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-   -   Bill Barr and his October Surprise (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346780)

Segnosaur 21st October 2020 09:05 PM

Re: was it Hunter Biden's laptop, but got stolen then "turned in" to the shop...
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13266038)
Yeah no.



Why make up a convoluted story about a laptop that either doesn't exist or has absolutely no connection to Hunter Biden?

I think some people might be thinking part (but not all) of the data on the laptop might be real, and are trying to figure out how that might have gotten there, given all of the bizarre plot twists. A stolen laptop might explain that.

That is of course any of the data does turn out to be valid.



Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

Minoosh 21st October 2020 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13266060)
Where is a single shred of evidence there was ever a Hunter Biden laptop involved in this at all ?????????

Because it sounds like the kind of miscellaneous crap that someone would keep on a laptop.

The thank-you note quoted is so weak as evidence of corruption that I believe it's genuine. That doesn't speak to the rest of the contents.

Bogative 21st October 2020 09:27 PM

One of the China email recipients has issued a statement claiming the email is real and not made up by the Russians.


Quote:

My name is Tony Bobulinski. The facts set forth below are true and accurate; they are not any form of domestic or foreign disinformation. Any suggestion to the contrary is false and offensive. I am the recipient of the email published seven days ago by the New York Post which showed a copy to Hunter Biden and Rob Walker. That email is genuine.



I am the CEO of Sinohawk Holdings which was a partnership between the Chinese operating through CEFC/Chairman Ye and the Biden family. I was brought into the company to be the CEO by James Gilliar and Hunter Biden. The reference to “the Big Guy” in the much publicized May 13, 2017 email is in fact a reference to Joe Biden. The other “JB” referenced in that email is Jim Biden, Joe’s brother.

Hunter Biden called his dad ‘the Big Guy’ or ‘my Chairman,’ and frequently referenced asking him for his sign-off or advice on various potential deals that we were discussing. I’ve seen Vice President Biden saying he never talked to Hunter about his business. I’ve seen firsthand that that’s not true, because it wasn’t just Hunter’s business, they said they were putting the Biden family name and its legacy on the line.
Link

Bobulinski sounds kind of Russian to me, he must be an agent of Russia. ******* Putin!

CORed 21st October 2020 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 13266070)
Because it sounds like the kind of miscellaneous crap that someone would keep on a laptop.

The thank-you note quoted is so weak as evidence of corruption that I believe it's genuine. That doesn't speak to the rest of the contents.

I suspect that the email about the meeting is real. I think whoever Giuliani is working with (likely Russian agents) somehow got a hold of some of Hunter Biden's emails. That particular email is nothing at all, but it is the hook they are trying to use to convince people that all the other crap is also real. They could have gotten some of Hunter's emails in a variety of ways, with a stolen laptop being a pretty likely one. I don't buy the "He brought the computer in for repair on the opposite coast from where he lives and never bothered to pick it up" story at all. It just doesn't make sense at all, that he would have the repair done in Delaware instead of California (even though Dad does live there), that he would take it to some strip mall mom and pop store, or that he wouldn't pick it up is not the least bit plausible. I suspect that all the pedophilia and child porn allegations are made up out of whole cloth.

Skeptic Ginger 21st October 2020 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13266065)
Re: was it Hunter Biden's laptop, but got stolen then "turned in" to the shop...

I think some people might be thinking part (but not all) of the data on the laptop might be real, and are trying to figure out how that might have gotten there, given all of the bizarre plot twists. A stolen laptop might explain that.

That is of course any of the data does turn out to be valid...

I get that. My question is why?

What possible evidence are believers acting on? At this point in time the evidence overwhelmingly supports the conclusion this is made up crap!

You can always change that conclusion if any actual evidence surfaces. Until then, this is made up crap!

Elagabalus 21st October 2020 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogative (Post 13266085)
One of the China email recipients has issued a statement claiming the email is real and not made up by the Russians.




Link

Bobulinski sounds kind of Russian to me, he must be an agent of Russia. ******* Putin!

