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-   -   Criminal Charges Against Trump (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347810)

ponderingturtle 25th February 2021 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13408590)
Do we know which reputable banks still deal with his businesses?

Well we know he owes a few hundred million to Deutsche Bank if that counts as reputable.

Random 25th February 2021 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig4 (Post 13407620)
If the New York Times article is accurate (and it almost certainly is because Trump called it fake news) Trump is pretty ******. The devaluing of properties to show a loss on his taxes and increasing values of the same properties for loans is both tax and bank fraud. Documented crimes are the best crimes.

Not necessarily both tax and bank fraud. He might have reported accurate numbers to the Feds, but not the bank, which would be bank fraud but not tax fraud. He might have reported accurate numbers to the bank, but not the Feds, which would be tax fraud but not bank fraud. Indeed, a Trumpian defense could be made here. "Yes, I committed a felony, but you can't prove which one!"

But, yeah. He cheated on both. Trump is a cheater. Cheaters gonna cheat.

SteveAitch 25th February 2021 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B (Post 13408546)
Martha Stewart also comes to mind.

Not to mention Leona Helmsley.

Fast Eddie B 25th February 2021 08:24 AM

News reports are saying Trump’s tax documents were turned over by Lazars.

Crossbow 25th February 2021 09:10 AM

Well, ...

Maybe it has finally happened where all can see just what a greedy, corrupt, POS Trump actually is, because a vast amount of Trump documentation has been turned over to the New York investigators.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...150411162.html

Donald Trump’s Tax Records Finally Turned Over For New York Investigation

Nearly a decade’s worth of former President Donald Trump’s tax documents have been turned over to a New York district attorney’s office, multiple outlets reported Thursday.

The office received millions of pages spanning from January 2011 to August 2019, according to CNN.

...

Paul2 25th February 2021 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbow (Post 13408742)
Well, ...

Maybe it has finally happened where all can see just what a greedy, corrupt, POS Trump actually is, because a vast amount of Trump documentation has been turned over to the New York investigators.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...150411162.html

Donald Trump’s Tax Records Finally Turned Over For New York Investigation

Nearly a decade’s worth of former President Donald Trump’s tax documents have been turned over to a New York district attorney’s office, multiple outlets reported Thursday.

The office received millions of pages spanning from January 2011 to August 2019, according to CNN.

...

At least during the grand jury process everything will be secret, and what we eventually find out will be what is revealed during a trial, but IANAL.

Stacyhs 25th February 2021 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B (Post 13408532)
Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. But he has utilized bankruptcy laws four times for various owned businesses.

https://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/new...mp-bankruptcy/

Personal bankruptcy would be a whole different kettle of fish. If declared, he would need to divest of many personal assets to pay off his creditors. I wonder what a gold toilet brings these days?

He could always sell off Don Jr. and Eric.

Oh. You said 'assets'. Never mind.

slyjoe 25th February 2021 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B (Post 13408532)
Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. But he has utilized bankruptcy laws four times for various owned businesses.

https://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/new...mp-bankruptcy/

Personal bankruptcy would be a whole different kettle of fish. If declared, he would need to divest of many personal assets to pay off his creditors. I wonder what a gold toilet brings these days?

Slight correction - 6 times

Trump Taj Mahal (1991)
Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (1992)
Plaza Hotel (1992)
Trump Castle Hotel and Casino (1992)
Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts (2004)
Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009)

Segnosaur 25th February 2021 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyjoe (Post 13408916)
Quote:

Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. But he has utilized bankruptcy laws four times for various owned businesses.
Slight correction - 6 times

Trump Taj Mahal (1991)
Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (1992)
Plaza Hotel (1992)
Trump Castle Hotel and Casino (1992)
Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts (2004)
Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009)

I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.)

Is it because people are only thinking of his pre-2000 bankruptcies? (i.e. people started thinking of the bankruptcies earlier and they just didn't change to include new information)

Or is it because people lump several bankruptcies in as one? (I think Trump himself might be responsible for that... supposedly he has lumped several together as one during interviews/debates.)

ponderingturtle 25th February 2021 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13408958)
I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.)

Then there are businesses like Trump Airlines that his creditors took away from him and put him on an allowance with out it ever technically declairing bankruptcy.

slyjoe 25th February 2021 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13408958)
I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.)

