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-   -   Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324808)

Belz... 16th November 2017 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078844)
The story, the pictures, the timing, the people ...

I still don't see how her past jobs have anything to do with the context of this one event. Like, if I got hacked, would me being a computer programmer provide context?

RecoveringYuppy 16th November 2017 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12078823)
Speaking as a man, I don't see the appeal.

You say a lot of ambiguous things. Can you clarify? Do you mean "She's not pretty enough to assault" which was my first thought. A second later I realized you could also mean "I don't understand the attraction of sex with nonconsenting women". So what are you saying here?

Belz... 16th November 2017 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy (Post 12078860)
You say a lot of ambiguous things. Can you clarify? Do you mean "She's not pretty enough to assault" which was my first thought. A second later I realized you could also mean "I don't understand the attraction of sex with nonconsenting women". So what are you saying here?

I don't understand the appeal of doing the thing LTC8K6 was describing. In fact, that's exactly what I said in the post you quoted.

I think the reason why you think I'm often ambiguous is that you're trying too hard to find hidden meanings in what I say.

applecorped 16th November 2017 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078724)
Pretending to grab her boobs while she is asleep, and taking a photo of the act, is sexual harassment, imo.

:thumbsup:

RecoveringYuppy 16th November 2017 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12078865)
I don't understand the appeal of doing the thing LTC8K6 was describing. In fact, that's exactly what I said in the post you quoted.

I think the reason why you think I'm often ambiguous is that you're trying too hard to find hidden meanings in what I say.

That doesn't help. I'm asking WHY you don't understand the appeal. And now starting to wonder if you're ducking the question.

applecorped 16th November 2017 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078801)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeann_Tweeden

She has also appeared on the political discussion series Hannity, as a member of the "Great American Panel" and occasionally appeared on the panel of Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld.[4]

In 1996, Tweeden appeared non-nude in a fitness model pictorial for Playboy magazine. Fifteen years later, at 38 years old, she appeared again in the December, 2011 issue of Playboy, this time posing in a nude pictorial. IIn 2002, she was a guest character in the motocross video game Freekstyle as a motocross rider. The March 2007 Issue of FHM (which was the final printed US issue) featured Tweeden as the cover girl.[5] As part of Hooters' 25th anniversary in 2008, she was named among "The Top Hooters Girls of all time".[6]


More context.


She had it coming! Did you see how she was dressed?

Belz... 16th November 2017 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy (Post 12078870)
That doesn't help. I'm asking WHY you don't understand the appeal.

Do you also need me to explain to you WHY I don't understand the appeal of broccoli?

What exactly is the problem, here? I don't understand the appeal. What else can I possibly say about this? :rolleyes:

Quote:

And now starting to wonder if you're ducking the question.
And I'm starting to think that you have a specific beef with me. No one else seems confused by my post. Go pick on someone else.

3point14 16th November 2017 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078811)
Context doesn't matter in your world ?

In what way do you think your post informs the debate? What changes, in your interpretation of the situation, in light of the 'context' you've provided?

Darat 16th November 2017 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078802)
In the same context.

Sleeping, fellow employee, pretending to grope her breasts.

And she was your wife?

Not being facetious but context really does matter.

Brainster 16th November 2017 10:38 AM

Get this bit from Franken's famous joke about raping Lesley Stahl:

Quote:

Franken: “And, ‘I give the pills to Lesley Stahl. Then, when Lesley’s passed out, I take her to the closet and rape her.’ Or, ‘That’s why you never see Lesley until February.’ Or, ‘When she passes out, I put her in various positions and take pictures of her.’”
(Italics added)

Sounds like we've identified Franken's kink--he likes to take pictures of himself doing things to women who are sleeping or passed out. Just a little bit more context.

bytewizard 16th November 2017 10:39 AM

Congresswoman Jackie Speier announced yesterday that Congress has had a taxpayer provided sexual harassment fund in place and the fund has paid out $15 million dollars over the last 10-15 years to settle claims against Congress members. Those who were paid off agreed to a non-disclosure clause, meaning no names of those accused will be made public. More of our tax dollars going to a great cause!

