Unless it is a catholic hospital in which case they absolutely consider it an abortion. It's almost as if they defined abortion in their own way at odds with religious and medical doctrine to achieve the effect they want.

Up next spontaneous abortion is also not an abortion.

Yeah, almost as if. :rolleyes:

The legal definition is controlling when we're discussing what hospitals are allowed to do. Which we were.

No, "WE" were not discussing what hospitals are allowed to do. "WE" were discussing whether terminating an ectopic pregnancy is an abortion. Texas can legally define it however it wants to in order to legally skirt the fact that it is medically an abortion.

Next up: Pi=3.

Legally or mathematically?:D

Horse ******* ****.

Republicans ban stuff they can't define all the time. Save me your selective outrage and your even more selective standards.

It's not my standard, it's Texas's standard. I'm just describing it. Why does that offend you? And it's not a matter of what they can ban, it's a matter of what they did and didn't ban. They didn't ban terminating ectopic pregnancy. There is no ambiguity in the law about that. If you want to object to the law on other grounds, go ahead. The problem with methotrexate access is a real issue. But ectopic pregnancies? Nope. Texas is in the clear on that one.

Besides, as we're beginning to see at least anecdotally in places like Oklahoma, they don't have to ban, with its high risk of being overturned, if they make the law vague enough, the penalty stiff enough, and the financial and career damage even of winning a case dire enough.

N. Dakota just passed one of the strictest abortion bans in the country which only allows abortion during the first six weeks and only in cases of incest and rape. Abortions in case of serious medical emergencies for the woman such as an ectopic pregnancy would be allowed.

A 10-year-old girl who is raped, and who would likely have no idea she was pregnant, would be forced to carry to term and give birth at one day past 6 weeks gestation. This is just plain monstrous child abuse. But these Republican
:rule10 can pat themselves on the back and tell each other what glorious pro-life "think of the children" Christians they are while making a child endure an ordeal she cannot comprehend and could literally and figuratively scar her for life.

I detest the lot of them.

Ah, Indiana.

I note the maternal mortality rate in ND is five times that of California.

Not to dispute this, but do you have a source? Most of what I've seen is inconclusive but suggests the rate is pretty low, though a small initial population makes a meaningful figure difficult anyway. The CDC, for example, leaves this area blank for many states, and the raw maternal death figure includes any pregnant woman who dies, including by accident, Covid, and such.

I do note that as of 2019 at least, the infant mortality rate was the highest it's ever been, and showing a continuous increase.

Sure.
Maternal Mortality Rate by State
North Dakota 20.1 deaths per 100,000
California 4.0 deaths per 100,000

Horrifically 20.1 is actually good for USAia.... :boggled:
Louisiana sees 58.1.

Thanks. For some reason none of my searches came up with this, and they all seemed to track back the the CDC.

Nice to know I come from one of the three zero states.

No problem, glad I could be of assistance.

Oklahoma has a total ban on elective abortion.

The Nebraska bill passed and the filibuster will not hold it

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...tions-98525689

One senator was holding out for 12 weeks but will go for the 6 if 12 weeks does not get advanced. It is still possible that there are 2 republicans that will reconsider. The party wanted to show unity at this point. This will be either voted on by June or will once again end up in the 2024 session.

Yes, and from what I've heard, it's so draconian that it seems some health care providers cannot safely decide what is elective and what is not, so they are denying or delaying care to those who need it. Note that cases not entirely clear are said to require consultation with the attorney general's office. I think that's crazy.

It's a common theme in a few areas of criminal law.

By defining crimes ambiguously and setting penalties extremely high the legislature can in effect move the judicial function from the courts to the executive. It no longer really matters whether a conviction would stand as much as it matters whether or not you get charged and what you are charged with.

The case of delegating medical opinion to an attorney general, though, I think constitutes an added level of criminal craziness.

When the SC overturned R v W, who could have foreseen the Right wing extremist state legislatures would start passing such extreme and draconian bans/restrictions on abortion? :rolleyes:

nebraska bill is dead for a year
2 republicans did not vote
https://www.1011now.com/2023/04/27/h...inder-session/

It will reappear in 2024 but the politicians will face angry mobs in some districts. Capitol protests also.

Everyone with a working brain?

Nebraska state senator abstained. He is from Omaha and won by just 5% last time. He is thinking re-election 2026 by this vote.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ture-rcna81918

There you go again, polluting the populist pond with insidious brainism.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/28/polit...ght/index.html

The Right really could ban most abortions nationwide using the Comstock Act. It's really a shame Democrats didn't kill bad laws like this when they had the chance. Although they really could use this threat to get lots of support to win back Congress.

