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-   -   Weapons, poll (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357725)

JoeMorgue 4th May 2022 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798291)
If they see that the conquest will cost them too much in loss of life on the Russian side they will use the atomic bomb as the Americans did in Japan

"We can't murder you all fast enough so we'll just nuke you."

Foster Zygote 4th May 2022 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798291)
If they see that the conquest will cost them too much in loss of life on the Russian side they will use the atomic bomb as the Americans did in Japan

Which would be the least stupid thing they could ever do, because everyone knows that only non-Russians would die if they did that.

Gaetan 4th May 2022 01:45 PM

There is a lot of people working for the cia on this forum who are for the war in Ukraine as i see. Right now the most who profit from that is the anglo saxon community in the world.

trustbutverify 4th May 2022 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798078)
The leaders of NATO tell to Putin, if you kill us, we will kill you, what a stupid answer!

How dare the free world defend themselves against your hero. The gall.

trustbutverify 4th May 2022 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798291)
If they see that the conquest will cost them too much in loss of life on the Russian side they will use the atomic bomb as the Americans did in Japan

So you believe the Japanese are responsible for getting nuked. Good to know.

Foster Zygote 4th May 2022 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trustbutverify (Post 13798315)
So you believe the Japanese are responsible for getting nuked. Good to know.

It's like he doesn't know that the Japanese didn't have nukes.

Foster Zygote 4th May 2022 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798306)
There is a lot of people working for the cia on this forum who are for the war in Ukraine as i see. Right now the most who profit from that is the anglo saxon community in the world.

Sorry, but the CIA has no clue you even exist, and they couldn't care less.

Craig4 4th May 2022 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798078)
The leaders of NATO tell to Putin, if you kill us, we will kill you, what a stupid answer!


NATO isn't telling Russia they will kill Putin. NATO is giving weapons to Ukraine and actually killing Russians.

Crossbow 4th May 2022 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798282)
joe biden will be in a bunker 600 feet under earth when you'll die of an atome bomb. You should worry about what is is doing.

You are very incorrect.

arthwollipot 4th May 2022 06:55 PM

Fortunately, not a single other person on this forum is dumb enough to be taken in by Russian propaganda. All of Gaetan's posts are achieving nothing to convince anyone. Gaetan is the most ineffective propagandist in history.

eerok 4th May 2022 07:35 PM

deleted - not worth it

Gaetan 4th May 2022 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthwollipot (Post 13798536)
Fortunately, not a single other person on this forum is dumb enough to be taken in by Russian propaganda. All of Gaetan's posts are achieving nothing to convince anyone. Gaetan is the most ineffective propagandist in history.

You used the atome bombs against Japan to save the live of american soldiers Putin could do the same to save the life of his soldiers. The NATO leaders and Zelinski are playing a dangerous game.

arthwollipot 4th May 2022 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798608)
You used the atome bombs against Japan to save the live of american soldiers Putin could do the same to save the life of his soldiers. The NATO leaders and Zelinski are playing a dangerous game.

Who used the atom bomb? Not me, mate.

bruto 4th May 2022 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798608)
You used the atome bombs against Japan to save the live of american soldiers Putin could do the same to save the life of his soldiers. The NATO leaders and Zelinski are playing a dangerous game.

If Putin wanted to save the lives of his soldiers all he had to do was not invade Ukraine. Not a single Russian soldier died in this war who was not invading Ukraine. You don't save lives by starting a war.

Craig4 4th May 2022 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798608)
You used the atome bombs against Japan to save the live of american soldiers Putin could do the same to save the life of his soldiers. The NATO leaders and Zelinski are playing a dangerous game.

Yeah, and Zelinski and NATO are better at playing that game than Putin. Putin should learn his place and know when he's outmatched.

Gaetan 5th May 2022 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthwollipot (Post 13798617)
Who used the atom bomb? Not me, mate.

Your government is you

arthwollipot 5th May 2022 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798635)
Your government is you

My government is Australian, mate.

Gaetan 5th May 2022 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthwollipot (Post 13798639)
My government is Australian, mate.

But you approved the use of the atome bombs against Japan, you were in war against them, don't you? Then why Putin couldn't do what you did?

wollery 5th May 2022 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798608)
You used the atome bombs against Japan to save the live of american soldiers Putin could do the same to save the life of his soldiers. The NATO leaders and Zelinski are playing a dangerous game.

