Three Orthodox Jews and a Coptic Christian walk into a Levantine Bar
The three orthodox jews are Jared Kushner, Jason Greenblatt and David Friedman, the coptic christian is Dina Powell. They make up the team Trump assigned to the task of making the "ultimate deal" in the Palestine/Israel issue, and Kushner joked about that himself at the Haim Saban Forum a few days ago.
Now it's rumoured for a few days that Trump will announce to recognize Jerusalem as capital of Israel, which is against conventions the UN and the international community have established since the late 60s. Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel. This has been met with warnings and loud protests from almost every capital in the region (except Tel Aviv of course), with hothead Erdogan saying that such a decision would be "a catastrophe for all mankind" and all hell would break loose. Yesterday Trump had telephone calls with some regional leaders including Netanyahoo and Abbas, and today it is reported that Abbas said that he was told Trump will move the US embassy to Jerusalem and announce it this week. Which is by far not as extreme a measure as recognizing the city as capital. So this shall be a thread about the efforts of the Trump administration to solve the Israel/Palestine issue and the effects caused by them. |
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It's in the early stages, they so far have "listened". Read the linked article. |
I read it. It's typical Trump talk (via Jared, this time) on any issue. "I have the best plan, but I can't tell you anything about it but believe me it is the best plan ever and I will get it done because I am the best negotiator in the history of the planet."
As I said there's nothing there yet. |
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If you read my OP as well you might have guessed why I thought it would be a good time to start the thread now. It could be dominating the news as soon as tomorrow. The calm before the storm. |
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Don't worry, it won't be dominating the news for at least a few days. There's a female entertainer being accused of sexual harassment, that's good for a few more days, even though I've never heard of her. |
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My guess is that some Fundamentalist nutjob in the administration has suggested that they should just rebuild Solomon's Temple so that Jesus will come back and solve everything...
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Trump risks backlash as he prepares to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital
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So it is the capital city in all but name. |
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Last time I checked, you didn't get people on your side by pissing them off first.
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But it doesn't really explain Japan. We interfered in their empire building and slapped them with punishing sanctions. We nuked them--twice!--invaded and occupied, imposed martial law... And somehow this all transformed them into one of America's closest allies. |
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Yes, the Israelis have housed the Knesset and most of the ministries in Jerusalem; but who could stop them? That is quite another matter than that other states recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. And the USA moving their embassy to Jerusalem comes very, very close to a formal recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. (of course, to put a fine line on it, the capital is not necessarily the government's seat). Walking roughshod over the Jerusalem question, as well as, in case of the UN resolution, the settlements question, makes that Trump has pissed off the Palestinians in two of the three stumbling blocks (the third being the right of return) in previous peace talks. |
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Why is it even up to Trump to have a preference? Isn't that an Israeli issue?
ETA: I know it's sensitive. I'm not a fan of Israeli overreach. But IMO the Palestinians are not very far along in the process of forming a state. They are fixated on injustices of which there have been many, but it doesn't seem to help them get their act together politically. Israeli Jews knew how to go about forming a nation. I don't think Arabs in the area had much experience of that. |
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http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...820-story.html And we can forget about closing the settlements those are here to stay forever, to large a percentage of the Israeli population lives in them. So we can finally accept that this two state solution is never going to happen and it is political fiction. As I see it the only solutions are ethnic cleansing or formal apartheid. |
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It seems to all boil down to "were are friends, because we are all enemies of Iran, so surely we shall cut a deal". They won't. |
If this whole affair goes bad, how long will it be before Trump denies involvement and blames it all on Jared?
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A collection of statements: World unites to condemn Trump over Jerusalem/Al-Quds scandal
Trump statement expected for 1 pm EST today. |
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Another intifada would provide a welcome distraction for Netenyahu and Trump in difiicult times for them both. Just saying. |
Let's not forget that Trump is going to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. That is, the whole of Jerusalem, not "West Jerusalem". The eastern half of Jerusalem is occupied territory. Israel has annexed it as Israeli territory, but that's not recognized by anyone in the world. Moreover, since 1967 Israel has been expanding the city limits of Jerusalem. Israel has been building Jewish settlements (i.e., settlements for Jewish Israelis) in East Jerusalem, and they've been pulling all kind of tricks on the inhabitants of East Jerusalem to drive them out. These are all so-called "facts on the ground" that Israel creates in order to let the Palestinians have even less than the 22% of former Mandate Palestine that the West Bank and Gaza constitute.
When Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital, he de facto also recognizes the annexation of East Jerusalem and endorses these policies. |
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I heard today on the radio that apparently, Congress had already passed a law that the USA should move its embassy to Jerusalem, during the Clinton years. However, the law had a loophole, and Clinton, Bush the Lesser and Obama all dutifully signed a waiver each six month to postpone implementing the law. The only upside to this, as I can see it, is that never again any Arab nation or the Palestinians will view the USA as a honest peace broker. Of course, it never was. |
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But maybe that's an oversimplification. The US goes through a rolling regime change on a 4-8 year cycle. Each previous president has declined to recognize Jerusalem, and waived the legislature's requirement to put the embassy there. Each President has taken their own approach to brokering peace. I think that it's more reasonable and accurate to say that each successive US president may or may not be seen as an honest peace broker, depending on how they act towards the peace process. It's not really correct to refer to the US as a whole in this context, as if it were a monolithic entity with a consistent long-term executive branch policy. Things vary greatly from president to president. I know it's fashionable to blame Trump for everything, and prophesy the direst possible consequences for every little thing he does. But it's probably not correct to say that because of this, other stakeholders will never see the US as an honest broker in the peace process. I think that the leaders in the region probably understand that each president must be dealt with on his own terms. |
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He did it. He unilaterally recognized Jerusalem as capital of Israel and announced to build a ("magnificent") US embassy there. :nope:
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The new
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If construction costs get too high, Trump could do what he has often done in the past. Don't pay the sub contractors. |
At least he explicitly mentioned the fact that there is a border dispute down the middle of Jerusalem and said the decision to recognize Jerusalem does not imply any position on how that dispute is to be resoved - i.e. he accepts the status quo that East Jerusalem is Palestinian.
Still wishy-washy and short on detail about future peace, except that Saudi Arabia looms large. |
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