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-   -   The post-Trump fascist creep catch-all thread (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350859)

dudalb 12th July 2021 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage72 (Post 13534429)
Back when Sam became Cap and Jane Foster became Thor in the comics, I saw a webcomic that showed a guy shrieking about how the SJWs at Marvel were out of control. It was accompanied by a pie chart that was almost entirely green, labeled "White Male Superheroes", with a tiny blue sliver labeled "Everyone Else". One of the plot points in Falcon & the Winter Soldier was the belief that America would never accept or allow a black Captain America. It's been shown that the consumers of fiction benefit from seeing positive characters who are like themselves. Some people don't want to see anyone who isn't like themselves and see such characters as an attack on them.

And we are getting both those in upcoming Marvel Movies...

Though Porter will not actually become Thor, she will prove worthy of the getting the power of Thor a la Cap in "Avengers:Endgame".

Hell, I remember the fuss back in 2009 when they cast Idris Elba as Heimdall in the first Thor movie. Lots of outrage.How dare a N word play a figure from Norse Mythlogy...

These jerks must have really got a heart attack when they saw Valkarie in Thor 3....
And there was quite a fuss when Captain Marvel came out. A women being the most powerful supehero/heroing in the Marvel Universe really got some of the MAGA crowd mad.

Belz... 12th July 2021 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage72 (Post 13534429)
Back when Sam became Cap and Jane Foster became Thor in the comics, I saw a webcomic that showed a guy shrieking about how the SJWs at Marvel were out of control.

See, the Jane Foster as Thor thing is one thing that I think is ridiculous; first because Thor is the character's name, not his title, and second because of in-comic and out-of-comic claims that any disagreement was tantamount to misogyny.

Wilson becoming Cap is different. Captain America is a title, just like Iron Man.

Trebuchet 12th July 2021 01:19 PM

Lindell has a MyBrain. It's made of chopped foam.

Stacyhs 12th July 2021 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13534391)
Why do people lie about things that can be so easily verified? To what end?

It's a form of narcissism: the belief that they are smarter than everyone else and no one will check because they'll be believed. In fact, it just shows how stupid they are.

Armitage72 12th July 2021 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13534761)
See, the Jane Fostr as Thor thing is one thing that I think is ridiculous; first because Thor is the character's name, not his title, and second because of in-comic and out-of-comic claims that any disagreement was tantamount to misogyny.


By that point, there had been at least four different versions of Thor in the comics, so it almost had become a title. Other people temporarily becoming Thor was well established.

Don Blake/Original Thor
Red Norvell
Eric Masterson
Dargo Ktor (Future Thor, later retconned as an alternate Earth)

Stacyhs 12th July 2021 03:11 PM

Trump is delusional and there is no denying it. His remarks during an interview Sunday with Maria Bartiromo regarding Jan. 6:

Quote:

Former President Donald Trump on Sunday widely praised those who attended the Jan. 6 rally that preceded the insurrection at the Capitol, repeatedly using the word “love” to describe the tone of the event.

Speaking on “Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Bartiromo” on the Fox News Channel, he also said the rally participants were patriots, that some of them were unjustly arrested and jailed, and that a woman who was shot and killed by law enforcement during the insurrection was a great hero.

“The crowd was unbelievable and I mentioned the word ‘love,’ the love in the air, I’ve never seen anything like it,” he said of his rally on the Ellipse. “That’s why they went to Washington.”

Well...he's right about that. I've never seen anything like it, either. In fact, we've never seen anything like a mob storming the Capitol in an effort to sabotage Congress from fulfilling its Constitutional duty.




Quote:

He added: “Too much spirit and faith and love, there was such love at that rally, you had over a million people,” inflating the size of his rally crowd.
A MILLION people? Wow! Those porta potties must have been seriously overused! And it was even bigger than his inauguration crowd...which was bigger than Obama's ...like nothing the world has ever seen before!

Quote:

“Who is the person that shot an innocent, wonderful, incredible woman, a military woman, right in the head?” Trump said. “There is no repercussion — that were on the other side, it would be the biggest story in this country. Who shot Ashli Babbitt? People want to know and why.”
Babbitt wasn't shot in the head. She was shot in the shoulder. We know who shot Babbitt: a Capitol police officer who was cleared because Babbitt was engaged in illegal, violent activity.


Quote:

Bartiromo then referred to Babbitt as “a wonderful woman fatally shot on January 6 as she tried to climb out of a broken window.”
Um..no. Babbitt was climbing THROUGH a broken window just feet from where members of Congress were hiding in fear from the mob she was a part of. I guess lying is catching when you sit too near Trump.