If Putin wants to save Russian lives then using an atom bomb is an appallingly bad way of doing it.

I mean, seriously, what do you think would happen to Russia if they nuked Ukraine?

dann 5th May 2022 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798608)
You used the atome bombs against Japan to save the live of american soldiers Putin could do the same to save the life of his soldiers.


You don't seem to get this: Soldiers are a tool of war. Generals and other military leaders use them to fight whoever happens to be the current enemy, and they are only concerned about the lives of those soldiers to the extent that dead soldiers can no longer fight. Cannon fodder. Calculating with the loss of (some of) those soldiers' lives is part of strategic calculations. There is no reason to assume that the calculations of Putin and his generals are any different.

Nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan to make the country surrender unconditionally in WW2, not to save the lives of American soldiers. If it would have been cheaper, faster and more efficient to let a couple of 100,000 more soldiers die in an invasion of the Japanese mainland, I seriously doubt that it would not have been the preferred solution.

There is no reason to assume that Putin and his generals worry more about the lives of soldiers than the politicians and generals of WW2. They could have spared the (civilian and military) lives already lost by the invasion of Ukraine by not invading.

arthwollipot 5th May 2022 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798647)
But you approved the use of the atome bombs against Japan, you were in war against them, don't you? Then why Putin couldn't do what you did?

Again, I didn't approve a damn thing. I wasn't even born.

Secondly, what America did to end the war was very, very bad. It was just deemed to be less bad than the alternative.

Thirdly, the nukes that Putin has access to are many, many times more destructive than the atom bombs dropped on Japan. Do you understand the difference between a fission bomb, which is what was dropped on Japan, and a fusion bomb, which is what Putin has? Putin wouldn't be doing what "we" did. What Putin would be doing would be much, much worse than what "we" did, which as I said was very, very bad.

Crossbow 5th May 2022 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798647)
But you approved the use of the atome bombs against Japan, you were in war against them, don't you? Then why Putin couldn't do what you did?

I think that I know how to settle this issue without pointing out your obvious errors.

If Putin drops nuclear bombs on the USA (as you have said he will), at anytime during the year 2022, then I will pay you {Gaetan} $1000.00 [USD].

Conversely, if Putin does not drop any nuclear bombs on the USA (as I, and several others, have been saying) during the year 2022, then you pay me {Crossbow} $1.00 [USD].

Do we have a bet?

Foster Zygote 5th May 2022 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798608)
You used the atome bombs against Japan to save the live of american soldiers Putin could do the same to save the life of his soldiers. The NATO leaders and Zelinski are playing a dangerous game.

Sorry, but your analogy betrays an ignorance of both history and logic.

In 1945, only the United States had nuclear weapons. The U.S. could use its two nuclear weapons against Japan to force a surrender because there was no way for Japan to retaliate in any significant way.

Fast forward to 2022, and Russia is not the only nation in possession of nuclear weapons. If Putin decides to use nukes, it isn't going to save Russian lives - it's going to result in a massive increase, by orders of magnitude, in the number of dead Russians. Putin would have to be an incredibly stupid man to actually use nukes. We should all hope that the only reason he's mentioned them is because he's a bully who's used to getting whatever he wants, and he's humiliated by his losses in Ukraine and hopes he can still play alpha-male. If the cronies around Putin think there is any realistic chance that he'll actually order a nuclear strike of any kind, the best thing they could do, even strictly for their own self-interest, is put a bullet in his head.

Gaetan 5th May 2022 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote (Post 13798734)
Sorry, but your analogy betrays an ignorance of both history and logic.

You find logic to keep your weapons and say that people cannot use it? You voted for it.

JoeMorgue 5th May 2022 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798819)
You find logic to keep your weapons and say that people cannot use it? You voted for it.

Hey you learned how to spell and type again. Let's see how long it lasts this time.

Jack by the hedge 5th May 2022 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798078)
The leaders of NATO tell to Putin, if you kill us, we will kill you, what a stupid answer!

What response would be less stupid, then?

"If you kill us, we will <your answer here>"

What do you suggest governments should say they would do if Putin tries to kill them?

