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-   -   General UK politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346868)

Francesca R 8th February 2021 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13387433)
Oh dear me, what a surprise yet more of good old “never interferes with politics” Queenie interfering with legislation for her own benefit…. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...private-wealth

I'm gonna be mightily pissed off if it turns out that the Queen is rolling in money. I assumed she was on median wage with rent controls.

Wudang 8th February 2021 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francesca R (Post 13387942)
I'm gonna be mightily pissed off if it turns out that the Queen is rolling in money. I assumed she was on median wage with rent controls.


https://www.theguardian.com/business...-seabed-rights


Quote:

The option fees to be paid by the winning windfarm developers will more than double the profits made by Queen and Treasury from the crown estate, which reported profits of £345m for the last financial year.

Nice to have a little income in your old age.

Wudang 8th February 2021 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13387928)
^ Have a read of Norman Baker's ...And What Do You Do? (if you haven't already) for more dismantling of the "apolitical" monarchy myth.

The sooner we get shot of the inbred robber barons the better.


Ordered. Thank you.

Captain_Swoop 8th February 2021 06:33 AM

George III surrendered control over the Estate's revenues to the Treasury. In return, he received an annual grant known as the Civil List.
From 1 April 2012 the Civil List was abolished and the monarch was provided with a stable source of revenue indexed to a percentage of the Crown Estate's annual net revenue.

What is being discussed here is her separate 'private' income. It is worth a lot more than her income from the Crown Estate which all goes on 'official' spending associated with her duties etc.

Darat 8th February 2021 08:51 AM

Lots of not-political-at-all-only-a-figurehead messing about with legislation: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...queens-consent

Blue Bubble 8th February 2021 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13387928)
^ Have a read of Norman Baker's ...And What Do You Do? (if you haven't already) for more dismantling of the "apolitical" monarchy myth.

The sooner we get shot of the inbred robber barons the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wudang (Post 13387951)
Ordered. Thank you.


I have ordered too. Thank you.

Vixen 8th February 2021 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Bubble (Post 13388168)
I have ordered too. Thank you.

I downloaded this to Kindle May last year. Not sure if I read it or not, although I recall I did but haven't left a review. What is amusing is the way the Queen 'makes an appearance' and all the protocols leading up to it. 'And what do you do?' is supposedly Prince Philip's stock opening remark on meeting anybody.

What is entertaining is Baker explaining how most of the 'royal traditions' have recently just been made up as they go along.

Francesca R 8th February 2021 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 13388190)
What is entertaining is Baker explaining how most of the 'royal traditions' have recently just been made up as they go along.

Exactly the same thing happened with America's constitution they've even fiddled with it in the last thirty years. Outrageous.

Captain_Swoop 8th February 2021 11:09 AM

Every tradition started somewhere

Francesca R 8th February 2021 11:53 AM

What about the tradition of having traditions?

P.J. Denyer 8th February 2021 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13387928)
^ Have a read of Norman Baker's ...And What Do You Do? (if you haven't already) for more dismantling of the "apolitical" monarchy myth.

The sooner we get shot of the inbred robber barons the better.

Sounds interesting. I've just bought it on Kindle (Mr Baker owes you some thanks!)

catsmate 8th February 2021 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13387433)
Oh dear me, what a surprise yet more of good old “never interferes with politics” Queenie interfering with legislation for her own benefit…. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...private-wealth

Good old British democracy in action, no EU meddling.....

Airfix 8th February 2021 02:21 PM

I'm all for a referendum on the monarchy, you ?

The Don 9th February 2021 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airfix (Post 13388502)
I'm all for a referendum on the monarchy, you ?

If the referendum isn't clear on what should replace the monarchy then I'm not in favour of it. We would run the risk of voting to abolish the monarchy and then spend years failing to agree what, if anything, should replace it.

If the alternative to the monarchy is clearly stated in the referendum then I would be in favour of it.

Ethan Thane Athen 9th February 2021 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 13388190)
I downloaded this to Kindle May last year. Not sure if I read it or not, although I recall I did but haven't left a review. What is amusing is the way the Queen 'makes an appearance' and all the protocols leading up to it. 'And what do you do?' is supposedly Prince Philip's stock opening remark on meeting anybody.

