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-   -   What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners'? (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324594)

dann 17th July 2018 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12363622)
That's the point of the thread! And I think that the NYT article about the minds of rapists already delivered some good answers.


You don't even know which NYT article I'm talking about, Sabrina, do you?!

JoeMorgue 17th July 2018 12:43 PM

Dann,

How many people exactly have to tell you that you aren't making sense before the possibility that, at very least, you aren't doing a perfect job of communicating it is at least something you'll consider?

dann 17th July 2018 02:14 PM

Your argument is just as persuasive as Ron's and Sabrine's. Does that answer your question?

dann 17th July 2018 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isissxn (Post 12365457)
What the hell is this. Dann, if you think you are making sense, you are not. No offense intended. But seriously, you are mocking people for giving you answers you consider flippant while seemingly going out of your way to be as inscrutable as possible. The highlighter isn't helping matters.


So you think that I'm mocking Sabine when I point out that she bases her idea on the discussion in this thread on Ron Tomkins' summary? This is his contribution to the discussion: post 108.

xjx388 17th July 2018 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12365579)
So you think that I'm mocking Sabine when I point out that she bases her idea on the discussion in this thread on Ron Tomkins' summary? This is his contribution to the discussion: post 108.



IMO, you aren’t making sense because a large number of your posts are 1)Borderline incoherent and 2)Argumentative and mocking -you just hand-wave away as wrong any earnest attempts to answer your question. It’s as if you don’t really want to have a discussion, which is non-sensical on a discussion forum.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Butter! 17th July 2018 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12365579)
So you think that I'm mocking Sabine when I point out that she bases her idea on the discussion in this thread on Ron Tomkins' summary? This is his contribution to the discussion: post 108.

Honestly? I have no idea. I have no idea what you're asking me.

I'm not being cheeky. You aren't making sense.

AlaskaBushPilot 18th July 2018 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12365452)

No, it couldn't be childhood abuse. No, it couldn't be a chemical imbalance, it couldn't have been that they're just wired wrong (whatever that's supposed to mean) and it couldn't have been a genetic component that we (?!) haven't isolated yet ... unless you have some valid reason to assume that any of these things make people enjoy raping.

Count me in with the problem of incoherency.

WTF? Assume? That's the status of the science on the subject. Everyone else seems to get this "Rapist 101" science.

Earlier you also seemed to have a garbled view of what "nature" is. All the greats like Richard Kuklinsky (mob assassin), Ted Bundy (Sexual Sadist, murderer), Gary Ridgeway, Jeffrey Dahmer, etc. are "natural". Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao - all natural, and all mass murderers. Idi Amin, Jim Jones, and BTK: all natural. Sick and perverted but nevertheless natural.

We can speak in layman's terms, that "unnatural" means extremely rare in the population. But that doesn't negate the biological genetics of it.

The prototype personalities for serial rape, let alone the one-off offenders, are in the millions. Psychopaths alone are 1-2% of the population.

Rape as a military strategy isn't something that's come up yet, but there is also a whole literature on that. It is so straightforward at the core it hardly needs elucidation: kill the men, rape the women, enslave the kids and castrate the ones you don't want breeding.

You've already ignored the post I did on rape as a genetic propagation strategy, the most successful of all time being Genghis Khan. You've ignored history. Slaves could be legally raped. So owners raped them. droit du seigneur, same thing for vassals of the Feudal Lord. Without the sanction of society and law, there's a lot more rape. It is apparently enjoyable to a lot more people than we would like, and you have to put people in jail for it or else.

Sabrina 18th July 2018 05:32 AM

The exact title of this thread is, "What makes some people want to have sex with 'unwilling partners'?" I had assumed that was the question that dann was trying to have answered. I offered my theory(ies), and dann has apparently dismissed them without trying to offer any evidence as to WHY he/she thinks my theory(ies) are wrong.

Again, each rapist is most likely individual in their reason(s) for raping another. Some commonalities can be found across the board, but even with recent advances in medical science and the ability to scan the brain WE DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH to make any kind of determination as to an over-arching reason for why these individuals enjoy the process of forcing sex on another person. This is why I made that determination for myself, and thus far dann, you have provided exactly NO evidence to dispute my theory. To support mine though, I will point to the following:

A study by the NIH finding abnormalities in the brains of rapists.

