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-   -   General UK politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346868)

Mojo 8th February 2022 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothian (Post 13725709)
Will be good to find out who the leadership was that allowed the parties in Boris's flat and elsewhere.

Nadine Dorries has made a suggestion while defending Boris:

Quote:

“What I would say is that when you lead an organisation, you are responsible,” she said.

Carrot Flower King 8th February 2022 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13726004)
Since the NHS has so obviously failed we must privatise it!

Just to take that at face value (I know, I know): who has been in charge of the NHS most of the time since I began work as a nursing assistant back in 1984? Who was responsible for the bulk of the major management changes? Who kept changing those management structures after a year or 2 without ever evaluating the efficacy of those changes? Who was responsible for consistentlyu reducing funding during that time? I could go on...

What we can conclude is that...Well, we all know what the answer to that is...

Carrot Flower King 8th February 2022 11:40 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...s-crumble-away

And I didn't spot Javid addressing any of the above either. But getting any government to take MH seriously is nigh on impossible - the last Labour lot were better than any other of my experience, but they still weren't great, just a bit better than all the useless ones.

Carrot Flower King 8th February 2022 12:08 PM

Oh, look! An ex-Tory (well, kinda) involved in harassing Starmer and spreading lies - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-resistance-gb

The last paragraph of that piece is especially telling: “It is nonsensical and alien to the concept of personal responsibility for us to be blamed for any of the tens of thousands of comments hosted by tech platforms.”

Can't blame us for spreading misinformation! The big boys did it and ran away! How exactly do you define "responsibility"?

shuttlt 8th February 2022 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13726021)
Just to take that at face value (I know, I know): who has been in charge of the NHS most of the time since I began work as a nursing assistant back in 1984? Who was responsible for the bulk of the major management changes? Who kept changing those management structures after a year or 2 without ever evaluating the efficacy of those changes? Who was responsible for consistentlyu reducing funding during that time? I could go on...

This is the nature of public services. Of course they are political footballs that do 180s in their long term plans every time the wind changes and spend vast sums only to self defeatingly tighten their belts to help get somebody elected. It's been that way since Bevan first stuffed the doctors mouths with gold. It cannot be otherwise.

a_unique_person 8th February 2022 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers (Post 13725757)
It should be known to anyone with any understanding of management, whether in or outside the NHS. Targets make people modify their behaviour to meet the target exactly as specified, rather than to improve performance in the way the target was intended to.



Dave

That's exactly what happens. Also finding the best way to circumvent a risk minimisation process.

Captain_Swoop 8th February 2022 05:11 PM

Quote:

New Housing Minister is landlord who defeated law to make homes 'fit for human habitation'
Boris Johnson made Stuart Andrew England's 11th housing minister in 12 years after Chris Pincher left following two years' service - and it quickly emerged he voted down a hotly-contested amendment in 2016

Deputy Chief Whip Stuart Andrew was today moved to Housing Minister in Boris Johnson's mini-reshuffle as part of a clearout of the whips' office.
Mr Andrew faces a bitter battle with the Tory grassroots as he and Housing Secretary Michael Gove rework controversial plans to tear up the planning system. Mr Gove shelved the plans to split areas into development loans and they're being examined again.
Edited by Agatha:  Please limit copypasta to one or two paragraphs, enclose it in quote tags and provide a link (which was provided)



https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...d-who-26172523

The slow-motion coup continues.

Captain_Swoop 8th February 2022 05:15 PM

Channel 4 News
Record breaking profits have been announced by oil giant BP. But exclusive research for this programme has revealed their north sea oil operations paid zero tax for five years.
In fact, they've actually received money from the taxpayer.

GlennB 8th February 2022 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13726325)
Channel 4 News
Record breaking profits have been announced by oil giant BP. But exclusive research for this programme has revealed their north sea oil operations paid zero tax for five years.
In fact, they've actually received money from the taxpayer.

It's OK. I despaired to the max a year or two ago.

Carrot Flower King 9th February 2022 04:22 AM

Meanwhile, BlowJob, who is happy to make statements which would be slanderous if he wasn't cowering behind parliamentary privilege, is making threats about legal action because someone wrote something far less deliberately nasty about Poor Carrie - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2010170.html

I'm sure there's a word for someone who behaves like that...

jimbob 9th February 2022 05:56 AM

Drip drip drip

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...boris-26181071

Quote:

EXCLUSIVE: New Partygate image shows Boris Johnson and open bottle of bubbly at No 10 Xmas quiz
The image shows the Prime Minister flanked by three members of staff, one wearing tinsel and another a Santa hat, at the event on December 15, 2020
Cummings says that there are more and worse

zooterkin 9th February 2022 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13726654)
Drip drip drip

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...boris-26181071



Cummings says that there are more and worse

The release was timed to be during PMQs, so BJ had no warning. Apparently someone did ask a question about the photo and he denied it existed.

