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-   -   The Marjorie Taylor Greene thread. (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347945)

Stacyhs 29th December 2021 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13690240)
At this point, it's not about bringing in new people, it's about hardening their support with the people they already have.

Getting new people would require them to consider taking some new positions, and they've shown they have absolutely zero interest in that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevbo (Post 13690635)
Which brings up the whole issue of voter disenfranchising, gerrymandering, etc., since they can't win on just their base. Not all of them are as stupid as MTG. They have a way that has worked in the past, and are trying to improve on it. Hence the need to pass the federal voter protection legislation.

I agree with both of you.

gnome 29th December 2021 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13690240)
There's also the punchline, "Well, aren't we just the luckiest Muslims in all Scotland!", although I heard it as Ireland way back when.

That last is how I first heard it too, "I'm just the luckiest Arab in Belfast."

kevbo 29th December 2021 11:24 PM

Many people seem to agree that MTG has no interest in governing, or helping anyone other than herself. Reminds me of her idol Trump. I just keep hoping that somewhere along the line she will do something so incredibly stupid that it will cost her all of the money she has grifted from the gullible. Maybe even stupid enough to result in prison. Ahh, to dream... Trump, too.

Ladewig 30th December 2021 06:31 AM

Pretty much every post in this thread that mentions stupidity and attention whore could be lifted word-for-word and fit perfectly into most Trump threads.

ETA
I just saw the previous post already noted similarities.

Ladewig 30th December 2021 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevbo (Post 13690872)
Many people seem to agree that MTG has no interest in governing, or helping anyone other than herself. Reminds me of her idol Trump.

I look at that slightly differently. I believe that Trump is interested in governing but that his definition of governing is enriching himself. I believe he is incapable of understanding either the meaning or the motivation behind being a public servant. If someone tried to explain it to him he would just label the idea as pure craziness.

JoeMorgue 30th December 2021 06:45 AM

Well yeah. MTG is like all trolls. She's not actually smart enough to figure out their trolling routine on their own, she's following someone else's script.

She's "Let's Go Brandon" in the flesh.

Horatius 30th December 2021 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladewig (Post 13691015)
Pretty much every post in this thread that mentions stupidity and attention whore could be lifted word-for-word and fit perfectly into most Trump threads.

ETA
I just saw the previous post already noted similarities.



Oh, yeah, she is without a doubt a true believer in Trump's real lesson: You can use political office to enrich yourself by suckering the plebes.

Used to be, you had to get bribed by some big corporation to enrich yourself as a politician, but those guys actually expected something for their money - lower taxes, targeted spending, a hand in writing regulations and legislation, things that took some actual work - but all the plebes want is for you to "own the libs" and take even more of their money.

The work of actually governing need not be done, and in fact, actually gets in the way of the real work, which is keeping your face in front of the cameras.

SuburbanTurkey 30th December 2021 06:52 AM

I'm curious what exactly MTG should be doing instead? I mean, let's assume not being some christo-fascist isn't an option, because clearly that isn't in her case.

Do a thought experiment with me. You're someone with an outside the mainstream political ideology representing a district where the voting base is also outside the mainstream. You're in Congress, but you really don't have the allies and the numbers to actually advance any of your agenda items. What do you do with your time?

Grandstanding and making the case for your fringe political position, in hopes that you can sway others across the country and elect similarly minded colleagues (or flip existing members) is probably as good of use of time as anything. If you have no real power, PR stunts are not a terrible way to try to do the yeomen's work of building a political movement.

Much of the same analysis could be applied to people like AOC. Do big flashy stunts, get your political message out there, especially in contrast to the mainstream that people are increasingly losing confidence in, and hope that in 2,4,8 years it pays off in the form of more likeminded congresspeople on your side. In time there might be enough of your to actually have legislative leverage as a "wing" within a party, or even become the dominant wing within a party.

My problem with MTG isn't so much her PR stunts, which seem like a reasonable way to approach her current predicament. My problem is that she's a fascist and the political project she is advocating for is fascism. Which is bad, but let's not confuse bad politics with bad tactics.

