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-   -   The Johnny Depp/Amber Heard thing (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307772)

Ziggurat 1st June 2022 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13822969)
Worst thing about this verdict is that it's will empower those who want to put Woman back in their place.

:rolleyes:

dudalb 1st June 2022 01:05 PM

The worst thing about his is the way people took sides based not on evidence but on who they were a fan of.
God, I hate what fandom has become:bliind tribalism.

Ziggurat 1st June 2022 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13822969)
Worst thing about this verdict is that it's will empower those who want to put Woman back in their place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13822977)
The worst thing about his is the way people took sides based not on evidence but on who they were a fan of.
God, I hate what fandom has become:bliind tribalism.

You're doing a bit, aren't you? OK, what's the next one?

johnny karate 1st June 2022 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13822975)
I don;t think this will somehow "Save" Depp's career as a leading man.
That was pretty much over before this whole mess broke;he simply could not put fannies in the seat in any movie where he was not Jack Sparrow, and now he is too old for the role.
Yes, he will get parts, but I doubt they will be leading roles, and he probably won't be getting the money he used to get.
Heard's career is pretty much over also. not that she was ever really A list;she was never a box office draw the way Depp at one point was.

Prediction: This verdict won't rehabilitate Depp's career in any meaningful way.

His career tanked because a) he became an erratic and unreliable prima donna with drug and alcohol addiction issues, and b) his box office power waned after a string of flops made him no longer worth the trouble.

This verdict or anything that happened during the course of the trial changes any of that.

SuburbanTurkey 1st June 2022 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13822964)
She wasn't violently abused. Actual violent abuse looks very different. Go look up some of the pictures of Rihanna from when Chris Brown beat her up. That's what violent abuse looks like. Heard never, ever experienced anything like that from Depp.

This is the second time you've cited that example. If you're definition of domestic abuse uses that as the baseline, an case where the victim was covered in bruises, you're excusing a lot of abuse that isn't so severe. I guess if it doesn't leave a mark it's not abuse, or maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.

SuburbanTurkey 1st June 2022 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13822982)
Prediction: This verdict won't rehabilitate Depp's career in any meaningful way.

His career tanked because a) he became an erratic and unreliable prima donna with drug and alcohol addiction issues, and b) his box office power waned after a string of flops made him no longer worth the trouble.

This verdict or anything that happened during the course of the trial changes any of that.

I'm guessing having a big public spectacle in which his drug and booze fueled knock-down, drag out fights with his wife play a big role probably won't help that image.

Even if you take a very slanted view of things, Depp comes out looking like a total addict getting taken advantage of by a wicked woman. Not exactly the paragon of stability.

Ziggurat 1st June 2022 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13822993)
This is the second time you've cited that example. If you're definition of domestic abuse uses that as the baseline, an case where the victim was covered in bruises, you're excusing a lot of abuse that isn't so severe. I guess if it doesn't leave a mark it's not abuse, or maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.

You definitely didn't understand my point. I'm not claiming that it's not abuse if it doesn't leave a mark, I'm pointing out that the kind of abuse she claimed occurred WOULD leave a mark.

Emotional abuse is absolutely a thing, but Heard didn't limit her claims to emotional abuse. And her claims of physical abuse were pretty extreme. She claims Depp didn't just slap her, or shove her. She claims he BEAT her, repeatedly. And Rihanna's face is what it looks like when a man actually beats a woman.

Dani 1st June 2022 01:39 PM

Depp could go back to that more specific niche, a bit closer to what some would call film d'auteur.

I've never been a fan of Depp as an actor (and I don't think he ever had a "love affair" with the camera comparable to McQueen or Cooper), but I really liked the way he chose his film roles until the late 90's or so.

Maybe it's too late for him and he doesn't care anyway.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13822994)
I'm guessing having a big public spectacle in which his drug and booze fueled knock-down, drag out fights with his wife play a big role probably won't help that image.

Even if you take a very slanted view of things, Depp comes out looking like a total addict getting taken advantage of by a wicked woman. Not exactly the paragon of stability.

I think it had less to do with anything involving Amber and was more about his on-set behavior, showing up late or not at all, not being prepared, ridiculous demands, etc.

Hollywood can forgive all sorts of transgressions as long as you show up on time, hit your marks, and, most importantly, make them money. Depp stopped doing all three.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dani (Post 13823015)
Depp could go back to that more specific niche, a bit closer to what some would call film d'auteur.