What is entertaining is Baker explaining how most of the 'royal traditions' have recently just been made up as they go along.

It is, I've met him - well I've stood next to a rather attractive female colleague that he made a beeline for, completely blanking me...

Darat 9th February 2021 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airfix (Post 13388502)
I'm all for a referendum on the monarchy, you ?

What would the question be?

Mr Fied 9th February 2021 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13388975)
What would the question be?

Do you want to get rid of the monarchy?

We don't know what to replace it with, but if you vote yes we'll spend the next 5 years arguing about how to do it, and then have a botched up last minute ballsup of a deal.

Pease tick Yes or No.

Captain_Swoop 9th February 2021 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen (Post 13388969)
It is, I've met him - well I've stood next to a rather attractive female colleague that he made a beeline for, completely blanking me...

A wise man.

Captain_Swoop 9th February 2021 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13388961)
If the referendum isn't clear on what should replace the monarchy then I'm not in favour of it. We would run the risk of voting to abolish the monarchy and then spend years failing to agree what, if anything, should replace it.

If the alternative to the monarchy is clearly stated in the referendum then I would be in favour of it.

Whatever it was would be designed to keep Boris in power.

catsmate 9th February 2021 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wudang (Post 13387951)
Ordered. Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Bubble (Post 13388168)
I have ordered too. Thank you.

Darat, have you considered an Amazon account so you can get commission?
:)

catsmate 9th February 2021 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airfix (Post 13388502)
I'm all for a referendum on the monarchy, you ?

Feel free, I don't have a monarch.

catsmate 9th February 2021 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13388961)
If the referendum isn't clear on what should replace the monarchy then I'm not in favour of it. We would run the risk of voting to abolish the monarchy and then spend years failing to agree what, if anything, should replace it.

If the alternative to the monarchy is clearly stated in the referendum then I would be in favour of it.

Ah, the lesson of Brexit....

Check your pig before purchase. :)

How about an elected President, they're quite fashionable.
Elected by PR (i.e. numbered preference) for a seven year term. Immunity from prosecution for their time in office, unless voted on by Parliament, and removable by a super-majority of Parliament (or if convicted of a serious offense). Seven year term.
A fixed, but generous, salary, official residence(s) and transport while in office, plus pension and post-presidency security paid for by the state.
A ban on holding paid office afterwards, for the length of their service. Completely transparency of land, stock and investment holdings in a public register.

zooterkin 9th February 2021 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13388347)
Sounds interesting. I've just bought it on Kindle (Mr Baker owes you some thanks!)

Me too.

zooterkin 9th February 2021 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13389031)
Ah, the lesson of Brexit....

Check your pig before purchase. :)

How about an elected President, they're quite fashionable.
Elected by PR (i.e. numbered preference) for a seven year term. Immunity from prosecution for their time in office, unless voted on by Parliament, and removable by a super-majority of Parliament (or if convicted of a serious offense). Seven year term.
A fixed, but generous, salary, official residence(s) and transport while in office, plus pension and post-presidency security paid for by the state.
A ban on holding paid office afterwards, for the length of their service. Completely transparency of land, stock and investment holdings in a public register.

Ok, but what power would they have?

GlennB 9th February 2021 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13388961)
If the referendum isn't clear on what should replace the monarchy then I'm not in favour of it. We would run the risk of voting to abolish the monarchy and then spend years failing to agree what, if anything, should replace it.

If the alternative to the monarchy is clearly stated in the referendum then I would be in favour of it.

Why would we need to replace it? It doesn't do anything even close to essential afaics.

catsmate 9th February 2021 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13389042)
Ok, but what power would they have?

Transpose the current monarchial powers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 13389044)
Why would we need to replace it? It doesn't do anything even close to essential afaics.

Except consume money and resources and meddle in the affairs of teh elected parliament.

Carrot Flower King 9th February 2021 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 13389044)
Why would we need to replace it? It doesn't do anything even close to essential afaics.

Quite: what exactly is the monarchy for? Except a constant reminder of how much power and wealth the aristocracy still have - even if you follow the "decline and fall" documented by someone like David Cannadine there is still a whole heap of land, power, money, influence and the rest in those hands.

