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-   -   horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334527)

Travis 29th January 2019 05:24 PM

horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett
 
Surprised there isn't a thread on this yet. Star of the hit show Empire, Jussie Smollett, was apparently attacked last night. And, if the reporting our right now is true, it sure does seem like a hate crime.


He is both black and gay. Not shy about it. A week ago he got some threatening letter is the mail, which had MAGA written across them. It would seem a stretch that they are related at this time but I'm sure authorities are looking into it. As it stands he was outside a Subway when two men attacked him, breaking a rib and battering his face while, reportedly, yelling homophobic and racist slurs. Reportedly bleach (odd) was poured on him and a rope tied around his neck. Some say it was a real noose but...a rope at least.


TMZ has a report that someone yelled "this is MAGA country" but Chicago PD dispute it. Not that I necessarily trust Chicago PD but we will see what happens.


Anyhow a prominent black gay man was hugely manhandled and I'm somewhat shocked there isn't more coverage of it today.

theprestige 29th January 2019 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis (Post 12582577)
Surprised there isn't a thread on this yet. Star of the hit show Empire, Jussie Smollett, was apparently attacked last night. And, if the reporting our right now is true, it sure does seem like a hate crime.


He is both black and gay. Not shy about it. A week ago he got some threatening letter is the mail, which had MAGA written across them. It would seem a stretch that they are related at this time but I'm sure authorities are looking into it. As it stands he was outside a Subway when two men attacked him, breaking a rib and battering his face while, reportedly, yelling homophobic and racist slurs. Reportedly bleach (odd) was poured on him and a rope tied around his neck. Some say it was a real noose but...a rope at least.


TMZ has a report that someone yelled "this is MAGA country" but Chicago PD dispute it. Not that I necessarily trust Chicago PD but we will see what happens.


Anyhow a prominent black gay man was hugely manhandled and I'm somewhat shocked there isn't more coverage of it today.

It's already been covered in the 'Massive Wave' thread, where all truthy hate crime narratives go to die. I look forward to your hapless attempts to rehabilitate this one.

Skeptic Ginger 29th January 2019 05:40 PM

I'm glad he's alright and it is time for a new hate crimes thread. Apparently the old one has become a place to report stories so certain members of the forum can dismiss the reports.

Some people lack empathy unless it personally affects them.

Puppycow 29th January 2019 05:57 PM

Well I said it in the other thread, so I'll repeat it here.

This one will turn out to be a hoax.

Since there is no link here yet, I'll also provide one:

Attackers Put Empire Star in Noose: Report

Quote:

(Newser) – Empire star Jussie Smollett was viciously attacked in Chicago early Tuesday in what police are investigating as a possible hate crime. The African-American actor, who is openly gay and plays gay character Jamal Lyon on Empire, was leaving a Subway restaurant around 2am when he was recognized by two white men in ski masks who referred to him using racial and homophobic slurs and referenced his role on the TV show, reports TMZ. The men struck Smollett in the face, poured a chemical (possibly bleach) on him, and put a rope around his neck a la a noose, according to a police report. TMZ reports the men also yelled, "This is MAGA country" before departing.

Magrat 29th January 2019 06:47 PM

Are we great again, yet?

Foolmewunz 29th January 2019 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12582604)
I'm glad he's alright and it is time for a new hate crimes thread. Apparently the old one has become a place to report stories so certain members of the forum can dismiss the reports.

Some people lack empathy unless it personally affects them.

Yeah, the question should have been reworded from the outset. Eighteen months after the opening post certain obstructionist interference runners were still saying "yeah but that didn't happen at the time of Trump's election so neener neener neener the OP is false".

Skeptic Ginger 29th January 2019 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12582618)
Well I said it in the other thread, so I'll repeat it here.

This one will turn out to be a hoax.

Since there is no link here yet, I'll also provide one:

Attackers Put Empire Star in Noose: Report

Other than your confirmation bias, do you have a shred of evidence here supporting this claim?

Magrat 29th January 2019 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12582668)
Other than your confirmation bias, do you have a shred of evidence here supporting this claim?

S/he has thus decreed. Isn't that enough for you, sheeple? :thumbsup:

Puppycow 29th January 2019 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12582668)
Other than your confirmation bias, do you have a shred of evidence here supporting this claim?

Call it a falsifiable prediction. I've read the articles about it and the claims don't don't pass the sniff test in my opinion.

If it turns out I am wrong, I will happily admit it. Let's see what the police find out.