A compilation of several studies which support my assertion that there is no one profile of rapists. Some of the key takeaways:

Quote:

No two sex offenders are exactly alike. In fact, one sexual assault expert said that ‘sex offenders
comprise an extremely heterogeneous population that cannot be characterized by single
motivational or etiological factors’ (Schwartz, 1995). However, sex offenders often exhibit some
similar characteristics:

-Men are more likely to commit sexual violence in communities where sexual violence goes unpunished. (National Sexual Violence Resource Center, 2004).

-Sex offenders minimize their number of victims. Speaking with 99 male sex offenders, court records showed 136 victims between them, but later during treatment, they eventually confessed to 959 victims between them (Slicner, 2007).

-Sex offenders are experts in rationalizing their behavior. (Slicner, 2007)

-There is no “typical profile” of a rapist. Many defense attorneys will talk about whether their client, the alleged assailant, either fits the profile of a rapist or doesn’t. This is an invalid argument because there is no typical profile of a rapist. This is why it is good to focus on that person’s behavior instead of who they are in their community (Maas, 2007).

-Example: Ted Bundy was an A student, volunteered for his university’s suicide prevention center, and was active in the church. Does this sound like someone who would ‘fit the profile’ of a violent person?
A Wikipedia summarization of causes of sexual violence. A couple of key takeways:

Quote:

Causes of sexual violence are debated and explanations of the cause include military conquest, socioeconomics, anger, power, sadism, sexual pleasure, psychopathy, ethical standards, laws, attitudes toward the victims and evolutionary pressures.

Clinical psychologist Nicholas Groth has described several different types of rape. A detailed conceptual analysis shows that objectification might underlie denial of agency and personhood that leads to rape.

The research on convicted rapists has found several important motivational factors in the sexual aggression of males. Those motivational factors repeatedly implicated are having anger at women and having the need to control or dominate them.Additionally, As reported by several rapists thay they are finely attracted by the wearings of women.[28]

A study by Marshall et al. (2001) found that male rapists had less empathy toward women who had been sexually assaulted by an unknown assailant and more hostility toward women than non-sex-offenders and nonoffender males/females.[29]

The research on convicted rapists has found several important motivational factors in the sexual aggression of males. Those motivational factors repeatedly implicated are having anger at women and having the need to control or dominate them.Additionally, As reported by several rapists thay they are finely attracted by the wearings of women.[28]

The research on convicted rapists has found several important motivational factors in the sexual aggression of males. Those motivational factors repeatedly implicated are having anger at women and having the need to control or dominate them. Additionally, As reported by several rapists thay they are finely attracted by the wearings of women. A study by Marshall et al. (2001) found that male rapists had less empathy toward women who had been sexually assaulted by an unknown assailant and more hostility toward women than non-sex-offenders and nonoffender males/females. Meta-analyses indicate that convicted rapists demonstrate greater sexual arousal to scenes of sexual coercion involving force than do non-rapists.

There is evidence to suggest that sexual violence is also a learned behavior in some adults, particularly as regards child sexual abuse. Studies on sexually abused boys have shown that around one in five continue in later life to molest children themselves. Such experiences may lead to a pattern of behavior where the man regularly justifies being violent, denies doing wrong, and has false and unhealthy notions about sexuality. Childhood environments that are physically violent, emotionally unsupportive and characterized by competition for scarce resources have been associated with sexual violence. Sexually aggressive behavior in young men, for instance, has been linked to witnessing family violence, and having emotionally distant and uncaring fathers. Men raised in families with strongly patriarchal structures are also more likely to become violent, to rape and use sexual coercion against women, as well as to abuse their intimate partners, than men raised in homes that are more egalitarian.

Factors operating at a societal level that influence sexual violence include laws and national policies relating to gender equality in general and to sexual violence more specifically, as well as norms relating to the use of violence. While the various factors operate largely at local level, within families, schools, workplaces and communities, there are also influences from the laws and norms working at national and even international level.

Sexual violence committed by men is to a large extent rooted in ideologies of male sexual entitlement. These belief systems grant women extremely few legitimate options to refuse sexual advances. Some men thus simply exclude the possibility that their sexual advances towards a woman might be rejected or that a woman has the right to make an autonomous decision about participating in sex.

