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-   -   The Marjorie Taylor Greene thread. (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347945)

ponderingturtle 19th April 2021 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13458135)
Seems to me scenes of military occupation and cops brutalizing CNN reporters on the streets of America does a lot to persuade undecided people about the nature of the police, but perhaps I'm out of touch.

But protests involve confrontation and that only leads to riots, frequently by the police at the start. That clearly is counter productive at least according to dudalb, so the clear answer is to do nothing. Just accept that the cops are vicious violent thugs above all laws of god and man and everything gets to be much easier.

turingtest 19th April 2021 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13458088)
I disagree about Walters. Her statement was incredibly irresponsible, and is going to be intereperted as a call to violence.
But that the GOP Is just as guilty is a good point.

If Chauvin is acquitted and there are riots because of that acquittal, then that acquittal will be the reason for the riots- you can argue that they're not justified, and certainly not "good optics," but that doesn't make them the result of what Waters said, her "call to violence" would be a whisper to a hurricane. Can you (or MTG or McCarthy) say the same about the Capitol riots? That they would have happened if Trump hadn't spent two months beforehand stirring the pot with lies and then the morning exhorting his faithful to fight and march? "Just as guilty" is misleading- there's no equivalence here, between what Waters said and what the GOP did in reaction to the respective situations, but a forced one.

dudalb 19th April 2021 02:40 PM

I think somebody needs to take their political blinders off.

Belz... 19th April 2021 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13458129)
I disagree, I think the collapse of the GOP is a realistic possiblity. It has happened before with the collapse of the Whigs in the 1850's. Which led to the founding of the Republican party, I think the two party system is imbedded, but that done mean one of the two major parties cannot be replaced.

If only the other party would try to woo another demographic than "monster", it'd be nice.

To the highlighted: nice accent, there! ;)

Babbylonian 19th April 2021 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13458105)
And I think that kind of nihilistic thinking is crap. Like it or not, you're stuck with the Republican Party, the parties are far too embedded in the US system to change that with anything short of a war at this point. Giving up and letting half the government be controlled by utter whackjobs is an incredibly bad idea. Anything that moves the GOP back towards sanity, even a little bit, is a good thing.

1. I'm having a sale on Brooklyn Bridges, if you're interested.
2. I don't think you're using the word "nihilistic" correctly.

The Republican party spent the last 4+ years exulting in cruelty and insanity, and there's little now to indicate regret. In fact, at the state level, they appear inclined to continue their attempt to absolutely destroy democracy. The Republican party is irredeemable. Anything that hastens its destruction is, therefore, a good thing.

Horatius 19th April 2021 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13458129)
I disagree, I think the collapse of the GOP is a realistic possiblity. It has happened before with the collapse of the Whigs in the 1850's. Which led to the founding of the Republican party, I think the two party system is imbedded, but that done mean one of the two major parties cannot be replaced.


In a country that's less than 250 years old, you have to go back about 170 years to find an example of a political party being destroyed and replaced.

Also recall I added the caveat "...with anything short of a war..." What was the context of the Whigs falling apart? Oh, Yeah, it was the lead-up to the US Civil War.

So, yeah, I think it's safe to say the Republicans will be around for a while yet. So either figure out how to fix them, or just get used to the **** show.

shemp 19th April 2021 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13458332)
In a country that's less than 250 years old, you have to go back about 170 years to find an example of a political party being destroyed and replaced.

Also recall I added the caveat "...with anything short of a war..." What was the context of the Whigs falling apart? Oh, Yeah, it was the lead-up to the US Civil War.

So, yeah, I think it's safe to say the Republicans will be around for a while yet. So either figure out how to fix them, or just get used to the **** show.

Or maybe we need another leadup to another Civil War.

quadraginta 19th April 2021 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13458135)
Seems to me scenes of military occupation and cops brutalizing CNN reporters on the streets of America does a lot to persuade undecided people about the nature of the police, but perhaps I'm out of touch.


I think you may be out of touch with the not insignificant portion of the U.S. electorate who believe that the protesters deserve the treatment they get from rioting cops.

Norman Alexander 19th April 2021 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 13458512)
I think you may be out of touch with the not insignificant portion of the U.S. electorate who believe that the protesters deserve the treatment they get from rioting cops.

Unless it's them. In which case they turn into Karens.

Elagabalus 20th April 2021 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13458105)
And I think that kind of nihilistic thinking is crap. Like it or not, you're stuck with the Republican Party, the parties are far too embedded in the US system to change that with anything short of a war at this point. Giving up and letting half the government be controlled by utter whackjobs is an incredibly bad idea. Anything that moves the GOP back towards sanity, even a little bit, is a good thing.

