International Skeptics Forum

International Skeptics Forum (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumindex.php)
-   Social Issues & Current Events (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=82)
-   -   What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners'? (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324594)

qayak 23rd July 2018 05:47 PM

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...viously-known/


Quote:

And, because we had previously shown that nearly one million incidents of sexual victimization happen in our nation’s prisons and jails each year, we knew that no analysis of sexual victimization in the U.S. would be complete without a look at sexual abuse happening behind bars. We found that, contrary to assumptions, the biggest threat to women serving time does not come from male corrections staff. Instead, female victims are more than three times as likely to experience sexual abuse by other women inmates than by male staff.

Also surprisingly, women inmates are more likely to be abused by other inmates than are male inmates, disrupting the long held view that sexual violence in prison is mainly about men assaulting men. In juvenile corrections facilities, female staff are also a much more significant threat than male staff; more than nine in ten juveniles who reported staff sexual victimization were abused by a woman
.

Roboramma 23rd July 2018 06:54 PM

Thanks very interesting and not what I would have guessed. Thanks for posting it qayak.

AlaskaBushPilot 26th July 2018 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roboramma (Post 12372016)
Thanks very interesting and not what I would have guessed. Thanks for posting it qayak.

Ditto for the thanks, and it is not surprising given the data on domestic violence now that I think about it.

AlaskaBushPilot 27th July 2018 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12362448)

And this is the point that I think that all the advocates of coerced sex miss with their pseudo-Darwinian arguments: Nature actually made sex enjoyable for both parties! So if you want to experience the pleasure of having sex, all you need to do is find somebody you would like to have it with who would also like to have it with you.

This is just calling people stupid. "All you need to do".

Go ahead and explain why there are millions of people who would like to have sex but can't find someone to have it willingly with them.

Most forego sex with another person and masturbate to my likeness, both male and female.

Gary Ridgeway, Ted Bundy, etc: a lot of the greats had relationships or were married and went about raping/killing dozens of people while they carried on what their partner believed to be a normal loving relationship.

Sabrina has given lots of material on various motivations for rape, there's plenty of variety.

dann really, you have such a puerile assertion here, the very existence of rape contradicts it.

isissxn 27th July 2018 11:28 AM

Delete. Maybe I misunderstood. Idc

calebprime 27th July 2018 11:32 AM

...

Ron_Tomkins 30th July 2018 07:30 AM

So Dann, do you have a basic idea of what you would like the Grand Unifying Theory of what Makes People Want to Have Sex with Unwilling Partners to look like? If you give us a rough schematic idea, we can probably start constructing an answer that would satisfy you (That's what she said).

isissxn 31st July 2018 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12378416)
So Dann, do you have a basic idea of what you would like the Grand Unifying Theory of what Makes People Want to Have Sex with Unwilling Partners to look like? If you give us a rough schematic idea, we can probably start constructing an answer that would satisfy you (That's what she said).

I think the answer is supposed to be one of the below:

What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners?'

a.) Omg, I can't understand it either! It's beyond understanding, terrible.

b.) They don't actually enjoy it - enjoying it is impossible, something else is driving them.

c.) They are just Complete Monsters, but trying to analyze just what that means makes you an advocate of forced sex and a poopyhead!

I've narrowed it down to these possibilities by process of elimination.

AlaskaBushPilot 31st July 2018 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isissxn (Post 12379864)
I think the answer is supposed to be one of the below:

What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners?'

a.) Omg, I can't understand it either! It's beyond understanding, terrible.

b.) They don't actually enjoy it - enjoying it is impossible, something else is driving them.

c.) They are just Complete Monsters, but trying to analyze just what that means makes you an advocate of forced sex and a poopyhead!

I've narrowed it down to these possibilities by process of elimination.

Well, yes - it is incoherent. So the fascination becomes what is the poster doing. No accusation of nefarious intent here - but curiousity about what explaines the incoherency.

I accept other people work differently from me. The evidence is overwhelming.