Males who under some circumstances used force may have had greater reproductive success in the ancestral environment than males who did not employ force. Sociobiological theories of rape are theories that explore to what degree, if any, evolutionary adaptations influence the psychology of rapists. Such theories are highly controversial, as traditional theories typically do not consider rape to be a behavioral adaptation. Some object to such theories on ethical, religious, political as well as scientific grounds. Others argue that a correct knowledge of the causes of rape is necessary in order to develop effective preventive measures. There is extensive research on sexual coercion.
There you go; several sources which support my theory(ies) regarding why some people want to have sex with unwilling partners (again; the title of this thread, so I am answering your question, dann). Basically, to sum this post if you're the TL;DR type, experts in the field are pretty much in agreement that each person who rapes (i.e. forces sex on an unwilling partner in any manner) has separate reason(s) why they rape another, although some commonalities can typically be found across cases, although those commonalities are not enough to build a profile of a so-called "typical rapist".

There. Refute that, if you can. And please don't just pooh-pooh the response and categorically deny it without offering contrasting evidence, please and thank you.

Ron_Tomkins 18th July 2018 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12365576)
Your argument is just as persuasive as Ron's and Sabrine's. Does that answer your question?

Who's Sabrine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12365579)
So you think that I'm mocking Sabine

Who's Sabine?

Sabrina 18th July 2018 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12366237)
Who's Sabrine?



Who's Sabine?

Suddenly I'm French; cool.

Sabrina 19th July 2018 05:10 AM

No response? Nothing?

Usually get something faster than this.

Sabrina 22nd July 2018 01:52 PM

Well, either dann has taken a minor hiatus from the board, or I answered his/her question finally.

sphenisc 22nd July 2018 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12366237)


Who's Sabine?

The perpetrators names live on in infamy. How quickly we forget the victims...

qayak 22nd July 2018 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabrina (Post 12366147)
The exact title of this thread is, "What makes some people want to have sex with 'unwilling partners'?" I had assumed that was the question that dann was trying to have answered. I offered my theory(ies), and dann has apparently dismissed them without trying to offer any evidence as to WHY he/she thinks my theory(ies) are wrong.

Again, each rapist is most likely individual in their reason(s) for raping another. Some commonalities can be found across the board, but even with recent advances in medical science and the ability to scan the brain WE DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH to make any kind of determination as to an over-arching reason for why these individuals enjoy the process of forcing sex on another person. This is why I made that determination for myself, and thus far dann, you have provided exactly NO evidence to dispute my theory. To support mine though, I will point to the following:

A study by the NIH finding abnormalities in the brains of rapists.

A compilation of several studies which support my assertion that there is no one profile of rapists. Some of the key takeaways:



A Wikipedia summarization of causes of sexual violence. A couple of key takeways:



There you go; several sources which support my theory(ies) regarding why some people want to have sex with unwilling partners (again; the title of this thread, so I am answering your question, dann). Basically, to sum this post if you're the TL;DR type, experts in the field are pretty much in agreement that each person who rapes (i.e. forces sex on an unwilling partner in any manner) has separate reason(s) why they rape another, although some commonalities can typically be found across cases, although those commonalities are not enough to build a profile of a so-called "typical rapist".

There. Refute that, if you can. And please don't just pooh-pooh the response and categorically deny it without offering contrasting evidence, please and thank you.

Yours, and ABP's, are excellent posts. Too often genetics are left out of the equation. The same thing that makes us men causes a certain percentage to be rapists under the right curcumstances. From a female point of view it is all about power. But studies show that from a male point of view it is mostly about pleasure.

It's easy to comprehend the monster who rapes but harder to comprehend the "good guy" who does the same. You can't do much about the genetics but you can nip most of it in the bud by changing the environment.

dann 23rd July 2018 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot (Post 12365994)
Count me in with the problem of incoherency.

WTF? Assume? That's the status of the science on the subject. Everyone else seems to get this "Rapist 101" science.


Everyone seems to get what?!

Quote:

Earlier you also seemed to have a garbled view of what "nature" is. All the greats like Richard Kuklinsky (mob assassin), Ted Bundy (Sexual Sadist, murderer), Gary Ridgeway, Jeffrey Dahmer, etc. are "natural". Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao - all natural, and all mass murderers. Idi Amin, Jim Jones, and BTK: all natural. Sick and perverted but nevertheless natural.

