This is a horrible story, but something about it is just plain wrong. She was in Mississippi, and the closest abortion clinic was in Chicago? No, that's not true, Illinois is a big state, and Chicago is in the far northern part. There are abortion clinics all over Illinois, including Southern Illinois. I'm just outside St. Louis, Chicago is 250+ miles north of me. A quick google search found a clinic 40 miles south on me in Fairview Heights, IL That would have been 5 hours closer, and I'd wager there are others even closer still.
Don't hammer me about this, I think reversal of Roe vs Wade was an obvious and avoidable disaster, but I'm sorry, there's is something seriously wrong with this story.

It's always good to question.

To be fair, when you take into account ALL of the costs, there will literally be ****-all difference between the cost of getting an abortion in the nearest clinic in Illinois (Hope Clinic in Granite City) and getting one in Chicago

Oh sure, its 9 hours drive to Chicago from Clarksdale, and only 4 hours to Granite city, but there is also

- taking the time off work,
- accommodation for the girl and her mother
- the cost of the abortion

The fuel cost is insignificant compared with those fixed costs, none of which will be significantly impacted by the travel costs.

To nitpick a little:

- Are the available clinics open on a day when she isn't working?
- Can the entire procedure be done in one day, or should she have a day or two of bed rest after?
- If abortion was available in Mississippi, it would still have to be paid for

Can't answer that, sorry

IANAD, but IIRC, it can depend on how many weeks pregnant she was.

AIUI, less than about 14 weeks can be done by suction aspiration method which can be done on an outpatient basis. Beyond that it is usually overnight stay. If there are complications (which you must allow for, and for a 13 year-old, the risk is higher) it could require a couple of days.

Probably, but that might be the only cost. There is a Woman's Clinic in Clarksdale where they live. Not sure it if performed abortions before the Dobbs decision.

Oh! I confess I didn't read the Guardian article until now and didn't realize the girl in question as only 13. That certainly changes the dynamics of the story.

I wonder what the life of the boy she gave birth to will be like? That's another terrible thing about the anti-abortion laws. Congratulations, Mississippi, you now have one more poor black kid growing up in your state.

:rolleyes:

"Black foetuses being 'murdered'" was one of the reasons given by the anti-abortionistas for repealing Roe v Wade. Allegedly black women have abortions at a higher rate than white women.

It might be the case that not just any clinic, which would otherwise provide abortion services, will be willing to do serve a very young patient. This is just a wild guess on my part; and I have not found anything suggesting that this is the case so it's probably not the case.

From https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/08/16/1194280392/ruling-deals-blow-to-access-to-abortion-pill-mifepristone-but-nothing-changes-ye:

And a game of whack-a-mole will ensue.

Line 1. A specific drug is used for carrying out abortions.

Line 2. Anti-abortionists get the court to ban that specific drug.

Line 3. Drug companies simply change the formulation ever so slightly.

Line 4. They market it under a different name.

Line 5. The court ruling does not specify this newly named drug is banned, therefore it does not apply.

Line 6. The court ruling is effectively bypassed.

Line 7. Goto Line 1

I'm so glad you posted this because I was just about to let my fingers loose on the keyboard! :D

Irony is dead.

Memphis is much closer.

https://yourchoices.org/memphis/abor...ic-memphis-tn/



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At last check, black women certainly do have abortions at a higher rate than white women. Significantly higher, really. Such is pretty well to be expected, of course, given the huge income and wealth gaps in play and the various consequences of such.

Repealing Roe v Wade disproportionately harms black women in several quite important ways, either way, which makes that particular bit of reasoning by the "anti-abortionistas" particularly loathsome.

The Right Wing has been murdering irony over and over and over and over for a long while, now. Given that seemingly all of their major narratives are Big Lies, that's not really surprising, of course.

Oprah was born in Mississippi. Her mom was 19. Looks like Oprah did ok.
Obama's mom was 18. He does well. Who knows how the child will fare? Though any chance at life is better than none I think.

There's nothing "alleged" about it, Black babies are aborted more often than any other race. Not to worry though, places like New York City have protected abortion for those in the targeted groups. More Black babies are aborted in NYC than are born every day. Progress? Where and what does this "progression" lead to? Depends on who you ask I guess.