Is it because people are only thinking of his pre-2000 bankruptcies? (i.e. people started thinking of the bankruptcies earlier and they just didn't change to include new information)

Or is it because people lump several bankruptcies in as one? (I think Trump himself might be responsible for that... supposedly he has lumped several together as one during interviews/debates.)

I think it is because there were 4 years where he filed for bankruptcy.

smartcooky 25th February 2021 12:08 PM

Want to hit him where it hurts?

Take his golf courses and turn them into public access courses with affordable green-fees

Take his beloved Mar-A-Largo and turn it into a shelter for the homeless.

ponderingturtle 25th February 2021 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 13408989)
Want to hit him where it hurts?

Take his golf courses and turn them into public access courses with affordable green-fees

Take his beloved Mar-A-Largo and turn it into a shelter for the homeless.

Oh god how the neighbors would scream from the NIMBYism of the last one.

Fast Eddie B 25th February 2021 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13408958)
I wonder how people keep thinking it was only 4 bankruptcies. (I have to admit, I have made that mistake myself.)

I just got that number from the CNN Business article from 2015 that I linked. Not sure if the error was combining a couple separate bankruptcies into one.

dudalb 25th February 2021 02:24 PM

Manhattan DA now has the tax returns.
Let the fun begin...

dudalb 25th February 2021 02:25 PM

I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing.

Gord_in_Toronto 25th February 2021 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13409141)
I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing.

And not just once!!

Random 25th February 2021 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13409141)
I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing.

It was really pretty simple. He opened more than one casino in the same city with the obvious hopes of increasing his income. But more people did not come to Atlantic city simply because there were more casinos. Running two casinos on one casino's worth of income will put both of them out of business, and pretty much everyone told him so.

Fast Eddie B 28th February 2021 07:34 PM

I just found a great compilation/summary of all the civil and criminal charges and investigations involving Trump:

https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/l...-donald-trump/

Segnosaur 28th February 2021 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random (Post 13409151)
Quote:

I still think the ulitmate comment on Trump as a businessman is he went bankrupt running a casino.That takes some doing.
It was really pretty simple. He opened more than one casino in the same city with the obvious hopes of increasing his income. But more people did not come to Atlantic city simply because there were more casinos. Running two casinos on one casino's worth of income will put both of them out of business, and pretty much everyone told him so.

Didn't he also make the mistake of taking a casino that largely catered to average/middle class people, and tried to do some rather expensive renovations in a failed attempt to appeal to the wealthy?

Random 1st March 2021 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13412036)
Didn't he also make the mistake of taking a casino that largely catered to average/middle class people, and tried to do some rather expensive renovations in a failed attempt to appeal to the wealthy?

Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply.

eerok 1st March 2021 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random (Post 13412363)
Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply.

Let's face it, he was never good at business, only lying and stealing.

Armitage72 1st March 2021 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random (Post 13412363)
Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply.


But his name was on them! That should have caused people from around the world to flock to them to bask in the reflected magnificence. Who wouldn't be proud to say that they flew on a Trump plane , stayed at a Trump hotel, or gambled at a Trump casino?

Gord_in_Toronto 1st March 2021 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage72 (Post 13412673)
But his name was on them! That should have caused people from around the world to flock to them to bask in the reflected magnificence. Who wouldn't be proud to say that they flew on a Trump plane , stayed at a Trump hotel, or gambled at a Trump casino?

But I would have stayed away from a Trump steak for fear of what it was cut from. :eek:

True story -- I actually own a Trump branded shirt. Soon to be available on e-bay. :cool:

Belz... 2nd March 2021 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random (Post 13409151)
It was really pretty simple. He opened more than one casino in the same city with the obvious hopes of increasing his income. But more people did not come to Atlantic city simply because there were more casinos. Running two casinos on one casino's worth of income will put both of them out of business, and pretty much everyone told him so.

Which just shows how bad of a businessman he is. The grift is his only talent.

MRC_Hans 2nd March 2021 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random (Post 13412363)
Oh yeah, he made a lot of dumb mistakes. But the big one was assuming that the number of people who would travel to Atlantic City to gamble would increase simply because there were more places to gamble. Same problem with a lot of his projects like Trump Jets. Demand does not automatically increase with supply.

Which is sort of the basic tenet of business of any kind.

