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-   -   FBI Warns of Right-Wing Mass Destruction Terrorism (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347132)

Stacyhs 4th October 2020 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 13246811)
Um no.

It tends to come from both sides in the US.

Odd old place the US

Um, not so much. The vast majority of this kind of thinking comes from the far right, not the left.

Craig4 4th October 2020 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes (Post 13246836)
Could happen. Seems most every cop in the nation is friendly to the Proud Boys and envy the freedom to pound liberals at will. In the case of the goons taking over, Russia, Turkey, Poland, Hungary, the Saudis and Bolsonaro's Brazil, plus a few more, will cheer. Not a strong enough alliance of strategic interests, as this excludes both the EU and China. More of a losers club.

Whatever happens, it will be a very close call between private interests and the public interest. Will the 0.1% go for Hitler 2.0?

I promise you that the police agencies in DC are not friendly with The Proud Boys or any other white nationalists.

Hlafordlaes 4th October 2020 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig4 (Post 13247196)
I promise you that the police agencies in DC are not friendly with The Proud Boys or any other white nationalists.

DC Police are special, unique in the region. MD and VA are another story.

Craig4 7th October 2020 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes (Post 13247229)
DC Police are special, unique in the region. MD and VA are another story.

Depends. In Prince Georges and Montgomery County the police are more like those in DC. Alexandria/Arlington police won't go be sympathetic to white nationalist. You're right though as you get farther south and west of DC. Being a white nationalist north of DC, getting into the Baltimore metro area would be assisted suicide. Baltimore cops don't discriminate; they'll kill anyone.

The Great Zaganza 8th October 2020 09:30 AM

And it has started:


https://eu.freep.com/story/news/loca...ia/5921409002/

Milita group planned to kidnap Governor Gretchen Whitmer, according to the FBI.
Six people arrested.

Hlafordlaes 8th October 2020 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig4 (Post 13251297)
Depends. In Prince Georges and Montgomery County the police are more like those in DC. Alexandria/Arlington police won't go be sympathetic to white nationalist. You're right though as you get farther south and west of DC. Being a white nationalist north of DC, getting into the Baltimore metro area would be assisted suicide. Baltimore cops don't discriminate; they'll kill anyone.

I think I ran into some difficulties into every county in MD, mostly traffic-related, and VA was a no-go zone. WVA, back in the day, was actually nicer. If you can believe it, back when it was National Airport and you could drive right up to a traffic circle at the main terminal, I use to practice spin and skid control when it rained or snowed. Place was entirely closed, or almost so, at night, so nobody around. Think I saw local security doing the same thing more than once. But the DC-MD line... ah, one of legend, with the Park Police thrown in for good measure. In DC the only real thing was not getting hit with a mega parking ticket, OMG.:eye-poppi

Heck of a lot less traffic then. Maybe less than half, especially at night.

ETA: Favorite all-time encounter with Park Police was going up Capital Hill driving a Tourmobile. Damn things had busted engines and could barely crawl up, so you had to be bold when the traffic light in the middle turned yellow, and pray. Not that there was any meaningful traffic coming up that side street. Rookie new on the job pulled me over for no license plates (we had none), running the light, and so on. Real hot day, real hot. Swamp-humid, as the Mall can get. Eighty passengers suddenly with no breeze through the side windows, no AC, and pissed off at the cop. Black guy. I sympathized because I knew the powers that be would wave a wand when he called it in, so I wasn't all that upset. Got a lesson in how midwesterners can whisper racist curses as they disembarked... at the Capital Building. Hoooweee! ... Man was my narrator that day hot, too, as I recall, and my age. Good times.

Then there were the female tourists and free-lance narrators looking for one-night cowboys... Cushy job, pre-AIDS. Paradise, I believe they call it. Paid for my Masters at Georgetown.

Captain_Swoop 8th October 2020 10:06 AM

(Detroit News) - The FBI thwarted what they described as a plot to violently overthrow the government and kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and federal prosecutors are expected to discuss the alleged conspiracy later Thursday.

