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-   -   Bill Barr and his October Surprise (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346780)

Segnosaur 13th December 2020 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13324674)
The reason Barr kept the Hunter investigation hidden from Trump was to make a conviction possible.
If Trump had made a public spectacle of it, no judge could have found an unbiased jury.
Barr did not do the Bidens any favors.

That of course assumes 1) Hunter broke the law, to the point where he could be convicted, 2) Barr actually cares about enforcing the law, or at least that it takes priority over political goals.

I am leaning towards "he didn't think it would help Trump's campaign ENOUGH and didn't want to tarnish his image further."

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

StillSleepy 13th December 2020 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13324874)
That of course assumes 1) Hunter broke the law, to the point where he could be convicted, 2) Barr actually cares about enforcing the law, or at least that it takes priority over political goals.

I am leaning towards "he didn't think it would help Trump's campaign ENOUGH and didn't want to tarnish his image further."

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

My take is that it's a simple decision with no substantial loss and a possibility of gain for Barr. Barr gets to cover his *** by investigating Hunter as the GOP desires without having a mass media meltdown, if he gets solid evidence of fraud and announces it he could swing the pendulum in the GOP's favor. If he doesn't, he can't be accused of interfering with the election by either party for "just doing his job."

Skeptic Ginger 13th December 2020 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StillSleepy (Post 13325003)
My take is that it's a simple decision with no substantial loss and a possibility of gain for Barr. Barr gets to cover his *** by investigating Hunter as the GOP desires without having a mass media meltdown, if he gets solid evidence of fraud and announces it he could swing the pendulum in the GOP's favor. If he doesn't, he can't be accused of interfering with the election by either party for "just doing his job."

So why do you suppose he didn't?

acbytesla 13th December 2020 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerok (Post 13324506)
I never imagined Barr to be a good human, but I think he turned out to be a better human than I thought he was. It's not a high bar. So to speak.

:thumbsup: He might be better. But all of this could also simply be self serving. I also think that he may have grown to despise Trump. This is not hard to imagine. Trump uses people and the moment you show any Independence he tosses you under the bus.

Barr has always been a self serving cretin. I don't buy he grew a conscience.

StillSleepy 13th December 2020 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13325007)
So why do you suppose he didn't?

I am unclear on which action you are referring to.
ETA: I'm referring to his decision to have the young Bidens investigated without announcing it prior to or during the election.

Skeptic Ginger 13th December 2020 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StillSleepy (Post 13325019)
I am unclear on which action you are referring to.
ETA: I'm referring to his decision to have the young Bidens investigated without announcing it prior to or during the election.

Yes, that is what I'm referring to.

You posted there was no downside to Barr investigating Hunter. Then why didn't Barr make it a public affair.

Norman Alexander 13th December 2020 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 13325011)
:thumbsup: He might be better. But all of this could also simply be self serving. I also think that he may have grown to despise Trump. This is not hard to imagine. Trump uses people and the moment you show any Independence he tosses you under the bus.

Barr has always been a self serving cretin. I don't buy he grew a conscience.

I think it is almost certainly this, plus the fact Barr has a brain and can think at least a few moves ahead. Not chess grand master deep thought, but enough to know how to have this particular investigation organised to his own best advantage, i.e. quietly so Donny doesn't hear about it.

StillSleepy 13th December 2020 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13325052)
Yes, that is what I'm referring to.



You posted there was no downside to Barr investigating Hunter. Then why didn't Barr make it a public affair.

The combination of investigating Biden without announcing it doesn't have much of a downside, not the mere investigating of Biden. Announcing the Biden investigation would have created a three ring circus between Trump and the media, and would have left Barr without an out with Trump if the investigation turned up nothing. Basically it gives him plausible deniability for both parties.

acbytesla 13th December 2020 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13325063)
I think it is almost certainly this, plus the fact Barr has a brain and can think at least a few moves ahead. Not chess grand master deep thought, but enough to know how to have this particular investigation organised to his own best advantage, i.e. quietly so Donny doesn't hear about it.

What is Trump going to do to him? Fire him? Trump could ill afford to fire him and have some career Deputy AG not in the least bit loyal to Trump continue on in his place until Congress approves a new AG. I despise Barr, but I have no reason to question his intelligence.

dudalb 13th December 2020 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 13325131)
What is Trump going to do to him? Fire him? Trump could ill afford to fire him and have some career Deputy AG not in the least bit loyal to Trump continue on in his place until Congress approves a new AG. I despise Barr, but I have no reason to question his intelligence.


Yeah, Trump always acts in a rational and logical manner.....

Craig4 13th December 2020 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13325052)
Yes, that is what I'm referring to.

You posted there was no downside to Barr investigating Hunter. Then why didn't Barr make it a public affair.

