about repeating the same action and expecting a different result? Well Tories are to set targets for crime reduction https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...0-new-officers. Again.

Darat 12th May 2021 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13477665)
I disagree. I'm a proud Northerner from Coonty Durrum, in my experience, Northumbrians are proudly Northumbrian and don't get me started on Yorkshiremen...

We may not have a shared common identity, but we're definitely not Soft Southern bastages.

I always say the nearer to London you get the closer “northerners” get in having a general northernness! A Yorkshire and Lancastrian pair may carry on the centuries old animosity at home, but get them pass Watford gap and they unite in being “northerners” against the southerners!

Francesca R 12th May 2021 05:36 AM

I am a true southerner since I was born 44.4 degrees south of the equator. People born in Sussex and Kent are practically Arctic to me.

catsmate 12th May 2021 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13477665)
I disagree. I'm a proud Northerner from Coonty Durrum, in my experience, Northumbrians are proudly Northumbrian and don't get me started on Yorkshiremen...

We may not have a shared common identity, but we're definitely not Soft Southern bastages.

Hating the <INSERT GROUP HERE> is rarely a good basis for self-dentity unfortunately.

Francesca R 12th May 2021 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13477704)
Hating the <INSERT GROUP HERE> is rarely a good basis for self-dentity unfortunately.

But it is rarely not the basis for identity politics.

Carrot Flower King 12th May 2021 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13477625)
Oh dear, will we see bailiffs knocking on Number 10’s door?

Boris Johnson issued with court judgement over unpaid debt: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...35-unpaid-debt

And Downing Street says "Nothing to see here!" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57087274

So, even if "there is no merit" to this why has it taken until certain sections of the meejah (The Eye and Teh Graun) report it for someone to start doing something about challenging it? For a debt to have reached this stage there has to be a whole heap of communication and opportunities to do something about it (pay up; prove it's another My Johnson; whatever), but that has been beyond the wit of our Prime Minister, First Lord of the Treasury, as he was so keen to remind James "No Tax" Dyson.

Really, how does this ******* manage to dress himself? Or is he another one, like that other well-known genius, Chucky Windsor who has peoople who do it for him?

P.J. Denyer 12th May 2021 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal (Post 13477596)
Of course it has SOMETHING to do with JRM. I mean it might not be the be all and end all but he (and his ilk) are on your team.



You can say that, and I might even agree with you mostly but sadly people like that privileged twat kind of do define what i British for everyone since he and his ilk are the ones calling the shots and it's people largely like yourself in many ways that conspire to give these people that power.

Why does JRM get to define what being British is more than I do or you do? You give him too much power and no, he's not on my ******* team.

Garrison 12th May 2021 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13477582)
And yet religionistas insist that it is the religion-free who are nasty and rude to them...

Why are we even having this discussion? Just ban "conversion" therapy and have done with it.

Because amongst the aging membership of the Conservative party and amongst the voters of those newly acquired 'red wall' northern seats there are plenty who still think homosexuality is a sickness to be treated and Boris wants to pander to them.

jimbob 12th May 2021 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrison (Post 13478077)
Because amongst the aging membership of the Conservative party and amongst the voters of those newly acquired 'red wall' northern seats there are plenty who still think homosexuality is a sickness to be treated and Boris wants to pander to them.

Although it will go hard against his naturally tolerant attitude towards "Tank-topped bumboys"

Wudang 13th May 2021 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13477926)
And Downing Street says "Nothing to see here!" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57087274

So, even if "there is no merit" to this why has it taken until certain sections of the meejah (The Eye and Teh Graun) report it for someone to start doing something about challenging it? For a debt to have reached this stage there has to be a whole heap of communication and opportunities to do something about it (pay up; prove it's another My Johnson; whatever), but that has been beyond the wit of our Prime Minister, First Lord of the Treasury, as he was so keen to remind James "No Tax" Dyson.

Really, how does this ******* manage to dress himself? Or is he another one, like that other well-known genius, Chucky Windsor who has peoople who do it for him?


As usual David Allen Green explains the legal stuff clearly
https://davidallengreen.com/2021/05/...-an-explainer/


Quote:

Originally Posted by David Allen Green
There seems to be off-the-record briefing to political reporters saying that the claim was not ‘genuine’ – but even if this is the case, there was still a claim form and a CCJ missed by Downing Street and/or Johnson.