No, but it sounds sketchy as ****. What's with the lower case "i" in your avatar?

Skeptic Ginger 21st October 2020 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CORed (Post 13266095)
I suspect that the email about the meeting is real. I think whoever Giuliani is working with (likely Russian agents) somehow got a hold of some of Hunter Biden's emails. That particular email is nothing at all, but it is the hook they are trying to use to convince people that all the other crap is also real. They could have gotten some of Hunter's emails in a variety of ways, with a stolen laptop being a pretty likely one. I don't buy the "He brought the computer in for repair on the opposite coast from where he lives and never bothered to pick it up" story at all. It just doesn't make sense at all, that he would have the repair done in Delaware instead of California (even though Dad does live there), that he would take it to some strip mall mom and pop store, or that he wouldn't pick it up is not the least bit plausible. I suspect that all the pedophilia and child porn allegations are made up out of whole cloth.

If the highlighted were true the emails would have been on Wikileaks by now. The fact there is this absurd story about how said emails were discovered is one big fat clue: the whole thing is bogus.

Bogative 21st October 2020 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elagabalus (Post 13266101)
No, but it sounds sketchy as ****. What's with the lower case "i" in your avatar?


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12586

TahiniBinShawarma 21st October 2020 10:33 PM

Bevan Cooney emails

https://www.scribd.com/user/528185499/Matthew-Tyrmand

Gee lol

https://www.scribd.com/document/4811...iness-of-Ruski

https://www.scribd.com/document/4811...Meeting-Detail

https://www.scribd.com/document/4811...Meeting-Detail

https://www.scribd.com/document/4811...ng-the-Rubicon

https://www.scribd.com/document/4811...ney-Laundering

TahiniBinShawarma 21st October 2020 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13266102)
If the highlighted were true the emails would have been on Wikileaks by now. The fact there is this absurd story about how said emails were discovered is one big fat clue: the whole thing is bogus.


It's obvious you're freaking out LOL. There is no evidence this was anything other than what the repair man reported to the FBI months BEFORE his intermediary contacted Giuliani's attorney Costello.

The Great Zaganza 21st October 2020 11:17 PM

Something to consider if you think the laptop contains criminal material:

the way the information has come to light, via the Post through Rudy. has made it completely impossible to get any conviction for anything, even if there is clear evidence for criminal wrongdoing.
If you are at all interested in seeing any of the Biden in jail for crimes you think they have committed, you should be furious at Giuliani for giving Hunter and Joe the perfect excuse to have the evidence tossed out.

Norman Alexander 21st October 2020 11:37 PM

Look like a bunch of redacted emails from somebody to somebody else in the finance field. Scary stuff! Obviously somebody is implicated in something, because they rated a mention.

Oh, one quick Q: any chance these are NOT doctored? In any way? Hmmm?

timhau 21st October 2020 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13266143)
Something to consider if you think the laptop contains criminal material:

the way the information has come to light, via the Post through Rudy. has made it completely impossible to get any conviction for anything, even if there is clear evidence for criminal wrongdoing.
If you are at all interested in seeing any of the Biden in jail for crimes you think they have committed, you should be furious at Giuliani for giving Hunter and Joe the perfect excuse to have the evidence tossed out.

Derp State in action.

Squeegee Beckenheim 22nd October 2020 12:38 AM

Yesterday's Daily Beans podcast has an interview with Natasha Bertrand about her story which had the letter from 50 former intelligence agents saying this had the hallmarks of a Russian disinformation campaign. There's some interesting context in there.

Host Allison Gill also says that the rumours she's heard is that this is all leading up to a big revelation. Giuliani has allegedly spent the last few months building a fake paedophile ring in Eastern Europe, complete with fake arrests, that he will tie Biden to.

I have no idea as to Gill's credibility or reliability when it comes to predictions and rumours, although I do know that she's not always 100% on the known facts and she wears her bias on her sleeve, but I thought I'd mention it in case that is how the story develops in the next couple of weeks.

Squeegee Beckenheim 22nd October 2020 12:54 AM

Never mind.