I think it's entirely possible that the career attorneys simply didn't tell him or didn't tell him about Hunter's role in their investigation. They've all seen Barr intervene in DoJ cases to Trump's political advantage. They've all also been told to do things by Barr that make no sense and would damage their ability to prosecute. He might have known Hunter was a known associate of this Chinese business person but not told he was also a person on interest.

acbytesla 13th December 2020 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13325155)
Yeah, Trump always acts in a rational and logical manner.....

No he doesn't. Who's to say whether he comprehends the futility of firing Barr at this moment. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Actually, I'm saying Barr is giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Horatius 13th December 2020 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig4 (Post 13325172)
I think it's entirely possible that the career attorneys simply didn't tell him or didn't tell him about Hunter's role in their investigation. They've all seen Barr intervene in DoJ cases to Trump's political advantage. They've all also been told to do things by Barr that make no sense and would damage their ability to prosecute. He might have known Hunter was a known associate of this Chinese business person but not told he was also a person on interest.



It's also possible that he knew the ongoing investigation wasn't turning up any actual evidence. The fiasco of the Hunter Biden Laptops was bad enough, imagine how it would have looked if the DoJ had also tried to lay a lame tax fraud charge on him, and failed?

dirtywick 13th December 2020 03:08 PM

if there was something there, Barr wouldn't be shy about saying so. but Trump wasn't asking that of him. Trump asking Barr to intervene in the voter fraud PR stunts and he refused to do that also.

Barr has played fast and loose with facts and interpretation of them in the past but i think what Trump is asking of him now is too far even for him

a_unique_person 13th December 2020 03:50 PM

Barr did his job of saving Trump's presidency. He came to realise, like just about everyone else, that Trump is a total jerk and list interest in him when the end was coming.

Norman Alexander 13th December 2020 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13325204)
It's also possible that he knew the ongoing investigation wasn't turning up any actual evidence. The fiasco of the Hunter Biden Laptops was bad enough, imagine how it would have looked if the DoJ had also tried to lay a lame tax fraud charge on him, and failed?

Especially since Donny, his lord and master and paymaster, is going to face multiple real and viable tax fraud charges the moment he leaves office.

Hercules56 13th December 2020 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtywick (Post 13325214)
if there was something there, Barr wouldn't be shy about saying so. but Trump wasn't asking that of him. Trump asking Barr to intervene in the voter fraud PR stunts and he refused to do that also.

Barr has played fast and loose with facts and interpretation of them in the past but i think what Trump is asking of him now is too far even for him

Its because of things like this that I think its possible Donny may be doing all this just to raise money, and not because he thinks actual serious fraud took place.

I really don't think he would consider his own AG to be an enemy trying to hobble him. Or maybe I am wrong and Trump really is that insane.

Segnosaur 13th December 2020 05:37 PM

And the relationship between Stubby McBonespurs and Bill "Flintstone" Barr is getting nastier..

From:The Independent
Attorney General Bill Barr has reportedly compared Donald Trump's attacks on him as a “deposed king ranting"...

Craig4 13th December 2020 06:08 PM

Or it's possible Barr just wanted revenge. Trump had been calling out Barr for not arresting or launching investigations into Biden for a while. Barr seems like the type of guy who would do something like these and tell Trump at their last parting that he did it to hurt him.

Craig4 13th December 2020 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13325295)
And the relationship between Stubby McBonespurs and Bill "Flintstone" Barr is getting nastier..

From:The Independent
Attorney General Bill Barr has reportedly compared Donald Trump's attacks on him as a “deposed king ranting"...

That was a quote intended to get leaked.

Hercules56 13th December 2020 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13325295)
And the relationship between Stubby McBonespurs and Bill "Flintstone" Barr is getting nastier..

From:The Independent
Attorney General Bill Barr has reportedly compared Donald Trump's attacks on him as a “deposed king ranting"...

Would be awesome if Trump fires Barr.

Will just show how messed up a POTUS he is.

acbytesla 13th December 2020 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13325295)
And the relationship between Stubby McBonespurs and Bill "Flintstone" Barr is getting nastier..

From:The Independent
Attorney General Bill Barr has reportedly compared Donald Trump's attacks on him as a “deposed king ranting"...

It's funny because it really doesn't matter. Trump could fire Barr. And Barr is sitting there thinking "ooooh". "So?"

All these Trump sycophants are making a huge mistake. They would be better off standing up to Trump now. In fact, this is a perfect time to turn on him.

Norman Alexander 13th December 2020 07:49 PM

Getting fired by Donny could be a perverse sort of badge of honour.

The Great Zaganza 13th December 2020 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13325363)
Getting fired by Donny could be a perverse sort of badge of honour.

For Republicans looking for a career with the Party, getting fired by Trump is better than quitting.

