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-   -   Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And Thereís Nothing Funny (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324808)

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 08:36 AM

Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And Thereís Nothing Funny
 
http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leean...or-al-franken/

...

Quote:

Iím still angry at what Al Franken did to me.

Every time I hear his voice or see his face, I am angry. I am angry that I did his stupid skit for the rest of that tour. I am angry that I didnít call him out in front of everyone when I had the microphone in my hand every night after that. I wanted to. But I didnít want to rock the boat. I was there to entertain the troops and make sure they forgot about where they were for a few hours. Someday, I thought to myself, I would tell my story.

That day is now.

Senator Franken, you wrote the script. But thereís nothing funny about sexual assault.

You wrote the scene that would include you kissing me and then relentlessly badgered me into Ďrehearsingí the kiss with you backstage when we were alone.

You knew exactly what you were doing. You forcibly kissed me without my consent, grabbed my breasts while I was sleeping and had someone take a photo of you doing it, knowing I would see it later, and be ashamed.

While debating whether or not to go public, I even thought to myself, so much worse has happened to so many others, maybe my story isnít worth telling? But my story is worth telling.

Not just because 2017 is not 2006, or because I am much more secure in my career now than I was then, and not because Iím still angry.

Iím telling my story because there may be others.
...

Time to start expelling anyone who has any such events in their past?

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078689)
http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leean...or-al-franken/

...



...

Time to start expelling anyone who has any such events in their past?

Maybe. You need to define the hilited phrase better.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 08:44 AM

It was a skit?

I'll wait for more assertions to come in. He's been around a long time, if it's a pattern there'll be more. Given he's worked to expose abusers like O'Reilly and abusive situations like the Saipan sweatshops, this is another person that the accusation seems out of character for the accused.

Belz... 16th November 2017 08:46 AM

Ok who hasn't been accused of sexual impropriety, at this point?

Mike! 16th November 2017 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12078695)
It was a skit?

I'll wait for more assertions to come in. He's been around a long time, if it's a pattern there'll be more. Given he's worked to expose abusers like O'Reilly and abusive situations like the Saipan sweatshops, this is another person that the accusation seems out of character for the accused.

Did you see the picture?

http://images.tritondigitalcms.com/6...rplane-pic.jpg

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078691)
Maybe. You need to define the hilited phrase better.

Sexual harassment and sexual assault, of course.

Expelling Moore for his actions will definitely open a can of worms among politicians, imo.

It will definitely empower more victims to come forward, I think.

We've already had reports of how sleazy politicians have been.

Hopefully we can clean up Congress and remove everyone on the "creep list".

Belz... 16th November 2017 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078705)
Sexual harassment and sexual assault, of course.

Expelling Moore for his actions will definitely open a can of worms among politicians, imo.

It will definitely empower more victims to come forward, I think.

We've already had reports of how sleazy politicians have been.

Hopefully we can clean up Congress and remove everyone on the "creep list".

Also hopefully, it won't invite false accusations at the same time.

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12078709)
Also hopefully, it won't invite false accusations at the same time.

Oh, we'll get some of those too.

Darat 16th November 2017 08:57 AM

If he forced himself on her as described then yes it is assault, but I could see how that situation could arise from a miscommunication.

The photograph, I would say it is all in the context, what was the relationship like between them or the perceived relationship like and so on.

(By the way it looks to me as if one hand is not touching her - the other hand appearing to touch could also be an effect of the foreshortening).

ponderingturtle 16th November 2017 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12078695)
It was a skit?

I'll wait for more assertions to come in. He's been around a long time, if it's a pattern there'll be more. Given he's worked to expose abusers like O'Reilly and abusive situations like the Saipan sweatshops, this is another person that the accusation seems out of character for the accused.

It was in a skit, but not consensual.

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 12078717)
If he forced himself on her as described then yes it is assault, but I could see how that situation could arise from a miscommunication.

The photograph, I would say it is all in the context, what was the relationship like between them or the perceived relationship like and so on.

(By the way it looks to me as if one hand is not touching her - the other hand appearing to touch could also be an effect of the foreshortening).

Pretending to grab her boobs while she is asleep, and taking a photo of the act, is sexual harassment, imo.