JoeMorgue 30th December 2021 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13691032)
I'm curious what exactly MTG should be doing instead?

I dunno. A minimum wage job spraying Bug-B-Gone on car windshields at my local car wash seems about her speed. Not sure if I'd trust her with the deep fry basket at McDonalds. Do counties still hire people to scrape roadkill off the road?

As you say the problem is she's a violent extremist, there's no "right way" to do that.

The issue with her just being a bog-standard internet troll but in real life is how effective it has been in putting her in and keeping her in a position of power.

Someone like her in a position of power is not normal and we shouldn't be arguing in the context that it is.

We're criticizing her, not giving her a performance review.

SuburbanTurkey 30th December 2021 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13691036)
I dunno. A minimum wage job spraying Bug-B-Gone on car windshields at my local car wash seems about her speed. Not sure if I'd trust her with the deep fry basket at McDonalds. Do counties still hire people to scrape roadkill off the road?

As you say the problem is she's a violent extremist, there's no "right way" to do that.

The issue with her just being a bog-standard internet troll but in real life is how effective it has been in putting her in and keeping her in a position of power.

I think there's value in discussing political tactics and their effectiveness, especially if you're someone hoping to see people like MTG ultimately fail. Considering the position she is currently in, I think she and others like her are making the most of their positions and doing a lot to popularize their particular brand of toxic politics. Ignoring the problem doesn't change this.


Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13691036)
Someone like her in a position of power is not normal and we shouldn't be arguing in the context that it is.

It's not good, but it's very normal. She's not an anomaly no more than Trump's an anomaly. People like them will continue to be successful in politics for the foreseeable future. It's almost certainly going to get worse before it gets better, and getting better is not even a certainty.

JoeMorgue 30th December 2021 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13691037)
I think there's value in discussing political tactics and their effectiveness, especially if you're someone hoping to see people like MTG ultimately fail. Considering the position she is currently in, I think she and others like her are making the most of their positions and doing a lot to popularize their particular brand of toxic politics. Ignoring the problem doesn't change this.

It's not good, but it's very normal. She's not an anomaly no more than Trump's an anomaly. People like them will continue to be successful in politics for the foreseeable future. It's almost certainly going to get worse before it gets better, and getting better is not even a certainty.

Oh save it. That's a laugh riot coming from you.

Here we'll make easier. Just close your eyes and imagine she's a centrist.

SuburbanTurkey 30th December 2021 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13691041)
Oh save it. That's a laugh riot coming from you.

Here we'll make easier. Just close your eyes and imagine she's a centrist.

No, she's far more savvy than most centrists. I wish she were so ineffectual, then I wouldn't have to care about her.

ETA: This whole period of political crisis must be awfully bewildering for centrists. Things just keep getting worse and worse for no discernable reason.

JoeMorgue 30th December 2021 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13691043)
No, she's far more savvy than most centrists. I wish she were so ineffectual, then I wouldn't have to care about her.

Why do I get the feeling this is a lead up to some try hard argument that you'd be just fine if uber-progressives adopted her tactics?

You're starting to sound like Ash talking about the Xenomorph in Alien. "I admire it's purity."

SuburbanTurkey 30th December 2021 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13691044)
Why do I get the feeling this is a lead up to some try hard argument that you'd be just fine if uber-progressives adopted her tactics?

They're not "her" tactics. MTG didn't invent grandstanding and nothing she is doing is particularly novel. There are plenty of grandstanding progressives that have been successful.

In a world that is increasingly becoming dissatisfied with the crumbling center run by geriatrics, I would expect to see grandstanding outsiders to become more common.

JoeMorgue 30th December 2021 07:25 AM

Literally chasing other lawmakers down the halls screeching "Debate me you coward" is not grandstanding, it's trolling.

It won't become a good thing if AOC does it Biden tomorrow.

SuburbanTurkey 30th December 2021 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13691046)
Literally chasing other lawmakers down the halls screeching "Debate me you coward" is not grandstanding, it's trolling.

