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-   -   Trump immigrant family separation policy (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330118)

The Big Dog 20th June 2018 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lobosrul5 (Post 12334052)
So, you don't see the difference between the actions of THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT as directed by THE ATTORNEY GENERAL and PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and some has been actor spouting off on twitter :confused:

Of course I do. You didn't even need the all caps.

Craig B 20th June 2018 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12334009)
Glad to see that Trump has agreed to do the right thing. Doesn't excuse the initial policy change but it at least shows that he will cave to political pressure and do the right thing. Call it saving himself, whatever. At least he's ending the practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12334003)
Really, care to cite them? My earlier posts were supplying information, and virtually all of my posts today have been pointing out the violent threats from the left.

Is your president perhaps a coward who grovels to Korean tyrants, submits to Russian pressure, and changes policies for fear of threats from a resident of a mobile home?
Or perhaps his heroic military service record dispels such slanderous speculations?

Segnosaur 20th June 2018 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSSBB (Post 12334035)
I can see, on these very pages, why politics has become increasingly polarized. If you are One Drop of Conservative or Liberal, by gum your all of that side.

Concrete thinking run amok.

Go back and look at what many of the people here have been saying. Many of the most vocal "(virtually) all republicans are guilty for Trump and his racist policies" are people that actually hold old-style conservative views but have basically left the republican party and Trump-style conservativism behind.

So its much more complex than just "conservative vs. Liberal".

The Big Dog 20th June 2018 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig B (Post 12334059)
Is your president perhaps a coward who grovels to Korean tyrants, submits to Russian pressure, and changes policies for fear of threats from a resident of a mobile home?
Or perhaps his heroic military service record dispels such slanderous speculations?

Now this spectacular post seems to be celebrating the numerous violent threats.

Remember folks, it ain't about the kids, it is about calling Trump a coward.

xjx388 20th June 2018 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 12334046)
While he may not be a "trump cheerleader" LaHood still voted for the republican Tax cut bill. You know, the ones that Trump is bragging about (the one that increases the debt load and will eventually increase the tax rate on lower and middle income Americans.)

I don't think that support for the tax bill implies any kind of support for the family separation policy. One can support policy W, X and Y while abhorring policy Z.

Quote:

While they may be "voting locally", their vote STILL had the side effect of benefitting Trump. Sad that it has to be that way, but there you go.
Many conservatives are sad it had to be that way too.

uke2se 20th June 2018 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12334066)
I don't think that support for the tax bill implies any kind of support for the family separation policy. One can support policy W, X and Y while abhorring policy Z.

Many conservatives are sad it had to be that way too.

Why are you sad about it? You have the power to end it.

Segnosaur 20th June 2018 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSSBB (Post 12334021)
He had a snowballs chance on Venus of winning. Thanks to gerrymandering. I fully knew that going in. My vote was a protest against Bobby Rush. Are you defending Bobby Rush? Is it Democrat or die?

Sadly, in the case where you have a choice of supporting a racist orangutan or not supporting a racist orangutan, then it does have to be "democrat or die".

Talk to me in 2020 or 2024, when Trump is gone and the republicans hopefully have a leader who is not a racist nut-bag. Then perhaps it may be possible to vote republican without knowing that your vote might just be supporting (directly or indirectly) someone who wants to separate children from their parents so they can be housed in concentration camps.

Fudbucker 20th June 2018 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSSBB (Post 12334035)
I can see, on these very pages, why politics has become increasingly polarized. If you are One Drop of Conservative or Liberal, by gum your all of that side.

Concrete thinking run amok.

The problem is that Trump is obviously unfit for President and has been called that by senators from his own party. This child separation policy is evil, and Trump still enjoys 85% support from Republicans. He's the leader of the Republican Party. Steve Schmidt, McCain's campaign manager, just quit the GOP today. The Republican Party has turned into a cult of personality. It's own influential members are saying that.

Anyone who still self-identifies as Republican (not conservative), after this child-separation fiasco, has gone completely off the deep end, for whatever weird reason, and it's perfectly OK (as far as I'm concerned) assuming they are either total idiots or moral cretins. The same for any self-identified Trump supporters, really.

Segnosaur 20th June 2018 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12334066)
I don't think that support for the tax bill implies any kind of support for the family separation policy. One can support policy W, X and Y while abhorring policy Z.

Again, empty rhetoric. You can claim "I abhor policy Z", but if supporting policy W, X and Y also means that Policy Z gets implemented, then you clearly don't really have THAT much abhorrence for policy Z.