I've never been a fan of Depp as an actor (and I don't think he ever had a "love affair" with the camera comparable to McQueen or Cooper), but I really liked the way he chose his film roles until the late 90's or so.

Maybe it's too late for him and he doesn't care anyway.

His career has basically gone back to that by default. His last few movies were all independent or smaller releases. It's not that he can't get work. He can. What he has been unable to do recently is get major studios to trust him with their $200-$300 million tentpole franchises, and that's no one's fault but his own.

shuttlt 1st June 2022 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13823025)
I think it had less to do with anything involving Amber and was more about his on-set behavior, showing up late or not at all, not being prepared, ridiculous demands, etc.

Hollywood can forgive all sorts of transgressions as long as you show up on time, hit your marks, and, most importantly, make them money. Depp stopped doing all three.

He'd got the Harry Potter prequel role when she dropped the article. The last Pirates of the Caribbean movie made money. He was still starring in big movies. None of them were great works of art, but he was still bringing in money.

Tim Burton kept casting him. Supposedly his comeback movie is going to be Beetlejuice 2.

IsThisTheLife 1st June 2022 02:05 PM

Amber Heard, statement

Quote:

The disappointment I feel today is beyond words. Iím heartbroken that the mountain of evidence still was not enough to stand up to the disproportionate power, influence and sway of my ex-husband.

Iím even more disappointed with what this verdict means for other women. It is a setback. It sets back the clock to a time when a woman who spoke up and spoke out could be publicly shamed and humiliated. It sets back the idea that violence against women is to be taken seriously.

I believe Johnnyís attorneys succeeded in getting the jury to overlook the key issue of Freedom of Speech and ignore evidence that was so conclusive that we won in the UK.

Iím sad I lost this case, But I am sadder still that I seem to have lost a right I thought I had as an American ó to speak freely and openly.
Yeh, right.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13823034)
He'd got the Harry Potter prequel role when she dropped the article. The last Pirates of the Caribbean movie made money. He was still starring in big movies. None of them were great works of art, but he was still bringing in money.

It sounds more impressive than it is when you leave out all the big-budget flops and ignore the behavior that led Disney to drop him from the Pirates franchise.

Quote:

Tim Burton kept casting him. Supposedly his comeback movie is going to be Beetlejuice 2.
He hasn't stopped making movies, so "comeback movie" isn't the right choice of words. It might be his return to a big(ish) budget studio movie, but it would be at best a supporting role. And that's assuming that his role - or even the movie - ever materializes.

theprestige 1st June 2022 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13823027)
His career has basically gone back to that by default. His last few movies were all independent or smaller releases. It's not that he can't get work. He can. What he has been unable to do recently is get major studios to trust him with their $200-$300 million tentpole franchises, and that's no one's fault but his own.

And it's also something that predates this controversy. People were already over the Depp-Burton Co-Prosperity Sphere, and the flanderization of Jack Sparrow.

Counter-example: John Travolta had some dry spells and bad patches over the course of his career. Yet he still managed to come back and keep getting work. Good work, even.

Now, if Heard had won this thing? If good evidence of physical abuse by Depp had been presented? Then his career would be sunk. Any momentum he might have generated, convincing producers and audiences that he was through his Uncanny Valley phase, would have been drained away by the scandal.

But what ended up happening is that the controversy turned into a scandal not for him, but for Heard. This greatly improves his chances of making some kind of comeback. I'm not saying it's guaranteed. I just don't think this trial is such a huge loss for him.

dudalb 1st June 2022 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13822982)
Prediction: This verdict won't rehabilitate Depp's career in any meaningful way.

His career tanked because a) he became an erratic and unreliable prima donna with drug and alcohol addiction issues, and b) his box office power waned after a string of flops made him no longer worth the trouble.

This verdict or anything that happened during the course of the trial changes any of that.

His career faded because audiences got tired of his "Look at me! Look at how wierd I am" act outside of Jack Sparrow.
And Disney is not showing much interest in a Pirates 6 at this point. The last five years have taken a huge toll on Depp physically. The booze and the drugs caught up with him. Don't think he could carry off Sparrow for a whole film in the lead anyway.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13823040)
And it's also something that predates this controversy. People were already over the Depp-Burton Co-Prosperity Sphere, and the flanderization of Jack Sparrow.

Counter-example: John Travolta had some dry spells and bad patches over the course of his career. Yet he still managed to come back and keep getting work. Good work, even.

