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-   -   Bill Barr and his October Surprise (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346780)

Giordano 19th October 2020 06:35 PM

Let’s see:

Under intense pressure by Trump Giuliani has been searching for years to get something on Biden. There is USA counter intelligence evidence that the Russians have been feeding him disinformation to do do.

Giuliani gets a phone call from an obscure computer repair store. He buys into the bizarre story and shops it to the Post because he felt more legitimate newspapers would find it to smelly to touch. He stated that in his opinion there is a 50/50 chance that it is Russian disinformation but that he doesn’t care.

The primary reporter in charge of it thought it was so questionable that he refused to put his name on it despite it would make him famous if true. Similarly many other members of the Post news staff found it highly questionable despite the Post being a primary source of attacks on Biden.

There is evidence the drive was manufactured after the alleged emails were installed on it.

The metadata similarly indicates the emails on it were written in Eastern Europe after the alleged dates Hunter supposedly wrote them.

The computer repair person says he couldn’t recognize the person dropping off the drives. But somehow later decided to scan the drive (remember he had no reason to suspect it had anything of interest on it) and contact Giuliani.


But sure, looks like a smoking gun to me.

xjx388 19th October 2020 06:41 PM

Why would a “millionaire drug addict” be dropping off a laptop at a rinky-dink repair shop? That part makes very little sense. People with money own or work for companies who have IT departments. If they want to do something below the radar, they have friends and connections who can help. Using some unknown shop in Delaware doesn’t fit.

Giordano 19th October 2020 06:43 PM

Not only do I wonder why Hunter would drop off an external hard drive across the country from where he lives but that he would bother to have an external backup drive repaired at all. They cost a few hundred bucks to buy a new one. If data extraction was his primary goal it makes no sense that he would not go back to get the data.

Giordano 19th October 2020 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13263138)
Why would a “millionaire drug addict” be dropping off a laptop at a rinky-dink repair shop? That part makes very little sense. People with money own or work for companies who have IT departments. If they want to do something below the radar, they have friends and connections who can help. Using some unknown shop in Delaware doesn’t fit.

Exactly!

pgwenthold 19th October 2020 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13263138)
Why would a “millionaire drug addict” be dropping off a laptop at a rinky-dink repair shop? That part makes very little sense. People with money own or work for companies who have IT departments. If they want to do something below the radar, they have friends and connections who can help. Using some unknown shop in Delaware doesn’t fit.

What's so important on the hard drives that he'd even bother getting them repaired? Much less getting 3 of them repaired.

I have a bunch of abandoned laptops. Laptops die and you get a new one. And I'm not a millionaire

varwoche 19th October 2020 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13262992)
Hunter Biden has an admitted history of drug abuse. That you chose to challenge that fact isn't going to work out well for you. You spoke as though you were an expert. He clearly fell asleep with a DOPE pipe in his mouth. How's that?

How bleakly amusing. My "expertise" is based on readily available reporting.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 07:25 PM

I love all the "why" questions as to why a (insert "crack" or "meth") addict would.............

as if the actions of a (insert "crack" or "meth") addict is in any way rational, cognizant, or explainable.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 07:31 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by varwoche (Post 13263177)
How bleakly amusing. My "expertise" is based on readily available reporting.


That's funny, you provided nothing. Meanwhile

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/m...on/meth-mouth/

Giordano 19th October 2020 07:36 PM

Double post.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giordano (Post 13263203)
Let’s see:

Under intense pressure by Trump Giuliani has been searching for years to get something on Biden. There is USA counter intelligence evidence that the Russians have been feeding him disinformation to do do.

Giuliani finally (surprise) gets a phone call from an obscure computer repair shop in the middle of nowhere.

Giuliani buys into the bizarre story and shops it to the Post because he felt more legitimate newspapers would find it too smelly to touch. He stated that in his opinion there is a 50/50 chance that it is Russian disinformation but that he doesn’t care.

The primary reporter in charge of it thought it was so questionable that he refused to put his name on it despite it might make him famous if true. Similarly many other members of the Post news staff found it highly questionable despite the Post being well funded for its attacks on Biden.