Foolmewunz 29th January 2019 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12582618)
Well I said it in the other thread, so I'll repeat it here.

This one will turn out to be a hoax.

Since there is no link here yet, I'll also provide one:

Attackers Put Empire Star in Noose: Report

You'll have to pardon our cynicism about your seeming cynicism.

Quite the coincidence (I'm sure) that at the time you posted that link to a source citing only TMZ, I found similar reports on CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NPR, Forbes, The Guardian, local news stations in Chicago, etc... All pre-dating TMZ, the gossip people, by several hours.

Puppycow 29th January 2019 07:39 PM

Here is an update (with evidences), please read and tell me if you still think I'm wrong:

http://www.cwbchicago.com/2019/01/up...-turn-off.html

CaptainHowdy 29th January 2019 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis (Post 12582577)
Surprised there isn't a thread on this yet. Star of the hit show Empire, Jussie Smollett, was apparently attacked last night. And, if the reporting our right now is true, it sure does seem like a hate crime.

It sure does seem like another hate crime hoax.

Quote:

He is both black and gay. Not shy about it. A week ago he got some threatening letter is the mail, which had MAGA written across them. It would seem a stretch that they are related at this time but I'm sure authorities are looking into it. As it stands he was outside a Subway when two men attacked him, breaking a rib and battering his face while, reportedly, yelling homophobic and racist slurs. Reportedly bleach (odd) was poured on him and a rope tied around his neck. Some say it was a real noose but...a rope at least.
Those darn MAGA people! They can be so mean! The fact that they took some bleach and a rope with them when they went to Subway meant that they were intending to viciously attack a famous Hollywood homosexual negro actor.

Quote:

TMZ has a report that someone yelled "this is MAGA country" but Chicago PD dispute it. Not that I necessarily trust Chicago PD but we will see what happens.


Anyhow a prominent black gay man was hugely manhandled and I'm somewhat shocked there isn't more coverage of it today.
Maybe people recogize ******** when they see it.

Skeptic Ginger 29th January 2019 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12582692)
Call it a falsifiable prediction. I've read the articles about it and the claims don't don't pass the sniff test in my opinion.

If it turns out I am wrong, I will happily admit it. Let's see what the police find out.

I do believe that translates to nothing besides confirmation bias.

The Big Dog 29th January 2019 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz (Post 12582695)
You'll have to pardon our cynicism about your seeming cynicism.

Quite the coincidence (I'm sure) that at the time you posted that link to a source citing only TMZ, I found similar reports on CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NPR, Forbes, The Guardian, local news stations in Chicago, etc... All pre-dating TMZ, the gossip people, by several hours.

TMZ broke the story.

TMZ they were the ones who claimed they yelled out this is MAGA country.

There is no reason to be on lower water drive in Chicago at 200 am in 5 degree weather, at all.

He had the noose on 45 minutes later. Lolz

Skeptic Ginger 29th January 2019 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12582698)
Here is an update (with evidences), please read and tell me if you still think I'm wrong:

http://www.cwbchicago.com/2019/01/up...-turn-off.html

So?

The guy's a actor, why shouldn't he want body cams off?

Skeptic Ginger 29th January 2019 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12582711)
TMZ broke the story.

TMZ they were the ones who claimed they yelled out this is MAGA country.

There is no reason to be on lower water drive in Chicago at 200 am in 5 degree weather, at all.

He had the noose on 45 minutes later. Lolz

You don't know that. Could be he carried the rope to the ED rather than leaving it on his neck.

The Big Dog 29th January 2019 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12582713)
So?

The guy's a actor, why shouldn't he want body cams off?

Read the whole article.

:rolleyes:

The Big Dog 29th January 2019 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12582715)
You don't know that. Could be he carried the rope to the ED rather than leaving it on his neck.

:rolleyes: read the whole article for pete’s sake.

By the way I work a few blocks from where it took place and not one of even the libbiest libs in my office believed the story.

Puppycow 29th January 2019 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12582710)
I do believe that translates to nothing besides confirmation bias.

OK, would you like to take the other side of the bet?

AJM8125 29th January 2019 08:10 PM

Quote:

• Police reviewed video from dozens of public and private surveillance cameras in the Streeterville area. As of 2:45 p.m. they had not seen any images of the attackers. Investigators have found footage of Smollett alone inside the Subway shop.
Troubling.

Skeptic Ginger 29th January 2019 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12582721)
OK, would you like to take the other side of the bet?

At this point I'm going by the news report. I have no other evidence.