For people with a moral compass, it's the other way around.

dirtywick 14th December 2020 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig4 (Post 13325312)
Or it's possible Barr just wanted revenge. Trump had been calling out Barr for not arresting or launching investigations into Biden for a while. Barr seems like the type of guy who would do something like these and tell Trump at their last parting that he did it to hurt him.

Trump has tried to bully him on several occasions. Standing up to Trump is what we’ve been hoping the GOP would start to do.

It’s just weird that it’s Barr of all people. But you take what you’re given

slyjoe 14th December 2020 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13325484)
For Republicans looking for a career with the Party, getting fired by Trump is better than quitting.

For people with a moral compass, it's the other way around.

Trump started out with some of those. I'm not sure there are any left. Anyone in mind? Certainly not the ones out front with the election fraud claims.

Stacyhs 14th December 2020 03:36 PM

Bill Barr just resigned

Mader Levap 14th December 2020 03:42 PM

Rat, ship.

Captain_Swoop 14th December 2020 03:49 PM

Trump Tweets

Just had a very nice meeting with Attorney General Bill Barr at the White House. Our relationship has been a very good one, he has done an outstanding job! As per letter, Bill will be leaving just before Christmas to spend the holidays with his family...

...Deputy Attorney General Jeff Rosen, an outstanding person, will become Acting Attorney General. Highly respected Richard Donoghue will be taking over the duties of Deputy Attorney General. Thank you to all!

Stacyhs 14th December 2020 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13326422)
Trump Tweets

Just had a very nice meeting with Attorney General Bill Barr at the White House. Our relationship has been a very good one, he has done an outstanding job! As per letter, Bill will be leaving just before Christmas to spend the holidays with his family...

...Deputy Attorney General Jeff Rosen, an outstanding person, will become Acting Attorney General. Highly respected Richard Donoghue will be taking over the duties of Deputy Attorney General. Thank you to all!

....except when I was deriding him and saying he wasn't.

Skeptic Ginger 14th December 2020 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mader Levap (Post 13326410)
Rat, ship.

I thought it was more of a "If I push Trump hard enough, and he'll Tweet me be-gone."

It's like when you don't give a **** so you stop working.

Skeptic Ginger 14th December 2020 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13326422)
Trump Tweets

Just had a very nice meeting with Attorney General Bill Barr at the White House. Our relationship has been a very good one, he has done an outstanding job! As per letter, Bill will be leaving just before Christmas to spend the holidays with his family...

...Deputy Attorney General Jeff Rosen, an outstanding person, will become Acting Attorney General. Highly respected Richard Donoghue will be taking over the duties of Deputy Attorney General. Thank you to all!

This is another one that smacks of staff writing it. Bet Trump is fluctuating between ranting and pouting.

Horatius 14th December 2020 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13326423)
....except when I was deriding him and saying he wasn't.



Did you read his resignation letter? Absolutely full of Trump ass-kissing. From a guy who said "a “deposed king ranting"" just a day or so ago.

These people are literally mentally ill.

slyjoe 14th December 2020 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13326432)
Did you read his resignation letter? Absolutely full of Trump ass-kissing. From a guy who said "a “deposed king ranting"" just a day or so ago.

These people are literally mentally ill.

That letter was about as sycophantic as it gets. So much for Billy-boy sticking it to Trump.

Stacyhs 14th December 2020 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13326432)
Did you read his resignation letter? Absolutely full of Trump ass-kissing. From a guy who said "a “deposed king ranting"" just a day or so ago.

These people are literally mentally ill.

I heard it read on CNN. I think it was blackmail. Trump: Here, sign this resignation letter or I'll fire you. You can either go down in history as resigning or being fired. Your choice.

Horatius 14th December 2020 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13326439)
I heard it read on CNN. I think it was blackmail. Trump: Here, sign this resignation letter or I'll fire you. You can either go down in history as resigning or being fired. Your choice.



Entertaining the idea that "history" will consider "Fired by Trump for telling the truth" as a bad thing is itself a sign of mental illness.

Resume 14th December 2020 04:47 PM

Back to
the town of Bedrock . . .

Stacyhs 14th December 2020 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resume (Post 13326458)
Back to
the town of Bedrock . . .

Courtesy of Bill's two feet.....

Norman Alexander 14th December 2020 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13326431)
This is another one that smacks of staff writing it. Bet Trump is fluctuating between ranting and pouting.

What meeting?

Norman Alexander 14th December 2020 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13326432)
Did you read his resignation letter? Absolutely full of Trump ass-kissing. From a guy who said "a “deposed king ranting"" just a day or so ago.

These people are literally mentally ill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyjoe (Post 13326437)
That letter was about as sycophantic as it gets. So much for Billy-boy sticking it to Trump.

Doesn't matter what a lawyer writes in a personal letter. If they are serious, it comes in a specific format and wording. Barr simply doesn't want Trump to launch his mob lawyers at him for violating his NDA or whatever. He just wants to go away with his skin intact.


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