Worm 9th February 2022 06:27 AM

To be fair, that question said the picture showed him 'surrounded by alcohol and food'; which is...somewhat of an overstatement.

Dave Rogers 9th February 2022 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worm (Post 13726681)
To be fair, that question said the picture showed him 'surrounded by alcohol and food'; which is...somewhat of an overstatement.

Given that there's so much to surround.

Dave

The Don 9th February 2022 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13726656)
The release was timed to be during PMQs, so BJ had no warning. Apparently someone did ask a question about the photo and he denied it existed.

IMO the problem is that this has been going on for so long that most people don't care any more. Yes Boris Johnson broke the rules and lied about breaking the rules but that's what the public expect of him.

There was an initial shock and outrage but Boris Johnson knew that if he could survive the week after the initial scoop, then people wouldn't care any more.

There could be a picture of Boris Johnson taking a dump on Captain Tom's grave and the response from the right wing press, the majority of the Conservative Party and the majority of the British electorate would be "Poor Boris, getting caught short like that...." :mad:


edited to add....

Poking at this a little more..

Quote:

People in the "real world" don't care about parties held in Downing Street during lockdown, the new leader of the House of Commons has said.

Mark Spencer stuck by comments he made in December, when he said Prime Minister Boris Johnson "will not have lied" about the gatherings.

But he told BBC Radio Nottingham "what really mattered" to people was their energy bills, NHS backlogs and jobs.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60318610

I think he's right about people not caring but of course the Conservatives won't do anything to address what "really matters" either - just make things much, much worse.

Captain_Swoop 9th February 2022 08:05 AM

Northerners should accept lower wages because 'London is London', top Rishi Sunak aide says
Tim Leunig said “the only way towns and cities that are less well connected can compete to attract firms is to accept lower wages".

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...wages-23031350

The Don 9th February 2022 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13726809)
Northerners should accept lower wages because 'London is London', top Rishi Sunak aide says
Tim Leunig said “the only way towns and cities that are less well connected can compete to attract firms is to accept lower wages".

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...wages-23031350

I sort of get it, living costs outside London are lower so companies outside London could ensure that their employees have a similar, or even higher, standard of living whilst paying lower salaries.

However, he goes on to say:

Quote:

It reads: “We cannot, with the best will in the world, move JP Morgan to Blackburn, or Deutsche Bank to Sunderland."
Why not ?

One of the largest IT companies in the world is based in a tiny village in Baden-Württemberg and Omaha manages to be a financial services hub.

Wudang 9th February 2022 09:40 AM

Perhaps the lower density of Michelin starred restaurants?

MarkCorrigan 9th February 2022 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worm (Post 13725725)
The Haunted Pencil (JR-M) appointed "Minister for Brexit Opportunities and Government Efficiency" whatever the hell that means. Talk about made-up job titles.

"The Haunted Pencil"? :D

Wudang 9th February 2022 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan (Post 13727080)
"The Haunted Pencil"? :D

I also liked Chris Brookmyre's "steampunk C3PO".

Captain_Swoop 9th February 2022 11:39 AM

Boris Johnson's ethics chief is investigating the Prime Minister's new Commons Leader over racism allegations, it has emerged.

The former Chief Whip was handed a promotion in Tuesday's reshuffle, when it was already known he was at the centre of a Cabinet Office probe into claims made by Tory MP Nusrat Ghani that she was sacked because of her "Muslimness".

Now Mr Spencer, who will begin attending the Prime Minister's Cabinet meetings in his new role, has confirmed ethics chief Lord Geidt - whose job it is to probe breaches of the Ministerial Code - is investigating him.
Ms Ghani said last month that she was told by the then-Chief Whip she was sacked as Transport Minister in 2021 because her Muslim faith "had been raised as an issue” and made colleagues uncomfortable.

The Commons Leader - who is responsible for representing backbenchers and upholding standards in parliament - identified himself as the whip involved in Ms Ghani's complaint, but denied the claims, which he said were false and “defamatory”.
No10 originally claimed a broader Cabinet Office probe would "establish the facts" but Mr Spencer himself has now confirmed Lord Geidt is leading the probe.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...ating-26183040


Well, that didn't take long.

