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p0lka 25th October 2020 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13269887)
The Bishops sit as 'Lords Spiritual' in the House of Lords.

They aren't law making though?

They get to temp block stuff with amendments etc, but the gov can force things through anyway.

Mojo 25th October 2020 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0lka (Post 13269901)
They aren't law making though?


No more, or less, than any other member of the legislature.

Darat 26th October 2020 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0lka (Post 13269901)
They aren't law making though?

They get to temp block stuff with amendments etc, but the gov can force things through anyway.

They can add to and amend bills, bills can start in the House of Lords so they are very much a legislative body. There are various constitutional constraints based on the House of Commons being the ultimate authority in the UK but that doesn't mean it isn't a legislative body.

Captain_Swoop 26th October 2020 03:27 AM

Health Secretary Matt Hancock has insisted that local councils are best placed to ensure disadvantaged children don't go hungry
He said government support of councils was "the best way" to aid the "brilliant" community collaboration.
"I accept and I strongly believe that we should all come together to ensure that no child should go hungry."

He also said the prime minister had been communicating with footballer Marcus Rashford, who has been campaigning for free school meals since before the summer holidays.
However, Rashford challenged that suggestion on Twitter.
Downing Street sources later said they were not aware of any direct communication between the PM and Rashford.

Carrot Flower King 26th October 2020 03:30 AM

So, those will be the councils whose funding from central goverenment has been consitently reduced since 2010 and have had to make cuts to education, social services and many other things? THose councils? Or Does Hancock have some others in mind?

And I use the word "mind" in its loosest sense...

The Don 26th October 2020 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13270342)
So, those will be the councils whose funding from central goverenment has been consitently reduced since 2010 and have had to make cuts to education, social services and many other things? THose councils? Or Does Hancock have some others in mind?

And I use the word "mind" in its loosest sense...

Yes, exactly those councils and of course those councils with the greatest levels of depravation are the same councils which are most reliant on central government funding because of the limited scope they have for raising money in other ways.

IOW the councils with the most "undeserving poor" will be the ones hit hardest. :mad:

The Don 26th October 2020 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13270339)
He also said the prime minister had been communicating with footballer Marcus Rashford, who has been campaigning for free school meals since before the summer holidays.
However, Rashford challenged that suggestion on Twitter.
Downing Street sources later said they were not aware of any direct communication between the PM and Rashford.

It does at least give me some hope that, in stark contrast to the current occupant of the White House, when Boris Johnson's lies are exposed, tends to fold like a cheap deck chair. Then again, it won't stop him telling the same lie tomorrow.

Lothian 26th October 2020 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13270339)
."
He also said the prime minister had been communicating with footballer Marcus Rashford, who has been campaigning for free school meals since before the summer holidays.
However, Rashford challenged that suggestion on Twitter.
Downing Street sources later said they were not aware of any direct communication between the PM and Rashford.

I am shocked and dismayed. A Tory minister lying. Surely some mistake.

RolandRat 26th October 2020 04:11 AM

"Tory ministers have been slammed for slapping a “mask tax” on personal protective equipment (PPE) as the prices of key items look set to rise at the end of this week.

Surgical masks and gloves will cost more after the Government said a temporary waiver of VAT on PPE would not be extended.

The VAT hike will not affect reusable cloth face coverings, which are not covered by PHE's guidance. However, adults' clothes are already charged VAT at the 20% rate.

And the VAT hike will affect the characteristic blue, single-use 'Type IIR' face masks that are on sale to the general public.

While businesses will be able to claim back the VAT at a later date, any private families who buy medical-style masks will be forced to bear the cost of the tax hike.

Shadow Treasury Minister James Murray said: “It’s unbelievable that the Government wants to introduce a mask tax in the middle of a pandemic."

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/othe...?ocid=msedgdhp

Lothian 26th October 2020 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolandRat (Post 13270364)
"Tory ministers have been slammed for slapping a “mask tax” on personal protective equipment (PPE) as the prices of key items look set to rise at the end of this week.

Surgical masks and gloves will cost more after the Government said a temporary waiver of VAT on PPE would not be extended.

The VAT hike will not affect reusable cloth face coverings, which are not covered by PHE's guidance. However, adults' clothes are already charged VAT at the 20% rate.

And the VAT hike will affect the characteristic blue, single-use 'Type IIR' face masks that are on sale to the general public.

While businesses will be able to claim back the VAT at a later date, any private families who buy medical-style masks will be forced to bear the cost of the tax hike.

Shadow Treasury Minister James Murray said: “It’s unbelievable that the Government wants to introduce a mask tax in the middle of a pandemic."