And, why the need for any head of state?

Vixen 9th February 2021 06:20 AM

I am all for the monarchy. Rather have a nice but dim monarch in place than some autocrat like Putin or some communist people's republic. Keeps out the fascists, too, as technically the Queen 'appoints' the Prime Minister once elected. Sure the 'men in grey' see to all this, but technically she could stop an incoming totalitarian regime in its tracks.

Darat 9th February 2021 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 13389122)
I am all for the monarchy. Rather have a nice but dim monarch in place than some autocrat like Putin or some communist people's republic. Keeps out the fascists, too, as technically the Queen 'appoints' the Prime Minister once elected. Sure the 'men in grey' see to all this, but technically she could stop an incoming totalitarian regime in its tracks.

No she couldn’t - she would simply be ignored.

GlennB 9th February 2021 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 13389122)
I am all for the monarchy. Rather have a nice but dim monarch in place than some autocrat like Putin or some communist people's republic.

This presumes that somebody needs to be at least the nominal head of state. Why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 13389122)
Keeps out the fascists, too, as technically the Queen 'appoints' the Prime Minister once elected. Sure the 'men in grey' see to all this, but technically she could stop an incoming totalitarian regime in its tracks.

No, she couldn't. She has no say in the matter whatsoever. It's a meaningless ritual.

The Don 9th February 2021 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 13389144)
This presumes that somebody needs to be at least the nominal head of state. Why?

Because if we didn't, we'd be like the Swiss :p

Captain_Swoop 9th February 2021 06:49 AM

Seems like a good idea to me

The Don 9th February 2021 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13389151)
Seems like a good idea to me

Lovely place to visit, not sure whether I'm temperamentally suited to living there. :)

Vixen 9th February 2021 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13389125)
No she couldn’t - she would simply be ignored.

Utter nonsense. The Generals, Admirals, Wing Commanders of the Armed Forces have all pledged allegiance to the Crown. Should there be some kind of peasants' uprising or a Dominic Cummings' far right attempt at a coup d'état, whose side do you think the armed forces will be on. They are unelected and there is nothing you can do about it, other than pass a Bill through Parliament to abolish the monarchy, which I doubt the Queen's lawyers will advise her to sign off.

Pixel42 9th February 2021 07:27 AM

If a party whose manifesto included becoming a republic was ever elected it would make for an interesting Queen's Speech. "I look forward to the implementation of my government's plans to abolish the monarchy".

catsmate 9th February 2021 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13389172)
Lovely place to visit, not sure whether I'm temperamentally suited to living there. :)

I enjoyed a couple of years there.

Captain_Swoop 9th February 2021 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 13389173)
Utter nonsense. The Generals, Admirals, Wing Commanders of the Armed Forces have all pledged allegiance to the Crown. Should there be some kind of peasants' uprising or a Dominic Cummings' far right attempt at a coup d'état, whose side do you think the armed forces will be on. They are unelected and there is nothing you can do about it, other than pass a Bill through Parliament to abolish the monarchy, which I doubt the Queen's lawyers will advise her to sign off.

Why would the Queen have to sign anything off?
Parliament outranks her.
If she ever refused to give 'Royal Assent' to any Bill she would be gone in the blink of an eye.
Do you think the army would attack parliament if the Queen ordered it?

Vixen 9th February 2021 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13389241)
Why would the Queen have to sign anything off?
Parliament outranks her.
If she ever refused to give 'Royal Assent' to any Bill she would be gone in the blink of an eye.
Do you think the army would attack parliament if the Queen ordered it?

You are naive if you believe all 'Boris' has to do is present a Bill with his 80-seat majority and voila, he is now General Johnson military dictator of the UK.

Captain_Swoop 9th February 2021 10:11 AM

If parliament presented a bill and the queen refused to sign what then?
Do you think it would just not be implemented?

Airfix 10th February 2021 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13388975)
What would the question be?

"Do we keep the Monarchy, or scrap the Monarchy ?"

If we scrap the monarchy, they lose taxpayer funding and legal status.

You could have a follow on referendum:
Should the PM become head of state, or the speaker of the house (of Commons) ?


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