And that's why you need to swallow your pride, get a Disqus account and join us over at the OANN comment section. We're taking the fight to them-and we're winning ... *


*You'll never forget your first "Cry harder, snowflake!" It feels so good just to let it out ...

catsmate 20th April 2021 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13458084)
Frankly, I think the congress would be better off withour both MTG and Walters, whose uging protestors to be "More confrantational if Chauvian walks" statemen is incredibly irresponsible, but MTG is the last person to call out Walters.

If Chauvin is acquitted it will be a vivid demonstration that blacks are second-class citizens in the USA, whose lives are of lesser value to other races.

The US Civil Rights movement would have utterly failed without confrontation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13458088)
I disagree about Walters. Her statement was incredibly irresponsible, and is going to be intereperted as a call to violence.
But that the GOP Is just as guilty is a good point.

Perhaps violence is needed?

catsmate 20th April 2021 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13458093)
Ah yes the proper response is to just give up and accept that police can murder with out consequence. Once they accept that it will be so much better.

If Chauvin is acquitted then I expect there will be more cases of "pre-emptive self-defense" against police by blacks who will (rightly) believe their lives are in danger.

ponderingturtle 20th April 2021 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13458241)
I think somebody needs to take their political blinders off.

You are dealing with people who took kneeling at a football game to be too confrontational. There simply is no such thing as non-confrontational protests not matter what you seem to think.

But I get it property is always more important that the lives of mere blacks.

Mumbles 21st April 2021 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13458088)
I disagree about Walters. Her statement was incredibly irresponsible, and is going to be intereperted as a call to violence.
But that the GOP Is just as guilty is a good point.

Please.

When Watters says "march" or "confront" she means exactly that. Not "riot", "beat", "kill", or the like. She's entirely correct that this is about confronting those in the wrong.

Compare to Dolt 45's long record asking his stans to "knock the crap out of" protestors, directing police to "be rough" when arresting suspects, and so forth - once going so far to claim he'd pay for bail and defense for anyone who physically attacked a protestor (he didn't, of course).

I'm unconcerned with bad faith arguments from GOP leaders or hangers-on in this, and I see no reason for her to be either.

bruto 21st April 2021 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13460007)
Please.

When Watters says "march" or "confront" she means exactly that. Not "riot", "beat", "kill", or the like. She's entirely correct that this is about confronting those in the wrong.

Compare to Dolt 45's long record asking his stans to "knock the crap out of" protestors, directing police to "be rough" when arresting suspects, and so forth - once going so far to claim he'd pay for bail and defense for anyone who physically attacked a protestor (he didn't, of course).

I'm unconcerned with bad faith arguments from GOP leaders or hangers-on in this, and I see no reason for her to be either.

I agree. She said nothing in support of violence or lawlessness or unreason, except perhaps to disagree with curfews, and even that was equivocal. Her comments were immediately spun, and it was, I think, shameful for the judge in the Chauvin case to suggest that her comments would form a basis for an overturning of the verdict on appeal.

The kind of biased spin that's applied to statements like this is exactly what makes hers apt and on point.

Babbylonian 21st April 2021 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13460069)
I agree. She said nothing in support of violence or lawlessness or unreason, except perhaps to disagree with curfews, and even that was equivocal. Her comments were immediately spun, and it was, I think, shameful for the judge in the Chauvin case to suggest that her comments would form a basis for an overturning of the verdict on appeal.

The kind of biased spin that's applied to statements like this is exactly what makes hers apt and on point.

Wait. Are you implying that the criticisms of Maxine Waters may have been based on racism? How is that possible if her critics didn't repeatedly call her the n-word?

bruto 21st April 2021 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babbylonian (Post 13460300)
Wait. Are you implying that the criticisms of Maxine Waters may have been based on racism? How is that possible if her critics didn't repeatedly call her the n-word?

I know, it's pretty far fetched, isn't it? I suspect, though, that some of those critics are singing solemn hymns in autumn.

Mumbles 21st April 2021 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babbylonian (Post 13460300)
Wait. Are you implying that the criticisms of Maxine Waters may have been based on racism? How is that possible if her critics didn't repeatedly call her the n-word?

The only other person in recent memory I can recall being misinterpreted in this way recently is Eric Holder. This is outside of the usual social media nonsense, of course.

I won't accuse dudalb of being racist or anything, but when it's Waters on one side, and the Jewish Orbital Laser conspiracy theory woman on the other...this isn't a "both sides" issue.

dudalb 21st April 2021 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shemp (Post 13458378)
Or maybe we need another leadup to another Civil War.