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/othe...?ocid=msedgdhp

You obviously haven't been keeping up with the news. The government need money to ensure that those in most need get a wholesome meal and drink to get them through the day. The Commons canteen needs it's subsidy to come from somewhere.

Darat 26th October 2020 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolandRat (Post 13270364)
"Tory ministers have been slammed for slapping a “mask tax” on personal protective equipment (PPE) as the prices of key items look set to rise at the end of this week.

Surgical masks and gloves will cost more after the Government said a temporary waiver of VAT on PPE would not be extended.

The VAT hike will not affect reusable cloth face coverings, which are not covered by PHE's guidance. However, adults' clothes are already charged VAT at the 20% rate.

And the VAT hike will affect the characteristic blue, single-use 'Type IIR' face masks that are on sale to the general public.

While businesses will be able to claim back the VAT at a later date, any private families who buy medical-style masks will be forced to bear the cost of the tax hike.

Shadow Treasury Minister James Murray said: “It’s unbelievable that the Government wants to introduce a mask tax in the middle of a pandemic."

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/othe...?ocid=msedgdhp

What would be the point of the return to normal VAT if we weren’t in an pandemic and wearing masks are compulsory sort of compulsory but not really, nudge, dude, wink, wink? Now is the best time to make a killing!

Nessie 26th October 2020 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13270339)
Health Secretary Matt Hancock has insisted that local councils are best placed to ensure disadvantaged children don't go hungry
He said government support of councils was "the best way" to aid the "brilliant" community collaboration.
"I accept and I strongly believe that we should all come together to ensure that no child should go hungry."

...

The idiocy of Hancock is that those very same local authorities run the schools that are in the best place to feed children. It is more than likely that a local authority who is given money to feed school kids over the holidays, will just keep schools open to do that, as they are already set up to feed children.

Captain_Swoop 26th October 2020 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 13270439)
The idiocy of Hancock is that those very same local authorities run the schools that are in the best place to feed children. It is more than likely that a local authority who is given money to feed school kids over the holidays, will just keep schools open to do that, as they are already set up to feed children.

Academy schools aren't run by the council.

Our local school is an Academy trust. It is one of 5 belonging to the same outfit.
Their catering is all contracted out.

Captain_Swoop 26th October 2020 11:24 AM

remember that every lovingly-planned, delicious, nutritional school meal enjoyed at Eton, Harrow and similar private 'Public Schools' is heavily subsidised by taxpayers through the schools charity status.

Darat 26th October 2020 01:01 PM

Johnson said no one wanted to see hungry kids this winter. Note the word "see".....

Captain_Swoop 26th October 2020 01:18 PM

Don't worry they'll come up with a 'new' scheme that will send money to mates, donors, friends and family that will duplicate (badly) what already exists and then try to claim. All to avoid saying 'sorry we got it wrong'.

Captain_Swoop 26th October 2020 01:26 PM

Tory mayor Ben Houchen: "The Government is wrong and should reverse its decision on free school meals"

He said: "I’m not going to let party politics get in the way of doing what is right, and that is making sure children in Teesside, Darlington and Hartlepool do not go hungry during the school holidays.

"I’ve always said that we can only ever be as prosperous as the least fortunate in our communities. If we want our area to improve then we need to make it a place where everyone can succeed. That’s easier said than done and given the crisis we’re in it is even more difficult.
I think the Government is wrong not to extend this scheme into the October half-term, but I am not an MP. I do not have a say in this, but I am using the powers I have at my disposal and I’m proud to be funding this amazing scheme with Middlesbrough Foundation. A project that will feed 2,000 of the most vulnerable children in our area."

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...able-children/

p0lka 26th October 2020 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13270317)
They can add to and amend bills, bills can start in the House of Lords so they are very much a legislative body. There are various constitutional constraints based on the House of Commons being the ultimate authority in the UK but that doesn't mean it isn't a legislative body.

They can add and amend, then it's sent back.
The gov can choose to accept the changes, or ping pong it and choose not.

At no point are the house of lord, lawmakers.
As you said they can amend,
It seems they can suggest, but they can't make laws.
edit: sorry for the offtopic.

Pixel42 26th October 2020 02:28 PM

ISTR the power of the House of Lord's described as being able to say "Yes", or "Yes, but not for a few weeks".

Darat 26th October 2020 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13270824)
Don't worry they'll come up with a 'new' scheme that will send money to mates, donors, friends and family that will duplicate (badly) what already exists and then try to claim. All to avoid saying 'sorry we got it wrong'.

Well apparently the voucher system is very bureaucratic and complicated... So again the government demonstrating that even they know they are incompetent!