BobTheCoward 16th November 2017 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 12078717)
If he forced himself on her as described then yes it is assault, but I could see how that situation could arise from a miscommunication.

The photograph, I would say it is all in the context, what was the relationship like between them or the perceived relationship like and so on.

(By the way it looks to me as if one hand is not touching her - the other hand appearing to touch could also be an effect of the foreshortening).

The issue isn't the photo. The issue is backstage he forced his tongue into her mouth.

Stacko 16th November 2017 09:05 AM

Just got a response from @alfranken: "I certainly donít remember the rehearsal for the skit in the same way, but I send my sincerest apologies to Leeann. As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn't. I shouldn't have done it."
That is not a good response. It's time to step down.

Darat 16th November 2017 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 12078729)
The issue isn't the photo. The issue is backstage he forced his tongue into her mouth.

If the photo wasn't part of the issue one would have to wonder why she included it. You also seemed to miss my first sentence.

John Jones 16th November 2017 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 12078729)
The issue isn't the photo. The issue is backstage he forced his tongue into her mouth.

Says who?

ponderingturtle 16th November 2017 09:09 AM

Seems about like the end of the pussygate video. So isn't this kind of sexual harassment really presidential?

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 09:15 AM

If I were to have such a photo taken with a female that I work with, I would be fired.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078753)
If I were to have such a photo taken with a female that I work with, I would be fired.

I'm not sure how that's relevant.

ponderingturtle 16th November 2017 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078753)
If I were to have such a photo taken with a female that I work with, I would be fired.

Would she also be for sleeping on the job?

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078705)
Sexual harassment and sexual assault, of course.

Expelling Moore for his actions will definitely open a can of worms among politicians, imo.

It will definitely empower more victims to come forward, I think.

We've already had reports of how sleazy politicians have been.

Hopefully we can clean up Congress and remove everyone on the "creep list".

OK, then no, I don't agree as a blanket statement the senate (and house I assume) need to start expelling anyone who has Sexual harassment or sexual assault in their past.

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 09:29 AM

The photo humiliates and demeans her via a sexual reference, imo.

I'm sure it was passed around to the boys to giggle over.

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 12078766)
Would she also be for sleeping on the job?

One can take a nap on a break or at lunch, so not necessarily.

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078770)
OK, then no, I don't agree as a blanket statement the senate (and house I assume) need to start expelling anyone who has Sexual harassment or sexual assault in their past.

Well, the harassment seems somewhat variable in degree, but if you actually have a sexual assault in your past, I don't want you in Congress.

Darat 16th November 2017 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078753)
If I were to have such a photo taken with a female that I work with, I would be fired.

In all contexts?

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078776)
Well, the harassment seems somewhat variable in degree, but if you actually have a sexual assault in your past, I don't want you in Congress.

I can probably agree to that part without much tweaking.

The other still has to be somewhat contextual.

The problems are both legal, and political -i.e. appearances.

I'm having a hard time getting worked up over a photo by a comedian that may have been, in your own words, "passed around to the boys to giggle over." Taken in an atmosphere that according to the article " full of sexual innuendo geared toward a young, male audience."

That's the sort of context that at least makes me stop and say hmm ... is this even anywhere the same as me doing that in a corporate office ? And the answer is, of course, no.

OTOH - does it make it all OK ? No, I don't think it necessarily does. But context matters.

Stacko 16th November 2017 09:41 AM

Roy Moore having Keith Ellison as a colleague in the senate is going to be lit.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 09:44 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeann_Tweeden

She has also appeared on the political discussion series Hannity, as a member of the "Great American Panel" and occasionally appeared on the panel of Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld.[4]

In 1996, Tweeden appeared non-nude in a fitness model pictorial for Playboy magazine. Fifteen years later, at 38 years old, she appeared again in the December, 2011 issue of Playboy, this time posing in a nude pictorial. IIn 2002, she was a guest character in the motocross video game Freekstyle as a motocross rider. The March 2007 Issue of FHM (which was the final printed US issue) featured Tweeden as the cover girl.[5] As part of Hooters' 25th anniversary in 2008, she was named among "The Top Hooters Girls of all time".[6]


More context.