Did anybody claim that they were robots or AIs?

Quote:

We can speak in layman's terms, that "unnatural" means extremely rare in the population. But that doesn't negate the biological genetics of it.

It also doesn't confirm that it's a question of genetics, which appears to be what you think.

Quote:

The prototype personalities for serial rape, let alone the one-off offenders, are in the millions. Psychopaths alone are 1-2% of the population.

And so what?

Quote:

Rape as a military strategy isn't something that's come up yet, but there is also a whole literature on that. It is so straightforward at the core it hardly needs elucidation: kill the men, rape the women, enslave the kids and castrate the ones you don't want breeding.

And what does that do to your natural/genetical idea?

Quote:

You've already ignored the post I did on rape as a genetic propagation strategy, the most successful of all time being Genghis Khan.

No, I don't think I did. But I think that you should familiarize yourself with the "Genghis Khan" meme.

Quote:

You've ignored history. Slaves could be legally raped. So owners raped them.

No, some owners raped them, others weren't really into that kind of thing - even when it was legal. (And again: What does that do to your natural/genetical argument? Do you argue that legislation is genetical?)

Quote:

droit du seigneur, same thing for vassals of the Feudal Lord. Without the sanction of society and law, there's a lot more rape. It is apparently enjoyable to a lot more people than we would like, and you have to put people in jail for it or else.

And are things you have to put people in jail for natural/genetical? Do you have a point?

dann 23rd July 2018 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabrina (Post 12366147)
The exact title of this thread is, "What makes some people want to have sex with 'unwilling partners'?" I had assumed that was the question that dann was trying to have answered. I offered my theory(ies), and dann has apparently dismissed them without trying to offer any evidence as to WHY he/she thinks my theory(ies) are wrong.


You never really offered any theories, you offered words like "chemical imbalance". When I asked you to come up with evidence for your 'theories' (a couple of times, so far), you gave us nothing.

Quote:

Again, each rapist is most likely individual in their reason(s) for raping another. Some commonalities can be found across the board, but even with recent advances in medical science and the ability to scan the brain WE DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH to make any kind of determination as to an over-arching reason for why these individuals enjoy the process of forcing sex on another person. This is why I made that determination for myself, and thus far dann, you have provided exactly NO evidence to dispute my theory. To support mine though, I will point to the following:

A study by the NIH finding abnormalities in the brains of rapists.

A compilation of several studies which support my assertion that there is no one profile of rapists. Some of the key takeaways:

So again your point seems to be to prove that there is no "over-arching reason", i.e. that there is "no one profile of rapists". Now all you have to do is to come up with a reference to me claiming, highlander style, that there can be only one!

Quote:

A Wikipedia summarization of causes of sexual violence. A couple of key takeways:


There you go; several sources which support my theory(ies) regarding why some people want to have sex with unwilling partners (again; the title of this thread, so I am answering your question, dann). Basically, to sum this post if you're the TL;DR type, experts in the field are pretty much in agreement that each person who rapes (i.e. forces sex on an unwilling partner in any manner) has separate reason(s) why they rape another, although some commonalities can typically be found across cases, although those commonalities are not enough to build a profile of a so-called "typical rapist".

Yes, and those commonalities are what we're looking for, those of us who are actually interested in this question. (And there was a very good NYT article about it a couple of pages ago, but for you this thread appears to be tl;dr, right?!)

Quote:

There. Refute that, if you can. And please don't just pooh-pooh the response and categorically deny it without offering contrasting evidence, please and thank you.

Refute what exactly? Your theory or your theories? That there can be only one? (i.e. your own strawman)

dann 23rd July 2018 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qayak (Post 12370800)
Yours, and ABP's, are excellent posts. Too often genetics are left out of the equation. The same thing that makes us men causes a certain percentage to be rapists under the right curcumstances.


So the male genitalia are to blame?!

Quote:

From a female point of view it is all about power. But studies show that from a male point of view it is mostly about pleasure.

"... studies show …??!

Quote:

It's easy to comprehend the monster who rapes but harder to comprehend the "good guy" who does the same. You can't do much about the genetics but you can nip most of it in the bud by changing the environment.

You'll just love xjx388's situational callousness … I think that he considers the situation to be the environment, but you'll have to ask him since he's the one who coined the phrase.