Stacyhs 22nd October 2020 12:57 AM

If true, this rather puts the lie to the "Hunter left his computers at the repair shop" story:

Quote:

Hunter Biden emails were reportedly shopped around in Ukraine for $5 million, while Giuliani met with officials and businessmen there last year

The purported Hunter Biden emails shared by The New York Post last week were shopped around in Ukraine for $5 million last year, while Rudy Giuliani met with officials and businessmen there, Time Magazine reported Wednesday.

One of the people Time interviewed said they did not know whether the emails obtained by Giuliani were from the same source that approached them. But when the Post first published the story last week, they were reminded that the same information was introduced to them last year, they told Time.

A second person Time interviewed said he was offered the emails in Kyiv, Ukraine's capital, in mid-September last year. Having declined the offer, he said he was reminded of the incident when the Post published similar material. He also said the person making the offer already had a buyer in mind, and that they wanted to sell it to Trump's Republican allies, according to Time.
*
He said their asking price was $5 million, saying, "I walked away from it, because it smelled awful," Time reported.

Giuliani traveled to Europe last year, meeting with a number of officials, businessmen and former law enforcement officers from Ukraine. Despite his claims, there is no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden in Ukraine.

Time said the practice of selling or leaking private communications has become increasingly common in Ukraine over the past year, causing the government to pass a law banning it.
https://www.businessinsider.com/time...ear-5m-2020-10

Squeegee Beckenheim 22nd October 2020 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13266210)
If true, this rather puts the lie to the "Hunter left his computers at the repair shop" story:


https://www.businessinsider.com/time...ear-5m-2020-10

Yes, this was on the Daily Beans yesterday, too. IIRC, it was said that it was in fact Giuliani's pal Andreii Derkach shopping them around.

timhau 22nd October 2020 01:35 AM

Remember, it's the Steele Dossier that is a fraud. American commercially-operating intelligence companies are con artists, but you can always trust Russian organized crime to sell you the real thing.

Darat 22nd October 2020 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13266143)
Something to consider if you think the laptop contains criminal material:

the way the information has come to light, via the Post through Rudy. has made it completely impossible to get any conviction for anything, even if there is clear evidence for criminal wrongdoing.
If you are at all interested in seeing any of the Biden in jail for crimes you think they have committed, you should be furious at Giuliani for giving Hunter and Joe the perfect excuse to have the evidence tossed out.

Yeah the chain of custody is so broken I’d doubt they’d even be allowed to use the laptop as a doorstop in the courtroom.

The Don 22nd October 2020 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13266291)
Yeah the chain of custody is so broken I’d doubt they’d even be allowed to use the laptop as a doorstop in the courtroom.

The last thing that the people touting this laptop around want is for it actually to be forensically examined - it'd be laughed out of court.

Much better for it to be out there, unexamined, as a source of lies and innuendo.

shuttlt 22nd October 2020 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13266143)
Something to consider if you think the laptop contains criminal material:

the way the information has come to light, via the Post through Rudy. has made it completely impossible to get any conviction for anything, even if there is clear evidence for criminal wrongdoing.
If you are at all interested in seeing any of the Biden in jail for crimes you think they have committed, you should be furious at Giuliani for giving Hunter and Joe the perfect excuse to have the evidence tossed out.

How does the information coming to light via the NYP and Giuliani impact anything if the FBI had the laptop already? Personally, I don't think anybody of any importance is going to jail over this, or even that that is the main issue. Is this a tainted jury pool thing, or what?

The Great Zaganza 22nd October 2020 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13266299)
How does the information coming to light via the NYP and Giuliani impact anything if the FBI had the laptop already? Personally, I don't think anybody of any importance is going to jail over this, or even that that is the main issue. Is this a tainted jury pool thing, or what?

tainted jury pool, affected witnesses, chance for the perpetrators to tamper with evidence/coordinate statements (if you think that might be the case), and yes, as soon as the President tweets about a case, the Jury might as well never show up.

shuttlt 22nd October 2020 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13266291)
Yeah the chain of custody is so broken I’d doubt they’d even be allowed to use the laptop as a doorstop in the courtroom.