I am a litle scared that the US is starting to resemble Spain right before it's civil war.

ponderingturtle 22nd April 2021 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13460770)
The only other person in recent memory I can recall being misinterpreted in this way recently is Eric Holder. This is outside of the usual social media nonsense, of course.

I won't accuse dudalb of being racist or anything, but when it's Waters on one side, and the Jewish Orbital Laser conspiracy theory woman on the other...this isn't a "both sides" issue.

I still want to know what non confrontational protests are. Holding a sign up inside your own house maybe?

SuburbanTurkey 22nd April 2021 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13461107)
I still want to know what non confrontational protests are. Holding a sign up inside your own house maybe?

The kind that libs like. Permitted by the city and designed in such a way not to bother anyone. Probably involve "activists" hugging a cop for a photo-op and then the mayor reads off some empty platitudes. Everyone clears out 2 hrs before sundown.

You know, pointless.

catsmate 22nd April 2021 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13460839)
I am a litle scared that the US is starting to resemble Spain right before it's civil war.

The parallels are distinct and interesting.

ponderingturtle 22nd April 2021 06:05 AM

We clearly need to totally reevaluate Stonewall as the criminal act it was and not view it as some kind of protest against police brutality. Anyone who commemorates is clearly supporting rioting because of its ties supporting gay rights means supporting rioting against the police.

And we can finally side with the right side of bloody sunday instead of those criminals blocking the road. The police should have been the heroes in the movie Selma and Stonewall.

Craig4 22nd April 2021 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13461111)
The kind that libs like. Permitted by the city and designed in such a way not to bother anyone. Probably involve "activists" hugging a cop for a photo-op and then the mayor reads off some empty platitudes. Everyone clears out 2 hrs before sundown.

You know, pointless.

But the Gravy SEALS showing up at a state house with their knock-off AR-15s, cool guy rigs and "tactical" sunglasses pissing and moaning about getting a hair cut is okay.

Mumbles 22nd April 2021 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13461107)
I still want to know what non confrontational protests are. Holding a sign up inside your own house maybe?

Well, looking at the roster of anti-protest bills that are being masqueraded as "anti-riot" legislation, I'd say it depends on whether or not the protest is in favor of black people (and presumably other marginalized groups), or gun-waving right wing rallies.

kookbreaker 23rd April 2021 07:22 PM

After attacking the Green Deal for years and demanding AOC debate her on it, Greene effectively admits that she never read it.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marjo...b0c1b89645039a

Skeptic Ginger 23rd April 2021 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13460770)
...
I won't accuse dudalb of being racist or anything, but when it's Waters on one side, and the Jewish Orbital Laser conspiracy theory woman on the other...this isn't a "both sides" issue.

:sdl:

Skeptic Ginger 23rd April 2021 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13461107)
I still want to know what non confrontational protests are. Holding a sign up inside your own house maybe?

You don't think there is a continuum between protest and rioting?

Stacyhs 23rd April 2021 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 13462854)
After attacking the Green Deal for years and demanding AOC debate her on it, Greene effectively admits that she never read it.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marjo...b0c1b89645039a

MTG, Rick Perry, Louis Gohmert, Matt Gaetz, Lauren Boebert are all good reasons for why I want the side of the debate that argues in favor of "Voters should have a minimum IQ higher than a box of rocks to vote".

The Don 24th April 2021 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13462923)
MTG, Rick Perry, Louis Gohmert, Matt Gaetz, Lauren Boebert are all good reasons for why I want the side of the debate that argues in favor of "Voters should have a minimum IQ higher than a box of rocks to vote".

Except those same arguments were used to suppress the black voters during Jim Crow.

newyorkguy 24th April 2021 05:54 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Greene apparently confronted Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on the floor of the House Wednesday. Someone took a photo and Greene used it in a Tweet [see below]. AOC has not responded -- its not clear Greene was actually challenging her to a debate in the photo -- and Thursday Greene went on the attack. In a Tweet Greene ranted that if AOC won't debate Greene it proves she (AOC) is 'a scared and stupid little girl.' Greene also said she had finally read the 14-page Green New Deal House resolution introduced by Ocasio-Cortez in 2019 and Tweeted it is a "communists[sic] manifesto." (Even some conservative news sources observed, the phrase Greene was looking for is "communist manifesto," it's not plural.)

Some observers have said, not entirely joking, Greene behaves more like someone from the world of professional wrestling than a member of Congress.