If I wanted to rid the World of a particular race, I'd follow the Liberal play book to the letter. It's almost as if it was written by the KKK.

surely you're grown up enough to realize that 2 exceptional people don't counter balance the rest of the population

Oprah and Barack may be the exceptions to the rule, and there's a small chance this one will fare all right, too. We can hope. However we likely won't find out unless a reporter goes looking for him some time after 2040.

His mother and grandmother have had their lives turned upside-down. I really don't know how well-off they are or if they're even planning to keep him, but I know for sure the same state that forced this child on them isn't going to pay nearly enough toward the costs in raising him. But I guess it's just a small price to pay so this kid can have his kick at the can, too.

Would you consider adopting him yourself to improve his chances?

I think not. Or at least I don’t presume to think I know what is best for someone else.

And generally we do know what the likely outcome will be. Sure, there are exceptions. But so what?

The state has no business violating the bodily autonomy of its citizens. By the way, lots of conservatives share that opinion. Pro Choice has been part of the Libertarian platform for 50 years.

Nonsense. There is a direct correlation between poverty and the frequency of abortion. And yet we still have people that live in poverty.

Also, the African American population in the United States grew by 30 percent in the lasr 20 years. Don’t you just hate it when presented with facts.

My question to you. Do you support Welfare or AFDC? How about Food Stamps? Universal Healthcare?

Does quality of life matter?

:confused:

Forgive me if I'm missing something, but this sure looks like grasping at straws.

The comparison here to Oprah's mom and Obama's mom seems entirely forced and to ignore just about every matter of significance and all the important differences in favor of a ham-handed push for forced birth policy.

The ham-handedness is to the point where it's not unthinkable to walk away with the impression that you support the rape and torture of children, because really, that's exactly what you're choosing to defend in this instance here.

:rolleyes:

Ahh, cherry-picking and then using that to push absurdity. Up is down, eh?

Just to poke back at the Guardian article to clarify how Chicago is getting the attention it is -

She was told? That begs questions like "By whom?" and "What, specifically, was she told?" The Guardian article fairly certainly should not have stated such as fact in the sub-heading and should have verified what the actual closest place was.

I like to think I'm grown up enough that when confronted with the question of "Whom do you want to kill?" My answer will always be "Nobody."

Answering a question that just isn't particularly relevant to the issues at hand tends to be a poor way to try to make an argument.

It can make for an easy way to dodge actually dealing with unpleasant things, of course!

You do realize there is quite a bit of difference between a 13 yr old and an 18 and 19 year old giving birth?

I have no problem with you having that opinion. What I do have a problem with is your opinion being forced on little girls or women who don't share that opinion.



That was true ten years ago in 2013 in NY City when the claim your are repeating was voiced by Cynthia Meyer, who was the deputy press secretary for Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton in early 2015. It's based on a 2013 report. But it's also true that the same report stated that more Black babies were born than aborted in the State of New York in 2013.

Well, that's one way to look at it if, of course, one believes these Black women were/are being forced to have abortions by Liberals. But they're not. They're making that choice themselves because they have the freedom and legal right to do so, unlike in states that have virtually made it impossible to have an abortion. For example, in Nazi Germany. It's almost like as if these were written by Hitler. Oh, wait. They were!


"It must be considered reprehensible to withhold healthy children from the nation," adding that the "state must act as the guardian of a millennial future in the face of which the wishes and the selfishness of the individual must appear as nothing and submit."

"Every child that a woman brings into the world is a battle, a battle waged for the existence of her people. [...] Whereas previously the programs of the liberal, intellectualist women's movements contained many points, the program of our National Socialist Women's movement has in reality but one single point, and that point is the child, that tiny creature which must be born and grow strong and which alone gives meaning to the whole life-struggle."


German Law 1943:

"A woman who kills her fetus or permits such a killing by another will be punished by a prison sentence and, in especially serious cases, by penitentiary. An attempt is punishable. Whoever else kills the fetus of a pregnant woman will be punished by a penitentiary sentence, in milder cases by prison.

If the perpetrator through such deeds continuously impairs the vitality of the German Volk, the death penalty can be imposed. Whoever procures for the pregnant woman a means or objects for killing the fetus will be punished by prison sentence, and in especially serious cases, by penitentiary."