Puppycow 29th January 2019 09:13 PM

Lots of love and support coming in for him:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ck/2709986002/

There's a couple of paragraphs about the alleged incident itself and then lots of messages of support from other celebrities and politicians. Maybe I'm a bad person for questioning this, and I certainly wouldn't fault anyone for simply taking him at his word at this stage. It's just that something about it doesn't make any sense to me.

William Parcher 29th January 2019 09:44 PM

TMZ might be getting skeptical based on their latest update.

http://m.tmz.com/#!article/2019/01/2...ic-hate-crime/

Skeptic Ginger 29th January 2019 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Parcher (Post 12582773)
TMZ might be getting skeptical based on their latest update.

http://m.tmz.com/#!article/2019/01/2...ic-hate-crime/

They might be or you might be? I didn't see any comments like that.

They did report the the cops came 45 minutes after the fact and the rope was still on his neck.

The Target video didn't show the attack, but the cops are acquiring another video from a nearby apt. building.

Kind of hard to break your own rib. His face doesn't look beat up.

The video from a nearby apt. building and the ED report should shed some light.

Puppycow 29th January 2019 10:07 PM

This might be the letter that the FBI is investigating?

https://twitter.com/Homiekage/status...83693497896960

Seen here

William Parcher 29th January 2019 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12582779)
They might be or you might be? I didn't see any comments like that.

They reveal their skepticism when they use the word "Remember" before telling you when the alleged crime occurred. They want to bring special attention to him wearing the rope for 45 minutes. TMZ is getting skeptical and for reasons.

Foolmewunz 29th January 2019 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12582786)
This might be the letter that the FBI is investigating?

https://twitter.com/Homiekage/status...83693497896960

Seen here

The interesting sequence in that article is the police denying any record of anyone claiming they made MAGA comments. Since the only witness is Smollett, they're apparently saying he didn't claim that, just homophobic and racial slurs. Is this a contradiction of any statements he made? Or did one or another news organization take liberties and add that in for effect?

(Serious question. I'm kinda busy with a household crisis and can't actually find the sequence of events or who made that claim originally.)

pharphis 29th January 2019 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis (Post 12582577)
Surprised there isn't a thread on this yet. Star of the hit show Empire, Jussie Smollett, was apparently attacked last night. And, if the reporting our right now is true, it sure does seem like a hate crime.


He is both black and gay. Not shy about it. A week ago he got some threatening letter is the mail, which had MAGA written across them. It would seem a stretch that they are related at this time but I'm sure authorities are looking into it. As it stands he was outside a Subway when two men attacked him, breaking a rib and battering his face while, reportedly, yelling homophobic and racist slurs. Reportedly bleach (odd) was poured on him and a rope tied around his neck. Some say it was a real noose but...a rope at least.


TMZ has a report that someone yelled "this is MAGA country" but Chicago PD dispute it. Not that I necessarily trust Chicago PD but we will see what happens.


Anyhow a prominent black gay man was hugely manhandled and I'm somewhat shocked there isn't more coverage of it today.

I might be called some kind of denialist but this type of story just sounds so unbelievable (in general) that I struggle to believe it could possibly be true.

I know, there are crappy people out there but this sounds like a caricature of a hate crime (and what I'd expect an insane person to invent in order to bolster their political cause, somehow)

William Parcher 29th January 2019 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12582786)
This might be the letter that the FBI is investigating?

https://twitter.com/Homiekage/status...83693497896960

Seen here

It's strange. Looks like a satire of a threatening letter. Cut out letters are used to prevent identifying handwriting but then the address is hand written. Drawing made to look like it was done by a three year old kid.

Foolmewunz 29th January 2019 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharphis (Post 12582793)
I might be called some kind of denialist but this type of story just sounds so unbelievable (in general) that I struggle to believe it could possibly be true.

I know, there are crappy people out there but this sounds like a caricature of a hate crime (and what I'd expect an insane person to invent in order to bolster their political cause, somehow)

Okay, you're a denialist.

Is this really any crazier than a Nazi getting so enraged by protesters that he plows through them? A white supremacist shooting up a black church. A gen-you-wine bigot shooting up a Synagogue. Which of those do you actually find plausible? 'Cuz for the life of me all of those sound like caricatures of hate crimes, too, when viewed through conserva-lens spectacles.

I dunno if the story's true or not. I'm just here because the usual "skeptics forum" need to be first to call "fake!" amuses me.

