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-   -   Bill Barr and his October Surprise (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346780)

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giordano (Post 13263297)
Are you reading these links? Well I will not be your monkey dancing to your organ playing. I will just let the other members read the actual cites and see who agrees with whose interpretation.

Facts don't need interpretation. You posted links which disprove your 50/50 claim about the emails. The other has nothing to do with anything you claimed. It's the "opinion" of 50 people that have no access to any more information than you or I.

Skeptic Ginger 19th October 2020 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13263281)
Hunter isn't known for making smart life decisions.

So you've read his bio or is this conclusion based on a couple news headlines?

Because, you know, a whole lot of people have used drugs in their pasts without it ruining their lives.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263301)
Good God, even just this little part is horrifying. Really, he can't guarantee more than a flip of a coin that he's NOT working with a foreign agent of a country that interfered in our last election and would have no reason to suddenly stop interfering in this one? Fifty-fifty is the best he can offer?!

Not without evidence. If there is evidence Andrii Derkach is a Russian asset/agent, I'd like to see it, specifically what? The only reason I have doubts is that no evidence is presented, and I don't think he'd be in Parlament in the Ukraine if he was, he'd be in jail.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch (Post 13263294)
You're clinging to the drugs aspect in the way Ghouliani and co are hoping will sell their setup. That being: Even a well heeled dopehead with access and means will, in his addled state, do something so outlandish as this hare-brained story they've cooked up.

If only they could have roped in someone more convincing and better placed than this hapless shmuck, this marginally useful idiot running a hole-in-the-wall 'puter repair joint.

And yet the laptop was taken from the repair guy by the FBI. Now, are you saying Biden didn't take it in? The emails are fake? Fake and planted? This repair guy made his story up?

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263301)
Good God, even just this little part is horrifying. Really, he can't guarantee more than a flip of a coin that he's NOT working with a foreign agent of a country that interfered in our last election and would have no reason to suddenly stop interfering in this one? Fifty-fifty is the best he can offer?!


Caveat, Andrii Derkach has nothing to do with the Biden emails.

Ziggurat 19th October 2020 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13263317)
So you've read his bio or is this conclusion based on a couple news headlines?

Because, you know, a whole lot of people have used drugs in their pasts without it ruining their lives.

His illegitimate child with a stripper that he tried unsuccessfully to deny was his is a bigger indication of how stupid he is than his drug use, tbh.

xjx388 19th October 2020 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13263281)
Hunter isn't known for making smart life decisions.

Well, that's true. But he seems like he was a functioning addict, which makes sense being a rich kid. I know a few people with money and bad drug habits. They simply don't have the same issues that the stereotypical coke/meth head does. One prominent member of our community is like that, works his butt off all day running his various businesses; most people wouldn't suspect, on the face of it, that he parties really hearty most nights. I know that guy isn't dropping off laptops at strip-mall repair shops. Hell, I don't know anyone with money who drops off laptops at repair shops anymore.

In any case, the laptop was dropped off in April of 2019. My understanding is that he had already been through rehab at that point and had been clean. I could be wrong on that point, I don't know his life; but, if that's true then any drug use is a non-issue as far as his decision making goes. It just doesn't make sense that Hunter Biden would randomly wander into a small repair shop in Delaware, drop off a laptop and then forget about it. Especially if he had kicked the drugs at that point. Especially if it had information he really wanted or considered potentially damaging to himself or his father.

Ziggurat 19th October 2020 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timhau (Post 13263314)
Yes, changing the pronoun obviously makes all the difference. Ann Dunham also credibly flew to Kenya for delivery because she wasn't "they".

Hereís the kicker: the provenance of the laptop is actually the least interesting part of all this. The real issue is the authenticity of the emails themselves.

And Hunter isnít claiming they arenít real. I wonder why.

Minoosh 19th October 2020 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263327)
Caveat, Andrii Derkach has nothing to do with the Biden emails.

How do you know?

xjx388 19th October 2020 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13263338)
Hereís the kicker: the provenance of the laptop is actually the least interesting part of all this. The real issue is the authenticity of the emails themselves.

And Hunter isnít claiming they arenít real. I wonder why.