There is evidence the drive was manufactured after the alleged emails were installed on it.

The metadata similarly indicates the emails on it were written in Eastern Europe after the alleged dates Hunter supposedly wrote them.

The computer repair person says he couldn’t recognize the person dropping off the drives. But somehow later decided to scan the drive (remember he had no reason to suspect it had anything of interest on it) and contacts Giuliani.


But sure, looks like a smoking gun to me.

You are either lying or misinformed with some of this.

Silly Green Monkey 19th October 2020 07:41 PM

Like what?

Giordano 19th October 2020 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263214)
You are either lying or misinformed with some of this.

Have you been keeping up with the thread and the links cited in it?

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263215)
Like what?

I'll eventually get to more but for starters he says

"Giuliani buys into the bizarre story and shops it to the Post because he felt more legitimate newspapers would find it too smelly to touch. He stated that in his opinion there is a 50/50 chance that it is Russian disinformation but that he doesn’t care."

Complete fabrication and conflating

"Sure, the U.S. Treasury Department may have declared one of his former associates—Ukrainian parliamentarian Andrii Derkach, who worked with Giuliani on his hunt for dirt on the Bidens—to be an “active Russian agent.” But that’s some Deep State talk, he added. “The chance that Derkach is a Russian spy is no better than 50/50.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rudy-g...dirt-on-bidens

So, as we can see, Giuliani was referring to whether Andrii Derkach was an "active Russian agent." Not on whether the emails were Russian disinformation. To that, Giuliani says B.S.

There is a lot to unpack in that post.

1. "The metadata similarly indicates the emails on it were written in Eastern Europe after the alleged dates Hunter supposedly wrote them."

Can I get a cite for this claim? As I understand it, the emails haven't been released, so how can anyone ascertain any metadata?

2. "There is evidence the drive was manufactured after the alleged emails were installed on it."

Can I get a cite for this claim?

3."The computer repair person says he couldn’t recognize the person dropping off the drives. But somehow later decided to scan the drive (remember he had no reason to suspect it had anything of interest on it) and contacts Giuliani."

Let's see what he actually said.

"Isaac said the man who he believes to be Hunter Biden dropped off three laptops at his store in April 2019, only one of which was salvageable. While repairing the laptop, Isaac said he discovered disturbing material."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hun...paul-mac-isaac

4. "Giuliani finally (surprise) gets a phone call from an obscure computer repair shop in the middle of nowhere."

Now, what the repair man says happened,

"In September, he contacted an intermediary about the emails. The intermediary then contacted the FBI.
Isaac said the intermediary is an American citizen who he has known for decades, but declined to provide further details about their identity."

and

"According to Isaac’s account, the FBI first made a forensic copy of the laptop, then returned weeks later with a subpoena and confiscated it. When he stopped hearing from the FBI, Isaac said he contacted several members of Congress, who did not respond. At that point, his intermediary reached out to Rudy Giuliani’s attorney, Robert Costello."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hun...paul-mac-isaac

I think that's enough to either get some cites from Giordano to back up his claims, or come to the conclusion he isn't interested in what actually happened and is just throwing the proverbial doo doo at the wall hoping something will stick.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giordano (Post 13263230)
Have you been keeping up with the thread and the links cited in it?

Yes, have you? Obviously not.

Giordano 19th October 2020 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263238)
I'll eventually get to more but for starters he says

"Giuliani buys into the bizarre story and shops it to the Post because he felt more legitimate newspapers would find it too smelly to touch. He stated that in his opinion there is a 50/50 chance that it is Russian disinformation but that he doesn’t care."

Complete fabrication and conflating

"Sure, the U.S. Treasury Department may have declared one of his former associates—Ukrainian parliamentarian Andrii Derkach, who worked with Giuliani on his hunt for dirt on the Bidens—to be an “active Russian agent.” But that’s some Deep State talk, he added. “The chance that Derkach is a Russian spy is no better than 50/50.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rudy-g...dirt-on-bidens

So, as we can see, Giuliani was referring to whether Andrii Derkach was an "active Russian agent." Not on whether the emails were Russian disinformation. To that, Giuliani says B.S.