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 12078784)
In all contexts?

In the same context.

Sleeping, fellow employee, pretending to grope her breasts.

Stacko 16th November 2017 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078801)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeann_Tweeden

She has also appeared on the political discussion series Hannity, as a member of the "Great American Panel" and occasionally appeared on the panel of Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld.[4]

In 1996, Tweeden appeared non-nude in a fitness model pictorial for Playboy magazine. Fifteen years later, at 38 years old, she appeared again in the December, 2011 issue of Playboy, this time posing in a nude pictorial. IIn 2002, she was a guest character in the motocross video game Freekstyle as a motocross rider. The March 2007 Issue of FHM (which was the final printed US issue) featured Tweeden as the cover girl.[5] As part of Hooters' 25th anniversary in 2008, she was named among "The Top Hooters Girls of all time".[6]


More context.

:rolleyes:

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078801)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeann_Tweeden

She has also appeared on the political discussion series Hannity, as a member of the "Great American Panel" and occasionally appeared on the panel of Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld.[4]

In 1996, Tweeden appeared non-nude in a fitness model pictorial for Playboy magazine. Fifteen years later, at 38 years old, she appeared again in the December, 2011 issue of Playboy, this time posing in a nude pictorial. IIn 2002, she was a guest character in the motocross video game Freekstyle as a motocross rider. The March 2007 Issue of FHM (which was the final printed US issue) featured Tweeden as the cover girl.[5] As part of Hooters' 25th anniversary in 2008, she was named among "The Top Hooters Girls of all time".[6]


More context.

Seems like victim blaming to me. Doesn't matter now many racy or nude photo shoots she did.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacko (Post 12078804)
:rolleyes:

Context doesn't matter in your world ?

Stacko 16th November 2017 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078811)
Context doesn't matter in your world ?

What context is referencing her appearance in Playboy beyond prudish smearing?

godless dave 16th November 2017 09:49 AM

Franken has apologized.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/11/16...unny-about-it/

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacko (Post 12078812)
What context is referencing her appearance in Playboy beyond prudish smearing?

Meh.

She brought it up first in the article
"As a TV host and sports broadcaster, as well as a model familiar to the audience from the covers of FHM, Maxim and Playboy, ...."

If it's not important to context, why bring it up ?

bluesjnr 16th November 2017 09:53 AM

It all sounds a bit desperate to me. She told him what would happen in no uncertain terms if he repeated the act, therefore leaving him in no doubt as to her thoughts on the "assault. That picture is, whilst crass, in no way an example of him "groping her".

She didn't tell some people but she told some people.

It's a done deal and you can hate me all you like for thinking get the **** over it.

Belz... 16th November 2017 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078771)
The photo humiliates and demeans her via a sexual reference, imo.

I'm sure it was passed around to the boys to giggle over.

Speaking as a man, I don't see the appeal.

Belz... 16th November 2017 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078801)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeann_Tweeden

She has also appeared on the political discussion series Hannity, as a member of the "Great American Panel" and occasionally appeared on the panel of Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld.[4]

In 1996, Tweeden appeared non-nude in a fitness model pictorial for Playboy magazine. Fifteen years later, at 38 years old, she appeared again in the December, 2011 issue of Playboy, this time posing in a nude pictorial. IIn 2002, she was a guest character in the motocross video game Freekstyle as a motocross rider. The March 2007 Issue of FHM (which was the final printed US issue) featured Tweeden as the cover girl.[5] As part of Hooters' 25th anniversary in 2008, she was named among "The Top Hooters Girls of all time".[6]


More context.

Context for what?

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12078823)
Speaking as a man, I don't see the appeal.

Me either, but I'm not a comedian or a powerful man in the entertainment business.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12078828)
Context for what?

The story, the pictures, the timing, the people ... :confused:

I didn't intend for it to come across as victim blaming.

RecoveringYuppy 16th November 2017 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 12078766)
Would she also be for sleeping on the job?

According to the article, she was on a cargo plane at the time. And even if she was sleeping on the job it hardly makes what he did right. He really needs to right this wrong and that probably ought to include resigning from the Senate.


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