Really? Any trial would presumably have evidence about whether or not Hunter Biden dropped the laptop off, whether the laptop was Hunter Biden's etc.... That seems like where the questions are, and they seem like easily answerable questions. After that, I don't see how this differs from Gary Glitters laptop. Owner drops laptop off, repair person examines laptop, repair shop guy contacts authorities, repair shop guy hands laptop over to authorities. That doesn't seem like such a remarkable chain of custody. Implicit in here seems to be the assumption that at some point Biden denies that the material is genuine.

shuttlt 22nd October 2020 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13266302)
tainted jury pool, affected witnesses, chance for the perpetrators to tamper with evidence/coordinate statements (if you think that might be the case), and yes, as soon as the President tweets about a case, the Jury might as well never show up.

Honestly, I think there was no possibility of this seeing the light of day without those issues. In any case, prison time for this seems like the least important consequence.

The Great Zaganza 22nd October 2020 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13266312)
Honestly, I think there was no possibility of this seeing the light of day without those issues. In any case, prison time for this seems like the least important consequence.

So your point is that it is better to try the Bidens in the Court of Public Opinion than in an actual Court?

shuttlt 22nd October 2020 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13266317)
So your point is that it is better to try the Bidens in the Court of Public Opinion than in an actual Court?

I don't know about better. Are Trumps tax returns not being discussed in public because they should be left to the auditors? Many things are non-criminal but change our view of people. We've had years of leaks and "an anonymous source says"... Grubby as it may be, it's ridiculous to pearl clutch over this. I agree that there are real problems with people using the court of public opinion to bypass the actual courts, but in the case of politicians you'd be asking for an end to investigative journalists digging into politicians.

Susheel 22nd October 2020 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13266306)
... repair shop guy hands laptop over to authorities. ....

...Who ensured a chain of custody. Here it was intercepted and handled by an intermediary (Gulliani) who, considering his alleged expertise in law should have known better. He has tainted the evidence if there was any. And with his background in the DA he definitely knew that the "evidence" would not be admissible. We can safely say that the primary aim of this "revelation" is to just muddy the waters.

timhau 22nd October 2020 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susheel (Post 13266339)
...Who ensured a chain of custody. Here it was intercepted and handled by an intermediary (Gulliani) who, considering his alleged expertise in law should have known better. He has tainted the evidence if there was any. And with his background in the DA he definitely knew that the "evidence" would not be admissible. We can safely say that the primary aim of this "revelation" is to just muddy the waters.

Yup. The aim is to increase noise level, not unlike the various 9/11 Truther groups and their "publications" and "research".

Tero 22nd October 2020 04:17 AM

Still no evidence of a laptop other than the fake NYPost documents.

Rudy is likely to have gotten hold of faked Hunter Biden documents and any photos in Ukraine last year:
https://time.com/5902557/hunter-bide...liani-ukraine/

shuttlt 22nd October 2020 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susheel (Post 13266339)
...Who ensured a chain of custody. Here it was intercepted and handled by an intermediary (Gulliani) who, considering his alleged expertise in law should have known better. He has tainted the evidence if there was any. And with his background in the DA he definitely knew that the "evidence" would not be admissible. We can safely say that the primary aim of this "revelation" is to just muddy the waters.

I didn't think Giuliani had been involved in handing it over to the FBI. The subpoena is to the repair shop guy in December 2019. Supposedly the repair shop guy gave the copy of the hard drive to Guiliani's lawyer in September 2020. What has Guiliani got to do with any chain of custody on the laptop?

shuttlt 22nd October 2020 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tero (Post 13266345)
Still no evidence of a laptop other than the fake NYPost documents.

Rudy is likely to have gotten hold of faked Hunter Biden documents and any photos in Ukraine last year:
https://time.com/5902557/hunter-bide...liani-ukraine/

Is the theory here that the repair shop guy has forged multiple documents from the FBI including signatures of FBI agents and passing them around and the FBI haven't done anything about it? Why?