I have a morbid fascination with Serial Killers. Although my favorite is not considered one because he was a mob hit man. Kuklinsky. But he didn't rape victims. He was an assassin. And I understand exactly what created him. He doesn't feel one way or the other about his victims, it neither thrills him nor bothers him. It's the money.

But a lot of the greats (sarcasm) were rapists. Cannibals. Sadists.

If you have difficulty "understanding" then look at people like Leonard Lake and Charles Ng. The Miranda Project: Lake wrote a book about their intentions, so there's no mistaking the horror.

and there are one-off rapists who got drunk with a woman and went too far. You have sex with barnyard animals going on, and it's been going on for thousands of years. Everything from A to Z.

The fact one does not rape barn animals should not prohibit one from acknowledging people who do are wired differently. It's self-evident to me.

Ron_Tomkins 1st August 2018 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isissxn (Post 12379864)
I think the answer is supposed to be one of the below:

What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners?'

a.) Omg, I can't understand it either! It's beyond understanding, terrible.

b.) They don't actually enjoy it - enjoying it is impossible, something else is driving them.

c.) They are just Complete Monsters, but trying to analyze just what that means makes you an advocate of forced sex and a poopyhead!

I've narrowed it down to these possibilities by process of elimination.

Actually, I always got the feeling that this whole thread is Dann's way of saying to the world "Look! I'm so normal that I can't conceive at all how someone would do something like that in any circumstance. Can you guys help me? I really wanna try to figure it out, but me being so normal, it seems impossible to do. Maybe you happen to know a sick person who can try to relate to us why they are so sick?"

calebprime 1st August 2018 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12380492)
Actually, I always got the feeling that this whole thread is Dann's way of saying to the world "Look! I'm so normal that I can't conceive at all how someone would do something like that in any circumstance. Can you guys help me? I really wanna try to figure it out, but me being so normal, it seems impossible to do. Maybe you happen to know a sick person who can try to relate to us why they are so sick?"

Agreed -- it's seemed that way to me too.

JoeMorgue 1st August 2018 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12380492)
Actually, I always got the feeling that this whole thread is Dann's way of saying to the world "Look! I'm so normal that I can't conceive at all how someone would do something like that in any circumstance. Can you guys help me? I really wanna try to figure it out, but me being so normal, it seems impossible to do. Maybe you happen to know a sick person who can try to relate to us why they are so sick?"

Bingo.

He seemed far more interested in finding some "sicko" to focus his rage/superiority on then any intellectually or emotionally honest answers to his question.

xjx388 1st August 2018 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isissxn (Post 12379864)
I think the answer is supposed to be one of the below:

What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners?'

a.) Omg, I can't understand it either! It's beyond understanding, terrible.

b.) They don't actually enjoy it - enjoying it is impossible, something else is driving them.

c.) They are just Complete Monsters, but trying to analyze just what that means makes you an advocate of forced sex and a poopyhead!

I've narrowed it down to these possibilities by process of elimination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot (Post 12379900)
Well, yes - it is incoherent. So the fascination becomes what is the poster doing. No accusation of nefarious intent here - but curiousity about what explaines the incoherency.

I accept other people work differently from me. The evidence is overwhelming.

I have a morbid fascination with Serial Killers. Although my favorite is not considered one because he was a mob hit man. Kuklinsky. But he didn't rape victims. He was an assassin. And I understand exactly what created him. He doesn't feel one way or the other about his victims, it neither thrills him nor bothers him. It's the money.

But a lot of the greats (sarcasm) were rapists. Cannibals. Sadists.

If you have difficulty "understanding" then look at people like Leonard Lake and Charles Ng. The Miranda Project: Lake wrote a book about their intentions, so there's no mistaking the horror.

and there are one-off rapists who got drunk with a woman and went too far. You have sex with barnyard animals going on, and it's been going on for thousands of years. Everything from A to Z.

