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-   -   Trump immigrant family separation policy (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330118)

The Big Dog 18th June 2018 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwguinn (Post 12331689)
I'll have to check the source again, but I read one article (from CNN I believe) where the interviewed individual statd that as soon as they are separated from their parent(s), they are reclassified as "Unacompanied children".
Self-eating watermelon, indeed

The claim was that 5 out of 6 presented to the border with unrelated adults.

BobTheCoward 18th June 2018 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12331699)
The claim was that 5 out of 6 presented to the border with unrelated adults.

We still need a cite.

ServiceSoon 18th June 2018 06:05 PM

The claim I heard on NPR was that there has been a substantial increase in attempted illegal border crossings and claims of asylum with children. In fact, an industry has arose in other countries to assist those to take advantage of these laws. The increase in children present in these incidences can easily be attributed to the softer, humane policies imposed only when children are present. The purpose of the Trump policy is to deter using children as bargaining chips to gain entry into the US.

SOURCE

phiwum 18th June 2018 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12331567)
Moral of the story: Don't try to smuggle your family across the border.

You know what families don't get separated? The ones immigrating legally.

But some have been told they can't enter and claim asylum, because we're just too busy for that.

It used to be that asylum seekers would be recognized even if they crossed illegally. Ain't so any more. Is that due to Democrats? Or the administration?

BobTheCoward 18th June 2018 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServiceSoon (Post 12331707)
The claim I heard on NPR was that there has been a substantial increase in attempted illegal border crossings and claims of asylum with children. In fact, an industry has arose in other countries to assist those to take advantage of these laws. The increase in children present in these incidences can easily be attributed to the softer, humane policies imposed only when children are present. The purpose of the Trump policy is to deter using children as bargaining chips to gain entry into the US.

And it is dumb.

sylvan8798 18th June 2018 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12331646)
First and foremost, the parents who committed themselves and their children to this process.

Were the parents given a choice when they were detained? "Go back this minute and we'll pretend we didn't see you here. If you stay we will take your children from you and you might never see them again."

That some parents would opt for the latter doesn't make it okay.

phiwum 18th June 2018 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregthehammer (Post 12331618)
In an ideal world, yes, all imigration would be legal. However, we have to deal with the messy reality that families are crossing our borders illegally. So what do we do? I'd prefer to show a bit of compassion, and at least keep these family units together, regardless if they are ultimately sent back or are allowed to stay. To separate these kids from their parents strikes me as sadistic.

Well said.

NoahFence 18th June 2018 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12331644)
The statue of liberty is no more binding than the pledge of allegiance. Try again.

it's a statement on who we were.

Now that you people have made it clear that brown immigration is bad immigration I think you should remove the statue you find offensive.

Norman Alexander 18th June 2018 06:43 PM

Quick question: Have any of the current US administration or Border Force actually told these "illegal immigrants" BEFORE they crossed that (a) their action was illegal, and (b) they will lose their children? Any fore-warning? Do they know these people don't have cable tuned to Fox News or even get newspapers?

Because if they have not, these people are not being deterred by these developments in the slightest because they simply do not know this is happening. They are walking over a cliff in the dark they don't know is there.

If people-smugglers and money are involved, odds are VERY high they won't say a damn thing to their "clients", or try to hush it up if they do hear rumours. They don't give a rats if the kids get separated or not, as long as they get their cash.

Meanwhile, illegal workers, those who are trying to work for a living under the radar in the USA, will not be bringing children. They want to avoid all this fuss and just melt into the background. So bringing children is now the worst way to attract attention.

And what about the honest-to-goodness refugees? When they are on the trek from Central America, they won't even have immigration papers let alone TV with Fox News bleating their Trumpian bulletins. So they present themselves for help at the US border...and get the full Sophie's Choice treatment. Nice...

NoahFence 18th June 2018 06:47 PM

you mean they don't all have Obamaphones while treking through the desert?

BobTheCoward 18th June 2018 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12331731)
Quick question: Have any of the current US administration or Border Force actually told these "illegal immigrants" BEFORE they crossed that (a) their action was illegal, and (b) they will lose their children? Any fore-warning? Do they know these people don't have cable tuned to Fox News or even get newspapers?

