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-   -   The behaviour of US police officers (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323251)

Suddenly 19th February 2021 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modified (Post 13402810)
There is a moral case for not letting perfectly good stuff go to a landfill.

Sure. That would be the "not as strong" part of my point when basic human needs are not involved.

Blue Mountain 19th February 2021 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suddenly (Post 13402336)
Well, yes.

The unreasonable part is that people need to dive into dumpsters in the first place. Once that part is taken as at all acceptable then the stores are going to look bad no matter what they do.

The stores get scapegoated because they are an easy target and whining about corporations acting like they are legally supposed to is a way to score points for being compassionate without the political risks of advocating the kinds of social programs aimed at a world where no one needs to dive into a dumpster.

"When I gave food to the poor, they called me a saint. When I asked why the poor had no food, they called me a communist." —Dom Hélder Câmara

SuburbanTurkey 22nd February 2021 05:24 AM

Plano, TX police decide that arresting a black man for "pedestrian in the roadway" is a good use of discretion during a once-in-a-lifetime cold snap.

Quote:

An 18-year old black man — Rodney Reese — was walking home from work at
@Walmart
during #TexasFreeze when @PlanoPoliceDept officers charged him with “Pedestrian in the Roadway”, Tuesday. He spent the night in jail. I’m speaking with him — and the Chief of Police, tonight.
@FOX4
https://twitter.com/DavidSFOX4/statu...92238631124996

Personal anecdote, it's extremely common in New England for people to walk in the roadways after a big snowstorm. Often roads are plowed while sidewalks or other pedestrian paths are impassable with snow or covered in ice.

SuburbanTurkey 22nd February 2021 05:36 AM

Quote:

An Indiana woman will receive a $200k settlement after giving birth alone in a Kentucky jail cell. Her attorney said she cut the umbilical cord with her teeth before climbing inside her mattress to protect the baby. The county says they did nothing wrong
https://apnews.com/article/indiana-l...d59d61d44b075b


USA #1

erlando 22nd February 2021 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13405323)

What the actual ****?!

It continually astounds me how a country claiming to be "the greatest country on Earth" can treat its citizens with such indifference.

Matthew Best 24th February 2021 03:44 AM

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dx14lOcBpM

Video of the fatal shooting of Kurt Reinhold in San Clemente last year. Obviously he needed to be stopped urgently as he was, checks notes, "going to jaywalk", according to one of the deputies. (Although, the other deputy suggests his road-crossing was "controlled" so who basically knows at this point?)

The best thing - the cops involved were, checks notes again, assigned to the Homeless Outreach Team. Must be some new definition of "outreach" that hasn't reached me yet.

SuburbanTurkey 24th February 2021 06:08 AM

Cops killed another handcuffed man by kneeling on his back and neck for over 5 minutes.

Quote:

A 30-year-old Northern California man undergoing a mental health episode died days after police officers kneeled on the back of his neck for nearly five minutes to subdue him, lawyers for his family said.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/23/us/an...4T09%3A45%3A03

Quote:

Isabella Collins said she called police in hopes they would help de-escalate the situation.
"I don't think I will ever not feel bad," she told CNN affiliate KGO. "If it was the right thing to do, it wouldn't have killed my brother."
Awful, imagine having to live with this kind of guilt. She called the cops thinking they would help her distressed brother, instead they murdered him.

Darat 24th February 2021 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13405323)

At least they let her have water!

erlando 25th February 2021 02:07 PM

Houston cop threatens to kill driver

The driver is probably lucky that he's white..

Darat 25th February 2021 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlando (Post 13409123)
Houston cop threatens to kill driver

The driver is probably lucky that he's white..

What the hell is it with people?


Taking videos with your phone in portrait!

JoeMorgue 25th February 2021 02:18 PM

Okay listen I get, to a degree, that public statements put out before trials/charges/etc have to be incredibly neutral. I do get that.

But this whole "Yes we are aware of the alleged incident where the officer threatened, assaulted, raped, murdered, then set the corpse on fire, then went to their home and threatened their family, then burned their crops to the ground, then sewed salt into the Earth, then sent a robot back in time to kill their grandmother so they were never born, all caught on video with a dozen witnesses and we are launching an investigation" thing just really makes it sound like you don't care and don't see what the problem is.

And I've seen the "pepper" that police agencies can put into public statements about non-police criminals who haven't yet been charged/convicted so don't tell me they can't do it or that there's rules against it.

Trebuchet 25th February 2021 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlando (Post 13406275)
What the actual ****?!

It continually astounds me how a country claiming to be "the greatest country on Earth" can treat its citizens with such indifference.

Only white Christian males are REAL citizens!

The Common Potato 26th February 2021 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13409127)
What the hell is it with people?


Taking videos with your phone in portrait!