NoahFence 16th November 2017 10:41 AM

This is the direct result of electing a pile of **** like Donald Trump president. Did perpetrators of sexual assault and molestation think women were going to keep silent forever?

Yea, right. Time for that seismic shift in our culture.

RecoveringYuppy 16th November 2017 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12078878)
Do you also need me to explain to you WHY I don't understand the appeal of broccoli?

What exactly is the problem, here? I don't understand the appeal. What else can I possibly say about this? :rolleyes:.

I gave you two possible choices of ways you could clarify this. Since you don't seem to want to do that I'll just point out that it is horrible to imply that only attractive should be molested. Or, the corollary, that attractive women deserve to be molested.

Belz... 16th November 2017 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy (Post 12078901)
I gave you two possible choices of ways you could clarify this.

I DID CLARIFY. I told you that I can't understand the appeal of the actions described by the other poster. YOU ARE THE ONE adding meaning to it, in a very vile way, I might add:

Quote:

I'll just point out that it is horrible to imply that only attractive should be molested. Or, the corollary, that attractive women deserve to be molested.
It would be quite an understatement of me to say that you're using the uttermost least charitable reading of my post. Instead, you seem to be on a mission to smear me without reason. Never have I said or implied any of these things, and your post borders on libel. Take it back. Now.

BobTheCoward 16th November 2017 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Jones (Post 12078734)
Says who?

I do. Everyone is debating the photo like they are Jim Garrison. Meanwhile, putting a tongue in someone's mouth during a rehearsal is blatantly unacceptable.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3point14 (Post 12078887)
In what way do you think your post informs the debate? What changes, in your interpretation of the situation, in light of the 'context' you've provided?

Whether the "victim" is sincere or making political hay.

I'll point out again, she brought up in the article:
"As a TV host and sports broadcaster, as well as a model familiar to the audience from the covers of FHM, Maxim and Playboy, ...."

If it's not important to context, why did she bring it up ?

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12078905)
I DID CLARIFY. I told you that I can't understand the appeal of the actions described by the other poster. YOU ARE THE ONE adding meaning to it, in a very vile way, I might add:



It would be quite an understatement of me to say that you're using the uttermost least charitable reading of my post. Instead, you seem to be on a mission to smear me without reason. Never have I said or implied any of these things, and your post borders on libel. Take it back. Now.

Or ?

Belz... 16th November 2017 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078911)
Whether the "victim" is sincere or making political hay.

I'll point out again, she brought up in the article:
"As a TV host and sports broadcaster, as well as a model familiar to the audience from the covers of FHM, Maxim and Playboy, ...."

If it's not important to context, why did she bring it up ?

Maybe for no good reason. It still doesn't tell us anything more about the incident.

Belz... 16th November 2017 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078914)
Or ?

I need to name a consequence for Yuppy to do the right thing?

Well, that sure is very informative about you.

johnny karate 16th November 2017 10:53 AM

This women may be a Fox-bot, but that photo corroborates her story.

Franken should resign, or at least address the allegation in a more meaningful way. His lame rationalization reads like a guilty person trying to find the middle ground between not admitting guilt and not calling the accuser a liar.

Also, good to see our forum conservatives finally remember they find sexual assault distasteful.

tyr_13 16th November 2017 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahFence (Post 12078899)
This is the direct result of electing a pile of **** like Donald Trump president. Did perpetrators of sexual assault and molestation think women were going to keep silent forever?

Yea, right. Time for that seismic shift in our culture.

So a possible bright side for his being elected?

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12078919)
I need to name a consequence for Yuppy to do the right thing?

Well, that sure is very informative about you.

:confused:

It seemed there was an implied consequence. I was wondering what it was.

ETA: and when you posted "WHY I don't understand the appeal of broccoli?" You did seem to imply it's because we should all agree broccoli is unappealing. So yeah, you could have been much clearer.