You can shrug your shoulders and say "Errr... don't really like it but not a big deal" but you can't say you really dislike the policy to any great degree.
Quote:

While they may be "voting locally", their vote STILL had the side effect of benefitting Trump. Sad that it has to be that way, but there you go.
Many conservatives are sad it had to be that way too.[/quote]
Yet not sad enough to say "I really like my local republican Candidate but supporting him will mean racist policies get enacted so I guess I'll vote Democrat". So they're shrugging their shoulders and saying "Errr... no big deal".

LSSBB 20th June 2018 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 12334071)
Sadly, in the case where you have a choice of supporting a racist orangutan or not supporting a racist orangutan, then it does have to be "democrat or die".

Talk to me in 2020 or 2024, when Trump is gone and the republicans hopefully have a leader who is not a racist nut-bag. Then perhaps it may be possible to vote republican without knowing that your vote might just be supporting (directly or indirectly) someone who wants to separate children from their parents so they can be housed in concentration camps.

Well, I have always voted candidate, not party. Rest assured that the number of Republicans that I would consider as good candidates has been rapidly diminishing. This family separation tragedy is a good litmus test. If only the number of Democrats I consider good candidates were increasing, things might be looking even better - maybe the Democratic Party should start cleaning house too.

NoahFence 20th June 2018 12:46 PM

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=11844

uke2se 20th June 2018 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahFence (Post 12334083)

She should start by keeping them away from her hubby and ol' man Sessions.

Segnosaur 20th June 2018 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12334075)
Steve Schmidt, McCain's campaign manager, just quit the GOP today.

Wow, I took a look at an article about him. He really lays into the Republicans. And its not just Trump that he's targeting but Ryan and McConnel.

From: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/...b05d6c16c96a05
29 years and nine months ago I registered to vote and became a member of The Republican Party which was founded in 1854 to oppose slavery and stand for the dignity of human life. Today I renounce my membership in the Republican Party. It is fully the party of Trump.
...
It is corrupt, indecent and immoral. With the exception of a few Governors like Baker, Hogan and Kasich it is filled with feckless cowards who disgrace and dishonor the legacies of the party’s greatest leaders. This child separation policy is connected to the worst abuses of
...
Humanity in our history. It is connected by the same evil that separated families during slavery and dislocated tribes and broke up Native American families. It is immoral and must be repudiated. Our country is in trouble. Our politics are badly broken. The first step to a
...
Season of renewal in our land is the absolute and utter repudiation of Trump and his vile enablers in the 2018 election by electing Democratic majorities. I do not say this as an advocate of a progressive agenda. I say it as someone who retains belief in DEMOCRACY and decency.
...
On Ronald Reagan’s grave are these words. “ I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.” He would be ashamed of McConnell and Ryan and all the rest while this corrupt government
...
Establishes internment camps for babies. Everyone of these complicit leaders will carry this shame through history. There legacies will be ones of well earned ignominy. They have disgraced their country and brought dishonor to the Party of Lincoln.
...
I have spent much of my life working in GOP politics. I have always believed that both parties were two of the most important institutions to the advancement of human freedom and dignity in the history of the world. Today the GOP has become a danger to our democracy and values.
...
This Independent voter will be aligned with the only party left in America that stands for what is right and decent and remains fidelitous to our Republic, objective truth, the rule of law and our Allies. That party is the Democratic Party.

The Big Dog 20th June 2018 12:55 PM

As part of the Executive order, the President orders the military to provide housing for families being detained, and asking that a consent agreement be modified to enable the detention of children with their families.

The_Animus 20th June 2018 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 12333954)
First of all, if your 'good conscience' manages to suggest Clinton (a flawed but relatively competent candidate) and Trump (a racist orangutan with a string of failed businesses and shady deals) are somehow equivalent then your "good conscience" is a failure. Trump is a racist nut-bag, Clinton was not. Not doing everything you can to stop Trump means that you consider things like the forced separation of children from parents to be less significant than it really is.

Secondly, the U.S. is (for better or worse) a 2 party system. If one of the candidates is REALLY bad (like, for example, a racist orangutan who tries to equate Mexicans with "rapists" and who eventually brings about a situation where children are forcefully separated from their parents) it makes sense to want them stopped. A vote for a 3rd party says "Errr.... racism is no big deal".

Equivalence is your strawman and not my opinion or anyone elses here that I've seen.