Quote:

The court filing also alleges the conspirators twice conducted surveillance at Whitmer's personal vacation home and discussed kidnapping her to a "secure location" in Wisconsin to stand "trial" for treason prior to the Nov. 3 election.

"Several members talked about murdering 'tyrants' or 'taking' a sitting governor," an FBI agent wrote in the affidavit. "The group decided they needed to increase their numbers and encouraged each other to talk to their neighbors and spread their message."
https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/new...er/5922301002/


Trump tweeted om 17th April
LIBERATE MICHIGAN!

The_Animus 8th October 2020 10:47 AM

Quite a distinction between the left and right. The left riots for the equal treatment of black people and their right not to be murdered by police.

The right wants to kidnap and overthrow democratically elected government because they have to wear masks during a pandemic.

SuburbanTurkey 8th October 2020 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Animus (Post 13251749)
Quite a distinction between the left and right. The left riots for the equal treatment of black people and their right not to be murdered by police.

The right wants to kidnap and overthrow democratically elected government because they have to wear masks during a pandemic.

It's no contest. Left wing groups that take illegal direct action usually do not have the goal of murdering people. ALF might sabotage a farm or break into a lab, but they aren't going to walk into a church and gun down people based on their race.

Right wingers are the #1 domestic terror threat in this country and have been for decades.

Quote:

To evaluate the ongoing threat from different types of terrorists, however, it is useful to consider the proportion of fatalities attributed to each type of perpetrator annually. In 14 of the 21 years between 1994 and 2019 in which fatal terrorist attacks occurred, the majority of deaths resulted from right-wing attacks. In eight of these years, right-wing attackers caused all of the fatalities, and in three more—including 2018 and 2019—they were responsible for more than 90 percent of annual fatalities.11 Therefore, while religious terrorists caused the largest number of total fatalities, right-wing attackers were most likely to cause more deaths in a given year.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escala...-united-states

rockysmith76 8th October 2020 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13251786)
It's no contest. Left wing groups that take illegal direct action usually do not have the goal of murdering people. ALF might sabotage a farm or break into a lab, but they aren't going to walk into a church and gun down people based on their race.

Right wingers are the #1 domestic terror threat in this country and have been for decades.



https://www.csis.org/analysis/escala...-united-states

The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA.

SuburbanTurkey 8th October 2020 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13251789)
The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA.

Individual right wing gunmen have killed more people than years of total combined attacks by the left. It's quite clear where the most dangerous terrorists come from, and it's from radicalized right.

Stacyhs 8th October 2020 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13251789)
The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA.

Not supported by facts or evidence. This, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, suggests the lack of deaths is entirely due to intent:

Quote:

In fact, with dozens of terrorist attacks causing an estimated $30 million in damages since 1997 — the ELF disavows harm to "any animal, human or non-human," and so far, apparently, has not caused any

rockysmith76 8th October 2020 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13251807)
Not supported by facts or evidence. This, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, suggests the lack of deaths is entirely due to intent:

Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck.

JoeMorgue 8th October 2020 11:49 AM

Yeah if you think 2+2=a potato a textbook that says "2+2=4" is a biased source to you.

"Bias" is the most basic bedrock need for living in a post-fact world. Nobody is allowed to tell you that you are wrong because them disagreeing with you makes them "biased."

Stacyhs 8th October 2020 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13251815)
Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck.

If 'dozens of terrorist acts' all end in no deaths out of sheer luck, then I want to go to Vegas and gamble with these guys cuz, lord a mighty, they got the luck o' the Irish.

Captain_Swoop 8th October 2020 12:25 PM

Whitmer: "Our head of state has spent the past 7 months denying science, ignoring his own health experts, stoking distrust, fomenting anger, & giving comfort to those who spread fear ... just last week, POTUS stood before the people and refused to condemn white supremacists."