There is a lot to unpack in that post.

1. "The metadata similarly indicates the emails on it were written in Eastern Europe after the alleged dates Hunter supposedly wrote them."

Can I get a cite for this claim? As I understand it, the emails haven't been released, so how can anyone ascertain any metadata?

2. "There is evidence the drive was manufactured after the alleged emails were installed on it."

Can I get a cite for this claim?

3."The computer repair person says he couldn’t recognize the person dropping off the drives. But somehow later decided to scan the drive (remember he had no reason to suspect it had anything of interest on it) and contacts Giuliani."

Let's see what he actually said.

"Isaac said the man who he believes to be Hunter Biden dropped off three laptops at his store in April 2019, only one of which was salvageable. While repairing the laptop, Isaac said he discovered disturbing material."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hun...paul-mac-isaac

4. "Giuliani finally (surprise) gets a phone call from an obscure computer repair shop in the middle of nowhere."

Now, what the repair man says happened,

"In September, he contacted an intermediary about the emails. The intermediary then contacted the FBI.
Isaac said the intermediary is an American citizen who he has known for decades, but declined to provide further details about their identity."

and

"According to Isaac’s account, the FBI first made a forensic copy of the laptop, then returned weeks later with a subpoena and confiscated it. When he stopped hearing from the FBI, Isaac said he contacted several members of Congress, who did not respond. At that point, his intermediary reached out to Rudy Giuliani’s attorney, Robert Costello."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hun...paul-mac-isaac

I think that's enough to either get some cites from Giordano to back up his claims, or come to the conclusion he isn't interested in what actually happened and is just throwing the proverbial doo doo at the wall hoping something will stick.

So you haven’t been keeping up with the thread or the external links I and others have been citing it it. That explains a lot.

Just look upthread. I will not be duplicating the information I’ve already documented.

BTW I love your spin.. Giuliani didn’t state that chances were 50/50 that this was a Russian disinformation campaign, just that chances were 50/50 that Derkach, the person who worked with him for all this time to obtain all these anti- Biden smears, was an Russian agent. Oh, that changes everything! Perhaps they were just playing chess. And the Counterpro warnings that Giuliani was a pawn being fed Russian disinformation, was just another example of the evil deep state. I didn’t bother to mention the FBI’s role because they are apparently investigating this as possible Russian interference, not an argument in your favor.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giordano (Post 13263260)
So you haven’t been keeping up with the thread or the external links I and others have been citing it it. That explains a lot.

Just look upthread. I will not be duplicating the information I’ve already documented.

BTW I love your spin.. Giuliani didn’t state that chances were 50/50 that this was a Russian disinformation campaign, just that chances were 50/50 that Derkach, the person who worked with him for all this time to obtain all these anti- Biden smears, was an Russian agent. Oh, that changes everything! Perhaps they were just playing chess. And the Counterpronnwarnings that Giuliani was a pawn being fed Russian disinformation, was just another example of the evil deep state.

You obviously have no answer. There are no cites which back up your claims. And still lying about the 50/50 even after being provided cites. You aren't serious, and will be treated as such.

Regnad Kcin 19th October 2020 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timhau (Post 13259835)
But... but... his emails!!

timhau, Pith lord.

jerrywayne 19th October 2020 08:56 PM

Ratcliffe promised to be non-partisan at his confirmation hearing. Guess he had his fingers crossed.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckra...mp-re-election

Ziggurat 19th October 2020 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13263138)
Why would a “millionaire drug addict” be dropping off a laptop at a rinky-dink repair shop? That part makes very little sense. People with money own or work for companies who have IT departments. If they want to do something below the radar, they have friends and connections who can help. Using some unknown shop in Delaware doesn’t fit.

Hunter isn't known for making smart life decisions.

Giordano 19th October 2020 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263261)
You obviously have no answer. There are no cites which back up your claims. And still lying about the 50/50 even after being provided cites. You aren't serious, and will be treated as such.