Quote:

Referring to his remarks to the crowd before they stormed the Capitol as “a very mild-mannered speech,” Trump also suggested that the blame for any violence that day could be placed on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats because they didn’t take the potential for violence seriously.

“They are the ones that were responsible,” he said.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...-people-499165

Mild mannered? I'd hate to see what he considers inflammatory speech. Oh...it's whatever Democrats do.

Trump also claimed that the people at the rally and the mob who stormed the Capitol were there because, "They felt the election was rigged. That's why they were there. And they were peaceful people. These were great people."


Yeah, "peaceful people" always bring knives, bear spray, baseball bats, and guns to a peaceful rally:

Quote:

U.S. prosecutors for the first time have charged a defendant in the Jan. 6 Capitol breach with violating a federal law that makes it a crime to transport a firearm or explosive for unlawful use in a riot.

The rare weapons charge was handed up Wednesday in a five-count superseding indictment against Guy Wesley Reffitt, 48, who prosecutors say brought a rifle and semiautomatic handgun to Washington and recruited members to a right-wing Texas Three Percenters group claiming he had created a new security business to circumvent gun laws.

“I did bring a weapon on property that we own. Federal grounds or not. The law is written, but it doesn’t mean it’s right law. The people that were around me were all carrying, too,” prosecutors quoted Reffitt saying in a court filing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ac2_story.html

Quote:

“Who shot Ashli Babbitt? People want to know and why,” Trump said.

Bartiromo asked Trump who he thought shot her.

“I will tell you they know who shot Ashli Babbitt, they’re protecting that person," he replied. "I’ve heard also that it was the head of security for a certain high official — a Democrat — and we’ll see because it’s going to come out. It’s going to come out."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...bbitt-n1273753

Yes, we do know who shot Babbitt and he wasn't "the head of security for a certain high official — a Democrat." Pathological liars gonna lie. And this is the POS that the GOP wants to put back into the White House. It's insane. Just insane. Anyone who supports this SOB is an idiot.

Belz... 12th July 2021 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage72 (Post 13534809)
By that point, there had been at least four different versions of Thor in the comics, so it almost had become a title. Other people temporarily becoming Thor was well established.

Don Blake/Original Thor
Red Norvell
Eric Masterson
Dargo Ktor (Future Thor, later retconned as an alternate Earth)

Well it was stupid in every case. :)

dudalb 12th July 2021 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13534761)
See, the Jane Foster as Thor thing is one thing that I think is ridiculous; first because Thor is the character's name, not his title, and second because of in-comic and out-of-comic claims that any disagreement was tantamount to misogyny.

Wilson becoming Cap is different. Captain America is a title, just like Iron Man.

I think they changed the wording a bit in the MCU about the hammer; it ..and the powers of Thor can be wielded by whoever is worthy; that is why Cap could use the hammer in the final battle against Thanos.

Skeptic Ginger 12th July 2021 06:44 PM

As usual, on the one hand the issue was Pelosi didn't prepare for the riot and on the other hand the insurrectionists were all peaceful.

:crazy:

Stacyhs 12th July 2021 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13535082)
As usual, on the one hand the issue was Pelosi didn't prepare for the riot and on the other hand the insurrectionists were all peaceful.

:crazy:

Yep, Pelosi and the Dems didn't take the potential for violence seriously to it's their fault, but at the same time, there was no riot and it was peaceful. Cognitive dissonance just doesn't exist for Trump and his cultists.

carlosy 13th July 2021 12:37 AM

Oh, now sarcasm is getting deleted here?

Great...

PhantomWolf 13th July 2021 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13534926)
Well it was stupid in every case. :)

Not really as each of them took on the power of Thor rather than becoming Thor, with the exception of both Blake and Masterson who was initially joined with Thor. Blake being essentially a host created by Odin until Thor learned a lesson in humility. Masterson and Thor were also merged and would switch places with each other, however, Thor was eventually banished to Earth and Masterson took over with the power of Thor, something he later retained as Thunderstrike.

Belz... 13th July 2021 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13535079)
I think they changed the wording a bit in the MCU about the hammer; it ..and the powers of Thor can be wielded by whoever is worthy; that is why Cap could use the hammer in the final battle against Thanos.

No I think Odin's words in the original were quite explicit and fitting.

Now, as for whether Vision qualifies or is just like an elevator....

SuburbanTurkey 13th July 2021 07:14 AM

Quote:

‘Make These People Squirm’: Far-Right Congressional Candidate Sparks Scuffle At Katie Porter Event

A far-right congressional candidate in Orange County, California called on his supporters to “Confront Katie Porter” in an Instagram post that featured the walk-up music of a pro wrestler.