Even if they are real, they aren't really a smoking gun as far as showing corruption. It would be surprising if his contacts didn't try to get him to make introductions and use his influence. The question is whether or not those efforts bore any fruit and I don't think there is evidence that they did.

timhau 19th October 2020 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13263338)
And Hunter isnít claiming they arenít real. I wonder why.

How much weight would you put on his claim that they are not real?

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 13263339)
How do you know?

"Sure, the U.S. Treasury Department may have declared one of his former associates—Ukrainian parliamentarian Andrii Derkach, who worked with Giuliani on his hunt for dirt on the Bidens—to be an “active Russian agent.” But that’s some Deep State talk, he added. “The chance that Derkach is a Russian spy is no better than 50/50.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rudy-g...dirt-on-bidens

And because no where in the reported story does Andrii Derkach make an appearance. Unless you have some inside information, the hardware was left at a repair shop by Hunter Biden. The FBI was contacted through an intermediary, then given to the FBI under a Grand Jury subpoena. A copy was given through the mediator of the repair shop guy to Robert Costello who is Giuliani's attorney.

The Great Zaganza 19th October 2020 11:06 PM

Given that this story does include the FBI, Barr's silence is certainly not a sign of support by the DOJ for the Rudy story.

Stacyhs 19th October 2020 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13263340)
Even if they are real, they aren't really a smoking gun as far as showing corruption. It would be surprising if his contacts didn't try to get him to make introductions and use his influence. The question is whether or not those efforts bore any fruit and I don't think there is evidence that they did.

Exactly. Even if authentic, the email is a thank you for a possible meeting in the future. A meeting that was never shown to have ever happened. That's not a smoking gun, it's a bunch of hot air being blown out of Trump's and Giuliani's backsides.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13263352)
Given that this story does include the FBI, Barr's silence is certainly not a sign of support by the DOJ for the Rudy story.

Not sure what you mean, everyone went crazy when Comey pulled his stunt in 2016. I doubt Barr could say anything either way without getting the same treatment. Ditto for Wray. They actually aren't supposed to comment.

The Great Zaganza 19th October 2020 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263358)
Not sure what you mean, everyone went crazy when Comey pulled his stunt in 2016. I doubt Barr could say anything either way without getting the same treatment. Ditto for Wray. They actually aren't supposed to comment.

never stopped him before.

Silly Green Monkey 19th October 2020 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263323)
And yet the laptop was taken from the repair guy by the FBI. Now, are you saying Biden didn't take it in? The emails are fake? Fake and planted? This repair guy made his story up?

The FBI doesn't seem to think the laptop or emails are worth pursuing, they didn't present it to the Senate as evidence against Hunter and they're not talking about it now. But you've convinced me, Hunter Biden is not a good candidate for President and I'm not voting for him.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 11:32 PM

The testimony of the computer repair shop guy that Hunter Biden left it there and then didn’t pick it up Is evidence of authenticity. If Hunter Biden had the emails on his computer, it is reasonable to assume they are authentic. I am glad I could help you with this.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_901

(a) In General. To satisfy the requirement of authenticating or identifying an item of evidence, the proponent must produce evidence sufficient to support a finding that the item is what the proponent claims it is.

(b) Examples. The following are examples only — not a complete list — of evidence that satisfies the requirement:

(1) Testimony of a Witness with Knowledge. Testimony that an item is what it is claimed to be.

Silly Green Monkey 19th October 2020 11:32 PM

Testimony be damned. Where's the invoice with Biden's signature?

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13263360)
never stopped him before.

Never involved a Presidential candidate a few weeks before the election either. They'd be asking for his head on a platter. Smart move on his part.

Silly Green Monkey 19th October 2020 11:34 PM

Joseph Biden is not involved. The son is not the father.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263364)
Testimony be damned. Where's the invoice with Biden's signature?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hun...-fbi-paperwork

Silly Green Monkey 19th October 2020 11:38 PM

Why hasn't Fox News verified that it's Biden's signature? Seems it would be a simple thing to do.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263366)
Joseph Biden is not involved. The son is not the father.

Geeze, pay attention

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...ive-c-n2578275

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...aire-pay-10-m/

The Great Zaganza 19th October 2020 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263366)
Joseph Biden is not involved. The son is not the father.