Boris is like Trump, everything he touches turns to ****.

jimbob 9th February 2022 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wudang (Post 13727082)
I also liked Chris Brookmyre's "steampunk C3PO".

THAT was the one I had been trying to recall. Thanks.

My girlfriend likes "haunted pencil"

jimbob 9th February 2022 11:41 AM

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/b...y-b981697.html

Looks like the new party on 15th December is now going to be investigated by police

Quote:

The development suggests the latest image to surface was not among more than 300 passed to officers by the Whitehall investigation, and adds to the pressure on Mr Johnson after major Tory donor John Armitage suggested his leadership is past the point of no return.

It was the virtual quiz apparently

Darat 9th February 2022 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13726725)
...snip...


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60318610

I think he's right about people not caring but of course the Conservatives won't do anything to address what "really matters" either - just make things much, much worse.

Scurrilous lie!

They have already fixed the NHS problem - had headlines yesterday and today, energy prices - that was solved with £200 quid each headlines, and jobs... well 2/3 headlines isn't bad. (I'm sure they can announce some target to deal with the jobs problem and get a good headline or two.)

See all fixed. And if it isn't fixed that is because of the mess labour made of everything when they were in power a couple of years ago....

Darat 9th February 2022 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13726893)
I sort of get it, living costs outside London are lower so companies outside London could ensure that their employees have a similar, or even higher, standard of living whilst paying lower salaries.

However, he goes on to say:

Why not ?

One of the largest IT companies in the world is based in a tiny village in Baden-Württemberg and Omaha manages to be a financial services hub.

If any government really wanted to "level up" the country they would relocate all the major government departments to different places around England (and the UK) and only leave the FO in London.

The Don 9th February 2022 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13727121)
If any government really wanted to "level up" the country they would relocate all the major government departments to different places around England (and the UK) and only leave the FO in London.

I think Sir Humphrey dealt with that in a series of documentaries I saw back in the day.

Captain_Swoop 9th February 2022 12:34 PM

Michael Fabricant tweeted
@Mike_Fabricant
The Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is head of the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) with personal responsibility for its 7,000 staff and approximately 800,000 prosecutions undertaken by it every year - and for decisions NOT to prosecute.

Quote Tweet
Molly Giles
@mollygiles2015
Sorry but this is a game changer. I hadn’t appreciated that, from the dispatch box, Keir has repeatedly used his time at the DPP as evidence of his success and leadership skills. Pointing out the failures is therefore totally fair game. Absolutely no apology is necessary.

GlennB 9th February 2022 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13727166)
Michael Fabricant tweeted
@Mike_Fabricant
The Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is head of the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) with personal responsibility for its 7,000 staff and approximately 800,000 prosecutions undertaken by it every year - and for decisions NOT to prosecute.

Quote Tweet
Molly Giles
@mollygiles2015
Sorry but this is a game changer. I hadn’t appreciated that, from the dispatch box, Keir has repeatedly used his time at the DPP as evidence of his success and leadership skills. Pointing out the failures is therefore totally fair game. Absolutely no apology is necessary.

It will come as no surprise to find that he's lying.

"He was not the reviewing lawyer in charge of probing the Savile allegations."


Reuters fact check


etc...

Trebuchet 9th February 2022 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13727093)
Boris Johnson's ethics chief is investigating the Prime Minister's new Commons Leader over racism allegations, it has emerged.

The former Chief Whip was handed a promotion in Tuesday's reshuffle, when it was already known he was at the centre of a Cabinet Office probe into claims made by Tory MP Nusrat Ghani that she was sacked because of her "Muslimness".

Now Mr Spencer, who will begin attending the Prime Minister's Cabinet meetings in his new role, has confirmed ethics chief Lord Geidt - whose job it is to probe breaches of the Ministerial Code - is investigating him.
Ms Ghani said last month that she was told by the then-Chief Whip she was sacked as Transport Minister in 2021 because her Muslim faith "had been raised as an issue” and made colleagues uncomfortable.

The Commons Leader - who is responsible for representing backbenchers and upholding standards in parliament - identified himself as the whip involved in Ms Ghani's complaint, but denied the claims, which he said were false and “defamatory”.
No10 originally claimed a broader Cabinet Office probe would "establish the facts" but Mr Spencer himself has now confirmed Lord Geidt is leading the probe.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...ating-26183040


Well, that didn't take long.

Boris is like Trump, everything he touches turns to ****.

And none of it seems to stick.

The Don 9th February 2022 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 13727534)
And none of it seems to stick.

