A pretense is when you do something like post irrelevant pictures in a thread and attempt to contrive a paper thin excuse for why they are relevant. This thread has a great example.
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That said, I still think Franken should be censured, but I believe calls for him to step down are premature, pending an ethics investigation. |
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Yes. And I thought I had made that distinction. The "it" I referred to was the imagery. Apologies if I was not sufficiently clear. |
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But just think of the possibilities inherent in an all-woman government. Imagine president Sarah Palin and vice-president Jan Brewer, with Michele Bachman as attorney general, and Kellyanne Conway of course is the obvious choice for chief strategist and advisor. And if that's not inspiring enough, picture Carly Fiorina as senate majority leader; and even better, we could get Condoleezza Rice to reprise her award-winning role as secretary of state. Don't forget Ann Coulter, who would be the obvious choice as speaker of the house, and Sarah Huckabee Sanders as press secretary. Truly, a brave new world. :rolleyes: |
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So far, he is on a good course on both criteria, but certainly not through. At least he hasn't wrecked his credibility yet with reckless denials and counter accusations. |
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Which, for the record, is not me saying any given accuser is lying. Further, it's not as if we didn't know these sorts of things haven't always been happening, because they have been. All I am wondering is why it seems to all be coming out now? |
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It sounds like trying to have it both ways. |
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It could also be as PhantomWolf suggests, that the dam just broke. I think a lot of dams are either breaking or close to it. |
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If it turns out all Franken did was perform an inappropriate joke, and there's no indication that this is an ongoing problematic behavior, I think he should be censured for the trangression he did make, but that it would be too much to remove him. If an investigation turns out that this is ongoing and problematic, he should be removed. |
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In Sweden, we have daily news stories about workrelated sexual abuse on an institutional level. Several "federal departments" (because we don't call them that here) are under close scrutiny. Yesterday, an open letter from around 5000 legal professionals told about sexual abuse goings on in various courthouses and law firms around the country. Today it's the armed forces' turn. |
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If I took a picture like that with an unwilling coworker, I'd get the sack for sure. |
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She worked at Hooters, open season on Hooters girls. Reelect Al Franken |
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Back in the 1950s, EC Comics published a story in one of their science fiction comics. A woman decided to run for President as an independent. It was treated as a joke, until women decided to vote for her instead of who their husbands told them to vote for (gasp!). She won, to the horror of the establishment. First, they tried to have the Supreme Court declare her ineligible, but the Justices' wives wouldn't let them, except for the one unmarried Justice. Then, they planned to amend the Constitution to specify that the President could only be a man, but by then she had inspired other women to run for office across the country, and they had won, so they realized it would never pass. This then caused a complete reversal of society, and the rest of the story was depictions of various 1950s gender stereotypes, but with the male and female roles reversed. Women getting upset about their father-in-laws coming to live with them. Female executives calling their husbands to say they were working late, while their male secretaries sat on their laps giggling. Men trying to get out of traffic tickets by flirting with female police officers. Heroic female firefighters rescuing helpless men from burning buildings. Men getting upset because their wives aren't buying them the new kitchen appliances that their neighbors have. When a war broke out, men were encouraged to take factory jobs so the women could go and fight. |
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"Hazing," has a different connotation than simple collegiate hijinks. |
Why are progs so excited about Franken submitting to the ethics committee of an organization that pays out millions of dollars in secret harassment claims on behalf of its members?
"Hey! You've been molesting the chickens! What do you have to say for yourself?" "I humbly place my fate in the hands of the foxes that run this henhouse." |
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And Moore isn't a Senator. Yet, anyhow. If he gets elected I'll change the way I phrased my question. |
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Going by the latest reporting, it's very much a case of a lot of dams breaking. Mostly it has been started by women who were past the point of having their careers negatively impacted by coming out with their accusations against these powerful men. Doing so has opened the door for others to feel safer in revealing their own past history of abuse by these men; and the reaction has opened the door for other women whose careers are currently in a position to be affected to come forward with less fear of potential consequences. There's still a long way to go on that, however. Quote:
I would tend to agree with this. There is a world of difference in the nature of the current accusations against Franken compared to Moore, Weinstein, Trump, and others; and an even greater difference in how those accusations were addressed by the accused. As it stands right now, taking the accusations at face value, there was a single incident, which was not pursued. His actions at the time were certainly worthy of censure, but he has accepted responsibility for them and encouraged further investigation; and his actions and voting record indicate that he is on the right side of the issue. They do not IMO require his expulsion from the senate or his resignation. Should further credible accusations come to light, then I would strongly support his resignation or expulsion. By contrast, the accusations against the likes of Moore and Trump are far more egregious, part of a much larger pattern of abuses, and have been met with denial, victim blaming/shaming, threats of defamation lawsuits, and in Trump's case at least, bragging about his ability to get away with such abuses. Huge difference. |
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These crimes are not all the same, there is a scale from Franken, through Louis CK up to Weinstien. Why should the punishment be universal? |
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... In which you ask it. |
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I would add that in two decades of being on the set of Saturday Night Live, Franken had ample opportunity to behave badly. If he did, we are likely to hear of it. |
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Why should the punishment for this be one size fits all? |
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Sliding scale of sexual assault.
Get on board. |
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"Liberal" is a diluted and contentious term. I think "progressive" is a much more accurate and agreeable shorthand for people whose policy positions tend to spring from a particular kind of idealism. It also stands neatly across from "conservative", the opposing wellspring of policy ideals. |
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