Because if they have not, these people are not being deterred by these developments in the slightest because they simply do not know this is happening. They are walking over a cliff in the dark they don't know is there.

If people-smugglers and money are involved, odds are VERY high they won't say a damn thing to their "clients", or try to hush it up if they do hear rumours. They don't give a rats if the kids get separated or not, as long as they get their cash.

Meanwhile, illegal workers, those who are trying to work for a living under the radar in the USA, will not be bringing children. They want to avoid all this fuss and just melt into the background. So bringing children is now the worst way to attract attention.

And what about the honest-to-goodness refugees? When they are on the trek from Central America, they won't even have immigration papers let alone TV with Fox News bleating their Trumpian bulletins. So they present themselves for help at the US border...and get the full Sophie's Choice treatment. Nice...

It is a connected world.

Regnad Kcin 18th June 2018 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12331567)
Moral of the story: Don't try to smuggle your family across the border.

You know what families don't get separated? The ones immigrating legally.

Not the word Id recommend.

Foolmewunz 18th June 2018 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12331646)
First and foremost, the parents who committed themselves and their children to this process.

How convenient your morality is!

If Trump's mommy made him eat oatmeal three meals a day, that would be abuse. If my mom did because my old man walked out on us and she had three kids to feed, it was not; it was survival.

Norman Alexander 18th June 2018 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahFence (Post 12331734)
you mean they don't all have Obamaphones while treking through the desert?

Never heard of that until now, but Google helps.

The Trumpsters would seem to think they do. But their world stops at Brownsville.

Norman Alexander 18th June 2018 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 12331735)
It is a connected world.

And it's a pity the Trumpsters aren't involved in it.

Regnad Kcin 18th June 2018 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12331646)
First and foremost, the parents who committed themselves and their children to this process.

She made me hit her.

Cain 18th June 2018 07:17 PM

In the other thread, someone suggested a GREAT alternative to family separation: Each criminal alien unlawfully entering should (humanely) have one of their feet amputated. Have fun trying to re-enter.

Skeptic Ginger 18th June 2018 07:19 PM

Finally getting some air time that none of these people showing up at ports of entry are being allowed onto US territory and none that do get across the line are being allowed to be processed. They are lined up by the entry if they get past the guards keeping them off US soil.

Also Lawrence O'Donnell made a plea to Melanie to go comfort one crying child as one immigrant to another. He also pointed out Melanie never did give that press conference. We all know she worked while only having a tourist visa.

Minoosh 18th June 2018 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12331647)
Why? Social Services separates children from their parents for lesser crimes all the time.

Lesser crimes than what is already a misdemeanor, first offense?

Minoosh 18th June 2018 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12331637)
10k out of the 12k children in detention came here with unrelated adults (so 5 out 6 come with human traffickers)

Are you sure those aren't the 10K who came unaccompanied by an adult?

Minoosh 18th June 2018 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12331741)
The Trumpsters would seem to think they do. But their world stops at Brownsville.

Their world probably stops well north of Brownsville. It's 65 percent Democrat.

Skeptic Ginger 18th June 2018 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 12331834)
Their world probably stops well north of Brownsville. It's 65 percent Democrat.

What 65% are you talking about? :confused:

Minoosh 18th June 2018 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12331859)
What 65% are you talking about? :confused:

Voter registration is 65 percent Democratic in Brownsville.

Someone had made a reference to Trumpeters' world stopping at Brownsville. (I doubt if it extends that far south.)

Minoosh 18th June 2018 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServiceSoon (Post 12331707)
The claim I heard on NPR was that there has been a substantial increase in attempted illegal border crossings and claims of asylum with children. In fact, an industry has arose in other countries to assist those to take advantage of these laws. The increase in children present in these incidences can easily be attributed to the softer, humane policies imposed only when children are present. The purpose of the Trump policy is to deter using children as bargaining chips to gain entry into the US.

IMO, the purpose is to give Trump a bargaining chip for trying to get Wall funding. Which he kept saying Mexico would pay for :confused:

Thanks for the link, I will read it.

ETA: That link does not support what you've posted here.