Now, if Heard had won this thing? If good evidence of physical abuse by Depp had been presented? Then his career would be sunk. Any momentum he might have generated, convincing producers and audiences that he was through his Uncanny Valley phase, would have been drained away by the scandal.

But what ended up happening is that the controversy turned into a scandal not for him, but for Heard. This greatly improves his chances of making some kind of comeback. I'm not saying it's guaranteed. I just don't think this trial is such a huge loss for him.

Well, it's obviously not a loss for him. I'm just saying that it doesn't change the calculus on why his career ended up where it did.

The closest parallel I can think of offhand is Robert Downey Jr. After his addiction problems burned a lot of bridges for him in Hollywood, he spent years rehabilitating himself by taking smaller roles in smaller movies, proving that he could be reliable, professional, and do good work. This lead to him getting Iron Man (which Marvel and Disney adamantly opposed), and that catapulted him onto the A List.

The difference is that Downey Jr. actually made the effort to change his behavior. It remains to be seen if Depp will do the same, but nothing will improve for him until it does.

In terms of his career, this verdict isn't going to do a whole lot for him.

dudalb 1st June 2022 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dani (Post 13823015)
Depp could go back to that more specific niche, a bit closer to what some would call film d'auteur.

I've never been a fan of Depp as an actor (and I don't think he ever had a "love affair" with the camera comparable to McQueen or Cooper), but I really liked the way he chose his film roles until the late 90's or so.

Maybe it's too late for him and he doesn't care anyway.

Someone said that POTC was both the best and worst thing to have happened to Depp. It made him a big box office draw...which he had never really been before and made him a rich man....but he lost all interest in being an serious actor, and just did his Wierdo shtick until audiences got sick of it except for Sparrow. His comeback as a serous actor "Black Mass" was a flop.
The problem with the Depp fanboys is for them it is still 2005 and Depp is the still the coolest man alive.
As for Heard she was never really A list..she could never put fannies in the seats on her name along....and now she never will be.

dudalb 1st June 2022 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13823045)
Well, it's obviously not a loss for him. I'm just saying that it doesn't change the calculus on why his career ended up where it did.

The closest parallel I can think of offhand is Robert Downey Jr. After his addiction problems burned a lot of bridges for him in Hollywood, he spent years rehabilitating himself by taking smaller roles in smaller movies, proving that he could be reliable, professional, and do good work. This lead to him getting Iron Man (which Marvel and Disney adamantly opposed), and that catapulted him onto the A List.

The difference is that Downey Jr. actually made the effort to change his behavior. It remains to be seen if Depp will do the same, but nothing will improve for him until it does.

In terms of his career, this verdict isn't going to do a whole lot for him.

I think Ezra Miller is going down that same path with his facing Felony Assualt charges in Hawaii.
I got a feeling DC is going to find a new Flash in the near future.

dudalb 1st June 2022 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13822994)
I'm guessing having a big public spectacle in which his drug and booze fueled knock-down, drag out fights with his wife play a big role probably won't help that image.

Even if you take a very slanted view of things, Depp comes out looking like a total addict getting taken advantage of by a wicked woman. Not exactly the paragon of stability.

And People got bored by his whole "Look at how wierd I am " shtick.
It's like he sold his soul as an actor for his sucess as Jack Sparrow.
As for stablity, his going through 200 Million dollars so quickly shows he is not exactly the most stable person in the world.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13823044)
His career faded because audiences got tired of his "Look at me! Look at how wierd I am" act outside of Jack Sparrow.
And Disney is not showing much interest in a Pirates 6 at this point. The last five years have taken a huge toll on Depp physically. The booze and the drugs caught up with him. Don't think he could carry off Sparrow for a whole film in the lead anyway.

Disney is actually developing the sixth Pirates movie with Margot Robbie in the lead. That's how much Depp screwed the pooch. Disney is moving forward on their billion-dollar franchise without the actor who created the iconic role that anchored it because of how intolerable his behavior was during the filming of the last one.

dudalb 1st June 2022 02:37 PM

ANd, for the record, making Heard some kind of poster for abused women was not a good idea. I am not saying she was not abused, but I think making such a flawed person your mascot was a mistake.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13823051)
I think Ezra Miller is going down that same path with his facing Felony Assualt charges in Hawaii.
I got a feeling DC is going to find a new Flash in the near future.