The fact one does not rape barn animals should not prohibit one from acknowledging people who do are wired differently. It's self-evident to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12380492)
Actually, I always got the feeling that this whole thread is Dann's way of saying to the world "Look! I'm so normal that I can't conceive at all how someone would do something like that in any circumstance. Can you guys help me? I really wanna try to figure it out, but me being so normal, it seems impossible to do. Maybe you happen to know a sick person who can try to relate to us why they are so sick?"

What I don't understand is the animosity in Dann's posts. None of us here, including him, are experts in human psychology as far as I know. We don't know the real answer (do experts even know?), but we are making some thoughtful attempts to address the question as best we can. But it seems everything we say is met with derision and dismissal. No fun.

theprestige 1st August 2018 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12380905)
What I don't understand is the animosity in Dann's posts. None of us here, including him, are experts in human psychology as far as I know. We don't know the real answer (do experts even know?), but we are making some thoughtful attempts to address the question as best we can. But it seems everything we say is met with derision and dismissal. No fun.

What makes someone want to have an argument with an unwilling partner?

d4m10n 1st August 2018 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381033)
What makes someone want to have an argument with an unwilling partner?

Natural selection.

Ladies love white knights.

theprestige 1st August 2018 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12381144)
Natural selection.

Ladies love white knights.

That's stupid. Natural selection is an excuse, not an explanation.

d4m10n 1st August 2018 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381148)
That's stupid. Natural selection is an excuse, not an explanation.

Please go back and reread your Darwin.

theprestige 1st August 2018 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12381173)
Please go back and reread your Darwin.

That's stupid. Darwin doesn't actually explain anything. You're trying to distract from the reality that you can't explain it.

d4m10n 1st August 2018 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381178)
That's stupid. Darwin doesn't actually explain anything. You're trying to distract from the reality that you can't explain it.

Natural selection explains why biological creatures behave in adaptive ways.

10th grade, yo.

theprestige 1st August 2018 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12381189)
Natural selection explains why biological creatures behave in adaptive ways.

10th grade, yo.

That's stupid. 10th grade biology is an excuse, not an explanation. Why can't anyone answer my question?

Thermal 1st August 2018 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381196)
That's stupid. 10th grade biology is an excuse, not an explanation. Why can't anyone answer my question?

Assertion of power?

theprestige 1st August 2018 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thermal (Post 12381214)
Assertion of power?

That's stupid. Assertion of power is just an excuse. Why do some people want to assert power in the first place?

Thermal 1st August 2018 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381235)
That's stupid. Assertion of power is just an excuse. Why do some people want to assert power in the first place?

Powerful stupidity?

xjx388 1st August 2018 07:40 PM

Lol, I think theorestige has summed up this thread quite well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Roboramma 2nd August 2018 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12381256)
Lol, I think theorestige has summed up this thread quite well.

+1

Sabrina 2nd August 2018 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12380905)
What I don't understand is the animosity in Dann's posts. None of us here, including him, are experts in human psychology as far as I know. We don't know the real answer (do experts even know?), but we are making some thoughtful attempts to address the question as best we can. But it seems everything we say is met with derision and dismissal. No fun.

I have a bachelor's degree in psychology, but as that was granted nearly seventeen years ago now and I moved on to work in an entirely different line of employment (although I suppose one could argue there's a slight level of psychology applicable in analysis), I would very much hesitate to claim any miniscule level of expertise in the subject.

I'm with xjx388 and Roboramma on this one; theprestige pretty much summed up the thread.

theprestige 3rd August 2018 03:34 PM

That's stu- I mean, thanks, everyone. I'm honored that you would appreciate my technique. Shall we see if dann has anything to add?

d4m10n 3rd August 2018 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381196)
That's stupid. 10th grade biology is an excuse, not an explanation. Why can't anyone answer my question?

Which question?

Mycroft 4th August 2018 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12383556)
Which question?

I think he was roll-playing as Dann.

Seismosaurus 4th August 2018 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12362448)
So if you want to experience the pleasure of having sex, all you need to do is find somebody you would like to have it with who would also like to have it with you.

You know, there are people in the world who find that is beyond their skill set.

theprestige 4th August 2018 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mycroft (Post 12384074)
I think he was roll-playing as Dann.