And on Sunday, candidate Nick Taurus did just that, leading a crew of supporters loudly heckling the Democratic California congresswoman at the start of an outdoor town hall event at a park in Irvine. The confrontation then escalated into a brief scuffle, the details of which remain unclear.

The fighting was over within a few minutes. Karie Davies, a spokesperson for the Irvine Police Department, told TPM “this is an active investigation.”
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/m...e-porter-event

Just fascists violently crashing a run-of-the-mill liberal political rally. I expect the political use of street violence is only getting started.

It's important to remember that one side cannot unilaterally declare nonviolence. The fascists will attack people whether they are ready to fight back or not, so it's best to be prepared.

Norman Alexander 14th July 2021 07:17 AM

Did they wear the obligatory brown shirts?

Warp12 14th July 2021 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13535673)
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/m...e-porter-event

Just fascists violently crashing a run-of-the-mill liberal political rally. I expect the political use of street violence is only getting started.

It's important to remember that one side cannot unilaterally declare nonviolence. The fascists will attack people whether they are ready to fight back or not, so it's best to be prepared.

Has Maxine Waters weighed in on this, yet? We need her voice of reason to bring peace and unity, here.

SuburbanTurkey 14th July 2021 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13537029)
Has Maxine Waters weighed in on this, yet? We need her voice of reason to bring peace and unity, here.

She's icing her hand from beating Michael Tracey bloody in broad daylight.

SuburbanTurkey 14th July 2021 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13537016)
Did they wear the obligatory brown shirts?

This time around they prefer black and yellow polos.

Neo-brownshirt disruption of political events, including that of nonviolent, non-radical liberals, is going to be part of our political environment for the foreseeable future.

Decent people have an aversion to violence, but it's important to understand that we can't just wish peace into existence when dealing with fascists. An unwillingness to meet force with force will allow the fascists to overcome their lack of true popular support with violent intimidation. The choice is either going to be confrontation or the silencing of dissent.

Proud Boy style street brawling is increasingly becoming "mainstream" in the right wing. Expect these people to disrupt Democratic candidate events and realize that often, police are not going to do their duty to stop illegal right wing violence.

Lurch 14th July 2021 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13537029)
Has Maxine Waters weighed in on this, yet? We need her voice of reason to bring peace and unity, here.

Ah, the good old whataboutism and both sides bad tactic. And the making equivalent of words and action.

If both sides were to share the same zeal for provocation and violence you'd have a point. But with 1/6 and Charlottesville, to name two, there is an evidenced disparity that figuratively slaps one into clear awareness.

Shalamar 14th July 2021 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13537029)
Has Maxine Waters weighed in on this, yet? We need her voice of reason to bring peace and unity, here.

It's only wrong when Democrats/liberals/leftists/progressives do it.

ahhell 14th July 2021 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch (Post 13537128)
Ah, the good old whataboutism and both sides bad tactic. And the making equivalent of words and action.

If both sides were to share the same zeal for provocation and violence you'd have a point. But with 1/6 and Charlottesville, to name two, there is an evidenced disparity that figuratively slaps one into clear awareness.

I suppose the mostly peaceful protests over the last year that only turned violent on a few hundred occasions are of no concern.

I suppose, based on percentages the Right wins the violence off?

Stacyhs 14th July 2021 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 13537529)
I suppose the mostly peaceful protests over the last year that only turned violent on a few hundred occasions are of no concern.

I suppose, based on percentages the Right wins the violence off?

Yeah, they do. The FBI didn't conclude that the greatest threat to the country right now is left-wing domestic terrorism.

Skeptic Ginger 14th July 2021 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 13537529)
I suppose the mostly peaceful protests over the last year that only turned violent on a few hundred occasions are of no concern.

I suppose, based on percentages the Right wins the violence off?

Remind me of the times left wing protestors chose people to be violent to.

I know they've burned and defaced buildings and looted. Some of the looters here in Bellevue WA planned multiple looting sites while police were preoccupied with a protest march. They were not part of the protest by any stretch.

There were a couple shootings at the Seattle park that was occupied by a left wing protest, but that was not a protesting group attacking a group of people with right wing beliefs.

And sometimes cops have to keep groups apart that protest at the same time.

What else? What makes left wing protestors the same as the right wingers who set out to commit violence against people the right wingers have a beef with?

dudalb 14th July 2021 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 13537529)
I suppose the mostly peaceful protests over the last year that only turned violent on a few hundred occasions are of no concern.

I suppose, based on percentages the Right wins the violence off?