Here’s one:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...disinfo-430276

Here is another:
https://www.businessinsider.com/giul...an-spy-2020-10

I am not going to cite each Point I made because as I stated the citations are all upthread.

Ziggurat 19th October 2020 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13262986)
Does the drug part actually matter?

It's relevant to the question of what state of mind would be required to drop off a laptop at a repair shop and never come back to pick it up.

But meth vs. crack/cocaine probably doesn't matter. He has admitted to the latter, he may or may not have done the former.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giordano (Post 13263286)
Here’s one:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...disinfo-430276

Here is another:
https://www.businessinsider.com/giul...an-spy-2020-10

I am not going to cite each Point I made because as I stated the citations are all upthread.


Obviously trolling. Neither article supports your claim. Not sure what you're expecting to accomplish being this dishonest.

Lurch 19th October 2020 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263191)
I love all the "why" questions as to why a (insert "crack" or "meth") addict would.............

as if the actions of a (insert "crack" or "meth") addict is in any way rational, cognizant, or explainable.

You're clinging to the drugs aspect in the way Ghouliani and co are hoping will sell their setup. That being: Even a well heeled dopehead with access and means will, in his addled state, do something so outlandish as this hare-brained story they've cooked up.

If only they could have roped in someone more convincing and better placed than this hapless shmuck, this marginally useful idiot running a hole-in-the-wall 'puter repair joint.

The Great Zaganza 19th October 2020 09:37 PM

Being reported that Fox refused the laptop story because it was too fishy.

Giordano 19th October 2020 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263292)
Obviously trolling. Neither article supports your claim. Not sure what you're expecting to accomplish being this dishonest.

Are you reading these links? Well I will not be your monkey dancing to your organ playing. I will just let the other members read the actual cites and see who agrees with whose interpretation.

timhau 19th October 2020 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13263281)
Hunter isn't known for making smart life decisions.

... and so we get to the fantastic get-home-free pass at the heart of so many conspiracy theories: Like the putting telltale Illuminati signs in at Denver Airport, it's not smart, not necessary and not the easiest thing to do, but they just do it.

Silly Green Monkey 19th October 2020 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263238)
I'll eventually get to more but for starters he says

"Giuliani buys into the bizarre story and shops it to the Post because he felt more legitimate newspapers would find it too smelly to touch. He stated that in his opinion there is a 50/50 chance that it is Russian disinformation but that he doesn’t care."

Complete fabrication and conflating

"Sure, the U.S. Treasury Department may have declared one of his former associates—Ukrainian parliamentarian Andrii Derkach, who worked with Giuliani on his hunt for dirt on the Bidens—to be an “active Russian agent.” But that’s some Deep State talk, he added. “The chance that Derkach is a Russian spy is no better than 50/50.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rudy-g...dirt-on-bidens

Good God, even just this little part is horrifying. Really, he can't guarantee more than a flip of a coin that he's NOT working with a foreign agent of a country that interfered in our last election and would have no reason to suddenly stop interfering in this one? Fifty-fifty is the best he can offer?!

Ziggurat 19th October 2020 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timhau (Post 13263298)
... and so we get to the fantastic get-home-free pass at the heart of so many conspiracy theories: Like the putting telltale Illuminati signs in at Denver Airport, it's not smart, not necessary and not the easiest thing to do, but they just do it.

There's no "they". It's one person, Hunter. And he's a moron.

Babbylonian 19th October 2020 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13263308)
There's no "they". It's one person, Hunter. And he's a moron.

At least one part of this is on the verge of truth: None if this has anything to do with Joe Biden.

timhau 19th October 2020 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13263308)
There's no "they". It's one person, Hunter. And he's a moron.

Yes, changing the pronoun obviously makes all the difference. Ann Dunham also credibly flew to Kenya for delivery because she wasn't "they".

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giordano (Post 13263297)
Are you reading these links? Well I will not be your monkey dancing to your organ playing. I will just let the other members read the actual cites and see who agrees with whose interpretation.