Foster Zygote 5th May 2022 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798819)
You find logic to keep your weapons and say that people cannot use it? You voted for it.

Stop evading the issues being raised with pathetic attempts to condemn others.

Do you understand any of the parts of my previous post that you chose to ignore?

Dave Rogers 5th May 2022 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge (Post 13798838)
What do you suggest governments should say they would do if Putin tries to kill them?

I'm guessing the answer is "Give him all their weapons and beg him to forgive them." Because that's so likely to stop him making the threat in the first place.

Dave

Gaetan 5th May 2022 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge (Post 13798838)
What response would be less stupid, then?

"If you kill us, we will <your answer here>"

What do you suggest governments should say they would do if Putin tries to kill them?

If Putin sends atome bombs to kill American citizens it is stupid to send atome bombs to kill Russian citizens

bruto 5th May 2022 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798877)
If Putin sends atome bombs to kill American citizens it is stupid to send atome bombs to kill Russian citizens

All such actions are stupid, but if that happens, the medal for first stupidity lands squarely on Putin. It would be stupid to tell him that we won't retaliate, knowing as we must by now that he is crazy.

JoeMorgue 5th May 2022 08:43 AM

To be fair (or maybe not "fair" but... something) neither "American used nukes in Japan therefore it's not allowed to help Ukraine (nor is anyone else because nobody is perfect)" nor "The best thing to do is to roll over for Papa Putin and show your belly" is as uncommon as people are pretending it is.

Neither of those are opinions I am hearing for the first time on this board.

Gaetan 5th May 2022 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13798886)
All such actions are stupid,

As you say that it is stupid to answer by killing Russian citizens, don't you think it would be logic to get rid of your weapons since it is stupid to use it then as you are not a threat for them they won't kill you at first.

sackett 5th May 2022 09:05 AM

As you are not a threat to them they will not kill you. At first.

Jack by the hedge 5th May 2022 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798877)
If Putin sends atome bombs to kill American citizens it is stupid to send atome bombs to kill Russian citizens

Do you think it is stupid to tell Putin not to sends atome bombs?

trustbutverify 5th May 2022 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798877)
If Putin sends atome bombs to kill American citizens it is stupid to send atome bombs to kill Russian citizens

Then you don't send nuclear weapons to Ukraine, US or anywhere else. Problem solved.

Foster Zygote 5th May 2022 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798900)
As you say that it is stupid to answer by killing Russian citizens, don't you think it would be logic to get rid of your weapons since it is stupid to use it then as you are not a threat for them they won't kill you at first.

Wow! You are really ignorant of history. Do you know what happened whenever the only people with guns showed up on the shores of - everywhere? Were the Congolese a threat to Leopold II and his Congo Free State officials?

If the rest of the world lays down their arms and sings Kumbaya, guys like Putin aren't going to come over and give them hugs and pass out little peace-sign flags - they're going to march in and say, "All this is mine now. Criticize me and you'll have an unfortunate, accidental fall from a five story window. Enjoy our cheap vodka while my cronies and I personally steal hundreds of billions from your economies".

JoeMorgue 5th May 2022 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798877)
If Putin sends atome bombs to kill American citizens it is stupid to send atome bombs to kill Russian citizens

Oh look you forgot how to spell again.

wollery 5th May 2022 09:30 AM

To summarize Gaetan's position as I understand it:

This is all the fault of absolutely everybody except Putin, and faced with the loss of a few thousand Russian soldiers it's perfectly reasonable and sensible for Putin to nuke just about everybody on the planet, but if anybody responds by nuking Russia they're criminal idiots.

If instead the US and its European allies all lay down their arms then Putin will recall all his soldiers from Ukraine and peace will be assured for all eternity.

Is that about the gist of it?

JoeMorgue 5th May 2022 09:31 AM

No. Gaeten's position is "Lookit how absurd of an opinion my internet persona can make up."

bruto 5th May 2022 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13798900)
As you say that it is stupid to answer by killing Russian citizens, don't you think it would be logic to get rid of your weapons since it is stupid to use it then as you are not a threat for them they won't kill you at first.

You mean it would be "logic" do to exactly what Ukraine did. They got rid of theirs in return for a pledge of protection. The result was that Putin and his dupes and whores allege they should be killed and their country destroyed. You and logic don't seem to get along very well.


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