The fact that the claim may not have been well-made does not take away from the evident disorganisation which meant that a claim was served on and a CCJ received by Johnson and nothing appears to have been done about it.


Archie Gemmill Goal 13th May 2021 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13477665)
I disagree. I'm a proud Northerner from Coonty Durrum, in my experience, Northumbrians are proudly Northumbrian and don't get me started on Yorkshiremen...

We may not have a shared common identity, but we're definitely not Soft Southern bastages.

I think you are kind of making my point here though. Maybe I didn't express it well but my point is that there doesn't seem to exist a true identity at a level between England and Northumbrian.

And my sense is that you can't create a credible independence movement at the level of Northumbrian.

Furthermore I don't think there are many (although no doubt some) who would say I am Northumbrian not English.

That shared common identity across regions was what I was trying to suggest was missing.

Not that I am saying there is anything wrong with any of the above either, just an observation that it might be an interesting proposition to look at a potential nation of 15-20m people encompassing Newcastle Manchester Liverpool Birmingham Sheffield Nottingham and all points between.

Archie Gemmill Goal 13th May 2021 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francesca R (Post 13477710)
But it is rarely not the basis for identity politics.

Really?

Rarely?

How Rarely?

Was the gay rights movement based on hating straight people?
Feminism based on hating men?
The anti-apartheid movement in South Africa based on hating white people?

It seems quite the opposite is true in fact.

Archie Gemmill Goal 13th May 2021 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13477945)
Why does JRM get to define what being British is more than I do or you do? You give him too much power and no, he's not on my ******* team.

Well he certainly gets to define being British more than I do. I don't identify myself as British.

As for why he gets to define things... he's elected to represent people, he was considered a serious contender to be PM. Yes he's only 1 person but I was using him as representative of the British Establishment.

The whole shebang... the monarchy, the elitism, the Oxbridge hegemony, the crony economy, the public schoolboy culture, the class system, the colonial attitudes.... that stuff does actually define what it means to be British. Certainly more so than folk like yourself. And there are many many folk who while not being part of that establishment are certainly complicit in it continuing.

Just look at the doffing of caps to the death of Prince Philip. As one example.

It's pretty difficult to argue that 'the British' don't buy into any of this and just have it foisted on them unwillingly. Sure there will be some like that. But it's kinda hard to argue that JRM doesn't represent 'brand Britain' and all it stands for better than you or me.

Francesca R 13th May 2021 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal (Post 13478711)
Was the gay rights movement based on hating straight people?
Feminism based on hating men?
The anti-apartheid movement in South Africa based on hating white people?

No, true. Conceded.

Squeegee Beckenheim 13th May 2021 10:03 AM

Can't find a first-hand source for this yet:

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/sta...75339064426502

Quote:

+UPDATE+

Evidence emerging that highly placed members of the UK govt coordinated attacks on Keir Starmer & the Labour Party in the autumn on 2020 with members of senior BBC management & senior BBC journalists as criticism of PPE corruption & COVID deaths mounted.

Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 4


8/

For those watching the media in autumn is was clear & much talked about at the time that BBC was changing its reporting.

What’s changed now is that we a paper trail meetings of senior BBC executives together with BBC journalists.

At the very least we need transparency.
Now.

Carrot Flower King 13th May 2021 10:47 AM

^ That would go some way to explaining that Kuenssberg piece on Johnson not actually lying (according to her definitin of lying) I linked to previously.

Archie Gemmill Goal 13th May 2021 01:15 PM

For some 'good news' it looks like the anti-deportation protests in Pollokshields have gone pretty well and now 'Priti Patel' is trending on Twitter often accompanied by phrases such as 'get it right round ye'

GlennB 13th May 2021 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal (Post 13479185)
For some 'good news' it looks like the anti-deportation protests in Pollokshields have gone pretty well and now 'Priti Patel' is trending on Twitter often accompanied by phrases such as 'get it right round ye'

Just read about it. Nice story :)

**** the Home Office. Has there ever been a worse one?

Squeegee Beckenheim 14th May 2021 02:39 AM

As I've said before, you can understand everything you need to know about Priti Patel by the fact that she once admitted that the immigration policies she was trying to introduce would have disallowed her own parents from immigrating to the UK.