The Great Zaganza 22nd October 2020 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13266354)
Is the theory here that the repair shop guy has forged multiple documents from the FBI including signatures of FBI agents and passing them around and the FBI haven't done anything about it? Why?

My theory is that the FBI got the laptop that the Repair Shop had (from whatever source), but is not doing much about it for pretty obvious reasons.

wareyin 22nd October 2020 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13266354)
Is the theory here that the repair shop guy has forged multiple documents from the FBI including signatures of FBI agents and passing them around and the FBI haven't done anything about it? Why?

Earlier in the thread there was a link to a Twitter sleuth who examined the FBI document. The serial number of the hard drive named in the document wasn't manufactured until after the anonymous person who couldn't fake Hunter Biden's signature had supposedly dropped off the laptop. You might have missed that because of your ignore list (like you're missing this).

shuttlt 22nd October 2020 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13266364)
Earlier in the thread there was a link to a Twitter sleuth who examined the FBI document. The serial number of the hard drive named in the document wasn't manufactured until after the anonymous person who couldn't fake Hunter Biden's signature had supposedly dropped off the laptop. You might have missed that because of your ignore list (like you're missing this).

The date he believed the external drive was manufactured was April 18 2019. So before the repair guy said he coped the files. He also falsely believed that the laptop didn't have a removable SSD, and hence recovery would have been very difficult. He acknowledges he mistakes in part of the twitter thread that doesn't get screenshotted.

Darat 22nd October 2020 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13266306)
Really? Any trial would presumably have evidence about whether or not Hunter Biden dropped the laptop off, whether the laptop was Hunter Biden's etc.... That seems like where the questions are, and they seem like easily answerable questions. After that, I don't see how this differs from Gary Glitters laptop. Owner drops laptop off, repair person examines laptop, repair shop guy contacts authorities, repair shop guy hands laptop over to authorities. That doesn't seem like such a remarkable chain of custody. Implicit in here seems to be the assumption that at some point Biden denies that the material is genuine.

Very different scenarios.

shuttlt 22nd October 2020 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13266380)
Very different scenarios.

How is the chain of custody significantly different?

wareyin 22nd October 2020 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13266375)
The date he believed the external drive was manufactured was April 18 2019. So before the repair guy said he coped the files. He also falsely believed that the laptop didn't have a removable SSD, and hence recovery would have been very difficult. He acknowledges he mistakes in part of the twitter thread that doesn't get screenshotted.

So we are agreed that the FBI subpoena info you are relying on doesn't actually indicate that they have anything belonging to Hunter Biden? And your repeated attempts to claim that the FBI making no comment implies....something (?) are much more indicative of your desire to believe this story than indicative that this farcical story is true?

uke2se 22nd October 2020 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13266380)
Very different scenarios.

Not so different if you count Rudy Giuliani as "authorities". Of course, no sane person would, and it seems likely that Giuliani actually aquired this particular trove of Russian disinformation in Ukraine.

TahiniBinShawarma 22nd October 2020 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13266143)
Something to consider if you think the laptop contains criminal material:

the way the information has come to light, via the Post through Rudy. has made it completely impossible to get any conviction for anything, even if there is clear evidence for criminal wrongdoing.
If you are at all interested in seeing any of the Biden in jail for crimes you think they have committed, you should be furious at Giuliani for giving Hunter and Joe the perfect excuse to have the evidence tossed out.

Not sure why you think that given the repair guy gave it to the FBI months before his intermediary contacted Giuliani's attorney Costello.

shuttlt 22nd October 2020 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13266409)
So we are agreed that the FBI subpoena info you are relying on doesn't actually indicate that they have anything belonging to Hunter Biden? And your repeated attempts to claim that the FBI making no comment implies....something (?) are much more indicative of your desire to believe this story than indicative that this farcical story is true?

What are you talking about? You seemed to be claiming that I was missing some critical bit of evidence that the external drive that the repair guy copied the files to might not have been manufactured until the day after the laptop was dropped off with him. Where are you going with that?


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