Firestone 8th October 2020 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13251864)
Whitmer: "Our head of state has spent the past 7 months denying science, ignoring his own health experts, stoking distrust, fomenting anger, & giving comfort to those who spread fear ... just last week, POTUS stood before the people and refused to condemn white supremacists."

Jason Miller (Trump campaign) reacts: "If we want to talk about hatred, then Gov. Whitmer, go look in the mirror! The fact that she wakes up every day with such hatred in her heart towards President Trump"

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...684572674?s=19

Stacyhs 8th October 2020 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firestone (Post 13251868)
Jason Miller (Trump campaign) reacts: "If we want to talk about hatred, then Gov. Whitmer, go look in the mirror! The fact that she wakes up every day with such hatred in her heart towards President Trump"

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...684572674?s=19

What an idiot. He should remember that old adage "It's better to be suspected a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Hlafordlaes 8th October 2020 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13251815)
Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck.

Hardly the same. But let's grant you your point. Now condemn this plan to engage in violent acts of terror and armed sedition against Whitmer in equal terms, adding the severity the "step up" in targets deserves.

Lurch 8th October 2020 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13251815)
Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck.

If it was purely down to luck only, then statistics would suggest some accidental killings or maiming.

In the end, though, results count for something. Leftists haven't killed, whereas rightists have.

Which form or terrorism would you prefer? Lefties blessed with the good luck to avoid casualties, or righties that are competent at killing?

dudalb 8th October 2020 01:31 PM

SO terrorism is OK if the left does it?
That seems to be the belief of a lot of people here.

JoeMorgue 8th October 2020 01:32 PM

Even at face value (which we're nowhere near with arguments from Right) "I'm going to be violent to make the world a better place" and "I'm going to be violent to keep the world a worse place" are not morally equal.

And which is Right? Is the Left a bunch of snowflakes who need safe spaces or violent unhinged revolutionaries?

Stacyhs 8th October 2020 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13251936)
SO terrorism is OK if the left does it?
That seems to be the belief of a lot of people here.

I fail to see how you came to that conclusion based on what's been said here. No one said it's OK. It's certainly not mine.

ETA: Please identify those you think hold that belief.

dudalb 8th October 2020 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13251945)
I fail to see how you came to that conclusion based on what's been said here. No one said it's OK. It's certainly not mine.

ETA: Please identify those you think hold that belief.

Th eones basically makiing excuses for the ELF. if they hasve not killed somebody iy id putr luvk. That might not be t heir aim, but the methods they use certainly have the high potential of killing people.

jerrywayne 8th October 2020 01:45 PM

Governor Whitmer's statement:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mi...?ocid=msedgntp

13 members of two militias charged.

jerrywayne 8th October 2020 01:57 PM

More from the governor: Trump complicit.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/go...?ocid=msedgdhp

jerrywayne 8th October 2020 02:06 PM

Nancy Pelosi is saying she will talk about the 25th Amendment tomorrow. She's giving fuel to the militia movement, imho.

Captain_Swoop 8th October 2020 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firestone (Post 13251868)
Jason Miller (Trump campaign) reacts: "If we want to talk about hatred, then Gov. Whitmer, go look in the mirror! The fact that she wakes up every day with such hatred in her heart towards President Trump"

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...684572674?s=19

I wonder what inspires people to try and kill her?

johnny karate 8th October 2020 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13251789)
The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA.

Yes, ELF would be more dangerous if they were more dangerous. :rolleyes:

It’s like you listened to Pence’s swine flu argument last night and didn’t realize it was moronic.

thaiboxerken 8th October 2020 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrywayne (Post 13251974)
Nancy Pelosi is saying she will talk about the 25th Amendment tomorrow. She's giving fuel to the militia movement, imho.

Voting Trump out will fuel the militia movement....

This doesn't mean we shouldn't vote the MF out.

johnny karate 8th October 2020 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrywayne (Post 13251974)
Nancy Pelosi is saying she will talk about the 25th Amendment tomorrow. She's giving fuel to the militia movement, imho.