HRC is not Podesta, but that never stopped anyone.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263368)
Why hasn't Fox News verified that it's Biden's signature? Seems it would be a simple thing to do.

I don't work for FOX, not sure why you would ask me that.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13263355)
Exactly. Even if authentic, the email is a thank you for a possible meeting in the future. A meeting that was never shown to have ever happened. That's not a smoking gun, it's a bunch of hot air being blown out of Trump's and Giuliani's backsides.

You are stuck on meetings

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...ive-c-n2578275

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...aire-pay-10-m/

If Biden was taking money and not reporting it, I'm sure it still wouldn't make a difference to you. Only Trump could possibly be compromised by supposed foreign money, isn't that right?

Silly Green Monkey 19th October 2020 11:42 PM

Without Fox News bothering to verify the signature on the invoice, they are spreading mere hearsay. By linking to their hearsay, you are also spreading hearsay. Hearsay is worthless and not evidence.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13263370)
HRC is not Podesta, but that never stopped anyone.


Hand waving it doesn't make it go away if the emails are legit

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...ive-c-n2578275

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...aire-pay-10-m/

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263374)
Without Fox News bothering to verify the signature on the invoice, they are spreading mere hearsay. By linking to their hearsay, you are also spreading hearsay. Hearsay is worthless and not evidence.


You've just shown you don't know what hearsay is. LOL. They produced the invoice. So has other publications.

The Great Zaganza 19th October 2020 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263375)

hiding some truth in a pile of lies is SOP for disinformation operations.

How can you sort out which is which?

Silly Green Monkey 19th October 2020 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263376)
You've just shown you don't know what hearsay is. LOL. They produced the invoice. So has other publications.

Fox straight up, in the link you posted, admitted that they didn't bother to verify the signature.

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13263378)
hiding some truth in a pile of lies is SOP for disinformation operations.

How can you sort out which is which?

Do you have any evidence that repair guy hid truth in a pile of lies or are you speculating? Do you have evidence this is a "disinformation operation?"

You think the FBI won't be able to find out which is which? You think the metadata can be faked too?

TahiniBinShawarma 19th October 2020 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263379)
Fox straight up, in the link you posted, admitted that they didn't bother to verify the signature.

So, is that what determines the authenticity of the signature? FoxNews? lol

Get a grip, they provided the invoice, AND told you they didn't have an expert look at it.

Silly Green Monkey 19th October 2020 11:55 PM

They provided a piece of paper that they said had Biden's signature, with nothing to back that up. Again, the FBI didn't think the laptop was worthwhile so the crafters of this scam had to go searching for marks.

TahiniBinShawarma 20th October 2020 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263385)
They provided a piece of paper that they said had Biden's signature, with nothing to back that up. Again, the FBI didn't think the laptop was worthwhile so the crafters of this scam had to go searching for marks.

The FBI retrieved the hardware with a grand jury subpoena. And the slip with the signature is from the repair guy. I understand this is hard for you, I'm not sure I can help you.

dirtywick 20th October 2020 12:08 AM

My theory is that since itís a fake invoice they know theyíd have to admit that if they tried to authenticate it, so itís really better for them not to try and hope thereís enough rubes out there. But it looks like thereís not since nobody is talking about it because the story is so ridiculous to just rely on Rudy Giuliani and a screenshot on his phone as proof. Rock and a hard place.

Stacyhs 20th October 2020 12:09 AM

Someone is working very, very hard to convince everyone that there is something to this whole Hunter Biden thing. Very hard.

Silly Green Monkey 20th October 2020 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263393)
The FBI retrieved the hardware with a grand jury subpoena. And the slip with the signature is from the repair guy. I understand this is hard for you, I'm not sure I can help you.

FBI did nothing with it. They could have given it to the Senate when the Senate cleared Hunter Biden of all charges, but didn't. The con failed and the con artists shopped around for new marks.

TahiniBinShawarma 20th October 2020 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13263398)
Someone is working very, very hard to convince everyone that there is something to this whole Hunter Biden thing. Very hard.

Same with those working very hard to convince everyone it's nothing.

The Great Zaganza 20th October 2020 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13263381)
Do you have any evidence that repair guy hid truth in a pile of lies or are you speculating? Do you have evidence this is a "disinformation operation?"