I also like how someones vote in Nov 2016 means they think the recent policy of separating children from their parents is insignificant.

Are you out demonstrating in the streets every day? Then I guess you think this issue is less significant than it really is and racism is no big deal.

See how annoying and illogical that rhetoric is?

Craig B 20th June 2018 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12334065)
Now this spectacular post seems to be celebrating the numerous violent threats.

Remember folks, it ain't about the kids, it is about calling Trump a coward.

Nobody doubts that he is courageous enough to tear children from their parents. "Appears" to be celebrating the violent threats. Is that really the best you can do in substantiating your accusations?

Segnosaur 20th June 2018 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Animus (Post 12334095)
Equivalence is your strawman and not my opinion or anyone elses here that I've seen.

People are saying they voted for 3rd parties because they found both Clinton and Trump undesirable. While that doesn't necessarily mean they're EQUALLY undesirable, it does put them at least near the same level.
Quote:

I also like how someones vote in Nov 2016 means they think the recent policy of separating children from their parents is insignificant.
Trump is a racist and a bigot. It was obvious before he began his campaign (charged with discrimination over rental policies), it was obvious during the campaign (Mexicans are rapists") it is obvious after the election (neo-Nazis are fine people). It affected both his overall campaign style ("Build the wall") and his policies (Muslim ban, racial profiling). During the election, anyone who was voting should have known that one of the candidates was racist, and should have known that such racism could lead the country to some unfortunate outcomes. Even if they didn't know the exact details (such as "We're going to separate kids from parents. Whoop whoop.") they should have expected something bad.

So, they knew Trump was a racist, they should have known people (mainly minorities) would likely be harmed (because, you know, racism), yet they still decided to cast their vote for Trump.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to protest all the time, every day, or start a one man vendetta against any and all things republican. But something as simple as "don't give your vote or do something that will specifically enable a racist" seems like pretty much a no-brainer to me.

The Big Dog 20th June 2018 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig B (Post 12334101)
Nobody doubts that he is courageous enough to tear children from their parents. "Appears" to be celebrating the violent threats. Is that really the best you can do in substantiating your accusations?

Sorry, "are' actively celebrating them and calling Trump a coward for changing the policy.

It is about the kids, folks.

logger 20th June 2018 01:21 PM

Well, that’s that!

On to the next thing the left will cry about to raise their dismal numbers.

Captain_Swoop 20th June 2018 01:22 PM

I guess someone will have to run around a and find all the kids they already sold to traffickers and pimps.

Drewbot 20th June 2018 01:30 PM

Now the press will attempt to portray Trump as being weak on immigration.

Trump is now promoting drug smuggling and child trafficking simply because he signed this.

Watch CNN tonight to see.

AnonyMoose 20th June 2018 01:31 PM

I think I've finally figured out the equation (somebody please correct my math if it's wrong):

1) Trump creates a problem
2) Trump blames previous administrations for said problem
3) The crowd goes wild
4) Trump fixes problem

Does that sound about right ?

No wonder these people think he's a magical deity.

He's constantly fixing problems.

uke2se 20th June 2018 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewbot (Post 12334135)
Now the press will attempt to portray Trump as being weak on immigration.

Trump is now promoting drug smuggling and child trafficking simply because he signed this.

Watch CNN tonight to see.

He is weak. Locking up children in concentration camps is beyond weak, actually.

There's also the fact that he capitulated; a massive no-no among his authoritarian base.

dudalb 20th June 2018 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12334075)
The problem is that Trump is obviously unfit for President and has been called that by senators from his own party. This child separation policy is evil, and Trump still enjoys 85% support from Republicans. He's the leader of the Republican Party. Steve Schmidt, McCain's campaign manager, just quit the GOP today. The Republican Party has turned into a cult of personality. It's own influential members are saying that.

Anyone who still self-identifies as Republican (not conservative), after this child-separation fiasco, has gone completely off the deep end, for whatever weird reason, and it's perfectly OK (as far as I'm concerned) assuming they are either total idiots or moral cretins. The same for any self-identified Trump supporters, really.

It might take a few years, but IMHO the GOP has signed it's death warrant as a major party with it's total surrender to Trump. Only a matter of time until a new party based on traditional conservative principals begins to form. The GOP arose because of the death of the Whigs in the 1850's; the GOP is following in the footsteps of the Whigs.