And they’ve been so well-behaved up until now.

Stacyhs 8th October 2020 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13251949)
Th eones basically makiing excuses for the ELF. if they hasve not killed somebody iy id putr luvk. That might not be t heir aim, but the methods they use certainly have the high potential of killing people.

I think I see your problem. By stating the fact that no one has been killed in the dozens of act of terrorism enacted by ELF which suggest intent rather than luck, you infer that means we think the acts themselves are OK. Um...no.

Of course their methods have the potential to kill people. But so far they haven't. That is not something you can say about the right wing acts of terrorism.

Stacyhs 8th October 2020 02:21 PM

I think we're at the stage where Trump needs to be assessed by a mental health team whether he agrees to it or not.

Distracted1 8th October 2020 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13251937)
Even at face value (which we're nowhere near with arguments from Right) "I'm going to be violent to make the world a better place" and "I'm going to be violent to keep the world a worse place" are not morally equal.

And which is Right? Is the Left a bunch of snowflakes who need safe spaces or violent unhinged revolutionaries?

You highlight a reason why many find much to criticize on either end of this spectrum. "being violent" unnecessarily makes the world a worse place all by itself.

JoeMorgue 8th October 2020 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distracted1 (Post 13252000)
You highlight a reason why many find much to criticize on either end of this spectrum. "being violent" unnecessarily makes the world a worse place all by itself.

Oh pishtosh, balderdash, hogwash, and other assorted old timey swear words.

People punching you in the face always want to lecture you about "your" violence whenever you punch them back.

We didn't stop the Nazis by "using our words." Black people didn't stop being property because of a "civil debate among equals."

Distracted1 8th October 2020 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13252017)
Oh pishtosh, balderdash, hogwash, and other assorted old timey swear words.

People punching you in the face always want to lecture you about "your" violence whenever you punch them back.

We didn't stop the Nazis by "using our words." Black people didn't stop being property because of a "civil debate among equals."

Can't get that government boot off our necks without blowing up a few federal buildings then, I guess.

JoeMorgue 8th October 2020 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distracted1 (Post 13252021)
Can't get that government boot off our necks without blowing up a few federal buildings then, I guess.

Well tell you what when that happens we'll have a nice, deep conversation about with all the hair splitting and pettifogging and forced obtuseness and false equivalency your little heart desires.

But as it stands now it's the government's boot that has people planning to kidnap and assassination governors in order to protect it so.... *makes scurry off gesture*

Dread Pirate Roberts 8th October 2020 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13251995)
I think we're at the stage where Trump needs to be assessed by a mental health team whether he agrees to it or not.

From your lips to Pelosi's ears


Quote:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Rep. Jamie B. Raskin (D-Md.) plan to introduce legislation Friday that would create a commission to “help ensure effective and uninterrupted leadership” in the presidency.

The panel would be called the Commission on Presidential Capacity to Discharge the Powers and Duties of Office, “the body and process called for in the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution,” the offices of Pelosi and Raskin said in a statement announcing the move.

The 25th Amendment formalizes that the vice president takes over the duties of the presidency in the event of a president’s death, inability to perform his duties or resignation from office. It also lays out a process by which a sitting president may be removed from office. Congress’s role in this, however, is limited.

Mader Levap 8th October 2020 03:16 PM

This kind of thing will trigger Trump even more, making him say even more unhinged things.

In other words, it's Friday in murica.

Distracted1 8th October 2020 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13252031)
Well tell you what when that happens we'll have a nice, deep conversation about with all the hair splitting and pettifogging and forced obtuseness and false equivalency your little heart desires.

But as it stands now it's the government's boot that has people planning to kidnap and assassination governors in order to protect it so.... *makes scurry off gesture*

Funny, I consider "Governors" to be part of the government. Something to do with spelling, I suppose.


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