Miller was never a star to begin with, so sweeping him into he dustbin of Hollywood won't be too much trouble. The problem Warner Bros. has is that The Flash is already in the can, and their star is getting increasingly more toxic.

dudalb 1st June 2022 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13823054)
Disney is actually developing the sixth Pirates movie with Margot Robbie in the lead. That's how much Depp screwed the pooch. Disney is moving forward on their billion-dollar franchise without the actor who created the iconic role that anchored it because of how intolerable his behavior was during the filming of the last one.

Yeah if there is a sixth Pirates movie, Depp will make a sort of guest appreance a la Keith Richards in Pirates 3, and that will be it.
No doubt Robbie is a hot comedity in the Hollywood..take that any way you want. Already Oscar rumors about her as Clara Bow in the upcoming "Babylon" a drama about Hollywood from 1925 to 1952.
BTW I think she was superb in "I, Tonya" as Tonya Harding.Underrated film. They played it as black comedy, which was the right choice.

dudalb 1st June 2022 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13823058)
Miller was never a star to begin with, so sweeping him into he dustbin of Hollywood won't be too much trouble. The problem Warner Bros. has is that The Flash is already in the can, and their star is getting increasingly more toxic.

Ironically The Flash:Flashpoint movie is like the recent Dr Strange movie; whole plot is built around the Multiverse, which will make it very easy for Warners to replace him.....

dudalb 1st June 2022 02:45 PM

It is sad since in the 1990's Depp seemed to be on the verge of becoming a truly great actor.
I still think his best performance was as Ed Wood in the Tim Burton film of the same name. I also think it's Burton's best film.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13823059)
Yeah if there is a sixth Pirates movie, Depp will make a sort of guest appreance a la Keith Richards in Pirates 3, and that will be it.
No doubt Robbie is a hot comedity in the Hollywood..take that any way you want. Already Oscar rumors about her as Clara Bow in the upcoming "Babylon" a drama about Hollywood from 1925 to 1952.
BTW I think she was superb in "I, Tonya" as Tonya Harding.Underrated film. They played it as black comedy, which was the right choice.

I seriously doubt that Depp will make an appearance in the next Pirates movie.

Dr. Keith 1st June 2022 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13823059)
Yeah if there is a sixth Pirates movie, Depp will make a sort of guest appreance a la Keith Richards in Pirates 3, and that will be it.
No doubt Robbie is a hot comedity in the Hollywood..take that any way you want. Already Oscar rumors about her as Clara Bow in the upcoming "Babylon" a drama about Hollywood from 1925 to 1952.
BTW I think she was superb in "I, Tonya" as Tonya Harding.Underrated film. They played it as black comedy, which was the right choice.

Donít hold your breath. Depp wouldnít do that cameo for less than $50 million.

IsThisTheLife 1st June 2022 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13823054)
Disney is actually developing the sixth Pirates movie with Margot Robbie in the lead. That's how much Depp screwed the pooch. Disney is moving forward on their billion-dollar franchise without the actor who created the iconic role that anchored it because of how intolerable his behavior was during the filming of the last one.

Says Disney. And they would, wouldn't they? But you believe them, because you would, wouldn't you? Depp made them literally $10's of billions and the ingrates thanked him by ... ?

I assume you believe Warner also declared that they'd never hire him again because ...?? Well, you tell me.

IsThisTheLife 1st June 2022 02:54 PM

Form what I gather Depp has already told Disney they can kiss his ****.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife (Post 13823073)
Says Disney. And they would, wouldn't they? But you believe them, because you would, wouldn't you? Depp made them literally $10's of billions and the ingrates thanked him by ... ?

Firing him for not doing his job. That's how it works at pretty much every level of employment.

I guess he should have made more of an effort to show up on time and learn his lines.

Quote:

I assume you believe Warner also declared that they'd never hire him again because ...?? Well, you tell me.
I am not aware of the status of Depp's current relationship with Warner Bros.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife (Post 13823074)
Form what I gather Depp has already told Disney they can kiss his ****.

He really showed them.

shuttlt 1st June 2022 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13823064)
It is sad since in the 1990's Depp seemed to be on the verge of becoming a truly great actor.
I still think his best performance was as Ed Wood in the Tim Burton film of the same name. I also think it's Burton's best film.

