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-   -   Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324808)

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079009)
Considering that you just ignored the entire text of the post that follows what you quoted, I think the problem is not only on your end, but deliberate.

No, you finally explained yourself clearly in the last part.
" I don't understand the appeal of taking a picture of a sleeping woman and (at the very least) pretending to grope her. I don't find it funny or amusing or clever, but I do find it stupid."

Maybe you should listen when people tell you your posting isn't clear, instead of arguing and saying of course it is ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079009)
It's really mind-boggling to me how many posters here are looking for disagreement rather than discussion and understanding, but there you have it.

:i:

Fudbucker 16th November 2017 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079010)
Al Franken, steps down.

Roy Moore, Senator for life.

Totally worth it :boggled:

That's the kind of thinking that enables and protects these people. I don't care if its a pivotal senate seat. In fact, because the seat is so valuable, it would send a message from the Left that we're done tolerating this crap.

Realistically, if this is the only skeleton in his closet, Franken will probably survive with a censure or something, but if more women come out, he's toast.

Fudbucker 16th November 2017 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 12079015)
Then we should kick out everyone who had one of those payments made to keep sexual assault in the house quiet. If we did it might well do interesting things to the political landscape.

Personally, I think we should just let women run the show. We men have messed things up royally, and apparently in positions of power, many of us turn into disgusting horndogs.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079020)
That's the kind of thinking that enables and protects these people. I don't care if its a pivotal senate seat. In fact, because the seat is so valuable, it would send a message from the Left that we're done tolerating this crap.

Actually, I mostly agree with you. I just hate that it won't matter to a basket of deplorables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079020)
Realistically, if this is the only skeleton in his closet, Franken will probably survive with a censure or something, but if more women come out, he's toast.

If this happened the way tweeden described, there are plenty more women.
And yeah, if they come out, bye bye franken.

Belz... 16th November 2017 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079018)
No, you finally explained yourself clearly in the last part.

If neither you nor Yuppy found it clever to add content to my post, it would've been clear to you right off the bat.

Quote:

Maybe you should listen when people tell you your posting isn't clear, instead of arguing and saying of course it is ?
I'd be much more open to adding clarifications if people didn't make depicable accusations with their requests for same.

Quote:

:i:
Point to a post where I'm disagreeing with anyone on purpose.

Good luck.

Or did you just post the irony meter because you were wounded and couldn't think of a good response?

Belz... 16th November 2017 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079022)
Personally, I think we should just let women run the show.

:rolleyes:

How about a more balanced way of doing things rather than just assume women would do a better job?

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079024)
Or did you just post the irony meter because you were wounded and couldn't think of a good response?

:dl:

Belz... 16th November 2017 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079029)
:dl:

I'll take that as a yes and a doubling down.

<snip>

Mod WarningRemoved breaches of rule 0 and 12.
Posted By:TubbaBlubba

Upchurch 16th November 2017 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079022)
Personally, I think we should just let women run the show. We men have messed things up royally, and apparently in positions of power, many of us turn into disgusting horndogs.

Too many misogynists, men and women, for that, but it would be interesting.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079030)
I'll take that as a yes and a doubling down.

Take it however you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079030)
If you can't hold a civil discussion, go away.

I hold plenty of "civil discussions" No one is forcing you to read my posts, or respond to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079030)
ETA: And again you ignore the more important points made. Very telling.

"very telling" ... ok. :rolleyes:

Civet 16th November 2017 12:13 PM

You know, Mike Pence is probably feeling pretty smug right about now.

Belz... 16th November 2017 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079042)
I hold plenty of "civil discussions" No one is forcing you to read my posts, or respond to them.

Then please have the courtesy of having one with me, rather than posting nonsense and ignoring my points.

Do you agree with Yuppy's ridiculous interpretation of my post or not?

mgidm86 16th November 2017 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079007)
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...ion-of-himself

en. Al Franken (D-Minn.) is calling for an ethics investigation into his own behavior after a woman accused him of kissing and groping her without consent.

Franken in an expanded statement on Thursday apologized for the incident, in which he groped television host and sports broadcaster Leeann Tweeden while she was asleep on a military plane during a 2006 USO tour.

“I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences,” he said. “I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.”

...
Franken doubled down on his claim that he does not remember the rehearsal for the skit “in the same way” as Tweeden.

But he said Tweeden "deserved to be heard."

“The truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories,” Franken said. “They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them.”

That's me - Al Franken.

As much as I don't like him - the picture is not cool. The kiss though, if it happened once, big deal.