Ah facts, yes I do like those. I see you've been reading Pews. Did you also read the part that said:

"Black Americans are diverse. This group consists of people with varied racial and ethnic identities and experiences. The nation’s Black population includes those who say their race is Black, either alone or in combination with other racial backgrounds. It also includes Hispanics or Latinos who say their race is Black."

Kinda like Elizabeth Warren identifying as Native American. Sure.

I was more interested in the numbers from the US Census Bureau that lists 41.62 million Black population in 2019 and 41.60 million in 2020.

It's not only the Black population that has been and continues to be under direct attack, it's ALL Minorities. The Black population just seems to be the most targeted. Population control seems to be a thing among some political philosophies. I prefer a strong Economy and giving everyone equal opportunity to succeed.

Abortion is easy access to extermination. Hitler would be proud and you know it.

I do so love it when people make a declaration and then add "and you know it". Trump is particularly fond of including "and everyone knows it" after stating a bald faced lie.

Magnificent! However those laws were designed to promote Aryan births as part of Hitler's Eugenics laws.

You do remember the part about non-Aryan births right? Right?

"Abortion procedures were placed under strict political control. Abortions for eugenic reasons were also prohibited during this period, but in some hereditary health courts such abortions were exempt from punishment. (This consideration extended to the exemption of punishment for a Jewish couple who attempted to procure an abortion in 1938, on the basis that the law did not protect Jewish embryos."

Again, the Minority (Jewish) was given easy access to abortion. So it's well beyond dishonest to infer Hitler was on board with modern Conservatives regarding abortion. In fact, the facts point to Hitler being on board with Democrats 100% regarding abortion and Minorities.

Why, yes...I'm well aware that this was intended for Aryan women. But your arguments fall flat because a) eugenics was the killing of people with mental challenges and hereditary diseases or were deemed 'inferior' races, b) what races are excluded from these strict abortion laws in so many red states and c) in what blue states are Black people given 'easy access to abortion' that other races are not given?


Again, what Minority is given easy access to abortion that other races/ethnic groups are not also given easy access to? So it's well beyond dishonest to claim that Blacks are "being targeted" for easy abortions.
In fact, the facts point to you not understanding the facts at all.

Are they under attack? Poverty is the real attacker. Wealth and income inequality causes lifetimes of misery. Lack of opportunity. I noticed you didn't address my question about quality of life. Or support for AFDC, food stamps, Universal Health Care. But lets be honest, women of all races want to control their own reproductive health. They don't need or want you or the government what they can or cannot do with their bodies.

I had a close woman friend who got pregnant in college. She was faced with having to quit college because of it. She got an abortion, finished college, then medical school. Now she specializes in pediatric oncology.

Are you saying she made a mistake?

To be fair to that - it can occasionally be true. At some point, calling out the willfully blind and obtuse as willfully blind and obtuse is reasonable.

With that said, ChrisBFRPKY should be aware of the dismal quality of his arguments, I think, even if he likely doesn't want to dwell on such. Falling for the up is down spin attempts by groups with a rather comprehensive history of seeking to suppress and exploit the poor and minorities as they push measures to suppress and make it easier to continue exploiting the poor and minorities should cause a bit of cognitive dissonance, though. As for the "pro-life" pretenses, when those groups pushing forced birth are also a hairsbreadth away, if even that, from acting as a death cult for those actually born, it's outright absurd.

Conservatives don't understand the concept of consent, news at 11.

Yes, the Nazis and their famously voluntary eugenics program.

One of them (Obama) is hardly what I might choose as representative of a "poor black kid" even if I did not know the rest of the story when they grew up. Less privileged than the the vast majority of subset of people who make serious attempts at seeking the presidency of the United States? Sure, I'll grant you that much.

Hmm, there's a crisis pregnancy center in Clarksdale. I wonder if this could be related? Their mission is to do anything possible to prevent women to come to them from having an abortion. This includes lying to women.

:rolleyes: Conspiratorial bollocks, as usual.

But you're fine with endangering the lives of children by forcing them to carry a pregnancy to term.
:rolleyes:

Unfortunately plausible.

Which might somehow be relevant if the modern American left was pushing for racial purity laws with respect to abortion. Any evidence for such?

Why should they? Dear Leader doesn't!

Evidence? You expect evidence? From a bigfoot chaser?