It won't become a good thing if AOC does it Biden tomorrow.

Someone confronting Manchin or Sinema would probably play pretty well with the liberal base. Don't play dumb. Maybe Biden should do it, lord knows he needs a win.

newyorkguy 30th December 2021 07:58 AM

Yesterday Pedro Gonzalez, a fellow at the pro-trump, far right Claremont Institute, tweeted that "Libs are a cancer. They are the absolute worst people in this country." He suggested when "liberals" move from Blue states to Red States (he cited an example of someone moving from California to Florida) they not be allowed to vote for a time while they re-adjust. MTG quickly jumped on board.
Quote:

Marjorie Taylor Greene
@mtgreenee
All possible in a National Divorce scenario.
After Democrat voters and big donors ruin a state like California, you would think it wise to stop them from doing it to another great state like Florida.
Brainwashed people that move from CA and NY really need a cooling off period. Greene's Twitter account
A number of people on Twitter slammed Greene's 'National Divorce' meme. That she's actually suggesting a civil war. This morning, apparently just a few minutes ago, Greene tweeted:
Quote:

Marjorie Taylor Greene
@mtgreenee
If you are so offended by my comments about #NationalDivorce then take a real hard look inward and ask yourself why it’s sadly such a popular idea with Republicans.
We are serious about our freedoms and we feel very threatened by Democrats that constantly tread on them.
Of all the reactions I especially like this one.
Quote:

National divorce is the playbook for Secession and civil war scenario. It happened in former Yugoslavia and it was not pretty.
@mtgreenee is planting dangerous ideas that could end up in bloody violence. People came to America to escape nationalism not to relive it here.

Armitage72 30th December 2021 08:03 AM

That explains the Fox News YouTube thumbnail headline I saw late yesterday about Liberals being "blue" about people moving from Democrat-run states to Republican-run states.

Segnosaur 30th December 2021 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13691032)
I'm curious what exactly MTG should be doing instead? I mean, let's assume not being some christo-fascist isn't an option, because clearly that isn't in her case.

Do a thought experiment with me. You're someone with an outside the mainstream political ideology representing a district where the voting base is also outside the mainstream. You're in Congress, but you really don't have the allies and the numbers to actually advance any of your agenda items. What do you do with your time?

I guess the question is, does she HAVE to sit outside the mainstream political ideology?

She's republican in a district which is deep-red... she would probably get re-elected even if she didn't appear insane.

If she actually wanted to push a right-wing agenda, then she could cut out the insanity, actually gain some allies in congress (so she could have some real influence), and be less of a "Republicans are nuts" distraction (so the republicans would have a better chance picking up seats in later elections).

Quote:

Grandstanding and making the case for your fringe political position, in hopes that you can sway others across the country and elect similarly minded colleagues (or flip existing members) is probably as good of use of time as anything.
But the insanity probably drives away moderate voters in other districts, and any sane member of congress will see how she's been marginalized and decide "I don't want that".

Quote:

Much of the same analysis could be applied to people like AOC. Do big flashy stunts, get your political message out there....
I would be careful about drawing any sort of equivalence between MTG and AOC.

Not that I necessarily agree with all of AOC's politics (and I do agree she wants to get out her "political message") but her actions seem to at least fall within the political norms. I can't recall any sort of actions of AOC that come anywhere near what MTG has done.
Quote:

My problem with MTG isn't so much her PR stunts, which seem like a reasonable way to approach her current predicament. My problem is that she's a fascist and the political project she is advocating for is fascism. Which is bad, but let's not confuse bad politics with bad tactics.
Agreed she is a fascist. But being openly fascist may not be the best way to convince others to join you. Better to use the 'boiling frog' model.

SuburbanTurkey 30th December 2021 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13691123)

Agreed she is a fascist. But being openly fascist may not be the best way to convince others to join you. Better to use the 'boiling frog' model.

She is using the boiling frog model, the pot has been on the stove for a long time now and finally the surface is starting to froth.