Darat 26th October 2020 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0lka (Post 13270893)
They can add and amend, then it's sent back.
The gov can choose to accept the changes, or ping pong it and choose not.

At no point are the house of lord, lawmakers.
As you said they can amend,
It seems they can suggest, but they can't make laws.

Yes they can, bills can be started in HoL.

And no the government can’t simply ignore the HoL, remember our government doesn’t pass any laws, that is a power reserved for the two houses.

From Parliament’s own website “What the Lords does”

...snip... The Lords shares the task of making and shaping laws ...snip...

Captain_Swoop 26th October 2020 03:34 PM

Thatcher, Thatcher...milk snatcher.

Johnson, Johnson...****.

Captain_Swoop 26th October 2020 04:13 PM

Correction, I detest all Tory cabinet ministers, every single one.

Sajid Javid tweeted
@sajidjavid
The Left really, really do detest ethnic-minority Tory Cabinet ministers.

p0lka 26th October 2020 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13270919)
Yes they can, bills can be started in HoL.

And no the government can’t simply ignore the HoL, remember our government doesn’t pass any laws, that is a power reserved for the two houses.

From Parliament’s own website “What the Lords does”

...snip... The Lords shares the task of making and shaping laws ...snip...

I never said the gov can ignore the hol, i said ping pong would happen to get whatever through.

gov reserves the right to ignore hol and push it through in the next session and hol has to accept it.
hol aint lawmakers.

Darat 26th October 2020 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0lka (Post 13271077)
I never said the gov can ignore the hol, i said ping pong would happen to get whatever through.

gov reserves the right to ignore hol and push it through in the next session and hol has to accept it.
hol aint lawmakers.

Take it up with Parliament and tell them their websites have published incorrect information. :rolleyes:

Lothian 27th October 2020 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0lka (Post 13271077)
I never said the gov can ignore the hol, i said ping pong would happen to get whatever through.

gov reserves the right to ignore hol and push it through in the next session and hol has to accept it.
hol aint lawmakers.

I think if you are to follow that logic, until bills get royal assent they don't come into force. The queen is therefire the only law maker.

Captain_Swoop 27th October 2020 03:27 AM

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 40% (+1)
LAB: 39% (+1)
LDEM: 7% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-1)
BREX: 3% (-2)

via @YouGov, 21 - 22 Oct
Chgs. w/ 15 Oct

The Don 27th October 2020 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13271390)
Westminster voting intention:

CON: 40% (+1)
LAB: 39% (+1)
LDEM: 7% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-1)
BREX: 3% (-2)

via @YouGov, 21 - 22 Oct
Chgs. w/ 15 Oct

Given how badly the government have handled Covid-19 and Brexit, it's astonishing to me that the Conservatives are still leading the polls. :confused:

catsmate 27th October 2020 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13271401)
Given how badly the government have handled Covid-19 and Brexit, it's astonishing to me that the Conservatives are still leading the polls. :confused:

As with US Republicans there are a hard core who'll vote for "their" party regardless of what they do.

The Don 27th October 2020 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13271405)
As with US Republicans there are a hard core who'll vote for "their" party regardless of what they do.

Sure, but in the relatively recent past the Tories have polled in the high 20's/low 30's

Carrot Flower King 27th October 2020 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13271008)
Correction, I detest all Tory cabinet ministers, every single one.

Sajid Javid tweeted
@sajidjavid
The Left really, really do detest ethnic-minority Tory Cabinet ministers.

It's not just cabinet ministers (of whatever ethnicity)...MPs, party employees... As long as they carry on doing what they do and saying what they say...

Carrot Flower King 27th October 2020 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13271401)
Given how badly the government have handled Covid-19 and Brexit, it's astonishing to me that the Conservatives are still leading the polls. :confused:

My next-door neighbour (who did vote for Anne-Marie Trevelyan...) still thinks Johnson is doing a good job.

I've been amazed since Trevelyan first appeared as our Tory PPC that anyone could vote for her, but they've elected her as our MP 3 times now...

OK, the Lib Dem vote here collapsed in 2015 after Clegg lied to us in 2010...And our Labour PPC managed to annoy many of us round here, where he is our county councillor, by being less than honest over certain planning issues...But still...Anne-Marie Trevelyan?

p0lka 27th October 2020 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13271180)
Take it up with Parliament and tell them their websites have published incorrect information. :rolleyes:

As you were linking to parliament websites, I had a look

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/...of-amendments/

That literally states what I said, and I swear they've nicked my ping pong analogy haha.

note this
Quote:

In exceptional cases, when the two Houses do not reach agreement, the bill falls. If certain conditions are met, the Commons can use the Parliament Acts to pass the bill, without the consent of the Lords, in the following session.
the :rolleyes I don't get, hope it made you feel better.