William Parcher 29th January 2019 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharphis (Post 12582793)
I know, there are crappy people out there but this sounds like a caricature of a hate crime (and what I'd expect an insane person to invent in order to bolster their political cause, somehow)

The letter also looks like a caricature. If the attack is a hoax then the letter probably is as well.

Puppycow 29th January 2019 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz (Post 12582791)
The interesting sequence in that article is the police denying any record of anyone claiming they made MAGA comments. Since the only witness is Smollett, they're apparently saying he didn't claim that, just homophobic and racial slurs. Is this a contradiction of any statements he made? Or did one or another news organization take liberties and add that in for effect?

(Serious question. I'm kinda busy with a household crisis and can't actually find the sequence of events or who made that claim originally.)

He did not mention it in the initial interview, but did mention it in a follow-up interview later in the day, after TMZ reported.

Quote:

During his first conversation with police, Smollett did not say that the attackers made "MAGA" comments, a police spokesperson said. That detail was published by TMZ.com and Smollett mentioned it during a follow-up interview with police later in the day, according to the spokesperson.

Puppycow 29th January 2019 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz (Post 12582797)
Okay, you're a denialist.

Is this really any crazier than a Nazi getting so enraged by protesters that he plows through them? A white supremacist shooting up a black church. A gen-you-wine bigot shooting up a Synagogue. Which of those do you actually find plausible? 'Cuz for the life of me all of those sound like caricatures of hate crimes, too, when viewed through conserva-lens spectacles.

I dunno if the story's true or not. I'm just here because the usual "skeptics forum" need to be first to call "fake!" amuses me.

There certainly are real hate crimes. Mass murders are never hoaxes. At least I've never heard of one that was a hoax, despite the conspiracy theorists who always claim "false flag". The ones that are hoaxes tend to look more like this one.

Mumbles 29th January 2019 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12582813)
He did not mention it in the initial interview, but did mention it in a follow-up interview later in the day, after TMZ reported.

This is according to Chicago PD, whop aren't well-known for being thorough and professional, to say the least, even when Dolt 45 isn't involved - and given the idiot's express support for police brutality, I'd expect that a PD known for brutality such as Chicago (these are the guys that had a black site and a torture chamber, after all) could easily "forget" to write it down.

This story doesn't sound all that unbelievable to me, all things considered. Gay black guy is beaten and has a noose put around his neck? Actually, that sounds like a fairly normal hate crime. Actually, the "blacks rule" guy sounds more unlikely.

Yes, the legal system will be slow and thorough, in the end, and that's as it should be. I'm not a part of that system, I'm just a guy that detests this sort of attack, so I hope that they put these two guys under the jail.

Puppycow 30th January 2019 04:30 AM

CNN has reported basically the same thing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ack/index.html

Quote:

Chicago police say Jussie Smollett did not mention the alleged attackers shouting, “This is MAGA country” during the initial police interview. Investigators heard the claim in media reports and called the actor. He later relayed it to detectives in a supplemental interview.


baron 30th January 2019 04:35 AM

Oh no! The Star of the hit show Empire, Jussie Smollett, you say? 'Hugely manhandled'? Is that an accusation of violence or a promo line on his Facebook account? Whatever, the whole story is a crock of crap, you've outdone yourself this time OP.

TragicMonkey 30th January 2019 04:45 AM

I'm confused, is this a thread for us to take sides based on our political preferences, or is it a thread to guess what actually happened and hope to be proved right later so we can look clever? Those are the only two schools of skepticism here.

TofuFighter 30th January 2019 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12582819)
There certainly are real hate crimes. Mass murders are never hoaxes. At least I've never heard of one that was a hoax, despite the conspiracy theorists who always claim "false flag". The ones that are hoaxes tend to look more like this one.

Can you explain what you think might actually have happened, that you believe this is a hoax?

Is it that you think Smollett was attacked, but that the attackers have just been painted as white maga crazies, or do you think he was not attacked and somehow faked everything?

Puppycow 30th January 2019 04:52 AM

I can't speak for anyone else in the thread but I hope my opinion is not because of any political bias on my part. Fwiw, I wouldn't be caught dead in a MAGA hat myself. I don't support Trump at all and I hope he leaves office as soon as possible.

Puppycow 30th January 2019 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TofuFighter (Post 12582989)
Can you explain what you think might actually have happened, that you believe this is a hoax?

Is it that you think Smollett was attacked, but that the attackers have just been painted as white maga crazies, or do you think he was not attacked and somehow faked everything?

The latter. I don't think these attackers exist.

So far police have been unable to find any evidence of their existence.


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