Drewbot 20th June 2018 01:34 PM

This will open the door for him to sign an executive order to build the wall, in the name of preventing families from coming over at non-ports-of-entry, and having to be separated.

He will look like a genius again.

Captain_Swoop 20th June 2018 01:35 PM

"The president added that the move will be compassionate but will also be 'equally tough if not tougher.'"

He's admitting that it's an escalation. He's getting the army to build proper camps. It's not a capitulation it was a tactical withdrawal to stronger ground.

dudalb 20th June 2018 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewbot (Post 12334135)
Now the press will attempt to portray Trump as being weak on immigration.

Trump is now promoting drug smuggling and child trafficking simply because he signed this.

Watch CNN tonight to see.

I give you the mentality of the Trump supporter.....


Notice how he does not mention how any intelligent and compassionate politican would never have adapted a child separation policy anyway.
But keeping drinking the kool aid an depending on Fox News and Briebart for all your information.....

uke2se 20th June 2018 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewbot (Post 12334143)
This will open the door for him to sign an executive order to build the wall, in the name of preventing families from coming over at non-ports-of-entry, and having to be separated.

He will look like a genius again.

If he plans to pay for it himself, he can sign whatever he wants. Otherwise he's SOL on that front.

Drewbot 20th June 2018 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 12334145)
"The president added that the move will be compassionate but will also be 'equally tough if not tougher.'"

He's admitting that it's an escalation. He's getting the army to build proper camps. It's not a capitulation it was a tactical withdrawal to stronger ground.

Correct, his system based style is to never apologize or capitulate, he will use this as leverage to get something bigger done, probably the wall.

dudalb 20th June 2018 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewbot (Post 12334143)
This will open the door for him to sign an executive order to build the wall, in the name of preventing families from coming over at non-ports-of-entry, and having to be separated.

He will look like a genius again.

GOd, I hope you are being sarcastic.

uke2se 20th June 2018 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12334149)
GOd, I hope you are being sarcastic.

No, he's a Trump supporter.

dudalb 20th June 2018 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewbot (Post 12334148)
Correct, his system based style is to never apologize or capitulate, he will use this as leverage to get something bigger done, probably the wall.

The fact you approve ot this never apoligizne or capitulate policy just shows what a supporter of authoritarian rule you are.
If the US ceases to be a democracy, attitudes like this are to blame.
ANd that you think that bullies are people to be admired.

Joecool 20th June 2018 01:41 PM

If a US citizen went into a bank and robbed it, and got caught while trying to drive away and by chance had his/her kids in the car, the kids would be separated from the parent who got arrested and put in jail.

Child protective services would likely put the child into a relative's care or foster care. The child(ren) would not be held in jail with the parent.

uke2se 20th June 2018 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joecool (Post 12334154)
If a US citizen went into a bank and robbed it, and got caught while trying to drive away and by chance had his/her kids in the car, the kids would be separated from the parent who got arrested and put in jail.

Child protective services would likely put the child into a relative's care or foster care. The child(ren) would not be held in jail with the parent.

What's your point?

dudalb 20th June 2018 01:44 PM

It has to be said:
The kind of mentality we are seeing from the Trump supporters is exactly the mentality that allowes dictators to come to power.

The Big Dog 20th June 2018 01:47 PM



It has to be said:
The kind of mentality we are seeing from the Trump opponents is exactly the mentality that allows dictators to come to power.

Minoosh 20th June 2018 01:48 PM

I have zero tolerance for "zero tolerance" ... oh, wait.

But seriously, I think this second-guessing of law enforcement officers in the field is to blame for a lot of problems. It's like saying everyone will be prosecuted for not using their turn signals, even if the DUI squad has to be disbanded in the process. Yes, it will deter people from failing to signal, but is that really the best use of resources?

Minoosh 20th June 2018 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12334090)
As part of the Executive order, the President orders the military to provide housing for families being detained, and asking that a consent agreement be modified to enable the detention of children with their families.

The military is more humane than the Trump administration.

uke2se 20th June 2018 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 12334180)
The military is more humane than the Trump administration.

There's also the Flores settlement that says that children must be released after no more than 20 days. Sorry trumpsters, the army can't run your concentration camps under the law.

LSSBB 20th June 2018 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 12334180)
The military is more humane than the Trump administration.

Yeah, they were pretty good running the POW camps in WWII.

These are POW camps, right?

Or is Trump thinking to ship them off to Gitmo and house them with Al Qaeda and Taliban leftovers?


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