Darat 27th October 2020 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0lka (Post 13272002)
As you were linking to parliament websites, I had a look

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/...of-amendments/

That literally states what I said, and I swear they've nicked my ping pong analogy haha.

note this

Which has nothing to do with your claim.

p0lka 27th October 2020 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13272010)
Which has nothing to do with your claim.

eh, what claim did I make? I would really like you to point me to it please.

from my point of view I'm calling out claims that the hol can make laws like the vatican and iran.

as I linked above, the house of lords can be ignored using parliament acts by the gov.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13270919)
Yes they can, bills can be started in HoL.

And no the government can’t simply ignore the HoL, remember our government doesn’t pass any laws, that is a power reserved for the two houses.

this was your claim..

EDIT: hm i've been interchanging gov for commons, sorry. The point still stands.

Darat 28th October 2020 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0lka (Post 13272028)
eh, what claim did I make? I would really like you to point me to it please.

from my point of view I'm calling out claims that the hol can make laws like the vatican and iran.

as I linked above, the house of lords can be ignored using parliament acts by the gov.


this was your claim..

EDIT: hm i've been interchanging gov for commons, sorry. The point still stands.

"hol aint lawmakers."

The Don 29th October 2020 01:20 AM

Amazing. :confused:

The traditional Labour constituencies which switched to the Conservatives think that Boris Johnson and his government are doing a great job - or at least that's what the BBC are reporting.

Quote:

Looking back, he said Mr Johnson had "had the toughest year possible" trying to tackle coronavirus, and that therefore he was "going to get it wrong".

"But I defy anybody to get what we've just been through right," he added.
Quote:

Mike, who's chairman of the Grimsby Fish Merchants Association, also met the prime minister at the fish market last December.

He says he was impressed by what he described as Mr Johnson's "passion" for the industry, and he still backs him now.

"I seriously still have belief in Boris Johnson," he said. "I do believe that Boris is the right man for the job. And I can't look at the present moment in time and think: who's going to replace him?"
Quote:

Nicola Maasdam, who runs a gift shop, is broadly reassured by the government's efforts.

"I think [Johnson] has done the best with what is a completely unprecedented situation. We've never been in a situation like that in living history.

"And what could they do? I think they've taken the advice that they could take, and have done a pretty good job. There's always things that they could do better."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54721183

I guess people like a toff and don't mind billions being squandered and funnelled into the pockets of Boris Johnson's mates :mad:

Quite frankly, I'm not going to shed a tear for them when it goes horribly wrong for them. They've made their beds, and they're doubling down. ****-em :mad:

Captain_Swoop 29th October 2020 03:56 AM

MP Greg Smith voted no to feeding hungry children in the holidays. Small businesses near him like the Curiositea Tea room stepped up to feed them instead.
Then the agent of said MP asks if Greg can have a press visit to the Tea Shop and other businesses and hand out some of their free food.

Guess what the reply was.

The Don 29th October 2020 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13273577)
MP Greg Smith voted no to feeding hungry children in the holidays. Small businesses near him like the Curiositea Tea room stepped up to feed them instead.
Then the agent of said MP asks if Greg can have a press visit to the Tea Shop and other businesses and hand out some of their free food.

Guess what the reply was.

Oh, I would have certainly had him along.

I would also have made sure that there were plenty of people there to ask him why he voted the way he voted and why he was now trying to give the impression that he was on board with feeding children in the holidays.

Ideally I'd have some high profile people along to ask said questions.

RolandRat 29th October 2020 06:59 AM

"Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour party after EHRC antisemitism report comments

Angela Rayner, Labour’s deputy leader, who was promoted to the shadow cabinet under Corbyn, said the former party leader had “ an absolute blind spot” on appreciating the scale of the problem.

Asked by BBC Radio 4 about Corbyn’s suspension, she said: “I’m devastated that it’s come to this. Today should be about really listening, reading and taking in the report.”

Asked about Corbyn’s response, she said: “I’m deeply, deeply upset by the circumstances, and upset that Jeremy wasn’t able to see the pain that the Jewish community have gone through.

Jeremy Corbyn said he will “strongly contest the political intervention to suspend me” from the party.

Corbyn has been suspended from the party after the human rights watchdog found it broke equality law in its handling of antisemitism.

Corbyn rejected some of the report’s findings and claimed the issue had been “dramatically overstated for political reasons” by his critics.

A Labour party spokesman said: “In light of his comments made today and his failure to retract them subsequently, the Labour party has suspended Jeremy Corbyn pending investigation.

“He has also had the whip removed from the parliamentary Labour party.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-antisemitism


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