I think what Depp was good at was always very specific, particularly in terms of the tone of the movies he suited. He was a specialist in otherworldly, somewhat detached people, or cartoonish pantomimes. How many times has he played something else and been good? Has there been a movie that has been carried on his ability to convey human emotion? Maybe Gilbert Grape? Even then he's kind of otherworldly and detached.

dudalb 1st June 2022 03:15 PM

I just saw the disgusting behavior of the Depp fans outside the courtroom.
God, i am now convinced that fandom has become truly toxic, and it is only a matter of time before some fan kill somebody over fan BS.

dudalb 1st June 2022 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13823082)
Firing him for not doing his job. That's how it works at pretty much every level of employment.

I guess he should have made more of an effort to show up on time and learn his lines.



I am not aware of the status of Depp's current relationship with Warner Bros.

Nothing since they fired him from the Fantastic Beast franchise.

dudalb 1st June 2022 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife (Post 13823073)
Says Disney. And they would, wouldn't they? But you believe them, because you would, wouldn't you? Depp made them literally $10's of billions and the ingrates thanked him by ... ?

I assume you believe Warner also declared that they'd never hire him again because ...?? Well, you tell me.

That was then, this is now. Depp has not made a hit movie in a long,long time. If you don't bring in the bucks, you don't get the big paychecks.
But you worship him since he put a woman back in her place...totally suberviant to a man, the way it should be in your eyes.

dudalb 1st June 2022 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13823087)
I think what Depp was good at was always very specific, particularly in terms of the tone of the movies he suited. He was a specialist in otherworldly, somewhat detached people, or cartoonish pantomimes. How many times has he played something else and been good? Has there been a movie that has been carried on his ability to convey human emotion? Maybe Gilbert Grape? Even then he's kind of otherworldly and detached.

Watch "Danny Broscoe" where Depp gives a good stright performance without any of his usual gimmicks.
It's Al Pacino who has the showy part in that one.

dudalb 1st June 2022 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13823084)
He really showed them.

Yeah, let bite the hand that fed you for so long. Great move.

Bob001 1st June 2022 03:29 PM

Here is Amber Heard's essay, the basis for Depp's suit. It begins:
Quote:

I was exposed to abuse at a very young age. I knew certain things early on, without ever having to be told. I knew that men have the power ó physically, socially and financially ó and that a lot of institutions support that arrangement. I knew this long before I had the words to articulate it, and I bet you learned it young, too.

Like many women, I had been harassed and sexually assaulted by the time I was of college age. But I kept quiet ó I did not expect filing complaints to bring justice. And I didnít see myself as a victim.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...c36_story.html

She never said a word about Depp, or identified him as an abuser in any way. She wrote about a lifetime of abuse. People who knew the two of them might well have suspected that, as her ex-husband, he might be one of the men she means. But she never says so, or encourages the reader to reach that conclusion. If Depp had said nothing, or if he had made some inconsequential statement along the lines of "I wish Amber success in her important endeavor," there would have been no issue, certainly no trial. But for him to jump up and say "When she's talking about all those evil abusers, she must mean me!," he brought himself more attention and publicity than Heard ever could have.

So then the question becomes whether Heard was correct to perceive herself as abused. That's her decision to make. This guy is a notorious, erratic drunk and drunk abuser. If he punched her or slapped her or shoved her or threatened her even once during their years of marriage, or if never touched her but abused her emotionally, she gets to decide that she felt abused. It doesn't matter whether someone thinks she should feel that way, or whether somebody else in the same boat would feel the same way.

In order to convict Depp, the jury had to find that:
1/ Heard's essay was defamatory against Depp;
2/ Every one of her allegations at trial was entirely false;
3/ She knew her allegations were false and made them with malice;
4/ Depp suffered measurable loss to his reputation and career prospects.

I don't see how they reached their verdict. I particularly don't see how her essay (and that's the sole issue here) damaged his already declining reputation. I suspect she might well have exaggerated his behavior at the trial and that he minimized it. I wonder if "less is more" might have been a more effective strategy. I wonder how it might have gone if the defense had simply been "I never said a word about Johnny Depp, and I'm not responsible for anybody else's speculation." But his career didn't tank because she wrote a column.

dudalb 1st June 2022 03:36 PM

Heard receiving death threats from Depp fans.
Maybe it won't be a long time before a fanboy kills somebody over some fan BS.

shuttlt 1st June 2022 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13823097)
Watch "Danny Broscoe" where Depp gives a good stright performance without any of his usual gimmicks.
It's Al Pacino who has the showy part in that one.

I've seen it. You are right, it is probably the best counter-example. Maybe it's just that he's played the same role so many times that I struggle to buy him in anything else. It comes across to me like Keanu Reeves when he tries to do something more serious.


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