You think the FBI won't be able to find out which is which? You think the metadata can be faked too?

you just said the FBI won't or shouldn't comment on ongoing matters.
So don't use them to support any argument of yours.


What we do have is IC reports of ongoing Russian interference efforts.

TahiniBinShawarma 20th October 2020 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263400)
FBI did nothing with it. They could have given it to the Senate when the Senate cleared Hunter Biden of all charges, but didn't. The con failed and the con artists shopped around for new marks.

Do tell how you know the FBI did nothing with it? I haven't seen the FBI comment. What did you hear and from where?

TahiniBinShawarma 20th October 2020 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13263404)
you just said the FBI won't or shouldn't comment on ongoing matters.
So don't use them to support any argument of yours.


What we do have is IC reports of Russian interference.

Those statements are not contradictory.

"You think the FBI won't be able to find out which is which?"
"They actually aren't supposed to comment."

There is no contradiction.

You have nothing with regards to the Biden laptop, well, almost nothing, you have speculation.

Silly Green Monkey 20th October 2020 12:16 AM

I've only heard about the laptop since Giuliani ate the bait and sent it to the media, not when the Senate was investigating Biden. The FBI had it then, why wasn't it shown to the Senate? I rather think you are underestimating the impact of this information if it were true.

TahiniBinShawarma 20th October 2020 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263407)
I've only heard about the laptop since Giuliani ate the bait and sent it to the media, not when the Senate was investigating Biden. The FBI had it then, why wasn't it shown to the Senate? I rather think you are underestimating the impact of this information if it were true.

Why would the FBI share info on an open investigation with the Senate? Is there a precedent for this? If so, can you cite it? I know you can't. Do you know how many times we've heard in testimony "I can't comment on an ongoing investigation" from the FBI or JD in front of the Senate?

Norman Alexander 20th October 2020 12:21 AM

So now, a few days later, how's this "incriminating laptop" scam going? Like all Trump schemes, backwards and downwards on a sea of easily-disputed lies and laughable yells about fraud the other guy is doing. In short, it's yet another bust. But typical of everything he gets involved in. It would be hilarious if all he was was a failed real estate executive and two-bit reality face. But he sits in the highest office in the USA. So he is taking everyone down with him if it kills him.

Silly Green Monkey 20th October 2020 12:22 AM

When the Senate is investigating someone, you don't think they should get information?? The *Senate* investigated and cleared Hunter Biden. The FBI didn't think the laptop was evidence worthy of being presented to the Senate in the investigation of Hunter Biden. I don't know how much clearer this can be made.

Silly Green Monkey 20th October 2020 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13263410)
So now, a few days later, how's this "incriminating laptop" scam going? Like all Trump schemes, backwards and downwards on a sea of easily-disputed lies and laughable yells about fraud the other guy is doing. In short, it's yet another bust. But typical of everything he gets involved in. It would be hilarious if all he was was a failed real estate executive and two-bit reality face. But he sits in the highest office in the USA. So he is taking everyone down with him if it kills him.

No, rightwingers have the hook firmly set in their jaws. They can't break loose. I've heard them, they can't imagine how anyone can vote for Biden after hearing about the emails on the laptop. Anyone with a brain after all would see the trail of corruption.

TahiniBinShawarma 20th October 2020 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13263411)
When the Senate is investigating someone, you don't think they should get information?? The *Senate* investigated and cleared Hunter Biden. The FBI didn't think the laptop was evidence worthy of being presented to the Senate in the investigation of Hunter Biden. I don't know how much clearer this can be made.


LOL, well if you don't know, I guess the conversation is over, thankfully. But no, the FBI does not share info of ongoing investigations with anyone, including the Senate.

Silly Green Monkey 20th October 2020 12:36 AM

Really, you don't think the Senate investigating someone means that the Federal Bureau of Investigations is going to be involved, given that the Senate is a Federal institution? What did you think the FBI was gathering information FOR? The Senate was investigating Hunter Biden. THE SENATE. They're not a bunch of dusty academics parked in a distant room muttering to themselves, they're the legislative branch of the federal government and they get evidence from the federal bureau of investigation. They're all part of the same thing. The US Senate has cleared Hunter Biden of corruption charges. Sorry if that wasn't the outcome you devoutly prayed for.


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