Huffington Post speclated on Greene's real motives.
Quote:

Greene wants her proposed debate to be aired on pay-per-view TV and to split the profits. Critics view her debate request as a way for Greene to fundraise, get media attention and ride on the coattails of Ocasio-Cortez’s popularity. Huff link

newyorkguy 24th April 2021 06:59 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Below is a link to Greene's 47-second Tweet in which she accuses Ocasio-Cortez of being a scared stupid little girl, "exactly what she is."

Greene Tweet

bruto 24th April 2021 07:34 AM

Nice bit of right-wingery there. Before she read it it was, presumably, too big, its bigness and complexity its fault. Now, having read it, it's "little," its smallness and lack of complexity its fault.

Belz... 24th April 2021 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorkguy (Post 13463074)
Some observers have said, not entirely joking, Greene behaves more like someone from the world of professional wrestling than a member of Congress.

Not only is it no joke, it's exactly what people like her and Gaetz operate, by design. It's self-promotion.

dudalb 24th April 2021 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13463162)
Not only is it no joke, it's exactly what people like her and Gaetz operate, by design. It's self-promotion.

It's all about creating a brand, not about doing the hard work of legislating.
I blame Newt Gingrich. he is the one who started this .

mgidm86 24th April 2021 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorkguy (Post 13463074)
Greene apparently confronted Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on the floor of the House Wednesday. Someone took a photo and Greene used it in a Tweet [see below]. AOC has not responded -- its not clear Greene was actually challenging her to a debate in the photo -- and Thursday Greene went on the attack. In a Tweet Greene ranted that if AOC won't debate Greene it proves she (AOC) is 'a scared and stupid little girl.' Greene also said she had finally read the 14-page Green New Deal House resolution introduced by Ocasio-Cortez in 2019 and Tweeted it is a "communists[sic] manifesto." (Even some conservative news sources observed, the phrase Greene was looking for is "communist manifesto," it's not plural.)

Some observers have said, not entirely joking, Greene behaves more like someone from the world of professional wrestling than a member of Congress.

Huffington Post speclated on Greene's real motives.


I said it before, it's the 'roids from all that crosstraining crap she does. Either that or she's a man in disguise. Looks like one to me. Sorry if it offends anyone here but I can't stand looking at her. She creeps me out.

Stacyhs 24th April 2021 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
MTG, Rick Perry, Louis Gohmert, Matt Gaetz, Lauren Boebert are all good reasons for why I want the side of the debate that argues in favor of "Voters should have a minimum IQ higher than a box of rocks to vote".
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13462972)
Except those same arguments were used to suppress the black voters during Jim Crow.

Have trouble recognizing snarky sarcasm, do ya?

smartcooky 24th April 2021 01:51 PM

I hope AOC does accept.

Occasio-Cortez comes prepared - armed with facts, figures, and a deep technical understanding of the ecology and the economics of the Green New Deal... MTG on the other hand took four days to read a 14-page document.

AOC will utterly demolish and humiliate Taylor-Greene... she will tear the "Jewish Space Lasers" idiot to shreds. MTG's only chance of coping will be to shout everything down and play pigeon chess. To that end, AOC will have to insist on some rules, for example a moderator who can turn off the debater's microphones if they won't shut up.

It reminds me somewhat of one of Dara O Briain's famous quips - AOC is the Professor of Dentistry, and MTG is the eejit who removes teeth with a string and a door.

Lithrael 24th April 2021 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 (Post 13463328)
I said it before, it's the 'roids from all that crosstraining crap she does. Either that or she's a man in disguise. Looks like one to me. Sorry if it offends anyone here but I can't stand looking at her. She creeps me out.

If someone is wrong and ugly too, I don’t see what skin it is off anyone’s nose to just say they are wrong and keep the other part to themselves.

They’re not wrong because they’re ugly or ugly because they’re wrong. Why, it’s almost like their looks are completely irrelevant.

Stacyhs 24th April 2021 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 13463353)
I hope AOC does accept.

Occasio-Cortez comes prepared - armed with facts, figures, and a deep technical understanding of the ecology and the economics of the Green New Deal... MTG on the other hand took four days to read a 14-page document.

AOC will utterly demolish and humiliate Taylor-Greene... she will tear the "Jewish Space Lasers" idiot to shreds. MTG's only chance of coping will be to shout everything down and play pigeon chess. To that end, AOC will have to insist on some rules, for example a moderator who can turn off the debater's microphones if they won't shut up.

It reminds me somewhat of one of Dara O Briain's famous quips - AOC is the Professor of Dentistry, and MTG is the eejit who removes teeth with a string and a door baseball bat .

Fixed that for you.


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