Now, if some city had Casino A, and it made good business, you might want to start a Casino B, to try to grab some of that business. But if you are the one who owns Casino A ... :eek: :confused: :rolleyes:

Hans

Darat 2nd March 2021 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans (Post 13413434)
Which is sort of the basic tenet of business of any kind.

Now, if some city had Casino A, and it made good business, you might want to start a Casino B, to try to grab some of that business. But if you are the one who owns Casino A ... :eek: :confused: :rolleyes:

Hans

And an owner by raising funds via junk bonds. I do think his casino failure really shows how stupid he is better than any other example. His reasoning went “One casino makes $2 billion so two will make $4 billion and 3 will make $6 billion!”

alfaniner 2nd March 2021 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto (Post 13412920)
But I would have stayed away from a Trump steak for fear of what it was cut from. :eek:

True story -- I actually own a Trump branded shirt. Soon to be available on e-bay. :cool:

I actually bought a MAGA cap, with a plan. The rumors of idiots eating Tide detergent pods were rife around that time, so I blocked out some letters on the slogan so it read "MA - I EAT GAIN" and attached a couple of Gain detergent pods to the bill.

I never had the nerve to wear it in public, though.

MRC_Hans 2nd March 2021 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13413437)
And an owner by raising funds via junk bonds. I do think his casino failure really shows how stupid he is better than any other example. His reasoning went “One casino makes $2 billion so two will make $4 billion and 3 will make $6 billion!”

Well, there can be markets where this is true, but it requires an evolving market, and usually falling prices. Smartphones and personal computers come into mind.

Rather obviously, the time when this could possibly be true for physical casinos is long past. Online gambling, on the other hand ....

Hans

timhau 2nd March 2021 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto (Post 13412920)
But I would have stayed away from a Trump steak for fear of what it was cut from. :eek:

Just order it the way it's supposed to be ordered (well done, with lots of ketchup) and it doesn't really matter.

ponderingturtle 2nd March 2021 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans (Post 13413501)
Well, there can be markets where this is true, but it requires an evolving market, and usually falling prices. Smartphones and personal computers come into mind.

Rather obviously, the time when this could possibly be true for physical casinos is long past. Online gambling, on the other hand ....

Hans

And thinking that he can attract the whales away from Vegas and other areas to new jersey.

kookbreaker 2nd March 2021 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13412036)
Didn't he also make the mistake of taking a casino that largely catered to average/middle class people, and tried to do some rather expensive renovations in a failed attempt to appeal to the wealthy?

Sort of. His second casino was decidedly more “fancy” than his first, and it became his baby, getting all his attention while the older casino started falling apart (despite being a more viable casino in the first place). But it didn’t attract anyone new and the shine started coming off Trump’s star so no big rollers came by either.

smartcooky 3rd March 2021 01:19 AM

Looks like the first cab off the rank is about to kick off in GA with the Fulton County DA going to the Grand Jury for document and witness subpoenas in her investigation of Trump's Jan 2 strongarm phone call with GA Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...to-grand-jury/

Segnosaur 5th March 2021 07:55 AM

(Not sure where this should go... general Trump thread, one of the Capitol Riots threads... thought it best fit in here, since it involves Trump and a legal case.)

NAACP and Democratic congressman to Trump: You got served!
(although I don't think we'll see any sort of dance battle)

From: Yahoo News
Attorneys for Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS) and the NAACP have served former President Donald Trump at his Mar-a-Lago club...Thompson and the NAACP filed suit against Trump alleging that his incendiary rhetoric and false claims of a “stolen” election amounted to a conspiracy to interfere with civil rights...The suit names Trump alongside his attorney Rudy Giuliani and the right-wing extremist groups the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers as co-defendants and builds off the 1871 “Ku Klux Klan Act,” which was “intended to protect against conspiracies, through violence and intimidation, that sought to prevent Members of Congress from discharging their official duties,” according to a complaint.

Sadly its only a civil suit, but hey, anything that causes legal headaches for Trump is fine by me. (I recognize that the lawsuit is probably a longshot... issues of free speech and whether the defendants have standing an all.)

Gord_in_Toronto 5th March 2021 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13416763)
(Not sure where this should go... general Trump thread, one of the Capitol Riots threads... thought it best fit in here, since it involves Trump and a legal case.)