You need to develop a moderation policy on this and sell it to the world.
Vote Darat. Vote often.

dann 3rd March 2021 05:59 AM

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (March 1,2021): Raids
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Belz... 3rd March 2021 06:17 AM

"Video unavailable
The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

Emily's Cat 3rd March 2021 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13414451)
"Video unavailable
The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

Ha ha, suck it Canada!

:duel :hug2

Belz... 3rd March 2021 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13414868)
Ha ha, suck it Canada!

:duel :hug2

Indeed. As usual, only the USA exists.

SuburbanTurkey 3rd March 2021 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13414873)
Indeed. As usual, only the USA exists.

Instead of giving you an error, videos like this should just redirect to live streams of curling. I doubt the Canadians would even notice something were amiss.

Emily's Cat 3rd March 2021 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13414874)
Instead of giving you an error, videos like this should just redirect to live streams of curling. I doubt the Canadians would even notice something were amiss.

Oh come on, at least redirect to hockey!

Blue Mountain 3rd March 2021 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13414884)
Oh come on, at least redirect to hockey!

Or maybe Don Cherry's "Rock-Em, Sock-Em Curling!" videos.

Emily's Cat 4th March 2021 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain (Post 13415211)
Or maybe Don Cherry's "Rock-Em, Sock-Em Curling!" videos.

I'm a fan of AvE. He's highly entertaining... and really, who doesn't enjoy an engineer taking things apart to see whether they're well made or not?

Shalamar 4th March 2021 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13414446)
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (March 1,2021): Raids
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

More Cancel Culture by the eeevil left.

/s

bruto 4th March 2021 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13415957)
I'm a fan of AvE. He's highly entertaining... and really, who doesn't enjoy an engineer taking things apart to see whether they're well made or not?

I too, though I think his language has become more gratuitously salty recently.

Emily's Cat 4th March 2021 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13416106)
I too, though I think his language has become more gratuitously salty recently.

I think it's his way of pushing back at YouTube's highly inconsistent rules :)

Trebuchet 5th March 2021 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13416106)
I too, though I think his language has become more gratuitously salty recently.

At some point his little Chickadee is going to figure out how to find his videos on her own.

HoverBoarder 7th March 2021 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13392770)
Buffalo cops that shoved an old man and cracked his skull resulting in brain injury are cleared by grand jury.

Pigs above the law once again.

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/c...5d875af41.html

Fire up them torches, time for some riots.

So quick to advocate for domestic Terrorism as the solution again.

Captain_Swoop 7th March 2021 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoverBoarder (Post 13418298)
So quick to advocate for domestic Terrorism as the solution again.

There comes a time when the worm has to turn.

Distracted1 7th March 2021 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13418351)
There comes a time when the worm has to turn.

That is a "CHUD" of a different color.

Brainster 7th March 2021 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoverBoarder (Post 13418298)
So quick to advocate for domestic Terrorism as the solution again.

One would almost think he was a fan of violent insurrection.

johnny karate 7th March 2021 08:50 AM

Forum conservatives coming out strongly against theoretical domestic terrorism.

Unfortunately, that’s where it stops.

Shalamar 7th March 2021 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13418468)
Forum conservatives coming out strongly against theoretical domestic terrorism.

Unfortunately, that’s where it stops.

It’s only wrong when liberals (claim to want to) do it.

Just like how conservatives pretend to “back the blue” except when the conservatives are trying insurrection and the police are trying to stop it.

Liberals wanting to prevent excessive force by the police and hold them accountable = bad.

Conservatives actually performing insurrection, fighting police, all to overturn a valid and legal election = good.

Darat 7th March 2021 09:06 AM

Mod WarningFolk keep to the topic of this thread which is not insurrections, riots and so on but the behaviour of police. Plenty of other threads if you want to discuss those topics. Of course discussing police behaviour during a riot or insurrection is fine.
Posted By:Darat

HoverBoarder 7th March 2021 10:44 AM

Nothing happens in a vacuum. There has been a massive increase in crime throughout much of the US, and most of the worst increases has been focused on cities that have reduced their police forces and have taken other actions against them.

The police forces work for the community, and their job is one of the few professions where they put their lives on the line everyday to protect our safety. Without police, there would be a massive increase in deaths all throughout the community. As has been shown in times when they pull back from neighborhoods.

For a group that is putting so much in the line for us, their behavior is obviously going to change if their dedication and sacrifices are constantly ignored and they are told that they are all bastards, and they should all die. Those who choose to stay and still go out and put their lives on the line because of their dedication to the community is commendable.

Policies like defund that were intended to change police behavior have largely been massive failures, and have led to far more deaths than the police killings they were originally protesting against. A call for defund has just become a call to advocate for being a mass murderer, and the lawmakers who enacted them have blood on their hands. Those who have backtracked like in Minneapolis have to rely on the police being better people than they were.

If we really want to improve the behaviors of police and improve their relationships with the community, we have to look at some of the main reasons why the increases in violent interactions are occuring.