Archie Gemmill Goal 14th May 2021 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13479743)
As I've said before, you can understand everything you need to know about Priti Patel by the fact that she once admitted that the immigration policies she was trying to introduce would have disallowed her own parents from immigrating to the UK.

Can we apply them retroactively in that one case then?

Captain_Swoop 14th May 2021 03:23 AM

The business empire of Liberty Steel owner Sanjeev Gupta is under investigation by the Serious Fraud Office for suspected fraudulent trading and money laundering, including its financing arrangements with failed company Greensill Capital UK.

It comes the day after Cameron who worked for Greensill and lobbied the government on its behalf, appeared before MPs to answer questions about his role.

Government spokesperson says that the Department for Business feels vindicated that it did not agree to give a requested government bailout of £170m.

Carrot Flower King 14th May 2021 03:34 AM

Bugger me, but Cameron's appearance before the Treasury select committee was a car crash and a half.

"Cross my palms with a lot of silver and I shall do so much looking the other way it's untrue. And, by the way, how many blow jobs did you want, Lex?"

All this stuff about needing another job after jacking in (actual resignation, not sacking) being an MP and PM is beyond bovine manure: you are already a millionaire, mate! With money secreted in tax havens. Married to another millionaire. Who got a high 6 figure advance for a book no-one read. Who has an ex-MP and ex-PM pension, which is better than the one I got for flogging myself into the ground for the NHS.

What you are doing is purest greed and avarice.

There are plenty of jobs out there; y'know, the ones you were so keen for others to take, like being an Uber driver, working as a care assistant, being a bin man and the rest. I mean, since someone generously restored the bursaries you took away, you could even do nurse training. What stops you doing any of those? Aside from they will all involve actual real hard work for bugger all pay, of course...

Utter, contemptible twat!

Darat 14th May 2021 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13479759)
The business empire of Liberty Steel owner Sanjeev Gupta is under investigation by the Serious Fraud Office for suspected fraudulent trading and money laundering, including its financing arrangements with failed company Greensill Capital UK.

It comes the day after Cameron who worked for Greensill and lobbied the government on its behalf, appeared before MPs to answer questions about his role.

Government spokesperson says that the Department for Business feels vindicated that it did not agree to give a requested government bailout of £170m.

He must be sighing with relief about the case collapsing on day one of the trial, oh sorry that’s a comment from 2028!

Nessie 14th May 2021 03:45 AM

Interesting incident in Glasgow, as Home Office officials detain two asylum seekers, their van is surrounded and after a stand-off that included the First Minister and MSPs arguing with the Home Office, the asylum seekers were released and allowed back home.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...-raid-24099998

I cannot find why the two men were detained. At least part of the protest was about the detention happening on Eid and in general about the Westminster Govt and Home Office's immigration/asylum policies.

Archie Gemmill Goal 14th May 2021 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 13479773)
Interesting incident in Glasgow, as Home Office officials detain two asylum seekers, their van is surrounded and after a stand-off that included the First Minister and MSPs arguing with the Home Office, the asylum seekers were released and allowed back home.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...-raid-24099998

I cannot find why the two men were detained. At least part of the protest was about the detention happening on Eid and in general about the Westminster Govt and Home Office's immigration/asylum policies.

It wasn't them being 'detained' it was them being deported.

Captain_Swoop 14th May 2021 04:14 AM

Saw some video of that on Twitter from people who were there.

Brilliant.

Nessie 14th May 2021 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal (Post 13479789)
It wasn't them being 'detained' it was them being deported.

Information on what they were being detained for has been scant. It is suggested they were overstaying a visa, but there was no indication if they were being taken into detention, or if this was the start of their removal to an airport for deportation.

Archie Gemmill Goal 14th May 2021 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 13479797)
Information on what they were being detained for has been scant.

They were being detained because the UK Home Office has made it policy to create a hostile environment for immigrants and refugees. Or did you mean what specific excuse the HO has come up with this time?

I took the Police Scotland statement that 'we don't assist with the deportations of asylum seekers' to mean that is what was being attempted in this case though maybe I read too much into that one.

Captain_Swoop 14th May 2021 04:38 AM

Callers onJeremy Vine say it's a disgrace and the police are bowing to 'mob rule' they should have broken up the crowd and protected the HO officials in the execution of their duty.

Most of those calling and emailing seem to be in England.


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