NoahFence 16th November 2017 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyr_13 (Post 12078921)
So a possible bright side for his being elected?

There's a bright side to everything. Even a nuclear explosion!

I think it could have signaled the end of the road for his type of people. Provided we make it though the other side alive, I get the sense that predatory behavior is on the way out, thankfully.

Unfortunately people like Franken will get caught up in it. But can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

Belz... 16th November 2017 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078928)
ETA: and when you posted "WHY I don't understand the appeal of broccoli?" You did seem to imply it's because we should all agree broccoli is unappealing. So yeah, you could have been much clearer.

You have a serious problem with making logical connections if you think one implies the other.

Really.

If person A says "I don't understand why people like pizza", the ONLY thing they're saying is that they don't like pizza and don't understand why others like it. They are not saying that no one else should like it, or that pizzas are too expensive, or have too much cheese on them, or were invented too late in history, or whatever. Any of these other things are complete fabrications.

Look, my post was clear: I don't understand the appeal of taking a picture of a sleeping woman and (at the very least) pretending to grope her. I don't find it funny or amusing or clever, but I do find it stupid. That's not a moral judgment, nor is it -- and it's amazing that I have to say this -- a statement about the woman's appearance. However, if we're to talk about morality, I think that depending on the context of the act, it might be morally wrong, especially if he actually put his hands on her without consent, or used the picture to harass or embarrass her.

Belz... 16th November 2017 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahFence (Post 12078932)
There's a bright side to everything. Even a nuclear explosion!

In fact, nuclear explosions have mostly bright sides. That's one of their problems, actually.

Beelzebuddy 16th November 2017 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bytewizard (Post 12078896)
Congresswoman Jackie Speier announced yesterday that Congress has had a taxpayer provided sexual harassment fund in place and the fund has paid out $15 million dollars over the last 10-15 years to settle claims against Congress members. Those who were paid off agreed to a non-disclosure clause, meaning no names of those accused will be made public. More of our tax dollars going to a great cause!

What they should really do is void all the NDAs resulting from this fund and get it ALL out.

Mike! 16th November 2017 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12078944)
In fact, nuclear explosions have mostly bright sides. That's one of their problems, actually.

Depends on how you look at it. Sort of like the eclipse. A good welding helmet would be useful for a second or two.

C_Felix 16th November 2017 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078844)
The story, the pictures, the timing, the people ... :confused:

I didn't intend for it to come across as victim blaming.

Let us go way out on a limb and suggest she had sex when was 12, her first three way when she was 13, and much like Madonna in the opening of Resiervoir Dogs, can't get enough D. And if you ask her, she'll send you a nude selfie.

Let us play pretend and assume all of that is true, does that make what Al Franken might have done any better?

Beerina 16th November 2017 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078689)
http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leean...or-al-franken/

...



...

Time to start expelling anyone who has any such events in their past?



Hurried to turn on Rush Limbaugh for the hell of it...yep, "blah blah blah Al Franken blah blah..." Like clockwork.

Monza 16th November 2017 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078911)
Whether the "victim" is sincere or making political hay.

I'll point out again, she brought up in the article:
"As a TV host and sports broadcaster, as well as a model familiar to the audience from the covers of FHM, Maxim and Playboy, ...."

If it's not important to context, why did she bring it up ?


She explains why she brought it up in her article. As a Playboy/FHM model she was familiar to the audience of young men. It's clear she knew why she was there, as an attractive woman on stage for an audience of soldiers. She would act as emcee and knew the skits would feature sexual innuendo. When Franken suggested she be part of his skit that included a kiss she agreed.

The problem was he wanted a rehearsal and while ding so went too far for her comfort. She told him and then stopped all non-professional interaction with him. She claims he then treated her poorly and took a picture of her while she was sleeping with the intent to humiliate her.

The_Animus 16th November 2017 11:37 AM

The difference in responses from Moore and Frankin as well as their supporters is interesting

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 12078889)
And she was your wife?

Not being facetious but context really does matter.

How would that be the same context as Franken / Tweeden?