One explanation is that when people become police officers, their hearts automatically grow evil inside it. Or that the power they hold corrupts them into making bad decisions. That may make people feel good to think in their actions against the police, but it is obviously not a serious explanation.

The power dynamic that police hold does lead to some accuses of power, but if you look at almost all of the high profile police killings in this country, they have started with attacks on the police. Specifically the growing trend and belief that if people attack police officers, that they should receive no negative repercussions for their actions.

Many of the policies propsing to improve interactions with police, are primarily just meant to make the lawmakers and their supporters feel good about themselves, rather than going through the hard work to make serious positive changes. Especially since demonizing the police over making sound policies has such better political capital than anything that would require everyone to work together. Many times they have made the situation worse, because they do not look at the repercussions of their policies.

If we really wanted to make things better with the police we have to make a more holistic solution.

Including:

-Addressing the acceptance of attacks on the police in the community.
-Finding ways for the community and the police to increase communication and collaboration
-Address rogue PAs that refuse to prosecute crimes
-Increasing non lethal tools and options rather than reducing them
-Declare intentional attacks on police as hate crimes

johnny karate 7th March 2021 10:51 AM

No argument for improved policing is in good faith unless it addresses the abuses of power that some police engage in and the attempts to cover up these abuses that all police engage in.

johnny karate 7th March 2021 10:59 AM

Also, if we’re going to decry violent attacks against police as some kind of terrible scourge, that needs to be weighed against the deafening silence - and in some cases support - from police unions for the violent attacks against police on January 6th.

Belz... 7th March 2021 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13414874)
Instead of giving you an error, videos like this should just redirect to live streams of curling.

I think that would violate the Geneva conventions.

Aridas 7th March 2021 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13418550)
Also, if we’re going to decry violent attacks against police as some kind of terrible scourge, that needs to be weighed against the deafening silence - and in some cases support - from police unions for the violent attacks against police on January 6th.

Honestly, it should also be weighed against, for example, the quite pronounced reduction in killings by police in places where peaceful BLM protests have occurred and succeeded in getting, for example, police to be required to wear active body cams. A much less selectively one-sided consideration of the totality of the situation needs acknowledged before the points that HoverBoarder makes deserve to be treated as much other than bad faith excuses for why brazen crime by police should be ignored.

HoverBoarder 7th March 2021 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13418550)
Also, if we’re going to decry violent attacks against police as some kind of terrible scourge, that needs to be weighed against the deafening silence - and in some cases support - from police unions for the violent attacks against police on January 6th.

The violent attacks against police, and specifically the popularization of that as a reasonable tactic is the primary reason for most of the high profile lethal police encounters lately.

If the policies to address the issue don't address that, than it is clear that their primary purpose is not to prevent more deadly encounters from happening in the future, but rather the pursuit of dishonest moral superiority by demonizing police.

HoverBoarder 7th March 2021 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13418544)
No argument for improved policing is in good faith unless it addresses the abuses of power that some police engage in and the attempts to cover up these abuses that all police engage in.

I would agree with that. That is certainly something that needs to be addressed. However many of the solutions are very one sided, and not collaborative. If we want the policies involving police to be effective, than we need to involve the police in them.

Most people are not bad people inherently, they are primarily just products of their environment. When you push the public and police into such a polarized sides, people are naturally going to protect their own. Especially when one side is consistently calling for the murder of the other side.

Many of the policies meant to improve police behavior, have not only not worked, but they have just resulted in under policing and the unnecessary deaths that go along with that.

If the primary purpose of those policies does not address the primary reason for those killings, than there is going to be no improvement on the issue. The police may improve their own tactics, but as long as it is acceptable and encouraged to attack them and in many cases try to kill them, than there still will be unnecessary violence because of that.

Aridas 7th March 2021 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoverBoarder (Post 13418638)
I would agree with that. That is certainly something that needs to be addressed. However many of the solutions are very one sided, and not collaborative. If we want the policies involving police to be effective, than we need to involve the police in them.

Last I heard, that's been done over and over - with the police, as an organization, happily ignoring every bit of unenforced accountability that they could. Of course police should be involved in policies involving them, but, by the evidence, honesty and good faith on the police's side simply cannot be relied upon. Period. That creates a distinctly unpleasant situation all around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoverBoarder (Post 13418638)
Most people are not bad people inherently, they are primarily just products of their environment. When you push the public and police into such a polarized sides, people are naturally going to protect their own.

A base problem there, of course, is that the police were already actively working to "protect their own" and much of what immensely less centralized and organized polarization there is on the public's side is simply a reaction to that "protection" being at extremely problematic levels that allow police to literally get away with murder scot-free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoverBoarder (Post 13418638)
Especially when one side is consistently calling for the murder of the other side.

This statement, however, is overwhelmingly dishonest in how you're clearly using it. "The public" is NOT ******* calling for the murder of the police. The rest of your post seems to rest upon that lie and, as such, can simply be ignored.


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