MTG is only able to aspire to such levels of insanity because other less crazy republicans before her have steadily pushed the Overton window right.

newyorkguy 30th December 2021 10:06 AM

Is Marjorie Taylor Greene a fascist? I think she would answer no, and mean it. The problem is, Greene doesn't appear to be any kind of a deep thinker. She seems to be, primarily, someone who operates on pure reaction. I would bet that Greene couldn't even define fascism. Recall about a year ago she walked back her support for various QAnon conspiracies.

Quote:

I was allowed to believe things that weren’t true and I would ask questions about them and talk about them,” Greene said, “and that is absolutely what I regret.” CNBC report

She was "allowed" to believe "things?" What kind of an explanation is that? I think the bigger problem is, there ARE fascists in the U.S., they undoubtedly consider Greene a "useful idiot" and they're probably right.

Stacyhs 30th December 2021 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorkguy (Post 13691172)
Is Marjorie Taylor Greene a fascist? I think she would answer no, and mean it. The problem is, Greene doesn't appear to be any kind of a deep thinker. She seems to be, primarily, someone who operates on pure reaction. I would bet that Greene couldn't even define fascism. Recall about a year ago she walked back her support for various QAnon conspiracies.




She was "allowed" to believe "things?" What kind of an explanation is that? I think the bigger problem is, there ARE fascists in the U.S., they undoubtedly consider Greene a "useful idiot" and they're probably right.

It was a standard "I'm not really at fault here; I was a victim" excuse.

She probably couldn't tell you what a fascist is just as she couldn't tell you how socialism is different from communism. I agree that she doesn't think, she reacts.

Apathia 30th December 2021 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13691314)
It was a standard "I'm not really at fault here; I was a victim" excuse.

She probably couldn't tell you what a fascist is just as she couldn't tell you how socialism is different from communism. I agree that she doesn't think, she reacts.

A Reactionary.

Horatius 30th December 2021 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13691032)
I'm curious what exactly MTG should be doing instead? I mean, let's assume not being some christo-fascist isn't an option, because clearly that isn't in her case.

Do a thought experiment with me. You're someone with an outside the mainstream political ideology representing a district where the voting base is also outside the mainstream. You're in Congress, but you really don't have the allies and the numbers to actually advance any of your agenda items. What do you do with your time?



You engage in politics.

You know, that thing that's actually her job.

You talk to people who seem like they might be open to at least some of your ideas, or at least not openly hostile to them. You make them an offer - give me one thing I want in your Fancy Politics Bill, and I'll support the rest of the bill. If/When that passes, you build on it. You get the One Thing passed, then go around the political circuit one more time. "Hey, my One Thing really worked out, look how popular it is! Imagine how popular you'd be if you support my Second Thing!"

If Thing One and Thing Two actually are good, and popular, ideas, you build credibility in the party. Keep it up long enough, and eventually people start approaching you for your support, rather than the other way around.


But that requires work, effort, over a long term. It requires the ability to compromise, and be willing to take half a loaf at first.

None of the new crop of GOPers can do any of that, though.

Norman Alexander 31st December 2021 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorkguy (Post 13691078)
Yesterday Pedro Gonzalez, a fellow at the pro-trump, far right Claremont Institute, tweeted that "Libs are a cancer. They are the absolute worst people in this country." He suggested when "liberals" move from Blue states to Red States (he cited an example of someone moving from California to Florida) they not be allowed to vote for a time while they re-adjust. MTG quickly jumped on board.

Just a sec...

If I'm likely to vote for Democratic policies and I move to deep red Florida, how is anyone there going to know which way I have voted and will vote, especially if I don't tell anyone?

IOW, how are they going to police / enforce this idiocy?

Or are they just going to assume that everyone from California is a Democratic voter, while everyone from Texas is a GOP voter?

So why doesn't MTG just say it out loud: Not "National Divorce" but CIVIL WAR 2!!!

bruto 31st December 2021 02:56 PM

Aside from the absolutely and utterly anti-democratic nature of the proposal above, and its multiple breaches of Federally guaranteed voting rights, it seems also to be almost guaranteed to backfire anyway.