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C_Felix (Post 12078973)
Let us go way out on a limb and suggest she had sex when was 12, her first three way when she was 13, and much like Madonna in the opening of Resiervoir Dogs, can't get enough D. And if you ask her, she'll send you a nude selfie.

Let us play pretend and assume all of that is true, does that make what Al Franken might have done any better?

Ostensibly, the only reason she was there was she was a hot model.

When someone is in the business of selling themselves and their sexuality, someone else taking a crass photo of pretending to grab said persons breasts doesn't seem as egregious as other circumstances. I can easily see it having been a running gag, or something similar during the tour.

Again, this isn't meant to be in the context of "therefor she deserved it" - it's meant to be in the context of how adults on a tour might be expected to interact with one another, based on who they are and what they are there for.

Was it a funny picture ? Not to me as it is, not with no other context. And Franken would probably only dig himself deeper trying to explain one.

Let me also clarify this was about the picture - that we can all see and agree on. The kiss was wrong if it happened they way tweeden described it. But franken does seem to disagree it happened that way. And her political background, which I also posted, gives reason for pause on taking her story at face value with no questioning motives.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12078942)
You have a serious problem with making logical connections if you think one implies the other.

Really.

Maybe your communication skills need improvement.

Really.

Fudbucker 16th November 2017 11:50 AM

The picture and the allegations are bad. Franken should probably step down.

Democrats might come out of this even: lose Franken's seat, pick up Alabama's. The principle has to be: the Left holds their scumbags to account. That's worth more than a Senate spot.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079004)
The picture and the allegations are bad. Franken should probably step down.

Democrats might come out of this even: lose Franken's seat, pick up Alabama's.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...ion-of-himself

en. Al Franken (D-Minn.) is calling for an ethics investigation into his own behavior after a woman accused him of kissing and groping her without consent.

Franken in an expanded statement on Thursday apologized for the incident, in which he groped television host and sports broadcaster Leeann Tweeden while she was asleep on a military plane during a 2006 USO tour.

“I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences,” he said. “I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.”

...
Franken doubled down on his claim that he does not remember the rehearsal for the skit “in the same way” as Tweeden.

But he said Tweeden "deserved to be heard."

“The truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories,” Franken said. “They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them.”

Belz... 16th November 2017 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079003)
Maybe your communication skills need improvement.

Really.

Considering that you just ignored the entire text of the post that follows what you quoted, I think the problem is not only on your end, but deliberate.

It's really mind-boggling to me how many posters here are looking for disagreement rather than discussion and understanding, but there you have it.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079004)
The picture and the allegations are bad. Franken should probably step down.

Democrats might come out of this even: lose Franken's seat, pick up Alabama's. The principle has to be: the Left holds their scumbags to account. That's worth more than a Senate spot.

Al Franken, steps down.

Roy Moore, Senator for life.

Totally worth it :boggled:

Fudbucker 16th November 2017 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079007)
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...ion-of-himself

en. Al Franken (D-Minn.) is calling for an ethics investigation into his own behavior after a woman accused him of kissing and groping her without consent.

Franken in an expanded statement on Thursday apologized for the incident, in which he groped television host and sports broadcaster Leeann Tweeden while she was asleep on a military plane during a 2006 USO tour.

“I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences,” he said. “I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.”

...
Franken doubled down on his claim that he does not remember the rehearsal for the skit “in the same way” as Tweeden.

But he said Tweeden "deserved to be heard."

“The truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories,” Franken said. “They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them.”

I believe the accuser. What Franken did is a disqualifier. I'm as liberal as they come, but we can't tolerate these men acting like this.

ponderingturtle 16th November 2017 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079004)
The picture and the allegations are bad. Franken should probably step down.

Democrats might come out of this even: lose Franken's seat, pick up Alabama's. The principle has to be: the Left holds their scumbags to account. That's worth more than a Senate spot.

Then we should kick out everyone who had one of those payments made to keep sexual assault in the house quiet. If we did it might well do interesting things to the political landscape.


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