Facts don't need interpretation. You posted links which disprove your 50/50 claim about the emails. The other has nothing to do with anything you claimed. It's the "opinion" of 50 people that have no access to any more information than you or I.

Skeptic Ginger 19th October 2020 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13263281)
Hunter isn't known for making smart life decisions.

So you've read his bio or is this conclusion based on a couple news headlines?

Because, you know, a whole lot of people have used drugs in their pasts without it ruining their lives.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263301)
Good God, even just this little part is horrifying. Really, he can't guarantee more than a flip of a coin that he's NOT working with a foreign agent of a country that interfered in our last election and would have no reason to suddenly stop interfering in this one? Fifty-fifty is the best he can offer?!

Not without evidence. If there is evidence Andrii Derkach is a Russian asset/agent, I'd like to see it, specifically what? The only reason I have doubts is that no evidence is presented, and I don't think he'd be in Parlament in the Ukraine if he was, he'd be in jail.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch (Post 13263294)
You're clinging to the drugs aspect in the way Ghouliani and co are hoping will sell their setup. That being: Even a well heeled dopehead with access and means will, in his addled state, do something so outlandish as this hare-brained story they've cooked up.

If only they could have roped in someone more convincing and better placed than this hapless shmuck, this marginally useful idiot running a hole-in-the-wall 'puter repair joint.

And yet the laptop was taken from the repair guy by the FBI. Now, are you saying Biden didn't take it in? The emails are fake? Fake and planted? This repair guy made his story up?

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263301)
Good God, even just this little part is horrifying. Really, he can't guarantee more than a flip of a coin that he's NOT working with a foreign agent of a country that interfered in our last election and would have no reason to suddenly stop interfering in this one? Fifty-fifty is the best he can offer?!


Caveat, Andrii Derkach has nothing to do with the Biden emails.

Ziggurat 19th October 2020 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13263317)
So you've read his bio or is this conclusion based on a couple news headlines?

Because, you know, a whole lot of people have used drugs in their pasts without it ruining their lives.

His illegitimate child with a stripper that he tried unsuccessfully to deny was his is a bigger indication of how stupid he is than his drug use, tbh.

xjx388 19th October 2020 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13263281)
Hunter isn't known for making smart life decisions.

Well, that's true. But he seems like he was a functioning addict, which makes sense being a rich kid. I know a few people with money and bad drug habits. They simply don't have the same issues that the stereotypical coke/meth head does. One prominent member of our community is like that, works his butt off all day running his various businesses; most people wouldn't suspect, on the face of it, that he parties really hearty most nights. I know that guy isn't dropping off laptops at strip-mall repair shops. Hell, I don't know anyone with money who drops off laptops at repair shops anymore.

In any case, the laptop was dropped off in April of 2019. My understanding is that he had already been through rehab at that point and had been clean. I could be wrong on that point, I don't know his life; but, if that's true then any drug use is a non-issue as far as his decision making goes. It just doesn't make sense that Hunter Biden would randomly wander into a small repair shop in Delaware, drop off a laptop and then forget about it. Especially if he had kicked the drugs at that point. Especially if it had information he really wanted or considered potentially damaging to himself or his father.

Ziggurat 19th October 2020 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timhau (Post 13263314)
Yes, changing the pronoun obviously makes all the difference. Ann Dunham also credibly flew to Kenya for delivery because she wasn't "they".

Here’s the kicker: the provenance of the laptop is actually the least interesting part of all this. The real issue is the authenticity of the emails themselves.

And Hunter isn’t claiming they aren’t real. I wonder why.

Minoosh 19th October 2020 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263327)
Caveat, Andrii Derkach has nothing to do with the Biden emails.

How do you know?

xjx388 19th October 2020 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13263338)
Here’s the kicker: the provenance of the laptop is actually the least interesting part of all this. The real issue is the authenticity of the emails themselves.

And Hunter isn’t claiming they aren’t real. I wonder why.

Even if they are real, they aren't really a smoking gun as far as showing corruption. It would be surprising if his contacts didn't try to get him to make introductions and use his influence. The question is whether or not those efforts bore any fruit and I don't think there is evidence that they did.


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