ETA2: And the administration seemed to be *hiding* it somewhat which does not support the deterrence theory. And who the hell thinks it's appropriate to use kids as bargaining chips?

BobTheCoward 18th June 2018 10:49 PM

Part of maturity is accepting that the world will throw inequities at you. But empathy and understanding is supposed to lead us to greater discipline and humanity. Yes, doing the right thing is not a deterrent. The solution isn't to do the wrong thing like what is threatening you.

There was a time in my life where I thought the solution was to be hard. That solving my problems was to strip myself of my empathy and inhibition. I was teenager. To see that thinking in adults and elders is pitiful.

The Great Zaganza 18th June 2018 10:51 PM

The only credible deterrent would be to incarcerate and torture everyone who doesn't come with a valid visa to the border - or just shoot them on the spot and put their heads on spikes.

Foolmewunz 18th June 2018 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 12331887)
The only credible deterrent would be to incarcerate and torture everyone who doesn't come with a valid visa to the border - or just shoot them on the spot and put their heads on spikes.

I think you're ignoring the fact that if they don't cross into the US and we keep 'em on the other side of the border, this falls under the purview of the CIA, not Homeland Security, DoJ, FBI.

And we all know what our thousand-points-of-light caring conservatives think about the rights of non-US citizens not on US soil! Our new CIA director would probably be willing to set up serial waterboarding. Those kids probably have some information we could use.

Molinaro 18th June 2018 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12331586)
Good thing no nation owes foreigners a port of entry.

Except for the 148 countries who signed and ratified the 1951 Refugee Convention and/or 1961 Protocol.

rdwight 18th June 2018 11:38 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgAatHsWsAA4FkP.jpg

What do people think of Ted Cruz's outlined bill proposal above? How do you feel it compares to the Feinstein bill being proposed?

The Don 18th June 2018 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwight (Post 12331912)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgAatHsWsAA4FkP.jpg

What do people think of Ted Cruz's outlined bill proposal above? How do you feel it compares to the Feinstein bill being proposed?

A couple of concerns spring immediately to mind:

Those judges will be appointed by the Trump Administration. The idea that they will be in any way impartial is laughable. It's authoritarianism 101, establish a series of kangaroo courts to apply your will while attempting to maintain a veneer of propriety.

Putting an arbitrary deadline on the processing of asylum claims will almost certainly result in decisions being rushed, particularly in the most critical of cases. Given that half of the judges will be recently appointed Trump Administration lackeys, it's removing the option of asylum altogether.

Squeegee Beckenheim 19th June 2018 01:16 AM

The new tack appears to be to say that the concentration camps are essentially summer camps.

Darat 19th June 2018 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12331527)

August 1, 2011 Issue

The Don 19th June 2018 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 12331949)
The new tack appears to be to say that the concentration camps are essentially summer camps.

Newspeak all over again :(

Squeegee Beckenheim 19th June 2018 01:31 AM

https://i.imgur.com/2qhEVJ6.jpg

Darat 19th June 2018 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 12331949)
The new tack appears to be to say that the concentration camps are essentially summer camps.

Theresienstadt

The Don 19th June 2018 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 12331956)

How is this even slightly surprising ?

The Trump Administration has worked hard to portray all Hispanics as dangerous gang-members and drug dealers and so those who are coming across the border (allegedly) illegally must be the most dangerous people in the world. This is necessary to protect the US because the DEMS have refused to allow Donald Trump to build his Mexico-funded wall.......:rolleyes:

Squeegee Beckenheim 19th June 2018 02:06 AM

The UN's top human rights official condemns the policy of separating families, calling it abuse

Squeegee Beckenheim 19th June 2018 02:08 AM

A leading US Catholic cardinal condemns the policy of separating families, calling it un-Biblical and un-American

Squeegee Beckenheim 19th June 2018 02:13 AM

https://twitter.com/brianstelter/sta...83701708906498

Quote:

No, these aren't cages, @SteveDoocy says. The authorities simply "built walls out of chain-link fences." Yes, that's a real quote from Fox just now.

Squeegee Beckenheim 19th June 2018 02:15 AM

A top official at the Department of Health and Human Services says that they are on track to have 30,000 children in custody by the end of August


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