I think the rioter and looters during the Police Shooting protests should be arrested and punished;but I think the Capitol Insurrection was much,much, more dangerous to this country. Riots are nothing new;storming the captiol was.

dudalb 14th July 2021 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13537541)
Remind me of the times left wing protestors chose people to be violent to.

I know they've burned and defaced buildings and looted. Some of the looters here in Bellevue WA planned multiple looting sites while police were preoccupied with a protest march.

There were a couple shootings at the Seattle park that was occupied by a left wing protest, but that was not a protesting group attacking a group of people with right wing beliefs.

And sometimes cops have to keep groups apart that protest at the same time.

What else? What makes left wing protestors the same as the right wingers who set out to commit violence against people the right wingers have a beef with?

I suspect alot of the looting and violence during the poliece shooting protest were done by hoodlum who just took advantage of the situation.that was no the same as the Capitol Insurrection.
But I don't like the atempt of some people to excuse and/or justify the looting . That is , frankly, not much better then the apologists for the Capitol insurrection.

Stacyhs 14th July 2021 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13537543)
I think the rioter and looters during the Police Shooting protests should be arrested and punished;but I think the Capitol Insurrection was much,much, more dangerous to this country. Riots are nothing new;storming the captiol was.

Agreed. Rioters and looters should be arrested and prosecuted. It was well established that the majority of the violence/looting was not done by BLM protesters but by gangs and opportunists. There's reason the rioting and looting happened almost exclusively after dark.

dudalb 14th July 2021 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13537540)
Yeah, they do. The FBI didn't conclude that the greatest threat to the country right now is left-wing domestic terrorism.

The right if by far the greatest threat;but that might change if we get some Weathermen/SLA groups going..which I am afraid of. Extremism always feeds Extremism.

Stacyhs 14th July 2021 02:51 PM

I'm beginning to question if it may be a good thing if Trump did run again in 2024. Dems and the smarter, democracy supporting Republicans and Independents came out in droves to vote against him in 2020. We've seen Trump sink even deeper into his mental illness and anti-democratic authoritarianism since last November and I think that same group of voters would be motivated to come out again to prevent him from being elected. A Trump wannabe like DeSantis may not produce as large a motivation to vote on either side. And the number of Trump supporters is not going to grow between now and 2024. Covid may even have killed off thousands of them in close race counties by 2024 since it's mostly his supporters who refuse to get vaccinated.

On the other hand, with all the vote restrictions being passed in Trump Country, this could affect the number of people actually voting against him.

But I'd dearly love to see him defeated again.

Skeptic Ginger 14th July 2021 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13537548)
I suspect alot of the looting and violence during the poliece shooting protest were done by hoodlum who just took advantage of the situation.that was no the same as the Capitol Insurrection.
But I don't like the atempt of some people to excuse and/or justify the looting . That is , frankly, not much better then the apologists for the Capitol insurrection.

Who the hell is doing that? :confused:

There have been protests like the WTO protests a dozen+ years back in Seattle where stores like Starbucks and Nike were specifically looted as a statement against the corporate world.

During last year's protests in this area, the looters were mostly criminals and criminal gangs that purposefully took advantage of the marches. None of the protestors was happy about it or condoned it.

Skeptic Ginger 14th July 2021 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13537551)
The right if by far the greatest threat;but that might change if we get some Weathermen/SLA groups going..which I am afraid of. Extremism always feeds Extremism.

Wow, that's a blast from the past. :p

I think you have to look at the cause in that case, the Weathermen/SLA groups were trying to stop a deadly and needless war.

And the bombing of the ROTC building at the U of WA was supposed to have occurred purposefully when the building was empty. A lone grad student who was there and was killed certainly wasn't the target.

The 1/6 insurrection targeted the police with violent means and other right wing protestors have accosted left wing protestors with the intent to beat the **** out of them.

ahhell 14th July 2021 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13537548)
I suspect alot of the looting and violence during the poliece shooting protest were done by hoodlum who just took advantage of the situation.that was no the same as the Capitol Insurrection.
But I don't like the atempt of some people to excuse and/or justify the looting . That is , frankly, not much better then the apologists for the Capitol insurrection.

I basically agree. I am dismayed regarding the leftish members of this formuns willingness to dismiss and excuse the left's violence though. Are there any right members do something similar?

Lately, I find myself between two sides. The right in the US as mostly(90ish percent) rolled with trump. The left, they don't totally roll with the nuts but they basically pretend they aren't real. Except the anti-racism crowd, they seem to be rolling with that. This is the problem the German conservatives of 1920 had. The NAZIs were going to put lots of people in camps, maybe some of the conservative. The Commies were going to put lots of people in camps and definitely the conservatives.