Sabrina 23rd July 2018 05:27 AM

So we're back to ignoring the evidence presented then? Not even going to click links to read and try to refute?

Ron, apparently I owe you an apology. You were right.

Roboramma 23rd July 2018 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabrina (Post 12371130)
So we're back to ignoring the evidence presented then? Not even going to click links to read and try to refute?

To refute what? If I am reading his last post correctly dann is saying that you haven't actually disagreed with anything he's said.

I might be misinterpreting him, but if that's the case, there'd be no reason for him to attempt to refute the things you've said, as he doesn't disagree with them, he only disagrees with your characterisation of his argument.

qayak 23rd July 2018 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12371054)
So the male genitalia are to blame?!




"... studies show …??!




You'll just love xjx388's situational callousness … I think that he considers the situation to be the environment, but you'll have to ask him since he's the one who coined the phrase.

You seem to have an agenda to further. Facts are facts, dude. Your opinion on the subject doesn't hold up to the slightest scrutiny.

qayak 23rd July 2018 05:47 PM

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...viously-known/


Quote:

And, because we had previously shown that nearly one million incidents of sexual victimization happen in our nation’s prisons and jails each year, we knew that no analysis of sexual victimization in the U.S. would be complete without a look at sexual abuse happening behind bars. We found that, contrary to assumptions, the biggest threat to women serving time does not come from male corrections staff. Instead, female victims are more than three times as likely to experience sexual abuse by other women inmates than by male staff.

Also surprisingly, women inmates are more likely to be abused by other inmates than are male inmates, disrupting the long held view that sexual violence in prison is mainly about men assaulting men. In juvenile corrections facilities, female staff are also a much more significant threat than male staff; more than nine in ten juveniles who reported staff sexual victimization were abused by a woman
.

Roboramma 23rd July 2018 06:54 PM

Thanks very interesting and not what I would have guessed. Thanks for posting it qayak.

AlaskaBushPilot 26th July 2018 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roboramma (Post 12372016)
Thanks very interesting and not what I would have guessed. Thanks for posting it qayak.

Ditto for the thanks, and it is not surprising given the data on domestic violence now that I think about it.

AlaskaBushPilot 27th July 2018 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12362448)

And this is the point that I think that all the advocates of coerced sex miss with their pseudo-Darwinian arguments: Nature actually made sex enjoyable for both parties! So if you want to experience the pleasure of having sex, all you need to do is find somebody you would like to have it with who would also like to have it with you.

This is just calling people stupid. "All you need to do".

Go ahead and explain why there are millions of people who would like to have sex but can't find someone to have it willingly with them.

Most forego sex with another person and masturbate to my likeness, both male and female.

Gary Ridgeway, Ted Bundy, etc: a lot of the greats had relationships or were married and went about raping/killing dozens of people while they carried on what their partner believed to be a normal loving relationship.

Sabrina has given lots of material on various motivations for rape, there's plenty of variety.

dann really, you have such a puerile assertion here, the very existence of rape contradicts it.

Butter! 27th July 2018 11:28 AM

Delete. Maybe I misunderstood. Idc

calebprime 27th July 2018 11:32 AM

...

Ron_Tomkins 30th July 2018 07:30 AM

So Dann, do you have a basic idea of what you would like the Grand Unifying Theory of what Makes People Want to Have Sex with Unwilling Partners to look like? If you give us a rough schematic idea, we can probably start constructing an answer that would satisfy you (That's what she said).

Butter! 31st July 2018 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12378416)
So Dann, do you have a basic idea of what you would like the Grand Unifying Theory of what Makes People Want to Have Sex with Unwilling Partners to look like? If you give us a rough schematic idea, we can probably start constructing an answer that would satisfy you (That's what she said).

I think the answer is supposed to be one of the below:

What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners?'

a.) Omg, I can't understand it either! It's beyond understanding, terrible.

b.) They don't actually enjoy it - enjoying it is impossible, something else is driving them.

c.) They are just Complete Monsters, but trying to analyze just what that means makes you an advocate of forced sex and a poopyhead!

I've narrowed it down to these possibilities by process of elimination.

