Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election
 

I think we should have a thread specifically about voter fraud, or election fraud in general, in the recently completed 2020 election.

One of the benefits of the JREF, and we continue that legacy, was the way it critically examined claims and debunked false ones. The important part was not merely the debunking, but also educating the people reading about it in the way that false claims were made, spread, and ultimately debunked. In some cases, that did not mean a complete and total debunking. Some of the most effective nonsense is spread by mixing it in with a kernel of truth.

So, I think we should have a dedicated thread for allegations of vote fraud where we can cite examples, and present evidence that shows whether it did or did not happen, and also explore sources and examine ways in which the allegations are spread. This can also serve as a resource for people to find information for off-forum discussions and interests.

Some of this is happening in the general election thread, but that topic is much broader, and is easily diverted every time a new Trump tweet is reported, so I would like to see it discussed here.

So, please, anyone who thinks there is evidence of vote fraud, let's bring it up and we'll see if we can delve into it.

There's a thread about this in the CT forum. Not sure what is more appropriate. There is yet no evidence of these claims and it smacks of your typical CT, but it does have an explicitly political axis which may make it more appropriate for this subforum.

Barring any credible evidence of significant vote fraud, it seems more appropriate to store this CT with all the other garbage in the CT subforum.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=347781

deleted

Could I suggest that we start by addressing the following post?

There's a nice solid list of allegations to get stuck into there.

Dave

The Wisconsin "vote turnout" irregularity is debunked, it was using registration data from the 2018 election. The turnout wasn't unusually high in the state when you use 2020 eligible voter numbers.

It wasn't even the record. 2004 had slightly higher turnout.

You have to understand that this is a new kind of conspiracy theory, one unique to our new, wonderful Post-Fact world.

Because the goal is not to actually convince anyone that the election was rigged. It's to just get the idea out there because since there's no intellectual or argumentative standards anymore and everything is "just like, you're opinion man" that's all it takes.

I wouldn't waste time on these. It's up to ST to provide evidence of his allegations.

Given that no state election commission has reported significant voting problems, it is up to the Trump legal team to convince a Judge.
So far, they have gotten nowhere.

How about we don't lend credence to these allegations by debunking them? They are **** allegations, and we know this because Trump gave the game away way in advance.

Yeah, it's a dog's breakfast of nonsense that even the right isn't taking too seriously.

Unless it's something the Trump campaign is willing to try to argue in court, dismissing these claims outright seems wise.

It's much more desperation than any real basis. The example of the Wisconsin "turnout irregularity" seems to have sprouted from a single meme that went viral.

The mad Gish gallop of meritless claims says a lot about the mindset of the CHUDs though. They are desperately grasping for straws. They hold onto a glimmer of hope for these meritless lawsuits, but I imagine this desperation will turn to destructive rage once it becomes clear to them Trump has no recourse to his loss.

Rudy already said they intend to do just that, just outside of Four Seasons Total Landscaping. Guess we'll see how that goes.

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I AGREE

When someone offers some evidence to back up these claims then consider them.

I'll start with the Antrim County claim.

Here's a link that discusses it:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/pol...ty/6209693002/


Basically, when they ran the votes through the tabulators, they came up odd, and so the county got on the phone with the vendor of the tabulators, people looked into it, got the right software in place, and reran the numbers.

This isn't evidence of vote fraud at all. It's evidence that people are paying attention and when they see an irregularity, they check it and fix it. The system worked.

What it does suggest is that our voting systems can be improved, and mistakes are possible. Fortunately, we have good people running these operations looking out for these mistakes, and correcting them as fast as possible.

Election 2020: A look at Trump campaign election lawsuits and where they stand

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/elec...ry?id=74041748
here's a source on the several lawsuits the Trump campaign has already tried, and their status.

Some of them have already been dismissed.

Seems a common trend in several dismissed lawsuits that the Trump campaign is unhappy that their poll observers can't observe exactly how they please, and judges not granting their motions to compel specific requests.

There seemed to be some maneuvering to see that late arriving mail ballots be rejected or otherwise separated, but Biden's win in these states with on time ballots seems to have largely mooted this.

Ok. I hadn't noticed it. I'll let the mods decide where is most appropriate, if they want to merge this one.

I tend to think it ought to be in politics, but I don't have strong feelings on the subject. (I thought about posting it to CTs myself, but decided politics was more appropriate, at least for now, just because this topic is a bit more "mainstream" than typical CT fare.)

Former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich told Newsmax TV that election fraud runs deep and is widespread in large Democrat-controlled cities.

lol "instincts".

Facts don't care about your feelings.

Now, about those back dated ballots in Detroit. here's a story on that one:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ered-backdated

Summary: The FBI is looking into it.


What that tells me is that allegations of voter fraud are taken very seriously, and it would be very hard to get away with actual fraud. Allegations like this should be investigated, and they are, by dedicated people who want to squash fraud like a bug before it has a chance to spread.

We will see what comes of this story.

Well, I mean if his "instincts" tell him, then I guess all we need now is someone's Spidey Sense to tingle, and the game is over.

The same Rod Blagojevich that had to have Trump commute him out of an 14 year prison sentence for accepting bribes to get Obama's Senate Seat? That guy?

Do you pick your examples for maximum irony and hypocrisy or is it just a coincidence?

this has nothing to do with your source having been pardoned by Trump, has it?
'Rod' has a fanatical pro-Trump podcast he is promoting.
He is not contributing any actual information.