Granted, that exaggerates the issue. But, I have one side that probably hates me and the other that definitely hates me but I tend to agree with them more....well, except for hating me.

wareyin 14th July 2021 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 13537695)
I basically agree. I am dismayed regarding the leftish members of this formuns willingness to dismiss and excuse the left's violence though. Are there any right members do something similar?

Lately, I find myself between two sides. The right in the US as mostly(90ish percent) rolled with trump. The left, they don't totally roll with the nuts but they basically pretend they aren't real. Except the anti-racism crowd, they seem to be rolling with that. This is the problem the German conservatives of 1920 had. The NAZIs were going to put lots of people in camps, maybe some of the conservative. The Commies were going to put lots of people in camps and definitely the conservatives.

Granted, that exaggerates the issue. But, I have one side that probably hates me and the other that definitely hates me but I tend to agree with them more....well, except for hating me.

Tell me more about how the anti-rascist crowd is the real fascists and going to put people in camps. I love alternate reality stories.

Leftists are the real violent ones, leftists excuse all this left-wing violence...did Mike Pence become President in this timeline? Is the left wing violence more than the nagging to get vaccinated that we have in this timeline? That'd be more interesting at least.

dudalb 14th July 2021 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13537729)
Tell me more about how the anti-rascist crowd is the real fascists and going to put people in camps. I love alternate reality stories.

Leftists are the real violent ones, leftists excuse all this left-wing violence...did Mike Pence become President in this timeline? Is the left wing violence more than the nagging to get vaccinated that we have in this timeline? That'd be more interesting at least.

The right is much worse then the left at the moment.
But that does not mean there is not potential for violence on the left. Look at the Sixties and early Seventies.
But in your opinion the Left is pure and incapable of evil.....

Stacyhs 14th July 2021 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13537761)
The right is much worse then the left at the moment.
But that does not mean there is not potential for violence on the left. Look at the Sixties and early Seventies.
But in your opinion the Left is pure and incapable of evil.....

False equivalence. The 'left' violence in the 60's and 70's was not from mainstream Democrats. They were extremists on the far left fringe and reviled by the majority of Democrats. That is not true of the today's right that is supported by the majority of Republicans and GOP Congress members. Remember, Jan. 6 wasn't an insurrection; they were just peaceful protesters and are the victims of a left wing witch hunt because they were just trying to Stop the Steal.

wareyin 14th July 2021 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13537761)
The right is much worse then the left at the moment.
But that does not mean there is not potential for violence on the left. Look at the Sixties and early Seventies.
But in your opinion the Left is pure and incapable of evil.....

You worry far to much about the radicals on the left from 40 and 50 years ago and far too little about the mainstream right right now.

Nobody is saying the left is pure and incapable of evil, we're just questioning the far right narrative that there's all this invisible left wing violence going on right now.

dudalb 14th July 2021 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13537771)
You worry far to much about the radicals on the left from 40 and 50 years ago and far too little about the mainstream right right now.

Nobody is saying the left is pure and incapable of evil, we're just questioning the far right narrative that there's all this invisible left wing violence going on right now.

If you read my posting history,you should know I worry plenty about the right today.
But I do know that extremism encourages extremism on the other side and it si something we should have a little concern about.

Stacyhs 14th July 2021 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13537774)
If you read my posting history,you should know I worry plenty about the right today.
But I do know that extremism encourages extremism on the other side and it si something we should have a little concern about.

I agree that extremism encourages extremism on the other side. However, in the last 4+ years, can you point to any examples of violent left extremism?

wareyin 14th July 2021 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13537774)
If you read my posting history,you should know I worry plenty about the right today.
But I do know that extremism encourages extremism on the other side and it si something we should have a little concern about.

Ok, we can keep an eye out for any left wing extremism that might turn violent. Personally I think the actual violence from the mainstream right we currently have is a far bigger problem than some proposed potential for violence that shows no indication of coming.

Delphic Oracle 14th July 2021 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13537771)
You worry far to much about the radicals on the left from 40 and 50 years ago and far too little about the mainstream right right now.



Nobody is saying the left is pure and incapable of evil, we're just questioning the far right narrative that there's all this invisible left wing violence going on right now.

That and the minor issue of real repression of civil rights and political participation as opposed to manufactured offenses.

ponderingturtle 15th July 2021 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 13537529)
I suppose the mostly peaceful protests over the last year that only turned violent on a few hundred occasions are of no concern.

I suppose, based on percentages the Right wins the violence off?

Well we can accept that the truly violent ones are the cops who enjoy attacking peaceful protestors. They are truly the worst.


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