I think damion was just trying to ruin the joke.

Dr. Keith 6th August 2018 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12383502)
That's stu- I mean, thanks, everyone. I'm honored that you would appreciate my technique. Shall we see if dann has anything to add?

Well done, to both you and d4m10n.

d4m10n 6th August 2018 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith (Post 12385916)
Well done, to both you and d4m10n.

This thread is still happening? I thought Susan Brownmiller nailed it down years ago.

https://twitter.com/untamableshrews/...02229340819457

dann 4th November 2018 02:50 AM

Norwegian peer reviewed research. From the abstract:

Quote:

Results: Of the 1500 questionnaires sent out, 527 responses were received. A total of 480 had lived with the partner and were included in the study, and 5.8 per cent of these reported sexual coercion by the partner. Sexual coercion is associated with both physical and psychological violence as well as actions by the partner that make it difficult for the woman to stay in paid employment. There is a clear correlation between increasing psychological violence and sexual coercion. The more often a woman is subjected to various acts of dominance and isolation, or emotional and verbal abuse, the more sexual coercion she will experience.
Sexual coercion in marriage or cohabitating relationships is linked to other types of intimate partner violence (Sykepleien.no, June 26/28, 2018)

Ron_Tomkins 5th November 2018 10:24 AM

Any advances on finding the Universal Unifying Theory of why some people like to engage in sex with unwilling partners?
The psychology boards worldwide would surely appreciate that information.

dann 6th November 2018 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12491529)
Any advances on finding the Universal Unifying Theory of why some people like to engage in sex with unwilling partners?
The psychology boards worldwide would surely appreciate that information.

Then you should go talk to them!
Any advances on finding anything other than your tired old strawman?!

d4m10n 7th November 2018 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12491529)
Any advances on finding the Universal Unifying Theory of why some people like to engage in sex with unwilling partners?
The psychology boards worldwide would surely appreciate that information.

I'm still waiting on Dr. Shemer to weigh in.

Senex 7th November 2018 09:35 AM

A sex addiction counselor explains the secret to ending these types of threads.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

dann 17th July 2019 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12104718)
Not all rape is explained by Anti-Social Personality Disorder. This means that there has to be some rape perpetrated by men who are situationally callous.


For some reason, it was extremely important xjx388 to allege of a certain subgroup of rapists for whom he coined the phrase "situationally callous.

A new article in The Atlantic has this to say about "the great majority of rapists":

Quote:

The Case Western research also showed that the great majority of rapists are generalists, or “one-man crime waves.” “They will steal your car, they will steal your watch, and they will steal sex, so to speak, if they can get away with it,” says Neil Malamuth, a psychologist at UCLA. “They are antisocial folks who will commit all sorts of antisocial behavior, including but not limited to sexual aggression.” And eventually, experts say, generalists slip up and get caught.
(…)
“These are not the Napoleons of crime,” Tim McGinty told me. He paused, reflecting on those 7,000 rape kits sitting in storage in Cleveland while the perpetrators were free on the streets. “They’re morons. We were letting morons beat us.”
An Epidemic of Disbelief – What new research reveals about sexual predators, and why police fail to catch them (The Atlantic, August 2019 Issue)

For most of you, the article is probably tl;dr, but I can recommend it to those of you who are also interested in the second half, "why police fail to catch them".

dann 17th July 2019 04:33 AM

I guess that it won't be difficult to anticipate theprestige's comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381148)
That's stupid. Natural selection is an excuse, not an explanation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381178)
That's stupid. Darwin doesn't actually explain anything. You're trying to distract from the reality that you can't explain it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381235)
That's stupid. Assertion of power is just an excuse. Why do some people want to assert power in the first place?

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12383502)
That's stu- I mean, thanks, everyone. I'm honored that you would appreciate my technique. Shall we see if dann has anything to add?


Yes, I do have something to add. More research about rapists, as you can see in post 359.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:11 AM.

Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2015-19, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.