For anything to stick you need a conscience and the concept of shame. Boris Johnson lacks the former and doesn't understand the latter.

P.J. Denyer 10th February 2022 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_unique_person (Post 13725659)
He's gotta paaaarrrrtttyyyyyy.

I wake up late for PMQs & I don't want to go
I ask Rees-Mogg "Please?" but he still says "No!"
I miss Keir Starmer but not Blackford
& The Speaker wants answers like I'm some kind of nerd

I gotta fight
To retain
My Paaaaarty!

Cos my wife
Was in sight
At my Paaarties!

I mean work meetings, or so I've been assured.. Cressss!!!!!!!!...... (Guitar outro)

Captain_Swoop 10th February 2022 03:52 AM

David Lammy tweeted
@DavidLammy
I have been granted an urgent question on the government’s reported failure to bring the sanctions legislation it promised to the House by today.

Strong rhetoric against Vladimir Putin’s aggression must be matched by the credible threat of sanctions.

UK House of Commons
@HouseofCommons
Also confirmed:
• Urgent question from @DavidLammy: "To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs if she will make a statement on the status of the Russian sanctions legislation the government said would be put in place by 10th February."

Captain_Swoop 10th February 2022 03:54 AM

It's a mystery...

businessinsider.com
14 ministers in Johnson's government and two MPs on the Intelligence & Security committee have had donations from Russians with ties to the Kremlin.

Carrot Flower King 10th February 2022 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13727166)
Michael Fabricant tweeted
@Mike_Fabricant
The Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) is head of the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) with personal responsibility for its 7,000 staff and approximately 800,000 prosecutions undertaken by it every year - and for decisions NOT to prosecute.

Quote Tweet
Molly Giles
@mollygiles2015
Sorry but this is a game changer. I hadn’t appreciated that, from the dispatch box, Keir has repeatedly used his time at the DPP as evidence of his success and leadership skills. Pointing out the failures is therefore totally fair game. Absolutely no apology is necessary.

The Prime Minister, by that standard is responsible for EVERYTHING done by government...C'mon Mickey Fab (as Hoggart was wont to call him) when are you holding the PM responsible for EVERYTHING!

Darat 10th February 2022 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13727708)
It's a mystery...

businessinsider.com
14 ministers in Johnson's government and two MPs on the Intelligence & Security committee have had donations from Russians with ties to the Kremlin.

Only 2 on the committee? I'd have expected better from Putin.

The Don 10th February 2022 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13727721)
Only 2 on the committee? I'd have expected better from Putin.

Only 2 where the Russians haven't bothered to cover their tracks well enough, as for the rest .......

Captain_Swoop 10th February 2022 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13727734)
Only 2 where the Russians haven't bothered to cover their tracks well enough, as for the rest .......

If only there had been a government investigation and report in to it all.

Darat 10th February 2022 04:37 AM

Thankfully there is a hyphen in the address of the link: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/09/cressida-dick-faces-threat-of-public-declaration-of-no-confidence-from-london-mayor


Quote:

...snip... Dick would be expected to resign as commissioner of the Metropolitan police if she loses the confidence of London’s mayor, Whitehall and City Hall sources said on Wednesday, with the Conservative government making no attempt to save her.

...snip...
What a surprise, she allows an investigation to start into criminal acts claimed to have taken place in Downing Street and suddenly she loses the support of the Conservatives.

Captain_Swoop 10th February 2022 05:40 AM

Andrea Leadsom MP tweeted
@andrealeadsom
· 3h
Unbelievable reporting by @BBCr4today about Scargill and Miners strike. Talk about left wing bias! Scargill obviously one of @bbcnickrobinson ‘s hero. His tone on Margaret Thatcher says it all. BBC neutral? I don’t think so




(Nick Robinson was the president of Oxford University's Conservative Association and Chairman of the National Young Conservatives.)

The Don 10th February 2022 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13727785)
Andrea Leadsom MP tweeted
@andrealeadsom
· 3h
Unbelievable reporting by @BBCr4today about Scargill and Miners strike. Talk about left wing bias! Scargill obviously one of @bbcnickrobinson ‘s hero. His tone on Margaret Thatcher says it all. BBC neutral? I don’t think so




(Nick Robinson was the president of Oxford University's Conservative Association and Chairman of the National Young Conservatives.)

....and by today's standards a Conservative of the late '70s or early '80s would be a raving leftie.

Any opportunity to have a dig at the BBC. The Conservatives won't be happy until all media outlets are in the hands of Tory-supporting billionaires.


Mod Info Thread continued here
Posted By:jimbob


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