"Let's practice a kiss".
"Okay"
Kiss happens
"Yuck"
The end. Shut up.

If he behaved badly after then that's different, maybe...photo included. Far as I know she wasn't his employee at least.

I am seriously getting sick of these accusations every day in the news, especially ones like these. I'm actually defending Al Franken! What the hell has our news become? Out with Nazis and Antifa and in with sex accusations. Nothing really matters, it's just a show. Any actual news happening?

This stuff is surreal. North Korea and nuclear war, Nazis, celebrity sex problems - the news is strong for a few weeks then it fades away into to the nothingness where it belongs. I really do not care what celebrities do.

bluesjnr 16th November 2017 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079001)
...snip... reason for pause on taking her story at face value...snip...

I wondered how long it would be before we merry band of sceptics considered this.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079047)
Then please have the courtesy of having one with me, rather than posting nonsense and ignoring my points.

Do you agree with Yuppy's ridiculous interpretation of my post or not?

Not after your clarification.

Prior to your clarification, the part of what you found unappealing was unclear. And yes, could have been interpreted uncharitably.

I don't understand why you didn't just try to be more clear. That's what someone interested in a discussion would do. Someone who wanted to argue might just double down and say how dare you misunderstand me.

See my point ?

Belz... 16th November 2017 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079052)
Prior to your clarification, the part of what you found unappealing was unclear.

Even though the post I was responding to described what Franken apparently did with the picture? :confused:

Quote:

I don't understand why you didn't just try to be more clear.
Well I thought I was. But "I'm not sure what you mean" is one thing. "Well, you're either saying she's not hot enough to be raped or it's ok for her to be raped" is beyond the pale.

NoahFence 16th November 2017 12:21 PM

Take the off-topic crap elsewhere.

Belz... 16th November 2017 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahFence (Post 12079056)
Take the off-topic crap elsewhere.

We're discussing interpretation of a comment about the actions described in the OP. How is that off-topic?

RecoveringYuppy 16th November 2017 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesjnr (Post 12079051)
I wondered how long it would be before we merry band of sceptics considered this.

IMO Franken has confirmed enough of her story for me to consider this episode to still be a major problem. Even if I ignore the parts that can't be corroborated and/or that he disputes there is still a major problem.

BobTheCoward 16th November 2017 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 (Post 12079050)
That's me - Al Franken.

As much as I don't like him - the picture is not cool. The kiss though, if it happened once, big deal.

"Let's practice a kiss".
"Okay"
Kiss happens
"Yuck"
The end. Shut up.

Consent to a stage kiss is not permission for the person to stick their tongue in the other party's mouth.

Belz... 16th November 2017 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy (Post 12079058)
IMO Franken has confirmed enough of her story for me to consider this episode to still be a major problem. Even if I ignore the parts that can't be corroborated and/or that he disputes there is still a major problem.

It sure doesn't look good on him. It's pretty insane the amount of accusations that have popped up since the Weinstein affair began. Hopefully innocent defenders (if there are any) won't be ruined by these accusations, but it sure is not encouraging to see all these events come to light.

Planigale 16th November 2017 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079001)
Ostensibly, the only reason she was there was she was a hot model.

When someone is in the business of selling themselves and their sexuality, someone else taking a crass photo of pretending to grab said persons breasts doesn't seem as egregious as other circumstances. I can easily see it having been a running gag, or something similar during the tour.

Again, this isn't meant to be in the context of "therefor she deserved it" - it's meant to be in the context of how adults on a tour might be expected to interact with one another, based on who they are and what they are there for.

Was it a funny picture ? Not to me as it is, not with no other context. And Franken would probably only dig himself deeper trying to explain one.

Let me also clarify this was about the picture - that we can all see and agree on. The kiss was wrong if it happened they way tweeden described it. But franken does seem to disagree it happened that way. And her political background, which I also posted, gives reason for pause on taking her story at face value with no questioning motives.

To quote my favourite Bunnygirl;
"You don't know how hard it is being a woman looking the way I do... I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way."

It is not my fault I'm a hot blonde with big boobs*, but that does not give you permission to shout comments across the street, squeeze up against me in lifts, or think that it is humorous to cop a handful. if I show cleavage then I'm a flirt, if I don't I am a prude. It is not an easy life being a beautiful woman.

OK there are certain job opportunities open to me that may not be open to others, but seeing my photo in a magazine is not consent to assault.