NAACP and Democratic congressman to Trump: You got served!
(although I don't think we'll see any sort of dance battle)

From: Yahoo News
Attorneys for Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS) and the NAACP have served former President Donald Trump at his Mar-a-Lago club...Thompson and the NAACP filed suit against Trump alleging that his incendiary rhetoric and false claims of a “stolen” election amounted to a conspiracy to interfere with civil rights...The suit names Trump alongside his attorney Rudy Giuliani and the right-wing extremist groups the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers as co-defendants and builds off the 1871 “Ku Klux Klan Act,” which was “intended to protect against conspiracies, through violence and intimidation, that sought to prevent Members of Congress from discharging their official duties,” according to a complaint.

Sadly its only a civil suit, but hey, anything that causes legal headaches for Trump is fine by me. (I recognize that the lawsuit is probably a longshot... issues of free speech and whether the defendants have standing an all.)

I think any number of lawyers will be carefully examining the language of tat act. ;);)

Squeegee Beckenheim 11th March 2021 08:22 AM

The Georgia DA has brought in a racketeering expert to help with the case against Trump

Racketeering can carry up to 20 years in prison.

Segnosaur 11th March 2021 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13422712)

And speaking of the legal case against Trump in Georgia...

From: NPR
In a newly revealed phone call, former President Donald Trump asked a Georgia law enforcement official to find evidence of fraud with absentee-by-mail ballots, the latest revelation in his unsuccessful attempt to overturn the state's election results. "Whatever you can do, Frances, it would be — it's a great thing," Trump said to Georgia Secretary of State chief investigator Frances Watson.

That Trump called other officials in Georgia (apart from Raffensperger) is no big surprise. And given how... bad... the Raffensperger recording made Trump look, I'm not sure if this particular call makes that much difference. Still, more evidence is not a bad thing, and knowing that there are even more Georgia election officials that Trump tried to manipulate might mean more chance that Trump will be convicted.

ponderingturtle 11th March 2021 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13422795)
And speaking of the legal case against Trump in Georgia...

From: NPR
In a newly revealed phone call, former President Donald Trump asked a Georgia law enforcement official to find evidence of fraud with absentee-by-mail ballots, the latest revelation in his unsuccessful attempt to overturn the state's election results. "Whatever you can do, Frances, it would be — it's a great thing," Trump said to Georgia Secretary of State chief investigator Frances Watson.

That Trump called other officials in Georgia (apart from Raffensperger) is no big surprise. And given how... bad... the Raffensperger recording made Trump look, I'm not sure if this particular call makes that much difference. Still, more evidence is not a bad thing, and knowing that there are even more Georgia election officials that Trump tried to manipulate might mean more chance that Trump will be convicted.

Did it make him look bad in a way that changed anyone's opinion on him though? That is just Trump being Trump it makes no difference.

Segnosaur 11th March 2021 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13422798)
Quote:

That Trump called other officials in Georgia (apart from Raffensperger) is no big surprise. And given how... bad... the Raffensperger recording made Trump look, I'm not sure if this particular call makes that much difference. Still, more evidence is not a bad thing, and knowing that there are even more Georgia election officials that Trump tried to manipulate might mean more chance that Trump will be convicted.
Did it make him look bad in a way that changed anyone's opinion on him though? That is just Trump being Trump it makes no difference.

It is less important how it looks to the average Georgia MAGAchud than how it looks to the individuals who will be prosecuting the case and sitting on the jury. From what I understand, the charges are being brought in Fulton County, which voted overwhelmingly for Biden in the last election (>70%), so it might be easier to get a jury willing to convict.

SteveAitch 11th March 2021 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13422810)
It is less important how it looks to the average Georgia MAGAchud than how it looks to the individuals who will be prosecuting the case and sitting on the jury. From what I understand, the charges are being brought in Fulton County, which voted overwhelmingly for Biden in the last election (>70%), so it might be easier to get a jury willing to convict.

In that case can't he/his lawyers demand(?) that the case should be held somewhere else as the whole county is biased against him* and he won't get a fair trial? And if that fails and he is found guilty, appeal on the grounds that a fair trial was not possible? And generally drag things out for as long as possible?

* Though this would go against his stolen votes idea and probably count against him re the dodgy phone-call.


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