Prediction
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/28/polit...ght/index.html
5th Circuit court will ban mailing of abortion pills.

They could also conceivably ban the mailing of any specialty equipment used for abortions.

But Congress could easily kill Comstock through a Reconciliation bill. Only 51 votes needed in Senate.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

https://apnews.com/article/c78ec68b0...3f6e136ba3e045

Phew! That was close.

...and Blue states are fighting back, especially against Red states like Idaho that have now made it illegal for their own citizens to leave their state to get an abortion in another state... yes, you read that correctly - Idaho Republicans are explicitly threatening to bring prosecutions against doctors in other states for providing abortions to Idaho residents while they're not in Idaho. In response, Washington and Minnesota state legislatures have passed bills protecting abortion seekers from other states and abortion providers in their own state from prosecutions by other states.

In a letter to the Idaho Governor, the Washington State Governor, Jay Inslee wrote "we will protect our providers and we will harbor and comfort your residents who seek health care services that are denied to them in Idaho. We will Harbor and comfort your residents who have to flee your state to come here to get health care that you have criminalized"

Governor Inslee has also signed legislation that blocks law their enforcement officials and courts from aiding any other State's abortion related legal investigation. It also blocks police and courts in Washington from assisting other states' investigations going after trans people, protects Washington doctors from professional disciplinary action if they provide care that is in violation of some other State's laws. He also signed legislation that says in Washington, the data from cell phone apps that can track your period can't be shared without you okaying it so they, cannot use that data or those apps as evidence in any prosecution related to abortion

Governor Inslee has also bought a stockpile of abortion pills for Washington. He signed legislation to assure that medication abortions stay legal and available in Washington even as Republicans try to ban them in every state in the country.

I have little doubt that, even if the ruling by Kacsmaryk (the nutjob federal judge in Texas) were not to be overturned, the governments of Blue states such as Washington will simply defy his ruling and will become the provider of mediation abortion drugs. What is the federal court going to to about it... arrest the Governor, or the members of the state legislature?

Anyway, Rachel Maddow sums it all up nicely here...

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I AGREE

Good for Gov. Inslee! Idaho has been a growing ground and haven for right-wing extremists and it's only getting worse.

In PA, the Democrats have barely managed to get a majority in the state house, but my local rep had to resign after a sex scandal. So a special election is being held. To say the democrats are pushing hard would be an understatement and they Democratic candidate (Heather Boyd) is basically running on "if they get a majority they will ban abortion"* while the GOP candidate's TV ads don't even mention what party she represents, as well as nothing but undefined "common sense" as her platform. (The mailed GOP ads try to blame Boyd for inflation and I wonder how that works). But the pressure is on and I have gotten multiple calls reminding me to vote on may 16th as well as requests to volunteer.


* Somewhat unlikely as the Governor is a Democrat and would doubtless veto any abortion restrictions but the sentiment is there

Ballot initiative in Florida. I imagine that if done right there's little that can be done to not have it pass. DeSantis is probably the most fascist governor in the US; but I'm not sure what kind of mischief he (and the FL GOP) can come up with to sabotage this.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/05/desantis-abortion-ban-initiative-00095486:

From your link:

“Floridians know what is best for their own bodies and their own lives,” Sarah Standiford, national campaigns director for Planned Parenthood Action Fund, said in an interview Thursday.

According to De Santis and the GOP controlled state legislature, they know what's best for them.

Sarah is, unfortunately, under the illusion that Florida is a democracy.

Sarah is also under the illusion that DeSantis and FL Republicans really give a crap what is best for women. What they do care about is how to stay in power.

You're not sure? I'd hazard a guess that they'd try to do something rather similar to it as they did to the ballot initiative to restore voting rights to ex felons. In that case, of particular note is that the Republican legislature pretty brazenly attached a BS poll tax to that, despite how overtly unconstitutional it seems to be. Pay back all your fines before you can vote! Nevermind that Florida doesn't seem to actually keep valid records on that front and what fines there are are frequently absurd from the start, so it's pretty much a recipe for mass miscarriages of justice and spitting upon the overwhelming will of the people. Given how unconstitutional it is, I don't think I saw any predictions about that course of action in advance. Thus, well, we're left with a heck of a lot of potential mischief that can be come up with so long as they're not reined in.

Y'all-qaeda performs an honor killing in Texas.

Texas woman killed by boyfriend after she got an abortion