AlaskaBushPilot 31st July 2018 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isissxn (Post 12379864)
I think the answer is supposed to be one of the below:

What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners?'

a.) Omg, I can't understand it either! It's beyond understanding, terrible.

b.) They don't actually enjoy it - enjoying it is impossible, something else is driving them.

c.) They are just Complete Monsters, but trying to analyze just what that means makes you an advocate of forced sex and a poopyhead!

I've narrowed it down to these possibilities by process of elimination.

Well, yes - it is incoherent. So the fascination becomes what is the poster doing. No accusation of nefarious intent here - but curiousity about what explaines the incoherency.

I accept other people work differently from me. The evidence is overwhelming.

I have a morbid fascination with Serial Killers. Although my favorite is not considered one because he was a mob hit man. Kuklinsky. But he didn't rape victims. He was an assassin. And I understand exactly what created him. He doesn't feel one way or the other about his victims, it neither thrills him nor bothers him. It's the money.

But a lot of the greats (sarcasm) were rapists. Cannibals. Sadists.

If you have difficulty "understanding" then look at people like Leonard Lake and Charles Ng. The Miranda Project: Lake wrote a book about their intentions, so there's no mistaking the horror.

and there are one-off rapists who got drunk with a woman and went too far. You have sex with barnyard animals going on, and it's been going on for thousands of years. Everything from A to Z.

The fact one does not rape barn animals should not prohibit one from acknowledging people who do are wired differently. It's self-evident to me.

Ron_Tomkins 1st August 2018 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isissxn (Post 12379864)
I think the answer is supposed to be one of the below:

What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners?'

a.) Omg, I can't understand it either! It's beyond understanding, terrible.

b.) They don't actually enjoy it - enjoying it is impossible, something else is driving them.

c.) They are just Complete Monsters, but trying to analyze just what that means makes you an advocate of forced sex and a poopyhead!

I've narrowed it down to these possibilities by process of elimination.

Actually, I always got the feeling that this whole thread is Dann's way of saying to the world "Look! I'm so normal that I can't conceive at all how someone would do something like that in any circumstance. Can you guys help me? I really wanna try to figure it out, but me being so normal, it seems impossible to do. Maybe you happen to know a sick person who can try to relate to us why they are so sick?"

calebprime 1st August 2018 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12380492)
Actually, I always got the feeling that this whole thread is Dann's way of saying to the world "Look! I'm so normal that I can't conceive at all how someone would do something like that in any circumstance. Can you guys help me? I really wanna try to figure it out, but me being so normal, it seems impossible to do. Maybe you happen to know a sick person who can try to relate to us why they are so sick?"

Agreed -- it's seemed that way to me too.

JoeMorgue 1st August 2018 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12380492)
Actually, I always got the feeling that this whole thread is Dann's way of saying to the world "Look! I'm so normal that I can't conceive at all how someone would do something like that in any circumstance. Can you guys help me? I really wanna try to figure it out, but me being so normal, it seems impossible to do. Maybe you happen to know a sick person who can try to relate to us why they are so sick?"

Bingo.

He seemed far more interested in finding some "sicko" to focus his rage/superiority on then any intellectually or emotionally honest answers to his question.

xjx388 1st August 2018 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isissxn (Post 12379864)
I think the answer is supposed to be one of the below:

What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners?'

a.) Omg, I can't understand it either! It's beyond understanding, terrible.

b.) They don't actually enjoy it - enjoying it is impossible, something else is driving them.

c.) They are just Complete Monsters, but trying to analyze just what that means makes you an advocate of forced sex and a poopyhead!

I've narrowed it down to these possibilities by process of elimination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot (Post 12379900)
Well, yes - it is incoherent. So the fascination becomes what is the poster doing. No accusation of nefarious intent here - but curiousity about what explaines the incoherency.

I accept other people work differently from me. The evidence is overwhelming.

I have a morbid fascination with Serial Killers. Although my favorite is not considered one because he was a mob hit man. Kuklinsky. But he didn't rape victims. He was an assassin. And I understand exactly what created him. He doesn't feel one way or the other about his victims, it neither thrills him nor bothers him. It's the money.

But a lot of the greats (sarcasm) were rapists. Cannibals. Sadists.

If you have difficulty "understanding" then look at people like Leonard Lake and Charles Ng. The Miranda Project: Lake wrote a book about their intentions, so there's no mistaking the horror.

and there are one-off rapists who got drunk with a woman and went too far. You have sex with barnyard animals going on, and it's been going on for thousands of years. Everything from A to Z.