For example, the only people I know who have recently emigrated from liberal New England were conservatives, even Trump voters, heading for warmer and less liberal climes. They are the very people you don't want to disenfranchise, as many of those R states are drifting to the left from inside.

Jim_MDP 31st December 2021 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13692017)
Just a sec...

If I'm likely to vote for Democratic policies and I move to deep red Florida, how is anyone there going to know which way I have voted and will vote, especially if I don't tell anyone?

IOW, how are they going to police / enforce this idiocy?

Or are they just going to assume that everyone from California is a Democratic voter, while everyone from Texas is a GOP voter?

So why doesn't MTG just say it out loud: Not "National Divorce" but CIVIL WAR 2!!!

Lol... someone should ask her, if she's so put out by vaxports (which Fox News have had in effect in their properties for going on ~5 months)... what ID system does she have in mind for blue to red RELOs?
Hmm Marg?
What a maroon. [emoji1]

Lurch 31st December 2021 03:54 PM

"Who's Marjorie Taylor Greene?"

"Of her we say, she's empty, gee."

zorro99 2nd January 2022 08:41 AM

Twitter suspended her account

zorro99 2nd January 2022 08:46 AM

Permanently

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/01/02/p...ion/index.html

kookbreaker 2nd January 2022 08:58 AM

Mwahahahaha!

The Great Zaganza 2nd January 2022 09:07 AM

Instead of banning, Twitter should sue these grifters for 95% of the money they raise with their propaganda..
That would stop disinformation overnight.

shemp 2nd January 2022 09:27 AM

She and her followers will insist that she is a victim of the liberal cancel culture. Not, of course, that she spread misinformation that likely contributed to numerous deaths.

newyorkguy 2nd January 2022 10:10 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by shemp (Post 13693113)
She and her followers will insist that she is a victim of the liberal cancel culture...

Greene already has. She's calling Twitter an enemy of the American people.
Quote:

On the alternative social messaging platform Telegram, Ms. Greene said that Twitter “is an enemy to America and can’t handle the truth.” link to New York Times article
I saw the image below in one of the news stories about Greene's Twitter ban. Couldn't resist. Sorry. :blush:

sackett 2nd January 2022 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorkguy (Post 13693141)
....I saw the image below in one of the news stories about Greene's Twitter ban. Couldn't resist. Sorry. :blush:

You should be blushing. You're guilty of historical inaccuracy and political distortion. Sieg Heil indeed! National Socialism had no tolerance for the mentally deficient, and systematically liquidated such unfit blemishes from the racial inventory. Not a bad idea today!

Further, fascism (REAL fascism, MANLY fascism!) requires legionaires who not only follow orders but who can understand them in the first place! Try measuring the distance between that mop-squeezer's eyes -- hell, try fitting your thumb into that space -- and then tell me you want her in your squadismo.

Indeed!

Stacyhs 2nd January 2022 02:17 PM

I think her water district needs to test its water for lead. Either that or her parents painted her crib with lead paint and she teethed on its rails.

Captain_Swoop 2nd January 2022 02:20 PM

She still has her @RepMTG Twitter account.
.

Norman Alexander 2nd January 2022 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13693324)
She still has her @RepMTG Twitter account.
.

Isn't that her "official" government megaphone? Which is subject to certain congressional rules and such?

JoeMorgue 2nd January 2022 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13693325)
Isn't that her "official" government megaphone? Which is subject to certain congressional rules and such?

And who exactly is going to stop her from just spewing the nonsense on her official account?

Captain_Swoop 2nd January 2022 05:35 PM

Lauren Boebert tweeted

@laurenboebert
·
8h
Twitter permanently suspended a sitting US President.

They’ve now permanently suspended a sitting member of US Congress.

Of course, both from the same party.

They forget that in 2022 we are taking back the House and we WILL be holding them accountable!


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