Quoting people without evidence is not evidence.

Well he mentions his "instincts" yes, but he makes it clear that this is based on his personal knowledge of party politics and operations. So it's not quite the same as some random hobo on the street saying it.

Not much there. If you allege a crime to the FBI, they'll probably respond with a claim that they are "investigating".

The article is unclear, but it sounds like any claims were passed off second hand from the state GOP headquarters, so it's unclear if anyone with first hand knowledge of anything actually made a complaint.

I expect a lot of these claims of fraud will find a shortage of people willing to make eye-witness claims to the FBI, because lying to the cops is a crime. There will be no shortage of second-hand reports that the FBI will "investigate", but I'm not holding my breath for anything substantial.

I'm glad Blagojevich has instincts. Bet he has outstincts too. And trans-, sub-, intra-, intro-, meta-, xeno-, extra-, and even ULTRASTINCTS!

English is such a beautiful language.

He doesn't actually substantiate any of it. How he knows it, how it works, etc.

Interesting wording:

So was the city worker ALSO an election worker? Or is this second hand information?

ETA: Sorta ninja'ed by SuburbanTurkey.

Weird that he didn’t take his evidence to the proper authorities and instead chose to go to some hack right wing media outlet.

I’m starting to think that this proven liar and convicted felon might be untrustworthy.

My instincts tell me that you might be correct.

This might be true. One other bit of evidence that needs to be thrown into the mix, however, is this:

Blago to Black Trump supporters: ‘I’m one of your homies’

His corruption sentence was commuted by Trump.

Now this one:

Classic CT methodology. A vague claim on something where an extremely precise claim is possible.

Statistics is math. Equations. Data. The declaration that something is "statistically impossible" can only come as a result of a calculation, and yet, no calculation is provided. No substance. No backup. Impossible to investigate the claim, because there's no information, despite the fact that the claim is meaningless without that information.


But wait......something about it can be investiaged, because it is no doubt being repeated in exactly the same meaningless form across the interenet, and google can probably find the root of this claim. (Those guys at google can find things pretty well, because they are good with statistics.) So, lets' see what I might turn up just by putting that exact phrase into google.

Good catch.

No, it’s just the word of a proven liar and convicted felon, absent any corroborative evidence.

Having worked within the system he’s now claiming is corrupt, he’s basically a whistleblower and should be able to blow this whole thing wide open with damning evidence.

When do you anticipate this will happen?

The claims in this thread are embarrassing. To all the MAGA types out there, you recall the libs melting down in 2016 and how silly they looked right? You're blowing your shot to not look even more pathetic now that it's your guy getting trounced by a terrible opponent.

Cope levels are through the roof.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...974b78ecf6.jpg

If someone says "I used to be in the mafia and I had knowledge of mafia hits that were undertaken. This guy who just washed up on the shore has all the telltale signs of a mafia hit, and he was exactly the type of guy they would put a hit out on. He had such and such information and was threatening to expose it..."

It doesn't make sense to say "oh well then why don't you go to the cops and prove it?"

He isn't saying he knows it for a fact, he's saying that as someone who is familiar with the methods of operation, what he's seeing fits the pattern perfectly.

When I put in the phrase "statistically impossible voter turnout", with quotes, this is the first hit I got back:

https://thetentacle.com/2020/11/4769/

Apparently, the phrase was uttered by one Leigh Dundas, a lawyer, during a conference call in something Trump relateed.

Well if you can't trust a lawyer quoted in The Tentacle, who can you trust?

In all seriousness, though, it goes back to my last post. What was the turnout? Why was it statistically impossible? If it's statistics, there has to be math to back it up. CTers are famous for using words like "statistically" to make themselves sound smart, but eventually, you are supposed to show statistics. Those are numbers.

On the other hand, lawyers in conference calls are allowed to sling BS. In court, they are severely restricted from doing so, but in the media, they can, and do, say whatever they like. Maybe she should schedule a press conference at Norm's Plumbing Supply and reveal the evidence.

Well, at any rate, if someone can present the statistics, someone should. Until then, claims of "statistically impossible", ring a little hollow.

Blagojevich's claim, though, is at least a step further removed than your hypothetical; it's more like an ex-mafia hit man hearing that someone's died and saying, "My instinct tells me this was a hit because he's exactly the sort of guy the mafia tends to hit" when he hasn't actually seen the body and doesn't know what the dead man knew or was planning to say. Blagojevich isn't saying "Here are tell-tale signs of specific scams I'm familiar with," he's just saying "I think this election was stolen because Democrats always steal elections."

Also, the State of Georgia is hardly a "large Democrat-controlled city".

Dave

The mafia is a criminal organization not open to public scrutiny.

The election system of any given state is very much open to public scrutiny.

The proven liar and convicted felon that you find trustworthy for some reason has made claims that can easily be substantiated or refuted by an investigation.

When do you anticipate the evidence for these claims will be presented and the subsequent investigation will begin?

This is all philosopher logic where someone goes "Okay this is a fact, it's a thing that actually happened" and they respond with "Okay but what if" and expect it to be treated the same.

I posted the link about Blagojevich in here because it's a thread for collecting stuff about 2020 election fraud claims / info.

Didn't put much more thought into it than that. I didn't think to myself "oh yeah, this is hard core evidence"