*In my dreams - I'm probably the anti-particle, bring me in to contact with a hot big boobed blonde and there would be a big bang!

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahFence (Post 12078899)
This is the direct result of electing a pile of **** like Donald Trump president. Did perpetrators of sexual assault and molestation think women were going to keep silent forever?

Yea, right. Time for that seismic shift in our culture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahFence (Post 12079056)
Take the off-topic crap elsewhere.

:thumbsup:

dudalb 16th November 2017 12:47 PM

Franken shoud announce his retirement after his current term ends at a minimum.
First person who tries to let Franken off the hook because he is on "Our" side I will treat just like I treat the idiots who are supporting Moore. Granted, what Moore did was worse then what Franken did ,but that is no excuse.

Mark F 16th November 2017 12:57 PM

Since being accused of sexual misconduct is now apparently grounds for elected officials to step down, does that mean Trump goes too?

dudalb 16th November 2017 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark F (Post 12079097)
Since being accused of sexual misconduct is now apparently grounds for elected officials to step down, does that mean Trump goes too?

We should be so lucky..........

dudalb 16th November 2017 01:00 PM

And I don't like the guy, but Pence's policy of not being alone with a women other then his wife seems to have been a smart move on his part....

Fudbucker 16th November 2017 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079027)
:rolleyes:

How about a more balanced way of doing things rather than just assume women would do a better job?

I don't see how they could do worse.

Belz... 16th November 2017 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079128)
I don't see how they could do worse.

Seems like we've done rather well so far, all things considered. Sure, some people are asshats, some are incompetent, some are stupid... but I fail to see your dystopian present.

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 01:20 PM

I guess some other broad is asserting that he "harassed" her too, by making phone calls to her quibbling over a budget issue.

Fudbucker 16th November 2017 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079064)
It sure doesn't look good on him. It's pretty insane the amount of accusations that have popped up since the Weinstein affair began. Hopefully innocent defenders (if there are any) won't be ruined by these accusations, but it sure is not encouraging to see all these events come to light.

What, do you want women to keep hiding in the shadows? I'm completely encouraged by this. Perhaps Trump was a blessing in disguise.

Fudbucker 16th November 2017 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079132)
Seems like we've done rather well so far, all things considered. Sure, some people are asshats, some are incompetent, some are stupid... but I fail to see your dystopian present.

Let's see, Trump President, Climate Change rolling along, trillions spent on stupid wars, millions going without health insurance, worse drug epidemic in country's history...

Sounds pretty dystopian to me.

ponderingturtle 16th November 2017 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark F (Post 12079097)
Since being accused of sexual misconduct is now apparently grounds for elected officials to step down, does that mean Trump goes too?

But the Groper in Chief did it in a manly way that everyone loved.

Belz... 16th November 2017 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079137)
Let's see, Trump President, Climate Change rolling along, trillions spent on stupid wars, millions going without health insurance, worse drug epidemic in country's history...

Sounds pretty dystopian to me.

What does any of that have to do with males? Are women more likely to cut down on their spending, electricity usage or lifestyles to curb global warming?

ponderingturtle 16th November 2017 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12079102)
And I don't like the guy, but Pence's policy of not being alone with a women other then his wife seems to have been a smart move on his part....

And making sure to keep the careers of women in their proper place.

Though seriously, being not alone does not exactly stop these people. See the women groped on the floor of the house.

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 01:23 PM

The accusations should be investigated first.

If the result is that the accusations are accurate, then disciplinary action should be taken, up to and including removal from office of Moore, Franken, Trump, or whoever.

Taking severe disciplinary action from accusations alone is just never going to be a good policy, imo.

Belz... 16th November 2017 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079134)
What, do you want women to keep hiding in the shadows?

What? I mean that it's not encouraging to see all these allegations: if they're true, then we have a lot more asshats in the entertainment business and in politics, sexually speaking.

Fudbucker 16th November 2017 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079144)
What? I mean that it's not encouraging to see all these allegations: if they're true, then we have a lot more asshats in the entertainment business and in politics, sexually speaking.

I misrread you.

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12079133)
I guess some other broad is asserting that he "harassed" her too, by making phone calls to her quibbling over a budget issue.

Broad?

Attacking her already? :)

Fudbucker 16th November 2017 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon (Post 12079140)
What does any of that have to do with males? Are women more likely to cut down on their spending, electricity usage or lifestyles to curb global warming?

I think women are less likely to get involved in wars, yes. I think they also might be better at coming together to form a consensus when it comes to issues like health care, environment, etc.


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