The fact one does not rape barn animals should not prohibit one from acknowledging people who do are wired differently. It's self-evident to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins (Post 12380492)
Actually, I always got the feeling that this whole thread is Dann's way of saying to the world "Look! I'm so normal that I can't conceive at all how someone would do something like that in any circumstance. Can you guys help me? I really wanna try to figure it out, but me being so normal, it seems impossible to do. Maybe you happen to know a sick person who can try to relate to us why they are so sick?"

What I don't understand is the animosity in Dann's posts. None of us here, including him, are experts in human psychology as far as I know. We don't know the real answer (do experts even know?), but we are making some thoughtful attempts to address the question as best we can. But it seems everything we say is met with derision and dismissal. No fun.

theprestige 1st August 2018 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12380905)
What I don't understand is the animosity in Dann's posts. None of us here, including him, are experts in human psychology as far as I know. We don't know the real answer (do experts even know?), but we are making some thoughtful attempts to address the question as best we can. But it seems everything we say is met with derision and dismissal. No fun.

What makes someone want to have an argument with an unwilling partner?

d4m10n 1st August 2018 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381033)
What makes someone want to have an argument with an unwilling partner?

Natural selection.

Ladies love white knights.

theprestige 1st August 2018 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12381144)
Natural selection.

Ladies love white knights.

That's stupid. Natural selection is an excuse, not an explanation.

d4m10n 1st August 2018 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381148)
That's stupid. Natural selection is an excuse, not an explanation.

Please go back and reread your Darwin.

theprestige 1st August 2018 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12381173)
Please go back and reread your Darwin.

That's stupid. Darwin doesn't actually explain anything. You're trying to distract from the reality that you can't explain it.

d4m10n 1st August 2018 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381178)
That's stupid. Darwin doesn't actually explain anything. You're trying to distract from the reality that you can't explain it.

Natural selection explains why biological creatures behave in adaptive ways.

10th grade, yo.

theprestige 1st August 2018 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12381189)
Natural selection explains why biological creatures behave in adaptive ways.

10th grade, yo.

That's stupid. 10th grade biology is an excuse, not an explanation. Why can't anyone answer my question?

Thermal 1st August 2018 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381196)
That's stupid. 10th grade biology is an excuse, not an explanation. Why can't anyone answer my question?

Assertion of power?

theprestige 1st August 2018 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thermal (Post 12381214)
Assertion of power?

That's stupid. Assertion of power is just an excuse. Why do some people want to assert power in the first place?

Thermal 1st August 2018 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381235)
That's stupid. Assertion of power is just an excuse. Why do some people want to assert power in the first place?

Powerful stupidity?

xjx388 1st August 2018 07:40 PM

Lol, I think theorestige has summed up this thread quite well.


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Roboramma 2nd August 2018 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12381256)
Lol, I think theorestige has summed up this thread quite well.

+1

Sabrina 2nd August 2018 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12380905)
What I don't understand is the animosity in Dann's posts. None of us here, including him, are experts in human psychology as far as I know. We don't know the real answer (do experts even know?), but we are making some thoughtful attempts to address the question as best we can. But it seems everything we say is met with derision and dismissal. No fun.

I have a bachelor's degree in psychology, but as that was granted nearly seventeen years ago now and I moved on to work in an entirely different line of employment (although I suppose one could argue there's a slight level of psychology applicable in analysis), I would very much hesitate to claim any miniscule level of expertise in the subject.

I'm with xjx388 and Roboramma on this one; theprestige pretty much summed up the thread.

theprestige 3rd August 2018 03:34 PM

That's stu- I mean, thanks, everyone. I'm honored that you would appreciate my technique. Shall we see if dann has anything to add?

d4m10n 3rd August 2018 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12381196)
That's stupid. 10th grade biology is an excuse, not an explanation. Why can't anyone answer my question?

Which question?

Mycroft 4th August 2018 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12383556)
Which question?

I think he was roll-playing as Dann.

Seismosaurus 4th August 2018 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 12362448)
So if you want to experience the pleasure of having sex, all you need to do is find somebody you would like to have it with who would also like to have it with you.

You know, there are people in the world who find that is beyond their skill set.


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